The Trojan Women

by Euripides, Diskin Clay (Translator)

Among surviving Greek tragedies only Euripides' Trojan Women shows us the extinction of a whole city, an entire people. Despite its grim theme, or more likely because of the centrality of that theme to the deepest fears of our own age, this is one of the relatively few Greek tragedies that regularly finds its way to the stage. Here the power of Euripides' theatrical and moral imagination speaks clearly across the twenty-five centuries that separate our world from his. The theme is really a double one: the suffering of the victims of war, exemplified by the woman who survive the fall of Troy, and the degradation of the victors, shown by the Greeks' reckless and ultimately self-destructive behavior. It offers an enduring picture of human fortitude in the midst of despair. Trojan Women gains special relevance, of course, in times of war. It presents a particularly intense account of human suffering and uncertainty, but one that is also rooted in considerations of power and policy, morality and expedience. Furthermore, the seductions of power and the dangers both of its exercise and of resistance to it as portrayed in Trojan Women are not simply philosophical or rhetorical gambits but part of the lived experience of Euripides' day. And their analogues in our own day lie all too close at hand.

This new powerful translation of Trojan Women includes an illuminating introduction, explanatory notes, a glossary, and suggestions for further reading.

Genres: Plays, Classics, Drama, Mythology, Fiction, Theatre, Greek Mythology

128 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 416

About the author

Euripides (Greek: Ευριπίδης) (ca. 480 BC–406 BC) was a tragedian of classical Athens. Along with Aeschylus and Sophocles, he is one of the three ancient Greek tragedians for whom any plays have survived in full. Some ancient scholars attributed ninety-five plays to him, but the Suda says it was ninety-two at most. Of these, eighteen or nineteen have survived more or less complete (Rhesus is suspect). There are many fragments (some substantial) of most of his other plays. More of his plays have survived intact than those of Aeschylus and Sophocles together, partly because his popularity grew as theirs declined—he became, in the Hellenistic Age, a cornerstone of ancient literary education, along with Homer, Demosthenes, and Menander.
Euripides is identified with theatrical innovations that have profoundly influenced drama down to modern times, especially in the representation of traditional, mythical heroes as ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances. This new approach led him to pioneer developments that later writers adapted to comedy, some of which are characteristic of romance. He also became "the most tragic of poets", focusing on the inner lives and motives of his characters in a way previously unknown. He was "the creator of ... that cage which is the theatre of William Shakespeare's Othello, Jean Racine's Phèdre, of Henrik Ibsen and August Strindberg," in which "imprisoned men and women destroy each other by the intensity of their loves and hates". But he was also the literary ancestor of comic dramatists as diverse as Menander and George Bernard Shaw.
His contemporaries associated him with Socrates as a leader of a decadent intellectualism. Both were frequently lampooned by comic poets such as Aristophanes. Socrates was eventually put on trial and executed as a corrupting influence. Ancient biographies hold that Euripides chose a voluntary exile in old age, dying in Macedonia, but recent scholarship casts doubt on these sources.

Reviews

[Lisa of Troy · Rating 5 out of 5]

According to Greek mythology, Helen was married to Menelaus. However, Helen runs off with Prince Paris of Troy. This sparks the 10-year epic battle of Troy. This story is set at the very end of the 10-year war. Achilles has killed the mighty warrior Hector, and Paris has killed Achilles. Hector leaves behind a wife, Andromache. There is also the Queen of Troy, Hecuba, who is the mother of Hector. Now, what will happen to Andromache, Hecuba, and Helen?

If you read The Song of Achilles, this essentially picks up where that book ended. For the first time, we finally get to meet Helen (who is supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world). We find out what the women of Troy really think about Helen. Are they awed by her beauty? What will Menelaus think of Helen? Is he still in love with her? Will he restore her as his wife and queen? Did Paris capture Helen by force or did she run off of her own free will? All of these questions will be answered.

No matter what, no one will take any personal responsibility. It is always, always someone else’s fault in Greek mythology. Also, when you do someone a favor, they are never happy and grateful but are hoping for the favor-granters downfall.

This play was written by Euripides in 415 BC. The language is a bit archaic and even though the play itself is only about an hour read aloud, I spent far longer reviewing the reference materials. For this, I used James Mustich 1,000 Books to Read Before You Die (this book is forever at my side) and litcharts.com. Is this a little tedious? Yes. However, Thomas Paine said, “What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.”

This is a book from James Mustich’s 1,000 Books to Read.

2024 Reading Schedule
Jan Middlemarch
Feb The Grapes of Wrath
Mar Oliver Twist
Apr Madame Bovary
May A Clockwork Orange
Jun Possession
Jul The Folk of the Faraway Tree Collection
Aug Crime and Punishment
Sep Heart of Darkness
Oct Moby-Dick
Nov Far From the Madding Crowd
Dec A Tale of Two Cities

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[Fionnuala]

I'm reading The Odyssey at the moment but I find myself still clinging to the world of The Iliad—which I finished five days ago. I want to be still reading that book instead of its sequel, even though most readers would say the sequel is much more interesting. My dilemma is partly to do with a difference in the narrative voice of The Odyssey, but mostly because it begins many years after the events of The Iliad.

Euripides' short play, The Trojan Women has provided the closure I needed. When the chorus sang these lines, "And out of my lips a music breaks, For Troy, Troy, and the end of the years," I felt as if I were assisting at a very beautiful and moving funeral rite for The Iliad.

And I liked that Euripides didn't make the Argives who'd sacked Troy triumphant. Instead we see a bunch of weary soldiers, "waiting the wind that blows at last for home.
For wives and children, left long years away."

And while there is only grief for the Trojan women who are being divided out among the Argive captains, they hold themselves together well. Hecuba, wife of the dead king Priam of Troy, and mother of dead sons, Hector and Paris, is the first woman to speak:

"My body rocketh, and would fain
Move to the tune of tears that flow:
For tears are music too, and keep
A song unheard in hearts that weep...
...O, I will think of things gone long ago
And weave them to a song, like one more tear
In the heart of misery."

The entire play centres around Hecuba. She is on stage from beginning to end, and she speaks in turn to the other characters who enter: her daughter Cassandra, her daughter-in-law Andromache, her little grandson Astyanax, her daughter-in-law Helen, as well as to the other unnamed women who form a kind of chorus. She also speaks to the two main male characters, King Menelaus and his herald. Always she keeps her dignity and her words are very moving.

When her little grandson is murdered offstage, and then returned to her arms, this is Hecuba's speech:

"O ye Argives, was your spear
Keen, and your hearts so low and cold, to fear
This babe ? 'Twas a strange murder for brave men!
For fear this babe some day might raise again
His fallen land! Had ye so little pride?"

And then she recalls how at daybreak, he'd creep into her bed,

"Called me kind names, and promised: 'Grandmother, When thou art dead, I will cut close my hair.
And lead out all the captains to ride by Thy tomb.'
Why didst thou cheat me so? 'Tis I,
Old, homeless, childless, that for thee must shed
Cold tears, so young, so miserably dead.
Dear God, the pattering welcomes of thy feet,
The nursing in my lap ; and O, the sweet
Falling asleep together! All is gone.
How should a poet carve the funeral stone
To tell thy story true?"

I think Euripides must have been such a deep-feeling man to write those lines—and he wrote them back in 430 BCE. We think we own 'feelings' in our era. But no.

And then Hecuba is further tested.
She has to watch as her daughter Cassandra is lead off to King Agamemnon's ship—and to his bed. She has to watch as Andromache is taken off to Achilles' son's ship, and his bed too.
As for herself, she is destined for Odysseus' ship, which is extra cruel since it was Odysseus who decided the fate of her grandson.
Cassandra, who can see into the future, almost tells her mother how that journey in Odysseus' ship will work out, but she doesn't. And the reader, knowing something of all that, notes Hecuba's fears about ships:

"Lo, yonder ships: I ne'er set foot on one.
But tales and pictures tell, when over them
Breaketh a storm not all too strong to stem.
Each man strives hard, the tiller gripped, the mast
Manned, the hull baled, to face it: till at last
Too strong breaks the o'erwhelming sea: lo, then
They cease, and yield them up as broken men
To fate and the wild waters…"

When Helen is lead out to hear her own fate, Hecuba addresses her, summing up the whole Trojan war that might have been avoided:

"Often and often did I charge thee ;
'Go, My daughter ; go thy ways. My son [Paris] will know
New loves. I will give aid, and steal thee past
The Argive watch. O give us peace at last,
Us and our foes!'

