Fallen: The inside story of the secret trial and conviction of Cardinal George Pell

by Lucie Morris-Marr

'Gripping and insightful' - Chrissie Foster, AM

There was an eerie silence in the packed courtroom as everyone looked towards the foreman of the jury. 'Guilty' he pronounced five times.

The third most senior Catholic cleric in the world had been found guilty of sex crimes against children, bringing shame to the Church on a scale never seen before in its history.

Investigative journalist Lucie Morris-Marr was the first to break the story that Cardinal George Pell was being investigated by the police. In this riveting dispatch, she recounts how the cleric was trailed by a cloud of scandal as he rose to the most senior ranks of the church in Australia, all the way to his appointment by Pope Francis to the position of treasurer in the Vatican.

Despite anger and accusations, it seemed nothing could stop George Pell. Yet in 2017 he was charged by detectives, returning to Australia to face trial.

Take a front row seat in court with the author as she reveals the many intriguing developments in the secret legal proceedings which the media could not report at the time. Fallen reveals the full story of the brutal battle waged by the prince of the church as he fought to clear his name, including a ferocious bid to be freed from jail. The author also shares her own compelling personal journey investigating the biggest story of her career and the frequent attacks she endured from powerful Pell supporters. This book also charts how Pell's shocking conviction plunged the Vatican into an unprecedented global crisis after decades of clergy abuse cases.

It is a vitally important story that will fascinate anyone interested in the failure of the Catholic Church to address the canker in its heart.

Genres: Nonfiction, Crime, Politics, Australia, True Crime, Religion

354 pages, Kindle Edition

Published September 17, 2019

Reviews

[Avril · Rating 4 out of 5]

A little over two years ago I read journalist Louise Milligan’s book Cardinal, about George Pell. When I ended that book I had been convinced that Pell had a case to answer, but I wasn’t sure that case would ever go to trial. But it did. Not ‘the Swimming Pool case’ but ‘the Cathedral case’ which, from reading Milligan’s book, I thought would be less likely to be brought to trial. This book documents that trial in forensic detail.

I am still left with questions. How much of what happened to Morris-Marr at the Herald-Sun was the result of attempts to protect Pell? How much was Andrew Bolt involved in those attempts? Did Rupert Murdoch intervene personally, or did his culture warriors protect Pell off their own bat? But that’s less important than the questions the book does answer, the most important of which is whether Pell got a fair trial. As far as I can tell from this book, yes, he did.

This is a devastating story, and one that I still find hard to believe. Pell was such huge figure in Melbourne during my early adulthood, when I was working out my own sexuality, and he was so hateful towards LGBTIQ people, that it still feels unreal, scripted, ‘Hollywood’, that he could be himself guilty of child abuse. And yet, after that fair trial, he has been found to be so. There’s no satisfaction in that for me; I continue to be devastated that such things happened in any church and I take no pleasure in Pell’s fall.

This book makes it even harder to understand why people like Andrew Bolt and Miranda Devine and Greg Craven and even Frank Brennan (the one who disappoints me most) are responding to Pell’s conviction as just another episode in Australia’s culture wars. I am the last person to say our legal system is perfect. But a jury of his peers found Pell guilty after a trial in which he was represented by the best lawyers money could buy. How, after that, can these people argue that his conviction is unsafe?

In the end, I’m just grateful that Morris-Marr was able to stick with the story, bear witness to the trial, and write it up for the rest of us. We, especially we Melbourne Christians of whatever denomination, need to know what happened in our city.

[Karen]

FALLEN by Lucie Morris-Marr has the sub-heading "The inside story of the secret trial and conviction of Cardinal George Pell". I freely admit to being interested in what happened with the mistrial, the trial that found Pell guilty of five counts of child abuse, the sentencing hearing, the appeal, and what will happen now that his legal team have sought leave to appeal to the High Court, so it was that sub-heading that made me want to read this book. I'm acutely aware that these events, this trial, and the history of the church have massive ramifications, equally I'm aware of comments from some survivors who have questioned Morris-Marr's tactics and intentions.

