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Reading the Bible with Rene Girard: Conversations with Steven E. Berry
When René Girard introduced the Bible back into conversation with anthropology in 1978, it was all a bit scandalous. Here, for the first time, Girard weaves his life story and that of the mimetic theory with his own faith reflections and interpretation of Scripture. These interviews are a great introduction for the person new to Girard's writings and will delight Girardian scholars and aficionados alike.
181 pages, Kindle Edition
Published March 14, 2016
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Displaying 1 - 12 of 12 reviews
March 18, 2025
The fact underlying our Faith is persecuted, crucified goodness.
Society NEEDS its victims. It needs them to provide a vent for its everyday rages and frustrations: when punishment is deemed expedient, the legal system clears the way there. Every human sacrifice - or its religious symbol - shows that.
Such are the primitive roots of religion.
Rage and frustration often choke us in our daily lives. The solution for so many of us? Find a victim. Such thought informs the Bible, says Rene Girard. In it, Jesus is the one. The hapless Victim informs all literature too.
Beyond that, Girard says human society is MIMETIC.
We Imitate the cool movers and shakers of our immediate crowd, or, by extension, witness the way our chosen media portrays our leaders. And a fire once kindled MUST be extinguished. We NEED that new gadget, that new book, even a lover like our friend has!
And we NEED our victims.
A Need + A Role Model = Imitation. Checkmate. We're caught dead to rights.
It goes on and on. And T.S. Eliot writes, mocking a French Grammar,
Et les soldats faisaient la haie?
Ils la faisaient!
If a victim must be found, never mind that it's only a scapegoat! And all of us onlookers have to fall into line. As children do, who, as Freud says, punish a toy that displeases them by putting it into “da Fort.”
Isolation!
So what excuse do WE have?
We’re all mimetic.
You see where I'm coming from. The GOOD news is that Girard and I have our childhood faith as our fall-back from such a traumatic vision. And you may have that too.
Do you know that one of the main reasons C.S. Lewis became a Christian was because he saw the ancient rites of human sacrifice as PROOF for the story of God's Son?
For that reason He became so real for him. His WWI Trauma made it so.
Think about it.
And it's like that for ALL of us victims.
Folks, I know I overplay my cards, but this time I'm not bluffing -
READ this book! It's not expensive, and -
You owe it to YOURSELF to open your eyes by reading it.
So, if you're a bit Victimized -
Girard was TOO, and gave it up to God as his own personal Sacrifice!
Society NEEDS its victims. It needs them to provide a vent for its everyday rages and frustrations: when punishment is deemed expedient, the legal system clears the way there. Every human sacrifice - or its religious symbol - shows that.
Such are the primitive roots of religion.
Rage and frustration often choke us in our daily lives. The solution for so many of us? Find a victim. Such thought informs the Bible, says Rene Girard. In it, Jesus is the one. The hapless Victim informs all literature too.
Beyond that, Girard says human society is MIMETIC.
We Imitate the cool movers and shakers of our immediate crowd, or, by extension, witness the way our chosen media portrays our leaders. And a fire once kindled MUST be extinguished. We NEED that new gadget, that new book, even a lover like our friend has!
And we NEED our victims.
A Need + A Role Model = Imitation. Checkmate. We're caught dead to rights.
It goes on and on. And T.S. Eliot writes, mocking a French Grammar,
Et les soldats faisaient la haie?
Ils la faisaient!
If a victim must be found, never mind that it's only a scapegoat! And all of us onlookers have to fall into line. As children do, who, as Freud says, punish a toy that displeases them by putting it into “da Fort.”
Isolation!
So what excuse do WE have?
We’re all mimetic.
You see where I'm coming from. The GOOD news is that Girard and I have our childhood faith as our fall-back from such a traumatic vision. And you may have that too.
Do you know that one of the main reasons C.S. Lewis became a Christian was because he saw the ancient rites of human sacrifice as PROOF for the story of God's Son?
For that reason He became so real for him. His WWI Trauma made it so.
Think about it.
And it's like that for ALL of us victims.
Folks, I know I overplay my cards, but this time I'm not bluffing -
READ this book! It's not expensive, and -
You owe it to YOURSELF to open your eyes by reading it.
So, if you're a bit Victimized -
Girard was TOO, and gave it up to God as his own personal Sacrifice!
October 8, 2016
Till the very end of his life on earth, René analyzed our world, always realizing more completely how his insights were not his original ones, but those given to us by the judeochristian revelation. These last conversations are far ranging, They are simpler to read and go further in scope than all he has written and said before, while it is in continuity with everything that preceded. There is something very moving in these conversations. The first book in a conversation format was "Things Hidden..." where the excitement of discovery was overwhelmingly present among the three authors, including his brilliant friend, the psychologist Jean-Marie Oughourlian. This last and final conversation bears the hallmark of friendship, clarity, and the tone of the prophets of the Hebraic Bible: the choice is ours: imitating each other all the way down to mutual destruction, or imitating the compassionate God before it is too late for us. Many thanks to Michael and and Steve for they work. It makes you feel close to a very exceptional man and share his spirit.