But Helen always refused to go. Now, many exhausted years later, when Troy has been reduced to rubble, she is being returned to her husband, King Menelaus, who addresses Hecuba in words that echo Hecuba's view of Helen:

"Thy thought doth walk with mine in one intent.
'Tis sure ; her heart was willing, when she went
Forth to a stranger's bed. And all her fair
Tale of enchantment, 'tis a thing of air!"

And although it's not clear if Menelaus will let Helen live or not once they reach his kingdom, she goes stoically "forth to the long Greek ships, And the sea's foaming."

To the reader, Helen's fate somehow seems better than all the rest, unfair as that may seem. At least she is being returned to a place she can call home.

[Luís · Rating 5 out of 5]

That shows us a concatenation of several tragedies that happen simultaneously to several women due to war. And not to a specific cause of direct divine origin, this work of Euripides acquires a heartrending force and a tremendous realistic vigor that makes it closer to the current reader than other works of Greek tragedies.
Before the fall of Troy, the god Poseidon, a Trojan sympathizer, speaks with the Greek goddess Athena. She is offended because Ajax has raped the priestess, Cassandra, dragging her from her temples without any Greek criticizing him. Both decide that each of them will collide and receive punishment on their return home.
Meanwhile, several notable Trojans wait for the Greek victors to decide their destinies in the captivity that awaits them, and a Greek messenger will inform them of what they will be. First, Hecuba, the widow of King Priam, regrets that, at his age, he will have to perform tasks and serve Ulysses. Later, when Menelao considers the punishment he must give to the traitor Helena and talks about killing her when he arrives in Greece, she defends herself, saying that she is not to blame for what happened and that the order goddess Aphrodite kidnapped her. But Hecuba reveals that he took a fancy to his son, Paris, and never resisted leaving Greece. Furthermore, he asks that Menelao punish her as he deserves and, above all, does not allow her to travel to Greece in the same boat, fearing that he will seduce her again and be free from punishment.
Kassandra knows that Agamemnon will own it and shows us his diviner capacity to foretell the catastrophes that will befall the Greeks. Polyxena, another of Hecuba's daughters, is destined to be sacrificed before the tomb of Achilles. Andromache, the widow of Hector, is intended to be the son of Achilles. However, before his son is ripped out and thrown from a tower, as decided by Ulysses, he thinks it is too dangerous to leave the son of such a prominent Trojan hero.

[Jean Menzies · Rating 4 out of 5]

I found this play to possibly be the Greek tragedy that has evoked the most emotion from me to date. I enjoy Euripides critical, ironic style and how he plays with different versions of Greek myths and this play is no different. It was very hard hitting and dealt with some dark themes (the post-war victims in ancient times). I could really picture the anguish and I would love to see this play performed on stage. It also has some interesting ancient commentary on war in general and the myth of the Trojan war.

[Ian · Rating 4 out of 5]

I’m not really one for “reading” plays as such, but then again my home location means I rarely have the opportunity to see them performed on the stage. I thought this audio version of The Trojan Women would be a decent compromise. As you may have seen from the cover, it’s performed by a group called the Online Stage. The actors’ accents suggest that it’s an American company. The play is presented here in a modern English translation.

The play concerns the terrible fate that befalls those who, in ancient times, were defeated in war. The principal characters are four women, Hecuba (widow of King Priam), her daughter Cassandra, Andromache (widow of Hector) and of course Helen, who needs no introduction. Their male family members have all been killed and they are to be enslaved, shared out amongst the Achaean warriors. The women may not have been real characters, but their fate was the fate of many in real life, and their feelings stand for the countless numbers who did suffer such a fate.

Helen is held to blame for the disaster, although she defends herself by arguing that (to paraphrase) “it was the gods wot done it”, the whole thing having begun with the “Judgement of Paris”. Hecuba argues that Helen acted from her own free will, and that the supposed competition involved in the Judgement of Paris is completely unbelievable.

Speaking of the gods, I recently read a book on atheism in Ancient Greece, so was interested in what Euripides had to say about the Olympians. The gods, or at least their machinations, feature prominently, and Hecuba talks frequently about going down to Hades. Interestingly though, at one point Andromache tells her that the dead are to be envied, since to be dead is the same as having never been born. The dead have no feelings and are therefore free of the extreme grief that the women are experiencing, not to mention the utter misery of living the rest of their lives as slaves. Her comments suggest she does not believe in an afterlife.

The play contains a few insightful comments.

A short audiobook at just an hour and a half. I found it worthwhile though.

[Lawyer · Rating 5 out of 5]

The Trojan Women: Euripides' Warning on the Futility of War

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.-Edmund Burke

What does a play presented in 415 BC possibly have to say to us today? Why read it?

Why would Euripides, a Greek dramatist, choose The Trojan Women as the subjects of one of his greatest plays? Did he have a reason in presenting this controversial play to an Athenian audience?

Be patient with me, oh, Reader. Each question has an answer. No question presented here is Rhetorical. I do not engage in the ancient art of classical Oratory. Nor do I engage in the art of Sophistry for I believe Deception to be among the most lowest practices among Men or Gods.

Once, in my youth, I was known as a Scholar of the Classical World. For this I was awarded Prizes. I have Trophies and Books proclaiming my knowledge of the ways of an ancient world. In the naivete of my youth I did not realize how closely the age in which I lived mirrored a world I thought had vanished so long ago. I studied the Greek and Roman Epics. The Arts and Theatrical Productions of both great Classical Societies. I knew the histories of each of these Worlds, and what led to their Downfalls.

Now, in my older years, I look at the events of this World in which we now live. I am dismayed. For I see we have learned little.

You think we live in an Age of Wonders. Oh, yes. In many ways we do. Information is available at our fingertips. We communicate with one another at a pace that satisfies our urges for instant gratification. We have little patience, do we not?

I have lived through wars. I have lived through tensions between great nations. I have lived through a time where we stood on the brink of the destruction of this Planet. Some called it a Cold War. But it became dangerously hot. Wisdom seemed to prevail. For generations. And even the Cold war disappeared. The danger of nuclear war faded into obscurity.

But, Oh, Reader, contemplate the current State of the times in which we live now. The Hubris of the Men who Live in this World of Today. Determine whether you find yourself Comfortable.

I will give you a few moments to consider these things. Then we will consider continuing this discourse.

Have you thought about it?

Of course, I am sure you know of the Trojan War. How the Greeks, the Achaeans, banded together to lay siege to the City of Troy to preserve the honor of Menelaus, a King, who lost his wife Helen to Paris, a son of Troy. How they fought for ten years before breaching the walls of Troy through deception. How Troy fell. How the House of Troy was destroyed, the Trojan Women were enslaved and distributed to the leaders of Greece as slaves, as Concubines. And, how the Greeks offended the very Gods who had supported them in their efforts to bring about the downfall of Troy. How those very Gods then turned upon their favored revenants and sought to destroy them because of their faithlessness.

Why then, would Euripides tell this story to an Athenian audience?

Because Athens was at war with Sparta. Had been at war with Sparta in the Peleponessian War for many years. At this time, the Arrogance of the Athenians had led them to sack the City of Melos. They killed every one of the men of Melos. They sold everyone of the women and children of Melos into slavery.

Euripides chose the Trojan Women as his protagonists in this play to show the Athenians the error of their Hubris when a dominant nation conquers a lesser one for its own prideful purposes. And Euripides knew that as he was presenting this play, the same Athenians were planning a war against the Empire of Syracuse. In his wisdom, Euripides, predicted it would be a disaster that would lead to the downfall of Athens and their subjection forever to their long time enemy Sparta.

Euripides in this tragedy attempted to show his fellow Athenians that war only led to tragedy. That the only result of engaging in War was Futility. That those who suffered the most were the Widows, the Orphans of those who died in War.

Euripides was correct. Athens began its war against Syracuse the very year The Trojan Women was presented. The War was a disaster. The entire Athenian Expedition of two hundred ships and thousands of men were wiped out in a single stroke. In 404 BC, Athens fell to Sparta forever. The wailing of Widows and Orphans was great.

Euripides Message to us Today

On January 2, 2016, President Vladimir Putin signed a Security Document stating that the United States and Nato were a threat to Russia.

On January 6, 2016, North Korea exploded another Nuclear device. North Korea claims it was a Hydrogen device.

This week Middle Eastern nations have severed diplomatic nations with Iran.