With all of that in mind, there were some aspects of FALLEN that provided insight, and there were elements that disappointed. Having read CARDINAL by Louise Milligan way back before Pell's charging, I can't help but reflect that, to this reader, that was a book that covered the lead up to charges and the survivors and their stories with compassion and respect. Something that felt like it sometimes went missing in FALLEN. Why it was felt necessary to open with the story of a blatant pursuit of a survivor's story, in the face of what was obviously great reluctance on her part, I've no idea. Even if her story has been part of what's blown the lid off the full extent of crimes and cover-ups, surely, door-stopping her was bad enough. But retelling that encounter in this book felt wrong, manipulative and intrusive, even if it had been intended to show the tactics of Morris-Marr's then employer. Undoubtedly, the author's treatment by the Herald Sun and her coming up against the power of the cardinal-apologist Bolt would have been infuriating and frightening, but it didn't need the potentially identifying outing of the survivor's story all over again. 

FALLEN, unlike the many other books I've read that address the ongoing scandal of clerical sexual abuse, left me conflicted. Perhaps it comes back, always to that sub-heading. Maybe if it hadn't started out talking about a woman who clearly did not wish to be outed as a survivor, then it could have come across as slightly less self-serving in places. The inside story of the secret trial and conviction were the most illuminating aspects of the book, and whilst you cannot deny that the steps taken by the church and its apologists to cover up, obfuscate, or make a headline from the personal pain of so many were breathtaking in the brazenness and their viciousness, maybe it's a question of timing or telegraphing your intent. Those stories undoubtedly have some place in a retelling, but here, it ended up feeling intrusive and wrongly skewed. 

Having said that, when Morris-Marr sticks to the events in the courtroom she provides some insight into the machinations of the trial, the conduct of the Trial Judge, and the difficulties that the juries obviously experienced in both trials. I must admit I don't share her dismay at not being able to view a transcript of the testimony of the key witness, just as I don't believe the ridiculous viewpoints of "commentators" from outside the system who seem to have in-depth knowledge of testimony that only the court and the jury were privy to. FALLEN does remind us, however, of the importance of the jury system, and the vital part that the courts, and the laws of evidence and procedure play. She provides glimpses into the demeanour of Pell himself, and that of his supporters. She also provides some insight into the ramifications of the charges and trial in the heart of the Vatican itself, and the affect that the trial had on the entire journalist group covering it. 

https://www.austcrimefiction.org/revi...

[Kathryn Barton · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fallen by Lucie Morris-Marr is an extraordinary work that fills the massive gaps left by the court’s decision to impose a media blackout on the ‘trial of the millennia’, the conviction and sentencing of Vatican money man, Cardinal George Pell, for heinous crimes against two children.

Lucie was the first journalist, worldwide, to break the story that Cardinal George Pell was being investigated by Victoria police over alleged sexual abuse of minors. Sadly, there were other accusers lining up to have their day in court with Pell, but not all met the standards required. For the first time, Fallen outlines these accusations in all their shocking glory. But, as everyone knows, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Particularly where the Catholic Church is concerned.

Lucie’s book is not just a riveting read; it is a powerful record of Australia’s late coming-of-age where this country finally - through the excruciatingly fair Justice Peter Kidd - grew a pair and stood up to the insidious worship of criminal priests within a criminal organisation. Clericalism, as Lucie describes, is a complex process of lifelong gaslighting by predator priests to control the faithful. The joy these filthy priests must have felt knowing that hundreds, thousands of brainwashed parishioners were gladly offering up their children to ‘superior beings’ for extra-special treatment! And the parents’ misplaced pride in all this extra attention ...

The clarity of Lucie’s descriptions of the trial give the reader an incredible fly-on-the-wall experience. She leaves no stone unturned in delivering her very human take on the toll suffered by so many involved in the trials of Pell. I’m really proud that Lucie has excruciatingly described the affects of everyone’s experiences on dedicated journalists. People who never give journos a thought, other than to tout Reader’s Digest stats showing the profession slightly more trusted than used car salesmen, might change their view when they actually understand what it costs to bring the big news to their eyes and ears. The bravery of this intrepid reporter knows no bounds.

As a slice of history, I can not recommend Fallen highly enough. As a deeply personal book that examines suffering on all its levels; Fallen is peerless.

[Tony Cinque · Rating 2 out of 5]

I was determined to still read this book even though it was evident it would be written with a strong bias and in an accusative style totally against Pell and the Church. I read it because I mistakenly believed it would reveal some previously unknown facts and events relating to the whole sordid affair.