July 30, 2022
Girardinian anthropological analysis can be really illuminating, especially when applied to the texts of the Bible as is done in this book. It has the potential to really transform some conventional understandings of what the Christian message is/can be about. That said, there is just a bit too much unnecessary, intellectually lazy, knee-jerk conservatism in this book, which I find really off-putting.
January 18, 2022
This conversation Adds to previous works by Girard, the message becomes clearer and Light is being shed on the present state of the world
June 3, 2016
As this was my first foray into Girardian thinking I had to read this book twice back to back to grasp the central tenets. Though I will say that from what I've heard about the inaccessibility of his more academic books, I found this one highly accessible.
His disclaimer is that he writes and speaks from the perspective of anthropology and certainly provides compelling insights into human culture and how this can be seen through the lens of Scripture.
My only critique would be that his theory overreaches in its attempts to explain Jesus, His mission, the Cross, and the Kingdom, without making clear reference to theology. For example he speaks about Jesus' hope that the Kingdom could be established without His death but instead by His followers acting in line with the Kingdom way of nonviolence and forgiveness. Obviously there is much to be said here on an adequate theology of the Cross which stands over and against his purely anthropological model, but on the whole I can recommend this book as a solid introduction to Girardian thinking.
His disclaimer is that he writes and speaks from the perspective of anthropology and certainly provides compelling insights into human culture and how this can be seen through the lens of Scripture.
My only critique would be that his theory overreaches in its attempts to explain Jesus, His mission, the Cross, and the Kingdom, without making clear reference to theology. For example he speaks about Jesus' hope that the Kingdom could be established without His death but instead by His followers acting in line with the Kingdom way of nonviolence and forgiveness. Obviously there is much to be said here on an adequate theology of the Cross which stands over and against his purely anthropological model, but on the whole I can recommend this book as a solid introduction to Girardian thinking.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
September 4, 2023
Although I gave this book four stars I would not, actually, recommend reading the Bible with Rene Girard, at least not with him as your primary guide. But a lot of people are talking about Girard and mimetic theory these days, and someone recommended this book to introduce me to Girard, and it did serve that purpose well.
Some Girard scholar can contradict me here, but essentially,
Mimetic theory: We naturally imitate other people, and in fact our desires are formed by imitating other people. (The modern advertising industry would seem to agree.) But when we imitate another, we become rivals to that other, which tends to eventually result in violence. This violence is prevented by...
Scapegoat mechanism: ...over time, our attention is turned away from desiring the same object and toward all hating the same enemy, probably a common rival. He becomes the scapegoat, and by sacrificing him, peace is restored in the community, at least for a time.
Archaic religions, which are filled with sacrifice, function this way. Christianity, though, turns the whole thing on its head, because Christianity reveals to you what is actually going on, reveals to you that the victim (with Jesus as the archetype) is actually innocent.
Anyway, beginning of the book, introduces mimetic theory, applies it to works of fiction and human experience, I quite liked that part. Some great analysis here too - e.g., we think that as we all become more equal, we will become happier. But in fact that just increases rivalry.
Middle of the book, really brings in the Bible... and he has a very anthropological view of the Bible. He does believe in God, in Jesus, believes some of the words in the Bible were inspired by God, but he also thinks the Bible is really a story about the move from archaic religion into, I guess we could say, modern Christianity. If you're a Protestant concerned about stuff like inerrancy, you'll find plenty here to make you uncomfortable. Also trying to interpret nigh every Biblical story through mimetic theory is sometimes quite a stretch.
But at the end... you know, I appreciated his sense that Christianity is a more radical religion than we usually allow it to be. Most of us do not really accept Jesus' absolute call to nonviolence. Most of us really do not want to be hated outcasts in our communities, although plenty of scripture sure seems to think that the more fully we live the Christian life the more despised we will be. Also I appreciated his comments about the power of the mob (and he wrote all this stuff before the internet!), and how Jesus can free you from the mob. (It's hard to be the person who casts the FIRST stone. It's relatively easy to be the person who casts the tenth.)
Finally, a few snips I tweeted today, all from the second half of the book.
"Even today, Christians cannot accept it. For instance, Christians think it's absolutely essential to turn the poor into the rich. The Gospel never said that."
"So what does Peter do? He wants to show he's one of them, so the only way to show you're part of a crowd is to join in the scapegoating. If I have the same enemy you have, then I'm one of you."
"We cannot resist the mimetic contagion. When you're in a crowd, you become literally possessed by the crowd. The Gospels, from an anthropological viewpoint, show you that the crowd spirit is all-powerful, that only Jesus can conquer it. They show that the crowd or the mob is a real power on earth, since it can conquer even Peter, which is pretty disturbing if you regard this also as a prophecy of what will happen at the last day, which it may well be, because right now that's what we're seeing."
"This is the illusion of modernist circles: that if you do away with differences, you create peace. In reality, however, the lack of differentiation is the fighting twins; the less difference there is in the world, the more violence increases."