In the United States, at no time has the country been more divided between liberal and conservative right wings of the government.

The anonymous faces of ISIS continue to commit terrorist acts about the world.

Gun lobbyists in the United States continue to control resistance to reasonable effots to achieve gun control.

The Innocent continue to cry.

Hubris remains alive and well.

Euripides' message is as relevant today as it was in 415 BC.

[Armin Ahmadianzadeh · Rating 4 out of 5]

زنان تروآ

چهارمین نمایشنامه از کتاب پنج نمایشنامه ائوروپیدس ترجمه استاد کوثری عزیز نمایشنامه زنان تروآ هستش.

|خلاصه داستان زنان تروآ

"زنان تروآ" یک تراژدی از اوریپیدس است که پس از سقوط تروآ رخ می‌دهد. این نمایشنامه سرنوشت زنان تروآ، از جمله هکوبه، کاساندرا، آندروماخه و هلن را بررسی می‌کند که با بردگی، قربانی‌های انسانی و دیگر بی‌رحمی‌ها در دستان یونانیان پیروز مواجه می‌شوند. به‌نظرم می‌توان این اثر را یکی از پیشروترین آثار در ۲۵۰۰ سال پیش در زمره ادبیات ضدجنگ قرار داد. اثری که تبعات و آثار مخرب جنگ را نه از دید مردها، بلکه از دید زن‌های تروآیی‌های شکست‌خورده روایت می‌کند.


|تحلیل دقیق‌تر کاراکترهای نمایشنامه زنان تروآ:

هکوبه:
هکوبه، به عنوان ملکه تروآ، نماد شهر و مردم سقوط کرده است. او یکی از مرکزی‌ترین شصخیت‌های نمایشنامه است. تحول او از یک ملکه قدرتمند به یک مادر داغدار و اسیر، تأثیر ویرانگر جنگ بر افراد را به تصویر می‌کشد. تاب‌آوری و قدرت هکوبه در برابر سختی‌ها، روحیه تروآیی و ظرفیت انسانی برای تحمل رنج را نمایان می‌سازد. با وجود اینکه خودش دائما ناله و زاری می‌کند، ولی همواره سعی می‌کند به‌بقیه روحیه و تسلی بدهد.

کاساندرا:
کاساندرا، دختر هکوبه، یک شخصیت تراژیک است که با رؤیاهای پیشگویانه‌ای که هرگز مورد باور قرار نمی‌گیرند، نفرین شده است. شخصیت او نمایانگر ناتوانی افراد در برابر اراده الهی و بی‌فایده بودن تلاش برای مبارزه با سرنوشت است. پذیرش نهایی کاساندرا از سرنوشتش، بازتابی از تلاش انسان برای یافتن معنا در رنج است. حتی می‌توان فلسفه ابزوردیستی کامو را در این کاراکتر مشاهده کرد و به‌نظرم شباهتی بین این شخصیت و اسطوره سیزیف وجود دارد.

آندروماخه:
آندروماخه، بیوه قهرمان تروایی هکتور، تراژدی جنگ و تأثیر آن بر بی‌گناهان را تجسم می‌کند. عزم آندروماخه برای گرامیداشت یاد همسرش و محافظت از پسرش، قدرت عشق، وفاداری و تاب‌آوری را نشان می‌دهد.

هلن:
هلن، که اغلب به عنوان علت جنگ تروآ شناخته می‌شود، شخصیتی پیچیده دارد که مفاهیم گناه و مسئولیت را به چالش می‌کشد. نقش او در نمایشنامه سؤالاتی درباره قدرت مخرب تمایل و عواقب اعمال فردی مطرح می‌کند. شخصیت هلن خط باریکی بین قربانی و شرور را نمایان می‌سازد، زیرا او هم علت ویرانی تروآ است و هم قربانی خواسته‌های خدایان.

|عناصر موجود در لایه‌های عمیق نمایشنامه:

عواقب جنگ:
این نمایشنامه تصویری تلخ از پیامدهای جنگ بر بی‌گناهان ارائه می‌دهد. حتی می‌توان دید که جنگ دو سر باخت است و هیچ‌کسی پیروز جنگ نیست.

نقش زنان:
زنان تروآ جنبه‌های مختلف عاملیت زنانه را در دنیای مردسالار یونان باستان نمایان می‌سازند. داستان‌های آن‌ها چالش‌هایی را که زنان در جامعه‌ای که سرنوشت‌شان عمدتاً توسط مردان و خدایان تعیین می‌شود، تجربه می‌کنند، برجسته می‌کند.

سرنوشت و اراده آزاد:
نمایشنامه با ایده سرنوشت و نقش آن در شکل‌دهی به زندگی‌های انسانی دست و پنجه نرم می‌کند. تلاش شخصیت‌ها برای ابراز عاملیت خود در برابر مداخله الهی و پیامدهای اعمالشان، سؤالاتی درباره ماهیت اراده آزاد مطرح می‌کند.

رنج و تاب‌آوری:
"زنان تروآ" ظرفیت انسانی برای تحمل رنج و یافتن معنا در سختی‌ها را بررسی می‌کند. تاب‌آوری شخصیت‌ها در برابر شکست و ناامیدی، قدرت روح انسانی و امید را نمایان می‌سازد.

در خلاصه، "زنان تروآ" یک بررسی چندلایه از عواقب جنگ، نقش زنان در جامعه یونان باستان و تلاش انسانی برای یافتن معنا در رنج است. تصویر قدرتمند آن از تجربه زنانه و تم‌های عمیقی که به آن پرداخته شده، این اثر را به یک کار ادبی زمان‌ناپذیر و تفکر برانگیز تبدیل کرده است.

|کلام آخر در باب زنان تروآ

به‌شخصه آه‌ و‌ زاری‌ها و ناله‌کردن‌های زنان قربانی نمایشنامه رو عمیقا دوست داشتم. مونولوگ‌هایی که به‌نظرم به‌شدت قوی بودن و در انتقال احساسات قربانیان به‌خوبی عمل می‌کردن. و زنان تروآ رو اثری پیشرو و آوانگارد در زمانه خودش می‌بینم. اینکه در ۲۵۰۰ سال پیش به‌این تفکر جنگ ستیزانه برسی و ابرازش کنی به‌نظرم خیلی حرفه.

ترجمه:
استاد کوثری، بی‌نظیر و دلبرانه ترجمه می‌کنه...🫠🔥

امتیاز من به‌این اثر: ۴ از ۵

تکه‌هایی ناب از نمایشنامه:

"زنهار، از آدمیان هیچ‌کس را
تا آن زمان که پای بر روی خاک دارو
نیک‌بخت مشمارید."

"حالیا شکسته استخوان، شکافته فرقی
که لبخنده‌ی مرگ است شکفته بر این سر."

"باری، این رسم و آیین مردگان را سودی نمی‌بخشد
و تنها زندگان را دل‌خوش می‌کند."

[Manny · Rating 4 out of 5]

After successfully resisting a ten year siege, Troy has fallen, thanks to the Greeks' final dirty trick. The Trojan men have all been killed. The women and children are being carried off to become prostitutes and slaves. Hecuba, who yesterday was the queen of this beautiful city, looks at the smoking ruins around her and tries to comfort Andromache, her daughter-in-law. One day, she says, Andromache's young son Astyanax will be a grown man, and he will take revenge on the cruel invaders. But Ulysses, the cynical and illusionless Greek general, has already thought of this. He's just sent his flunky, Talthyrios, to tell Andromache that they've changed their minds: Astyanax will not be spared with the other children, but rather will be put to death as a potentially dangerous element. Andromache's anguished reply is still echoing around us three thousand years later, having been passed from Homer, to Euripides, to Sartre:

Hommes de l'Europe,
vous méprisez l'Afrique et l'Asie
et vous nous appelez barbares, je crois,
Mais quand la gloriole et la cupidité
vous jettent chez nous,
vous pillez, vous torturez, vous massacrez.
Où sont les barbares, alors ?
Et vous, les Grecs, si fièrs de votre humanité,
Où êtes-vous ?
Je vous le dis : pas un de nous
n'aurait osé faire à une mère
ce que vous me faites à moi,
avec la calme de la bonne conscience

(Men of Europe
You despise Africa and Asia
And I think you call us barbarians
But when your greed and love of glory
Bring you to our shores
You pillage, you torture, you kill.
Who are the barbarians then?
You Greeks, so proud of your civilization,
Who are you?
I tell you this: not one of us
Would have dared to do to a mother
What you are doing to me
Without it even disturbing your conscience)

[Peiman · Rating 4 out of 5]

برای این نمایشنامه که ریویووهای خیلی خوبی نوشته شده و حرف بیشتری نمی‌مونه اما مدت‌ها پیش نمایشنامه‌ی زنان تروا نوشته‌ی ژان پل سارتر رو خونده بودم و دوست داشتم یک مقایسه بین نمایشنامه‌ی سارتر و اوریپید داشته باشم ولی چون مدت زیادی ازش می‌گذره این کار خطیر رو محول کردم به دوست عزیزم جناب «چت جی‌پی‌تی» و متن زیر اثر ایشون و ویرایش شده توسط منه. از اونجایی که می‌دونم نمی‌خونید یک جدول خلاصه ازش هم توی کانال تلگرام گذاشتم.