Unfortunately, I was disappointed as it was written poorly and simply too one sided. It’s laughable that the author criticises the cardinal for having defence counsel and for being able to produce his passport to show he was overseas when accused of being somewhere in Ballarat, just to name a couple of things. Bizarre.

And then the author continues with an interposed lop-sided narrative about how significant her efforts were and her belief that “reporters are the soldiers sent into war”, which would explain her self justification of printing headlines despite lacking veracity.

These are but a few examples of the author’s tabloid style of reporting and writing.

I think this tabloid journalist-cum-writer would have benefited from the services of a better editor, perhaps someone at arms length who’ll tell her candidly what she should know in order to write an “investigative book” rather than telling her what she would want to hear.

Anyhow, I wonder if she’ll write a follow up on how Pell was acquitted unanimously by the High Court of Australia 7-0? Acquitted by the High Court on all five sexual offences for which he was wrongly and preposterously convicted. A High Court that deals only in facts and law.

[Nancy · Rating 2 out of 5]

Finished: 10.11.2020
Genre: non-fiction
Rating: C-
#AusReadingMonth2020
Conclusion:

I wrote a review of this book
comparing it to another book
that was also written about the Rise and Fall
of Cardinal George Pell.
Interesting insights!

My Thoughts

[Tom J · Rating 1 out of 5]

I don't usually write reviews, because by the time that I've finished a book and remembered to update goodreads it's left my head enough that I either leave it alone or feel like I wouldn't do it justice. With this book however, I felt compelled to leave a review.

When Fallen deigns to actually follow the trial and provide background to the proceedings, it's sharp, well written, and well researched. The trial flows simply and quickly, and it's easy to follow and doesn't drag. If this was the entirety of the book, it would be an easy five stars, and also probably half the length of the actual book.

The rest is almost unreadably self obsessed. The author constantly speaks about journalism as though it's the highest calling a human can do, and repeatedly refers to herself as "having survived the trial" in the same tone as she does the people who have survived literal abuse. At no point does she show a second of self-reflection or self-awareness, and it's perfectly encapsulated in the first chapter where she does an excellent job of telling on herself:

The author goes to an abuse victims house, and asks if she can use the victim's story. She blithely mentions how difficult this can be (for her, not for the victim). The victim asks her not to use her story, or her name, or anything. Just keep her out of the entire thing, as it shaped and changed her life and she would like to have even an ounce of agency over her own story. This would seem to be a fairly clear indication that you should leave the story out, right? Wrong! The author decides that the adult that she spoke to is now irrelevant, and as she drives off she decides to "do it for the victim, not the woman she had just met but the young girl that she was". How incredibly convenient.

The author is also an inveterate snitch. Twice, she encounters people who have broken the law, one who did graffiti (which she moralises about to an absurd extent) and another who has used her reporting when the suppression order is still active (actually a dick move). In both cases they remedy things as soon as possible and apologise, and in both instances she immediately turns them in to the police. It's genuinely unbelievable that someone would include this in their own book without considering how bad it makes them look, which makes me wonder whether this book actually had an editor, or whether the editor absolutely despised the author.

Finally, the book itself serves as a damning indictment of modern journalism. Journalists are painted as brave soldiers in the fight for truth, while each individually being self-serving narcissists. The journalists call themselves the "Pell Pack", a fairly chummy name for a group attending a sexual abuse trial, and if you're wondering why journalists are one of the least trusted professions these days just take a look at the insane ethical contortions that they go through to try and make themselves an in group. Journalism might not be an easy job, but the constant comparisons to the abuse survivors is genuinely offensive.

Don't read this book. The trial coverage is fantastic, but at what cost? The weight of the unnecessary, self incriminating diarism that litters the actual substance of the book sinks it completely.

