Teagete. Sulla filosofia

by Plato

In aggiunta ai numerosi dialoghi di Platone già pubblicati nei Testi a fronte, una nuova collana di undici titoli con una nuova traduzione di Giovanni Reale. Undici dialoghi cosiddetti "socratici" in quest' Teagete, Ippia minore, Ippia maggiore, Ipparco, Amanti, Carmide, Lachete, Liside, Eutidemo, Alcibiade primo, Alcibiade secondo. Spesso trascurati dal grande pubblico, perché perlopiù aporetici, e apparentemente non conclusivi sul problema trattato, sono stati studiati da specialisti, peraltro condizionati, a partire dall'Ottocento, da pregiudizi ermeneutici, che hanno talvolta deposto a favore dell'affermazione della loro povertà teoretica e della negazione della loro autenticità. Giovanni Reale ha capovolto tali convinzioni e dimostrato come, sulla base delle nuove scoperte dell'ermeneutica, della tecnologia della comunicazione nel mondo antico e delle nuove interpretazioni dell'ironia socratica, tali dialoghi si rivelino tra gli scritti più freschi e innovativi di Platone. Platone ha compreso, come nessun altro filosofo, la portata rivoluzionaria della domanda di Socrate sul "che cos'è" e il metodo dialettico-confutatorio con cui dalla domanda si dipana la trattazione. Questo nuovo approccio ha comportato un mutamento radicale del modo tradizionale di "pensare per immagini e per miti" traghettandolo nel nuovo modo di "pensare per concetti", che si imponeva come una necessità storica.

Genres: Philosophy, Nonfiction, Classics

190 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1989

About the author

Plato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."

Reviews

[L · Rating 3 out of 5]

In this short work Socrates is in dialogue with Demodocus and his son, Theages, on the topic of education. The primary reason I read this work was due to it being the first in the tetralogy including Theages, Charminides, Laches and Lysis - accounted by Diogenes Laertius. There is a significant amount of speculation regarding whether this work was written by Plato, though it will become apparent very early in that this is merely pseudo-Plato. The structure of the work is much more straight forward when compared to Plato's works and rather barebones, with Socrates being rather explicit in his purpose questioning Theages' education.

Regardless of this, the work is enjoyable despite its meagre size. The first few pages provide something close to a Glaucon's greatest hits in which Theages simply responds with "Yes" almost repeatedly. Though this drawn-out method allows Socrates to manipulate what Theages believed he wanted, and instead of Theages desiring wisdom and charisma, he now desires to be a tyrant.

Though towards the end of the work, the pseudo-Plato aspects become exaggerated. With mention of how Socrates has a divine instinct in order to aid those nearby and another power to improve the oratory skill of those nearby. This of course is ridiculous, making the loveable and self-acclaimed ignorant Socrates into something of a saint. It is also evident that oratory skills would certainly develop when around someone like Socrates, who is nothing less than an expert at the art.

Despite these issues, the work can easily be enjoyed when someone takes the mindset that this work is not infact written by Plato.

[Truls Ljungström · Rating 3 out of 5]

En kort beskrivning av Sokrates samtal med en potentiell elev som han vill undgå att undervisa. Thaeges (eleven) vill ha makt och vishet att bruka makten väl; Sokrates försöker få honom att söka sig till de som utövar sådan makt, eftersom bara de som har fronesis faktiskt kan förklara den.

I termer av användbarhet så saknas denna. Men det är inte en otrevlig historia.

[Cosimo Campani · Rating 4 out of 5]

Il Teagete è considerato un “dialogo socratico”, cioè è incentrato maggiormente sulla figura di Socrate che sul pensiero di Platone, infatti questo gruppo di dialoghi corrispondono ai dialoghi giovanili. In effetti il pensiero di Platone non si era ancora definito perciò coloro che leggono questo breve testo aspettandosi molto Platone sbagliano.

Il fine del dialogo è presentare la figura di Socrate, infatti la conclusione è stata giudicata “aporetica” poiché non chiarisce il problema ma lo lascia aperto.
Ciò che conta sono la maieutica socratica e il suo metodo dialettico, mentre il messaggio che Platone voleva trasmettere è sicuramente che nessuno era in grado di educare i giovani come Socrate.

Nel dialogo vediamo Teagete che aspira ad una saggezza che però non riesce bene a definire e non sa a chi rivolgersi, così, dialogando con Socrate, si va a definire il tipo di saggezza, quella politica, che Teagete vorrebbe avere. Quando Socrate gli consiglia di rivolgersi a uomini politici, Teagete insiste per essere educato dal suo interlocutore, che dopo averlo avvertito che, a causa del suo “segno demonico”, potrebbe non trarre alcun beneficio, decide comunque di prenderlo sotto la sua ala.

La conclusione è “insoddisfacente” poiché non è esplicitato l’oggetto vero della sapienza a cui Teagete aspira e non vi sono indicati i modi con cui Socrate intende educare il suo allievo.