۱. زمینه‌ی تاریخی و سیاسی

اوریپید (۴۱۵ پیش از میلاد)

در میانه‌ی جنگ پلوپونزی (آتن علیه اسپارت). نمایشنامه در جشنواره‌ی شهر آتن اجرا شد، درست پس از قتل‌عام مردم جزیره‌ی «ملوس» به‌دست آتنی‌ها. اوریپید قصد داشت نقدی بر جنگ‌طلبی و خشونت آتن بنویسد.
لحن: اعتراض شاعرانه و تراژیک به بی‌رحمی فاتحان.

سارتر (قرن ۲۰، ۱۹۶۵)

در اوج جنگ الجزایر و استعمار فرانسه. سارتر با نگاهی اگزیستانسیالیستی و سیاسی، متن اوریپید را بازنویسی کرد. هدفش نقد استعمار، خشونت ارتش فرانسه و بی‌معنایی قدرت بود.
لحن: فلسفی، سیاسی و صریح.


۲. تمرکز و مضمون

اوریپید

نشان دادن رنج زنان و کودکان پس از جنگ. تأکید بر جبر سرنوشت و بی‌رحمی خدایان. روایت تراژدی در قالب اسطوره، اما با کارکردی هشدار دهنده برای شهر آتن.

سارتر

برجسته‌کردن قدرت انتخاب، مسئولیت انسانی و مقاومت. او خدایان را به حاشیه برد، چون در نگاه اگزیستانسیالیستی، سرنوشت در دستان انسان است. تأکید بر بی‌معنایی جنگ و بی‌عدالتی نظام‌های استعماری مدرن.


۳. جایگاه خدایان

اوریپید

نمایش با پوزئیدون و آتنا شروع می‌شود؛ آن‌ها درباره‌ی سرنوشت تروا گفتگو می‌کنند.
نقش خدایان: نیروهای بزرگ و مهیب که سرنوشت انسان‌ها را رقم می‌زنند.
انسان در برابر خدایان ناتوان است.

سارتر

خدایان کاملاً حذف یا بی‌اهمیت می‌شوند. سارتر نمی‌خواست نیرویی ماورایی را مسئول فجایع بداند؛ انسان‌ها خود مسئول خشونت‌اند. تأکید بر آزادی و انتخاب انسان حتی در شرایط اسارت.


۴. زبان و سبک

اوریپید

زبان شاعرانه، سرشار از مرثیه و سوگ. کُر (هم‌سرایان) نقش بزرگی دارد، هم در ایجاد فضای احساسی و هم در بیان پیام ضدجنگ. تراژدی بیشتر در سطح اسطوره‌ای و عاطفی بیان می‌شود.

سارتر

زبان خشک‌تر، فلسفی‌تر و معاصر. دیالوگ‌ها رنگ و بوی سیاسی و اگزیستانسیالیستی دارند. تأکید بر مناظره‌های عقلانی و سیاسی به‌جای سوگ شاعرانه.


۵. تصویر زنان

اوریپید

زنان قربانیان اصلی جنگ‌اند: هکابه، کاساندرا، آندروماخه. نمایش، صدای آن‌هاست در برابر فاتحان بی‌رحم. زنان بیشتر نقش «راوی رنج» دارند.

سارتر

زنان علاوه بر قربانی بودن، تبدیل به نماد مقاومت و اعتراض می‌شوند. آن‌ها نماینده‌ی «مردم استعمارزده» هستند. سارتر از زنان برای رساندن پیام سیاسی خود استفاده می‌کند.


۶. جهان‌بینی

اوریپید

سرنوشت‌باور: رنج گریزناپذیر است. جنگ بی‌رحم است، اما خدایان و تقدیر آن را رقم زده‌اند. تراژدی در پذیرش ناتوانی انسان نهفته است.

سارتر

اگزیستانسیالیستی: انسان آزاد است و مسئول انتخاب‌های خویش حتی در شرایط اسارت. رنج، نتیجه‌ی انتخاب‌های انسانی و نظام‌های سیاسی است، نه سرنوشت یا خدایان. تراژدی در آگاهی از مسئولیت انسان است.


۷. نتیجه و اثرگذاری

اوریپید

اثری تراژیک و شاعرانه که علیه جنگ هشدار می‌دهد. بیشتر با احساسات و همدلی تماشاگر کار می‌کند.

سارتر

اثری سیاسی و فلسفی که علیه استعمار و خشونت مدرن می‌شورد. بیشتر با استدلال و ایدئولوژی تماشاگر را به فکر وامی‌دارد.


در یک جمله:
«زنان تروا»ی اوریپید مرثیه‌ای است بر ویرانی و رنج زنان پس از جنگ، در حالی‌که «زنان تروا»ی سارتر بیانیه‌ای سیاسی–فلسفی علیه استعمار و خشونت انسان علیه انسان است.

[Ali Ahmadi · Rating 4 out of 5]

جنگ چهره‌ی زنانه (نـ)دارد

جنگ تروا‌ پایان یافته. آنچه که برای مردان باقی مانده تقسیم غنیمت‌هاست و مجازات مقصر. هم غنیمت‌ها زنند (در کنار چند تکه شمشیر و سپر برنزی) و هم مقصر، و بر طبق قاعده، هیچ کدام نمی‌توانند سرنوشت خود را تغییر دهند. البته که این سرشت تراژدی‌‌ست: گرفتار شدن در چنبر نیروهایی ناشناخته که یارای بیرون شدن از چنگالشان را نداری. اما زنان تروا‌ یکی از معدود نمایشنامه‌هایی‌ست که نشان می‌دهد کیفیت تراژیک زنان تنها بنا به جنسیت‌شان دو چندان است. یک بار اسیر خدایان نادیده و بار دیگر مغلوب مردانی که هر تلاشی می‌کنند تا بار مسئولیتی بر گردنشان نباشد. اگر جنگی شد و هزاران نفر مردند تقصیر ما نبود، خدایان گناهکارند یا زن‌ها. به هر حال چاره‌اش یا قربانی‌های بیشتر به درگاه خدایان عصبانی‌ست، یا حذف فیزیکی آن جرثومه‌ی فساد، هلن.

در اینجا اوریپیدس را در جنگ‌ستیزترین حالتش می‌بینیم. اینکه دقیقن کدام نبرد یا نبردهای تاریخی او را به این موضع‌گیری رسانده چندان مهم نیست، که آنچه بیشتر به چشم می‌آید نفرت او از دستگاه جنگ‌افروز یونانی‌ست. دستگاهی که فرار یا ربایش یک زن را دستاویزی کرد برای ده سال محاصره و کشتار و بلاخره تباهی بی‌پایان برای هر دو طرف. تروا نابود شد، اما ترواهای دیگر هستند و دوباره با همین بهانه‌ها به آتش کشیده می‌شوند. آنچه اوریپیدس دستمایه‌ی اثرش قرار داده، یعنی رنج‌ جسمی و روانی زنان و کودکان در جنگ و پس از آن، گرچه در زمان خودش بسیار پیشرو بود و تا همین امروز اهمیت فراوانش را حفظ کرده، اما از بطن گفتمانی مردسالار بیرون آمده که نمایشنامه را از نظر محتوایی متناقض‌نما می‌کند.