"Another thing one should talk about is that all modern movements are ultimately derived from Christianity. They are a refusal of Christianity that tries to use the Christian founder against itself. But ultimately they are full of Christian ideas gone mad, as Chesterton said."
Some Girard scholar can contradict me here, but essentially,
Mimetic theory: We naturally imitate other people, and in fact our desires are formed by imitating other people. (The modern advertising industry would seem to agree.) But when we imitate another, we become rivals to that other, which tends to eventually result in violence. This violence is prevented by...
Scapegoat mechanism: ...over time, our attention is turned away from desiring the same object and toward all hating the same enemy, probably a common rival. He becomes the scapegoat, and by sacrificing him, peace is restored in the community, at least for a time.
Archaic religions, which are filled with sacrifice, function this way. Christianity, though, turns the whole thing on its head, because Christianity reveals to you what is actually going on, reveals to you that the victim (with Jesus as the archetype) is actually innocent.
Anyway, beginning of the book, introduces mimetic theory, applies it to works of fiction and human experience, I quite liked that part. Some great analysis here too - e.g., we think that as we all become more equal, we will become happier. But in fact that just increases rivalry.
Middle of the book, really brings in the Bible... and he has a very anthropological view of the Bible. He does believe in God, in Jesus, believes some of the words in the Bible were inspired by God, but he also thinks the Bible is really a story about the move from archaic religion into, I guess we could say, modern Christianity. If you're a Protestant concerned about stuff like inerrancy, you'll find plenty here to make you uncomfortable. Also trying to interpret nigh every Biblical story through mimetic theory is sometimes quite a stretch.
But at the end... you know, I appreciated his sense that Christianity is a more radical religion than we usually allow it to be. Most of us do not really accept Jesus' absolute call to nonviolence. Most of us really do not want to be hated outcasts in our communities, although plenty of scripture sure seems to think that the more fully we live the Christian life the more despised we will be. Also I appreciated his comments about the power of the mob (and he wrote all this stuff before the internet!), and how Jesus can free you from the mob. (It's hard to be the person who casts the FIRST stone. It's relatively easy to be the person who casts the tenth.)
Finally, a few snips I tweeted today, all from the second half of the book.
"Even today, Christians cannot accept it. For instance, Christians think it's absolutely essential to turn the poor into the rich. The Gospel never said that."
"So what does Peter do? He wants to show he's one of them, so the only way to show you're part of a crowd is to join in the scapegoating. If I have the same enemy you have, then I'm one of you."
"We cannot resist the mimetic contagion. When you're in a crowd, you become literally possessed by the crowd. The Gospels, from an anthropological viewpoint, show you that the crowd spirit is all-powerful, that only Jesus can conquer it. They show that the crowd or the mob is a real power on earth, since it can conquer even Peter, which is pretty disturbing if you regard this also as a prophecy of what will happen at the last day, which it may well be, because right now that's what we're seeing."
"This is the illusion of modernist circles: that if you do away with differences, you create peace. In reality, however, the lack of differentiation is the fighting twins; the less difference there is in the world, the more violence increases."
"Another thing one should talk about is that all modern movements are ultimately derived from Christianity. They are a refusal of Christianity that tries to use the Christian founder against itself. But ultimately they are full of Christian ideas gone mad, as Chesterton said."
March 23, 2020
Intriguing
I enjoyed the format of this book which offered focused introduction to some of the thoughts of RG without overwhelming me. I shall use this as a springboard for more in depth insights after reading his biography.
I enjoyed the format of this book which offered focused introduction to some of the thoughts of RG without overwhelming me. I shall use this as a springboard for more in depth insights after reading his biography.
August 6, 2018
Dense but awesome.
March 5, 2020
Memetic...a very interesting concept but having a challenge to make it my own and know how to see the memetic reality and really feel like i'm integrating it in my life.
July 25, 2025
The best book for evangelical/fundamentalist. You know the Bible so you can focus on Girard’s ideas. It was much easier to flow along and grow deeper in my understanding. Will be recommending.
July 21, 2016
Mind Blown
This book is a primer to mimetic theory, offering a peek into the world of Rene Girard and how he came to recognize mimetic desire in the human animal. The main focus of the author (and the conversation therein) is how mimetic theory can and should be applied to a reading of the bible. Seeing humanity and history in this new light will change the way I read, not only the bible, but every text from now on.
This book is a primer to mimetic theory, offering a peek into the world of Rene Girard and how he came to recognize mimetic desire in the human animal. The main focus of the author (and the conversation therein) is how mimetic theory can and should be applied to a reading of the bible. Seeing humanity and history in this new light will change the way I read, not only the bible, but every text from now on.
May 9, 2025
It's difficult for me to evaluate how well this works as an accessible primer to Girard's thought now twenty-some-odd years in and having read most of his works (not that anyone's asked me to do that). That said, it's a good and fairly readable refresher to walk you through the nuances that are difficult to keep hold of. There were some little nuggets he drops in conversational passing for which I really wanted more commentary (e.g., his thoughts on psychoanalysis).
Displaying 1 - 12 of 12 reviews