Tuttavia per essere un dialogo platonico è molto più facile da leggere di altri e non meno mette in luce la figura di Socrate rispetto ai dialoghi della maturità o della vecchiaia. Ascoltare un dialogo che è molto verosimile, poiché si tratta di un dialogo socratico, è sempre piacevole e anche se a livello di contenuti non è particolarmente significativo, sento che questa lettura mi lascerà qualcosa.

[M F · Rating 2 out of 5]

Another in a line of Platonic dialogues that was likely not written by Plato. From a philosophical perspective, I suppose you could call Theages ethics, but it's really not philosophical at all, unless you count the astonishing revelation that if you want a particular type of wisdom, you should go learn from someone who has that wisdom. Here's the gist: Socrates tries to help out a friend by figuring out what kind of wisdom the man's son, Theages, is looking for. When he finds out he wants to govern people, Socrates briefly teases him about wanting to be a tyrant before telling him to go learn from wise politicians. Theages protests, wanting to learn from Socrates instead, he says he can't teach anyone anything, unless it's love. He is, he says, the best at that (non-Platonic Socrates is quite the braggart). He also mentions "the god," that weird divine voice of premonition or omen that he sometimes gets, and warns Theages that, unless the god wills it, Theages will learn nothing from him. Unsurprisingly, Theages convinces to tutor him, anyway. In the end, there's not much to recommend this one, either philosophically or dramatically.

[Egor xS · Rating 4 out of 5]

L'enquête sur l'éducation des jeunes découvre la politique dans la pensée. La raison souveraine s'avère proche de la volonté de puissance : l'intelligence menace de se transformer en la tyrannie.
La deuxième partie porte sur le démon et la mantique, et elle est plus ésotérique. Le démon de Socrate est celui qui décide du sort de la philosophie, de l'enseignement, de la parole. Ils sont tous soumis au hasard, à la pure contingence.
Il serait curieux d'apprendre les repères dont on se serve pour contester la paternité de l'auteur. Par exemple : l'un des verbes parmi les premiers utilisés, ἰδιολογέομαι ou ἰδιολογεῖσθαι, parler en privé, est imputé de ne parvenir que tardivement.

[Trounin · Rating 3 out of 5]

Пример Феага может служить отправной точкой для того, дабы понять, каким образом Сократ влиял на неокрепшие умы молодёжи. Как в случае растений, так и с человеком, требуется садовод, способный направить рост в нужную сторону, дабы из ладного ростка вышел крепкий ствол. Когда к Сократу обратился Демодок с просьбой дать основы мудрости сыну, то создал предмет для рассуждений. Что именно стоит подразумевать под мудростью?

(c) Trounin

[Jason Friedlander · Rating 4 out of 5]

It’s not very substantial in terms of adding to the corpus of Platonic philosophy, but it’s an entertaining detour and feels best appreciated as a short story/day-in-the-life portrait of Socrates. Because of how much he is deified/given almost magical properties, it’s probably another spurious dialogue, but I still think it’s worth a read— if anything, to better paint a picture of how Socrates was perceived in antiquity (especially since this was believed authentic for a very long time).

[Santiago González · Rating 3 out of 5]

Un diálogo que ha pasado históricamente por platónico pero hoy en día no se considera cual, donde Demódoco (que da nombre a un diálogo apócrifo) intenta que Sócrates acepte a su hijo Teages como discípulo, él alude a su demonio (daimon) para intentar librarse, aunque lo acaba aceptando.

Está bien para profundizar en el Sócrates místico y en su daemon, al ser considerado platónico ha tenido algo de influencia en la historia

[Joshua Dew · Rating 2 out of 5]

The first part has the feel of a public service announcement:
Father- Help my son wants to run off to be a sophist.
Socrates- Just say no to sophism, kid.
Theages- Gee, thanks, Socrates!
The second part which goes into detail about the nature of Socrates' daemon gives him a more mystical quality than is attributed in the authentic dialogues.

[Elliot Lake · Rating 3 out of 5]

Only really of note because Nietzsche quoted it.

It doesn't really add much to the other dialogues beyond learning from those who manifest the greatest talents, and some more discussion of Socrates' personal daemon

[Ruslan]

Феаг думает что хочет стать мудрее,
Сократ указывает на то, что Феаг хочет скорее управлять людьми,
Управляющий людьми так то тиран.
Сократ советует Феагу учиться у Продика или Горгия
Немного про даймон (голос, гений, демон)

[Favio Villaseñor · Rating 3 out of 5]

Es el demonio caprichosa intuición?

[Cole Whetstone · Rating 4 out of 5]

Review Forthcoming

[Genesis · Rating 3 out of 5]

"Dad, I want to be a tyrant, and rule over all men!". Those were the good old days when the youth had ambition and vigour. Nowadays, they just want to be YouTubers and to have likes. Sigh...

[Erik]

Spurious IMO. Too many references to other dialogues and too similar to Alcibiades I.

[Fabrizio Valenza · Rating 5 out of 5]

Fondamentale per le informazioni su Socrate esperto nelle cose di Eros e, di conseguenza, sul suo approccio mistico, segnalato dall’importantissimo approfondimento sul segno demonico di Socrate.