از نگاهی تاریخی، زن در انواع مختلف ادبیات (حماسی/غنایی/داستانی/مذهبی) یا بدکاره‌ای اغواگر و آشوب‌آفرین است، یا قدیسی دست‌نیافتنی که دامان پاکش آلوده نشده، یا مادری که همه چیزش را فدای موفقیت همسر و تربیت کودکانش کرده. (الگوی مشابهی را در خدایان یونانی هم می‌بینیم. آنجایی که آفرودیت الاهه‌ی عشق است، آرتمیس دوشیزه‌ی شکارچی و دمتر نماد باروری‌. البته هرا و آتنا چندان در این قالب قرار نمی‌گیرند و ویژگی‌هایشان به‌تدریج یا در کهن‌الگوهای دیگر جذب و هضم گشته یا تا دوران مدرن فراموش می‌شوند.) این کهن‌الگوها زمانی مساله‌ساز می‌شوند که می‌فهمیم کاربرد اصلی آن‌ها فروکاستن ابعاد مختلف روانی و شخصیتی زنان به چند جنبه‌ی کلی‌ست تا قالب‌هایی جنسیتی برای آن‌ها بسازد. و بدتر اینکه تناقض‌های بنیادین در این کهن‌الگوها وجود دارد که یکی از مهم‌ترین‌هاش همین است که زن اگر خواستنی و اغواگر باشد نامحترم است، و اگر محترم باشد یعنی لابد آنقدری خواستنی نبوده.

زنان تروا‌ موردی استثنایی برای معرفی این کهن‌الگوهاست، زیرا انگار برای اولین بار شخصیت‌پردازی زنان در این قالب‌ها را تئوریزه کرده:
— هلن آن فاحشه‌ی خانه‌خراب‌کن است که یک‌تنه جنگ را آغاز کرده. ایده‌ی زن اغواگر آنقدر مهم است که هلن در دفاع از خودش تقصیر را نه به دوش پاریس، که به گردن آفرودیت می‌اندازد، زیرا به هر حال، از نظر تراژدی‌نویس و زن‌هایی که آفریده، مرد اگر لغزشی هم کرده بلاخره قابل چشم‌پوشی‌ست.
— کاساندرا نماد پاکدامنی‌ست و دیوانگیِ متعاقبش وقتی که این پاکی لکه‌دار می‌شود.
— هکوبا و آندروماک هر دو مادرانی وفادار و سخت‌کوشند که رنج عظیم از دست دادن خانه و فرزند را تحمل می‌کنند.

اما بین این کهن‌الگوها ناسازگاری‌های بزرگی وجود دارد. کاساندرا در دنیای دیگری زندگی می‌کند و ناتوان است از رسیدن به فهم مشترکی با مادرش هکوبا. و هر دوی اینها در کنار آندروماک به شدیدترین شکل ممکن علیه هلن می‌شورند و برای این هدف حتا از همدستی با پادشاه دشمن ترسی ندارند. همان زنانی که جنگ نابودی‌شان را رقم زده بر این باور استوارند که آتش جنگ را تنها یک زن روشن کرده. و این پارادوکسی‌ ناخواسته‌ست که صدای مردانه‌ی نویسنده می‌سازد: جنگ چهره‌ی زنانه (نـ)دارد.

خوانده‌شده از ترجمه‌ی کوثری.

[Steve]

Greek hydria, ca 520–510 BCE; Achilles dragging the body of Hector behind his chariot while Hecuba mourns her son's death and the winged figure of Iris pleads for a ransom of Hector’s body.


Joint review of Euripides' The Trojan Women and Jean-Paul Sartre's adaptation Les Troyennes

................... What shall the poet say,
what words will he inscribe upon your monument?
Here lies a little child the Argives killed, because
they were afraid of him. That? The epitaph of Greek shame.


In 415 BCE Euripides staged a trilogy of dramas accompanied by the usual satyr play of which only the final play of the trilogy has survived to our time - The Trojan Women. At the time of this first performance the initial stage of the Peloponnesian War was over and Athens' absurd expedition to Sicily was soon to begin, spurred on by Alcibiades' personal ambition. How the Athenians were to rue that mad decision.

Both sides of the Peloponnesian War had committed the most horrendous of massacres, particularly on the citizens of defeated cities, and I think Euripides had gotten well and truly sick of it. The Trojan Women is the story of the immediate aftermath of the Greeks' victory in the Trojan War, and in Euripides' hands it is a story of brutal, limitless murder by the victors and their dividing up and hauling away of the surviving women as spoils of war. Did the audience squirm in its seats as they watched their famous ancestors murder and rape the now hapless Trojans? In any case, they awarded the festival's theater prize to another playwright.

Not unusually for Euripides, the primary characters of the piece are women, particularly Hecuba, Queen of Troy, Cassandra, the mad seer, Andromache, Hector's widow, and Helen, the Face that Launched a Thousand Ships. They must endure the will of the Greek men, but the latter do not cut a dashing figure in this play, on the contrary.

In a poetic language whose stateliness and power recalls that of Aeschylus and which far outstrips any of the other Euripidean plays I've read, we witness the suffering of the women already staggering under the blows of recent losses who must endure yet further ravages during the play and, as is made oh so clear, for the rest of their lives.(*) It is more than a little harrowing.

In 1965 Jean-Paul Sartre staged an adaptation of The Trojan Women, not a translation, despite how Les Troyennes is catalogued here at GR. Sartre removed much less than he added, for, as he explains in the Introduction, he felt it necessary to fill in for a modern audience that which went without saying for the 5th century Greek audience. But he also saw an opportunity to make some points for a then contemporary audience. He chose to view the Trojan War as a "colonial war", and so the Greeks/Trojans shade into the Europeans/Colonized with interesting effect. Not satisfied with that, Sartre took the implicit nihilism of Euripides' piece in which the gods' whims and fancies saw to it that both the Trojans and the Greeks payed dearly despite all the pleas and sacrifices made to the gods by both sides and made it quite explicit.

Though Sartre writes in the Introduction that he "chose a poetic language which retains the ceremonial character of the text, its rhetorical value, - but which modifies its accent", little remains in Les Troyennes of that ceremonial character, of that rhetorical value, of that poetry. And with those went a fair amount of the emotional power of Euripides' play, at least for me. Nonetheless, it was very interesting to read this refracted image of Euripides' text and to wonder what the audience at the National Popular Theater made of it.


(*) In another play (Andromache) Euripides follows Andromache into her sexual servitude for Achilles' son, Neoptolemus; she bears him a son who replaces Astyanax - the son she bore Hector and who is murdered in The Trojan Women upon Odysseus' insistence - but who is, in turn, threatened with murder by Neoptolemus' Spartan wife. Euripides wrote Andromache quite a bit earlier (428-425), spills a great deal of patriotic bile over the Spartans and even gives the play a relatively happy ending.

[Mahvar · Rating 5 out of 5]

"زنان تروا" نمایشیه از ویرانی، غم، و تسلیم‌ناپذیری انسان در برابر قساوت جنگ. اوریپید، با نگاهی نافذ، از چشمان زنان مغلوب، بی‌عدالتی جنگ و بی‌ارزشی پیروزی‌های خونین رو روایت می‌کنه.
این نمایشنامه تصویریه از زنانی که با از دست دادن همه‌چیز—خانه، عشق، و خانواده—هنوز شجاعانه سنگینی اندوه خودشون رو حمل می‌کنن. اوریپید، در سکوت فریادهای زنان، نه فقط جنبه‌ انسانی جنگ، بلکه قدرت خارق‌العاده روح زنانه رو به تصویر می‌کشه.
این نمایشنامه اثریه که عمیق‌ترین زخم‌ها رو واکاوی میکنه و در عین حال، استقامت انسان رو در برابر تاریکی‌های اجتناب‌ناپذیر تقدیر، برجسته می‌کنه؛ شاهکاری که هنوز، قرن‌ها بعد، تلخی پیامش رو به ما گوشزد می‌کنه.

[Roya · Rating 3 out of 5]

[10]

"اکنون فرزندم و من غنایمی هستیم که ما را به یغما می‌برند، تنها غنایمی هستیم، چرخش چرخ روزگار، بزرگان را برده دیگران می‌سازد."

• آنچه باید قبل از خواندن این نمایشنامه بدونیم:
طی اتفاقاتی، پاریس (شاهزاده تروا و فرزند هکوب) باید تصمیم می‌گرفت که بین سه الهه هرا، آتنا و آفرودیت کدوم زیباتره. سر این انتخاب، هرا وعده‌ی فرمانروایی بر آسیا و اروپا، آتنا وعده‌ی پیروزی بر یونان و آفرودیت وعده‌ی هلن (همسر منلائوس) رو به پاریس دادند. پاریس شیفته‌ی زیبایی هلن شد و آفرودیت رو به عنوان زیباترین الهه انتخاب کرد که این باعث خشم هرا و آتنا شد و اون‌ها علیه تروا شدند.
آفرودیت به قولش عمل میکنه و هلن و پاریس با هم به تروا فرار می‌کنند. به همین خاطر، منلائوس و پادشاهان دیگر یونان متحد میشن و به جنگ با تروا میرن. در این جنگ، هرا و آتنا هم به یونانیان کمک می‌کنند. در نهایت، یونانیان با همون حیله اسب تروا معروف باعث شکست تروا میشن. نمایشنامه با شکست تروا در این جنگ آغاز میشه.