[Ali · Rating 3 out of 5]

I read this book before the High Court overturned the conviction the book documents, but am writing the review after the HC decision, which is a little odd. As I write this review, some media commentators are accusing the ABC of colluding with the police in a campaign against Pell, so it is worth pointing out for starters that this book is a strong demonstration that most - if not all - of the journalists covering Pell's trial on child abuse cases - have remained convinced of his guilt, even without having witnessed the testimony of the key witness.
Morris-Marr is a tabloid journalist, and this book is written in the shock-and-awe, with folksy asides - style of that kind of publication. This is not necessarily a bad thing, and many will find this more accessible than the more clinical and detailed style of Louise Middleton's Cardinal.
(While in Australia, tabloids are synonmous with the conservatives, this is not always true globally, and Morris-Marr cut her teeth at the Daily Mirror, an English newspaper that tends to lean left. She palpable confusion and shock at how quickly and seamlessly the Herald Sun shafted her when the editorial line settled into pro-Pell just days after publishing her scoop on the police investigation into him is indicative of the differences.)
In the end, this is a good read covering the salient facts, and giving a sense for the dynamics of the trial. It certainly helps to explain the issues in contention in the High Court appeal - effectively the argument that the prosecution didn't counter effectively the defence presentation that the circumstances made the offence not reasonably possible. I would recommend reading this alongside Cardinal, while the books have different styles, the crossover in coverage is minimal (you could skim the first third of this book if you had read Cardinal), and together they present a thorough picture.
For me, at the heart of the dilemma in the Pell case is how impossible we find it to effectively prosecute interpersonal violence and abuse within our current system. The burden of proof is reliant upon circumstances that simply don't often occur in IPV and child abuse cases. In the case of Pell, there is a swirl of allegations over years, none of which reach the standard needed individually, and the circumstances in which cases can be taken as a pattern is very restricted. The penalties placed upon victims as part of normal judicial process are horrendous. Trauma distorts recall in ways that make it difficult to establish a clear date and location from victim accounts, which then provides fodder for defence to prove that the story can't have happened exactly as alleged. Yet, interpersonal violence and abuse is an enormous portion of the crime in society, and frankly is the most destructive And whatever your view on the Pell case, the truth is that successful prosecution for abuse is rare comparative to the prevalence in society. If we can't use a justice system to enforce the law, what is the point of it?

[julia · Rating 5 out of 5]

Brilliant

Loved this. A rich tapestry of truth highlights Pell's vicious lies. Fairly graphic in parts, very readable, and unputdownable with a fast straightforward pa ce. Thank Goodness there are dedicated people who want to protect children - lots of lessons to be learnt by parents and professional s. A great read about a hidden world.

[Suresh · Rating 4 out of 5]

I read this book to gain greater depth about this trial that concluded in 2019. I learnt more about Pell's background prior to the trial, and the continued lack of interest in the Catholic institution to care for survivors or repair the hurts caused. I also learnt about the sacrifices made to cover and investigate cases like this, including the work of advocates, let alone the sacrifices and sufferings undergone by victim survivors. A melancholic book of faraway hope.

[Rosemary O'Grady · Rating 5 out of 5]

Lucie Morris-Marr's book is an exciting, sometimes breathtaking account of the way Pell's convictions were, eventually, obtained, and of how much of that determined committment to the rule of law and a fair trial meant detailed, extensive control exercised over 'media organizations' during the process.

[Michael Tyquin · Rating 1 out of 5]

Error-ridden and hardly objective.

[Mike · Rating 5 out of 5]

I read this book in three days, which, by my standards is very, very fast. That's because it is a gripping story, even though, like just about everybody in Australia, I knew the outcome.

This is a scorching condemnation of the Catholic Church hierarchy but also of contemporary Australia where vested interests seek to determine who and what is given publicity, which convicted criminals deserve empathy, and when the law should be respected or undermined.

The most striking aspects of the whole saga, captured well by Lucie Morris-Marr, are:
1. The way that powerful interests worked to initially suppress the news of the accusations against Pell, and then to discredit those involved, and finally and bizarrely to still sing the praises of the convicted paedophile. Pell was known for his right-wing social attitudes on a range of issues. I doubt the likes of Howard and Abbott would have been supportive of a priest such as Father Rod Bower (Gosford Anglican) if he had been convicted of the same offences.
2. That News Corporation is a vindictive, biased organisation only interested in stories that support its worldview (but you knew that already, didn’t you).
3. That the Catholic Church has a long, dark history of sexual abuse and of doing everything in its power to hide the abuse, putting its own reputation above the welfare of children.
Morris-Marr starts at almost the end - the day when the jury's verdicts on the four charges against Cardinal George Pell, are to be announced.