• نمایشنامه به نتایج پس از جنگ و شکست تروا می‌پردازه. مخصوصا به اثری که این شکست روی زنان داره. در واقع اوریپید با این نمایشنامه به جنگ انتقاد میکنه و فریاد میزنه که جنگ هیچ برنده واقعی نداره.
با شکست تروا سرزمین به آتش کشیده و نابود شد، مردان و سربازان کشته شدند و زنان که بازمانده جنگ بودند به اسارت گرفته شدند چون "تو تنها یک زنی، ما هر کار بخواهیم می‌توانیم با تو بکنیم." مثلا کاساندرا (شاهزاده تروا) به اجبار به پیوند با آگاممنون (برادر منلائوس) محکوم شد که نتیجه‌ی این پیوند رو در نمایشنامه "الکترا" خواهیم خواند.
با وجود اینکه این زنان توانایی مقابله با سرنوشت خود و فرار از بردگی و اسارت ندارند اما همچنان "زنی را که از عشق کهنه دست می‌شوید و باز آسان دل می‌بازد را خوار می‌دارند."
زنانی که مرگ خانواده‌شون رو به چشم دیدند و به زودی مجبور به ترک سرزمین و بردگی میشن، در مقابل هلن قرار می‌گیرند و اون رو مقصر این شکست و نگون‌بختی می‌دونند. اما هلن از خودش دفاع میکنه که خدایان برپاکننده این جنگ هستند. خدایانی که با خودخواهی خودشون، جون انسان‌ها رو بازیچه قرار می‌دهند.
اوایل نمایشنامه، پوزئیدون میگه که:
《من از تروا می‌روم، این شهر بنام و محراب‌هایم را اینجا رها می‌کنم. زیرا آن‌گاه که فلاکت شهری را در برمی‌گیرد، دین سست می‌گردد و خدایان را پاس نمی‌دارند.》
و آتنا هم چون با وجود کمک‌هاش یونانیان بهش احترام نذاشتند، تصمیم می‌گیره در راه بازگشت یونانیان رو نابود کنه. که اشاره به همین منفعت‌طلبی و خودخواهی خدایان داره و در جایی دیگه، هکوب تمام پیش‌کشی و مراسم‌های مذهبی رو پوچ می‌دونه چون حتی خدایان هم به یاری اون‌ها نیومدند که در واقع اوریپید داره باورهای مذهبی زمانه خودش رو نقد میکنه.


《آندروماک: او مُرده است. اما او كه مرده روزگارش بهتر از من است كه هنوز زنده‌ام.
هكوب: نه فرزند، اينكه می‌گويی خطاست. زندگی و مرگ يكسان نيستند. در زندگی اميد هست، مرگ سراسر نیستی‌ست.
آندروماک: گوش كن مادر، بگذار كمی با تو بگومگو كنم، دست كم آن اندازه كه تو را آرام كند. در چشم من، مرگ و هرگز زاده نشدن يكسان است، و مرگ به مراتب از زندگی سرشار از رنج بهتراست.》

[Cynda Reads · Rating 5 out of 5]

Newer Review here with Older Review below.

When a GR friend said she wanted to read, I took the opportunity to reread. She and I plan to read literary works that inform our understandings of The Illiad. This time I read a prose version posted online by MIT. This time I watched this transitional traditional ritual drama enacted outdoors outdoors by UNC-Asheville which was posted on YouTube.

Development of Character. Hecuba is an imperfect yet effective crone. She does not always perceive correctly yet she encourages appropriately, helping her daughter and daughter-in-law to leave Troy with as much dignity as possible. Although Euripides wrote a play that still has strong roots in traditional ritual drama, he wrote lines that tells his audience something of interior landscapes of women, all. The watching of an enactment presented outside makes clear the obstacles Euripides faced in getting his audience to hear anything more than the basic plot to be understood, yet he was successful.
_________

Older Review here.

Many years ago when I was young, I watched the movie version of The Trojan Women (1971). All I understood at the time was that Hecuba stayed strong enough to help the other Trojan women and that Helen was alluring enough to send men to war and to send women into despair and to their destruction. I was horrified. I felt as though I had watched the most horrifying movie ever.

Decades later, I have started to re-read and to read ancient works. This time I both read the play and re-watched the 1971 movie on Vimeo. As to be expected, I have a completely different understanding of the play. Instead of horror, I see literary greatness. All the elements I would hope to see in such a situation-- destruction of a city, the re-allocation of women, the wisdom of a crone, the insanity that can follow crisis, the despair that follows, new awareness and decisions, and the presence of the prime mover of the previous, current, and future action--all take place in a compact and coherent form. Everything I would want to know is known/shown in a short time.

When I first looked over the text prior to reading it, it seemed as though there were long speeches, orations, choruses. Once I both started reading and watching the play, I came to a different, better understanding. Sure some of the speeches were long, yet in the movie moves well enough. Crazed Cassandra moves around, almost as through she is trying to get away from the future assigned her. Andromache stands with her child, cuddles her child, has something of an argument with Hecuba. Helen of Troy moves in a dramatic fashion, as she does a dance of sorts around Menelaus as she works him. The chorus seemed as though it might be the challenging part to read, the chorus talking for for a page or two at a time. While the text reads as straight text and could be delivered that way, the 1971 movie version depicts the chorus as Trojan widows who are a asking questions, remembering, fearing, commenting as a group of despairing women might.

Dithyrambic Chorus. I am reading Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, the Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others. In the introductory note to Erra and Ishum, I read that this type of chorus was a traditional ritual drama that evolved into the operas and plays we are more familiar with and that Euripides was an innovator in this change. Appreciating the Connections.

Casting Comments. The main actors of US American, French, and English backgrounds made the movie mainstream and accessible to Western audiences. The women of the chorus appeared authentic enough, varying from fair to dark and with voices that that either used or assumed a non-Western, perhaps Mediterrean, cadence. Adding a strong and important bit of authenticity, Irene Papas who is herself Greek herself plays the Greek Helen of Troy, previously the queen of Sparta and a Hellene. By casting as Helen an actor who looks like a stereotypical dark beauty Greek, the movie acquires 1. a more Mediterrean feel and 2. an otherness in comparison to the rest of the cast, particularly the actors of the main characters. This casting provides an authencity that I have yet to find in later movie depictions.

I will be reading more Euripides plays.

I read with GR group: NonFiction Side reads.

I read from Euripides III: Hecuba / Andromache / The Trojan Women / Ion

[Debbie Zapata · Rating 5 out of 5]

Wow. This play was stunning. I have so many things I would like to say and yet none of my words or even my thoughts feel sufficient.

The Trojan War is over. The women of the city are waiting to hear which of the Greek warriors will be each one's new master, for they are all going into slavery as prizes of war. Even King Priam's wife Hecuba, the mother of Paris, the man who started it all by bringing Helen to Troy. The play revolves around the women's confusion, their pain, their attempts to understand why their lives have been shattered and how they will face their tragic future.

I remember reading The Odyssey in early school years, but I never managed The Iliad, so I was only vaguely familiar with the story of the war itself. Now I want to go back to Homer, because Odysseus is shown as much more of an utter creep than I ever realized. He was the one who suggested that the young son of Hector, the Trojan prince, be taken from his mother Andromache and thrown to his death from a tower of the city. The saddest part of the play was when the child's body is brought to his grandmother Hecuba so that she can prepare his little body for burial on his father's war shield.

I was close to tears many times: this is an intense work, full of raw emotion that any woman with a heart can feel and understand. On one hand I think seeing a performance of The Trojan Women would be amazing, but I think I would be overwhelmed and not be able to see the stage for my tears. So I will simply re-read it someday. I'm also going to read more Euripides. I have a small volume of three other works of his, but I need to wait a bit before starting with them. I want to let this piece settle first.