She then goes back three years to the start of her involvement in the story, when she was working as a freelance reporter for News Corporation. She finds out that there is police task force investigating accusations of sexual assault of minors by Pell, and then that Pell is to be charged with the offences. Initially News Corp are delighted to have such a scoop, and splash it on the front page of the Courier-Mail. However, things quickly turn sour when Pell's powerful connections, including Andrew Bolt, move to have the story squashed. Morris-Marr finds herself without a job and, by the sound of it, having a nervous breakdown.

However, she finds support from CNN and The New Daily, and is back on the trail of Pell. Despite a suppression order preventing publicity of the trials, she doggedly attends every day of the initial trial, which ended without a verdict, and the retrial. She takes us through Pell's life from young sporting hero, to seminarian, to his meteoric rise to become the third most powerful person in the Catholic Church. At one stage he was even spoken of as a possible Pope.

Her account of his time in Ballarat, where he shared a residence with notorious paedophile Gerard Ridsdale is most revealing. It seems inconceivable that Pell was unaware of the horrendous activities going on in the same building where he lived. One victim says that while she was being raped by Ridsdale, a man, most likely Pell, walked past the open doorway and did nothing to intervene. There are also accounts of Pell fondling boys at the swimming pool, and of being warned off by a man who witnessed him standing naked in front of small boys.

She also recounts his handling of historical clerical sexual abuse for the Church, establishing the so-called Melbourne Response. Many victims of abuse were deeply dissatisfied with, even traumatised, by the way in which they were treated by the Church under Pell's management.

But Pell was not on trial for turning a blind eye to abuse, nor for his alleged involvement with boys at a swimming pool. He was on trial for assaulting two choir boys in the priests' sacristy at Melbourne Cathedral. One of the boys committed suicide as an adult, before the assault came to trial. It is the evidence of the second boy, whose name has been closely guarded, which formed the main case against Pell. This evidence was presented only to the jury and no transcripts were released. There is thus an unavoidable gap in the story.

The picture of Pell presented here is of an ambitious, determined, conservative man with very powerful friends. The book also presents a picture of a legal system within which the wheels of justice grind slowly but relentlessly towards a resolution.
--

Pedant alert. The book was rushed out in the wake of the guilty verdict. Inevitably there are typos and other grammatical errors which hopefully will be fixed in later editions . e.g. “Tony Abbot”, “in other incidences”, “juggling an eggshell”, “the cardinal just put his dead down”, the quotation from Howard’s letter not put in quotation marks.

[Victor d'Hoop · Rating 3 out of 5]

I too bought this book because it promised "The inside Story".

The whole thing has left me with more questions than answers......
I am an Ex-Catholic who abandoned this particular faith in favor of Atheism and then one that is quite a lot less Ritualistic. I too experienced the ministrations of the Church in Victoria around 1967 and became seriously disillusioned !

My only reason for mentioning this is because I feel I can offer some insight into the scene that must have taken place in the sacristy of St. Patrick's Cathedral when Cardinal Pell happened upon this pair who had broken in, stolen a bottle of wine and were busy quaffing the contents thereof !

The Sacristy of a Church is truly the most sacred part of a Catholic Church. To desecrate it in a way as described by the charges would have taken an act of the Devil. I can in no way defend the many excesses of the Catholic Church, nor can I in any way condone abuse of anyone, but......

By the same token, there's no way an incident such as this can be appreciated by jurors who have no idea of the beliefs of practicing Catholics. What I find truly amazing is that there's no evidence of this having been taken into account by the court ?

So, my dilemma was....what evidence ( to prove guilt without a shadow of doubt) was presented at the court ? Lucie Morris-Marr presents a cauldron of vested interests for our consumption, but I must say I miss the presence of an old-fashioned Newspaper Editor and the presentation of some good old facts.

I suspect that, in the fullness of time we will learn that far from enacting Justice, the court has simply joined the race to the bottom.

I'm not at all convinced that we haven't witnessed a scapegoat being put through its paces.

[CHRIS WILDING · Rating 5 out of 5]

I’ve just finished reading Fallen. In a word - Fantastic! An excellent read and an important record of one of the biggest moments in the history of the Catholic Church - the trial of Cardinal George Pell. Lucie takes the reader on her five year torturous journey of investigation, beginning with a whisper about Sano taskforce investigating complaints of child abuse in Melbourne's St Patrick' Cathedral and flying to Rome to interview Cardinal Pell, and culminating in two secret trials (and subsequent appeal), the first ending in a hung jury. Ultimately, this is a book about power - the power of the church, the power of the police task force, the power of journalists, the power of political leaders, the power of the courts, the power of activists and finally and triumphantly, the power of survivors of abuse. Journalists like Lucie Morris-Marr have played an important role helping to expose rampant abuse within our churches. We all deserve to know the truth, the victims all deserve justice.

[Georgia · Rating 3 out of 5]

🌟🌟🌟 / 5

This is a hard one to review. My rating isn’t in relation to the story itself as I definitely think that needs to be told — and for that reason, I’m glad that I read this book. I think the author did a good job of explaining the trials and I did like the fact that I ended up with more insight into a trial that had been shrouded in secrecy because of the suppression orders.

The author did, however, indulge in a lot of self-insertion throughout the book. There were quite a lot of references throughout the book about the toll that reporting on this case had on the author. On some occasions, this was referenced in the same paragraphs as the victims, which felt a bit strange to read. I’ve read a lot of true crime books in the past and I’m used to this genre focusing purely on the story itself; which is why I think I found this a bit unusual.

[Lyn Nethercote · Rating 5 out of 5]

Before I read Fallen I felt angry and emotionally stuck because the suppression order over the trial had resulted in an overwhelming flood of information once it was lifted. I was in shock. Reading through the details of the whole story, wonderfully written as it is, I was able to let go of my rage against powerful institutions and instead found my compassion again, even for Pell. I thoroughly recommend it.

[bob hill · Rating 5 out of 5]

I found this book fascinating as the author traced the interesting and somewhat ambiguous life of George Pell without prejudice, but marking the occasions which may have suggested his sexual proclivities, through to the secret trial and re-trial and conviction. Lucie Morris-Marr's brilliant, journalistic style made for quick reading.

[Joolsmagools® · Rating 5 out of 5]

Children “R” heart of the Matter.

Community service announcement:

If you have a heart condition, do not, REPEAT, do not read “Fallen” without taking your medication.

George Pell, you’ve been warned.

👨‍👨‍👧 B4 ⛪️ Joolsmagools®

(“He being dead, yet speaketh”)

[Zahraa · Rating 5 out of 5]

A very difficult one to digest. But such excellent story telling. It is hard to accept that such criminals can fall through the cracks of our legal system but the reality is our legal system is not perfect. Far from it.

[Vikki Petraitis · Rating 5 out of 5]

An excellent insight into the Pell case

Lucie Morris-Marr takes the reader into the Pell case with such compassion for the victims. As a reader, you feel like you are sitting by her side in the courtroom for the series of hearings and trials that ultimately jailed a cardinal.

[Stuart Hodge · Rating 5 out of 5]

Comprehensive and fascinating account of the whole Pell trial, laced with insights on the pressure of reporting such a massive story

[Denise Babczyszyn · Rating 5 out of 5]

I highly recommended this compelling book. It is a book just cannot put down.
I was shocked to read how evil the Catholic Church is in Australia.
The truth needed to be told.
Lucie you a legend!

[Janine Moloney · Rating 4 out of 5]

Great read on a story that needs to be told and then great justice.

[Jocelyn · Rating 5 out of 5]

I devoured this book. It was very interesting, easy to read and detailed.

It also gives readers an insight into the world of media.

[Catherine Braiding · Rating 3 out of 5]

The book is good and necessary, and a mostly respectful account filled with kindness towards some of the victims of abuse (it opens with the author harassing someone who is not willing to speak about her experiences, which you need to bear in mind). It is more a memoir of the author‘s time covering the story about George Pell than an in-depth exploration of the evidence. She’s clearly a tabloid writer, and it shows.

My big disappointment is that it suffered from the rush to publish; there are many easy typos that should have been picked up in editing, which can be frustrating, though I admit I chuckled at one: “the cardinal just put his dead down, writing in his notebook.”

[RM · Rating 2 out of 5]

The author -- a tabloid journo -- manages to expertly turn her account of "the trial of the century" into one about herself and her "survival" of the Pell trials. That can't have been easy to do, so an extra star for effort.

[Philip Hunt · Rating 3 out of 5]

Unpleasant story, well written. Not only the story of the trial, but also the story of how the Powers That Be undermine our Right To Know.