Ancient Greek myths and legends are something nearly everyone is familiar with, even without in-depth study. I know some names and stories, get mixed up with many others, and remember reading them much more often in my younger days than I have as an adult. I plan to change that. I want to revisit the marvelous confusion of the Greek myths, because this play has reminded me of the fascination they used to have for me. I want to see what I will discover in them at this point in my life.

[نازنین · Rating 3 out of 5]

« و آن‌قدر اشک خواهم ریخت تا در فراموشی غرقه شوم.»

[Amaranta · Rating 5 out of 5]

“È pazzo l'uomo che si rallegra pensando che gli andrà sempre bene: la fortuna con i suoi ghiribizzi è come un individuo capriccioso, salta di qua e di là †: e nessuno ne gode in perpetuo i favori” .
Rileggo questo testo di Euripide per prepararmi alle rappresentazioni del teatro di Siracusa di quest’anno. Insieme ad Elena è una delle tragedie scelte quest’anno. Leggerle, sentirle nel silenzio della stanza è diverso che vederle su una scena immensa, quale è quella di Siracusa, con gli alberi dietro e in fondo il mare blu che luccica. Ed è lo stesso mare che si porterà via le troiane, le donne rimaste vive dopo la caduta di Troia. Qual è il destino di queste donne cadute in mano nemiche e destinate a vedere nuove spiagge? Le donne di Euripide sono fiere, sopportano a testa alta la loro nuova condizione, come Cassandra, pronta a sposare Agamennone, a rinunciare alla sua verginità donata al dio Apollo, per uccidere il suo nemico e vendicare così se stessa e la sua gente; Ecuba che piange i suoi morti, Priamo ucciso sotto i suoi stessi occhi, suo figlio Ettore, eroe della battaglia e il nipotino Astianatte, sacrificato dall’odio acheo e sepolto nello scudo del padre; Andromaca, donna senza alcuna speranza ormai.
Che cosa è rimasto alle donne se non piangere i loro morti? Gridare nella sciagura il loro destino crudele? Piangere una città, orgoglio del loro popolo, adesso distrutta dall’odio?
L’incipit è splendido, con l’entrata di Poseidone in scena “ Io, Poseidone, ho lasciato le profondità dell'Egeo salmastro, dove i cori delle Nereidi intrecciano, in cerchio, bellissime danze” .
Sono le donne a pagare una guerra per una donna, Elena, che tenta con ogni raggiro di salvarsi la vita.
Quello che colpisce è la fede di queste donne nelle divinità, sapere che prima o poi saranno vendicate come è giusto, la loro capacità di sopportazione, il loro sapersi schiave adesso mentre prima erano regine onorate e venerate nel lusso.
E’ il dramma delle donne, derise, vilipese, ma che affrontano il loro dolore con dignità. Sono le donne di eroi e come tali non possono agire diversamente.
Donne costrette a partire. Penso all’attualità di questa tragedia, a quante donne oggi, vivono ancora questa condizione di dolore, di sottomissione, indipendentemente da una guerra e che ancora oggi esiste. La forza di quelle parole dopo 2000 anni mi sconcerta, sempre.
Il coro parla di aurora dalle bianche ali e mi viene in mente quella di Omero “dalle rosee dita”, un’immagine che sempre ho trovato bellissima.
“Stolto il mortale che distrugge città: chi condanna alla desolazione i templi e le tombe, asilo dei morti, è destinato a perire malamente”

[Evripidis Gousiaris · Rating 5 out of 5]

Έχουμε ακούσει την λέξη "τραγωδία" και "δράμα" τόσες πολλές φορές στην ζωή μας, κυρίως στον προφορικό λόγο προκειμένου να υπερβάλουμε για μια κατάσταση, που έχουμε σχεδόν παρερμηνεύσει και ξεχάσει την βαρύτητα της λέξης.
ΤΡΑΓΩΔΙΑ και ΔΡΑΜΑ λοιπόν το παρόν βιβλίο με την κανονική σημασία των λέξεων. Σε μια πασίγνωστη ιστορία όπου συνδέεται με θάρρος, ανδρεία και ηρωικές φιγούρες, ο Ευριπίδης έρχεται και προσθέτει θρήνο, δάκρυ και μοιρολόι. Γυρνάει αριστουργηματικά το νόμισμα και σου δείχνει και την άλλη μεριά. Την μεριά με τα δεινά, τον θάνατο και τον πόνο. Γιατί το συγκεκριμένο νόμισμα είναι ο Πόλεμος και η μία του μεριά θα έχει πάντα ηττημένους.

[Javad Azadi · Rating 3 out of 5]

چیز خاصی برای گفتن ندارم. فکر میکردم خیلی جذاب‌تر باشه برام.

اینم بگم که تو ترجمه چنین آثاری، وقتی این همه اسم اشخاص داریم، به نظرم بهتره فقط به ذکر اسم انگلیسی و لاتین‌شون اکتفا نشه و یه توضیح هرچند کوتاهی براش نوشته شه. بالاخره هرکسی تا یه حدی با اساطیر یونان آشناییت داره و قطعا یه چیزهایی رو نمیدونه یا یادش رفته. و اینکه برای خداها و... تلفظ فرانسوی اسامی (مثلا آخیلئوس بجای آشیل) انتخاب شده بود که برای من جالب نبود.

[Mahdi · Rating 4 out of 5]

من نمی‌دونم تو یونان باستان خود نویسنده‌ها موضوع نمایشنامه رو انتخاب می‌کردند و یا هر دوره در مسابقه‌ای که برگزار می‌شده یک موضوع خاص پیشنهاد می‌شده که بقیه درباره‌اش بنویسند؛ اما به هر حال جالبه که هر نمایشنامه‌ای که از اوریپید من می‌شناسم، نمایشنامه‌ای درباره‌ی زن‌ها و خلق و خوی اونهاست... و جالب‌ترش اینه که ما با یک مردی طرفیم که تو جامعه‌ی 2000 سال پیش یونان این نمایشنامه‌ها رو نوشته... تو دوره‌ای که فیلسوف‌ها و مردم یونانی معتقد بودند برای رسیدن به کمال، مرد (به عنوان یک کامل) باید با یک مرد (به عنوان یک کامل دیگر) ازدواج کنه و زن‌ها به عنوان یک ناقص در کنار بردگان از بسیاری از حقوق برخوردار نبودند.

[Scott Sebastian · Rating 4 out of 5]

"O vain is man,
Who glorieth in his joy and has no fears:
While to and fro the chances of the years
Dance like an idiot in the wind! And none
By any strength has his own fortune won."

[sarah]

The Women of Troy is a play written 2 and a half thousand years ago, but it still has relevance today. This was required reading for me but I'm definitely not mad about it, and ended up pleasantly surprised.

Set between The Iliad and The Odyssey, Euripides grants a voice to the women caught in the crossfires of the trojan war and the subsequent greek victory. It casts war and violence in a negative light, unusual for the time at which it was written.

Considering how long ago this was written, I was expecting it to be inaccessible and honestly a bit dry. So I was really pleasantly surprised by how beautiful the writing was and how many lines I underlined, not just for academic purposes- but just to go back to and read later.

I don't know if I would necessarily recommend this for pure enjoyment purposes, but if you enjoy ancient greek history and mythology this could be worth the read! It is super short and quick to fly through.

[Diana · Rating 5 out of 5]

موقع مرگم اینو حتما میگم بعد میمیرم:
این پیکر پیرم بر زمین فرو می‌افتد و من با این دستم بر این خاک می‌کوبم.

[Ali · Rating 4 out of 5]

"چگونه زار نگریم در این غمان که مراست
که اینک نه میهنی بر جای و نه سَروَری، نه فرزندی
دریغا، شوکت و مکنت آبایی که سالیان گرد آمده بود
پیش چشم ما به دم زدنی ناچیز شد.
هیهات هیهات
گفتنی‌ها کدام و ناگفتنی کدام است؟"

داستان زنان تروا بعد از پایان جنگ تروا شروع میشه. تروا ویران، مردان، پیران و کودکان کشته و تنها زنان تروا برجای مانند. زنانی که در خیمه خود به انتظار بردگی و زبونی خود شکوه می‌کنند و در غم عزیزان خود می‌گریند.

زنان تروا رو میشه یه مکمل عالی برای کتاب ایلیاد در نظر گرفت. اگه توی اون کتاب شرح دلاوری‌ها و جنگ‌آوری‌ها رو می‌خونیم، اینجا به بخش دیگه جنگ میریم. این تراژی ناگفته‌های جنگ تروا رو میگه. قراره از کشته‌ها، بی‌رحمی‌ها و خوارشدن‌ها بخونیم. از نابودی و به آتش کشیدن شهر، از کشتن یه کودک برای اینکه پدرش تروایی بوده بخونیم.

در کل که صحنه‌های فوق‌العاده زیاد داره و به‌شدت باارزشه. توصیه می‌کنم حتما با ترجمه جناب کوثری بخونید. درخشانه.

[Rita · Rating 5 out of 5]

Absolutamente rendida a estas tragédias gregas.

[رزی - Woman, Life, Liberty · Rating 4 out of 5]

مردان تروا به مرگ محکوم شدند
و زنان تروا به زندگی.

در چشم من مردگان چنان‌اند که گویی هرگز به دنیا نیامده‌اند.
مردن برای من بسی برتر از زیستن به اندوه و عذاب است.
چرا که مردگان را اندوهی نیست
و از کشاکش دوران برکنارند.
لیک آن کس که از بام نیک‌بختی به کام سختی می‌اوفتد
دلی آماج افسوس دارد و یاد ایام کامکاری قرارش می‌رباید.

جنگ از نگاه زنان بازمانده! زنانی که مثل اشیای غنیمت هرکدوم به یک فاتح سپرده می‌شن تا کنیز و هم‌بستر اونا بشن. جنگ پس از فتح تروا تموم نشده و تا زمانی که هرکس اونجا بوده زنده‌ست، ادامه داره. اوریپید باز من رو شگفت‌زده کرد که دو هزار و پونصد سال پیش چه مضامینی در آثار ادبی وجود داشته. ادامه‌ی داستان دو شخصیت برجسته‌ی نمایشنامه - یعنی هکوبه و آندروماخه - در نمایشنامه‌هایی با همین عناوین از اوریپید موجوده. اینجا زنان همچنان شخصیت‌های قدرتمندی نیستند، ولی برجسته‌اند. به‌ویژه کاساندرایی که قول انتقام می‌ده و البته که کسی به حرفش اهمیت نمی‌ده - اون فقط یه زنه.

کاساندرا: همانا من خونبارترین عروسی خواهم شد
که آگاممنون نامدار به حجله برده است.
بدان که خواهمش کشت
و دودمانش به آتش خواهم کشید؛
آن‌چنان که دودمان من تباه کرد.
و کین پدر و برادر از او بازخواهم ستاند.

البته در مقایسه با باقی آثار اوریپید، کسل‌کننده‌تر بود چون تقریبا تمام محتوای نمایشنامه مویه‌ها و ضجه‌های زنان بود که از یه جایی به بعد کمی تکراری می‌شد و جای داستان رو می‌گرفت.


نقاشی «زنان تروا» اثر چارلز اس. ریکتس

[Anisha Inkspill · Rating 4 out of 5]

Troy has been defeated, the Greeks have won, and of the Trojans only some women survive, all else are dead.

Reading this for the second time, was as hard as the first. Through Hecuba’s agony, Euripides shows the senselessness of war. This is an unsettling read and not a happy play, it’s full of forlorn agonising grief, which is briefly paused with Cassandra and later Helen.

Injustices and the mistreatments of the surviving women are voiced through Hecuba. These women, in the hands of the enemy, have also lost all autonomy to their lives, the Greeks do not see them as human but pieces of property to be divided between themselves; and for Hecuba, there is much more for her to bear before the play ends.

TW & A very young child is murdered by the Greeks, they are worried that Astyanax will grow up get vengeance. Hecuba (bravely) retorts that this is not the action of a civilised society.

Reading this is not easy but I also found it cathartic. What stands out for me is the women’s strength. They have been through so much and yet they are not broken.

[Sense of History]

This play by Euripides dates from the later period of his work, performed in 415 BCE. It depicts yet another episode from the Trojan War, in this case from after the capture and destruction of the city by the Greeks. Perhaps the most historically significant fact is that Euripides here (once again) adopts the female perspective, that of the Trojan women whose fathers, husbands, and sons have been slaughtered and who are about to be shipped to Greece as slaves. I discuss this further in my review on my general Goodreads account: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show....

[Claire · Rating 5 out of 5]

As a theater major, I've spent an enormous chunk of my life reading and analyzing classical drama. There was a time when I could have broken down for you in great detail the stylistic differences between the three great Greek dramatists (Aeschylus, Sophocles & Euripides) and the great Greek comic playwright Aristophanes. But since I no longer have to, I won't.

I will say that I never took to the other two like I did to Euripides. He was the latest of the three, a product of an evolving social concept of the role of theater - instead of making proclamations at the audience, characters had conversations with each other. The language is simpler and less formal, a forerunner to modern drama, and the characters far more human.

I fell in love with this play because of how beautifully it depicts loss and grief. The characters are so vibrant and real, and their suffering so clearly depicted, that you forget you're reading something that's like 2500 years old. Even in the crappiest of translations, you feel like these characters are real people that you know, and your heart aches for the horrific things that have happened to them and the bleak gray future ahead of them.

The best moment of the whole play to me is a very brief exchange between Hecuba (former queen of Troy, whose husband and sons have all been murdered) and Menelaus (husband of Helen and one of the two Greek kings who led the war against Troy). They are bitter, violent enemies who hate each other and each other's people with a passion that will have consequences for generations. But in this one fleeting moment when Menelaus passes Hecuba on his way back to his ship, dragging Helen with her, they have a moment of connection in their anger towards Helen, who started the whole thing and is responsible for setting in motion the events that led to a ten-year siege and thousands of deaths on both sides. In that moment, as they realize that they both hate Helen more than each other, there's just a sliver of a hint at compassion on both sides, a realization that even though they're enemies, they understand the other's pain in a way that no one else does. Then the moment passes and they're enemies again, but that one moment changes the entire play for me. Gorgeous, heartbreaking stuff.

I also recommend "Medea", "The Bacchae" and "Iphegenia at Aulis."

[Cemre · Rating 3 out of 5]

Medea okumaktan çok çok keyif aldığım bir oyundur; ama Medea haricinde hiç Euripides okumamıştım. 2016 yılının son ayına girmişken bu yıl başka Euripidesler de okuyayım istedim.

Medea kadar olmasa da Troyalı Kadınları da severek okudum.

Oyun, isminden de tahmin edilebileceği üzere "Truva/Troya Savaşı"ndan sonrasını anlatıyor. Savaştan sonra neredeyse tüm Troyalı erkekler ölmüş, geriye kalan kadınlar ve çocuklar ise birer tutsak olarak alınıyorlar. Bizler kitap boyunca o kadınların arasında bulunan Troya Kraliçesi, Kral Priamos'un karısı, Hector'un annesi Hekabe'yi, Hekabe'nin kızı Kassandra'yı, Hector'un karısı Andromakhe'yi ve en sonunda da savaşın müsebbibi Helena'yı okuyoruz.

Sinemada da edebiyatta da genelde hep Agamemnon'u, Paris'i, Hector'u, onların kahramanlıklarını, acımasızlıklarını okuyoruz ya da izliyoruz. Kadınlar -belki de Helen dışındaki kadınlar demek daha doğru- ise birer muamma. Euripides sayesinde o dönemin kadınlarını az da olsa tanıma fırsatı elde ediyoruz. Savaşın bu kadınlarüzeirndeki acımasız etkilerini, kadının insan değil de nasıl "ganimet" olarak addedilip "mal" haline getirildiğini okuyoruz. Ayrıca savaşların esasen bir galibin olmadığını da bir kere daha anlıyoruz. Poseidon'un da dediği gibi,
"Aptaldır kentleri ve tapınakları yerle bir eden,
Mezarları, kutsal yerleri yıkan, aptaldır.
Çünkü yakıp yıkan, kendi yıkımını hazırlamaktadır" (s. 8).

Çeviri Yılmaz Onay'a ait. Bence başarılı bir çeviri.

Kitabın sonunda dipnotlar ve yazarın notları var. Sürekli arkaya dönüp bunları okumak oyundan kopmaya sebep olabiliyor ne yazık ki.

Ayrıca oyun ile ilgili Joachim Latacz'ın incelemesine de yer verilmiş.

Bir de Yılmaz Onay, oyunun sonunda oyunun daha kolay, daha anlaşılır bir şekilde sahnelenebilmesi adına bazı sahnelerin yerlerini değiştirip bazı eklemeler ve çıkarmalar yaparak oyuna dair bir "dramaturji denemesi"ne yer vermiş.