The Mormon Doctrine of Deity: The Roberts-Van Der Donckt Discussion

by B.H. Roberts

Excerpt from as Paul tells, "in the express image of his [the Father's] person" —so, too, the Father God is a man of immortal tabernacle, glorified and for as the Son is, so also is the Father, a personage of tabernacle, of flesh and of bone as tangible as man's, as tangible as Christ's most glorious, resurrected body. THE ONENESS OF GOD. There are some expressions of scripture to consider which speak of the "oneness" of God. Speaking of the question which agitated the early Christian Church about eating meats which had been offered to idols, Piul "We know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one." Moreover, Jesus himself made this strange remark —that is, strange until one understands "I and my Father are one;" and so much one are they that he "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself; but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me."t Consequently our philosophers, especially those who lived when the present Christian creeds concerning God were forming, thought that by some leger- deirain or other they must make the three Gods—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost—just one person—one being; and therefore they set their wits at work to perform the operation. Let us seek out some reasonable explanation of the language used. I refer again to the passage I just quoted from the writings of Paul with reference to there being "none other I Cor. 8: 4. t John 14. God but one." Immediately following what I read on that point comes this For though there be that are called Gods, whether in heaven or inearth (as there be God...

Genres: Religion, Lds, Theology, Nonfiction

296 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 1975

About the author

Brigham Henry Roberts was a Mormon leader, historian, and politician who published a six-volume history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and was denied a seat as a member of United States Congress because of his practice of plural marriage.

Reviews

[Tom · Rating 5 out of 5]

A really excellent statement and defense of the Mormon doctrine of deity. I've just finished a first pass of a Project Gutenberg text of this book (it's in the public domain), so if anyone wants to help with proofreading, or just read it, I've got a free copy for them.

The first three chapters (a bit over half of the book) consist of an article by B. H. Roberts on the topic, a rebuttal by a Catholic reverend, and an extensive response by Roberts. These chapters show very clearly the distinction between the Mormon view and the doctrine of most other denominations. Roberts' enthusiasm about the Mormon view is contagious.

The later chapters include a number of works on the same topic, including a couple of discourses of Joseph Smith and work by Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, and Joseph F. Smith. These serve to support Roberts' doctrinal position (demonstrating that the same doctrine has been preached continuously throughout church history) and contain some interesting tidbits.

[Talkador · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is a truly fascinating book. What I’ve come to realize is that the theology of the LDS Church is profoundly—indeed, radically—different from the monotheism found in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In Mormonism, God is not the one and only Creator of the universe, but rather one God among many, existing alongside the universe rather than transcending it.

In fact, I get the impression that Hinduism may actually come closer to monotheism than Mormonism does—at least Hinduism affirms an overarching, unifying divine force that drives all things. Mormonism, by contrast, lacks any such central, ultimate being beyond the pantheon of exalted gods.

The issue here is not really about the message of the gospel. A Mormon will affirm that Christ is the Messiah who died for humanity. Nor is the issue the Book of Mormon itself—one could hypothetically imagine that Christ made appearances to people on the other side of the world. The problem isn't even that the LDS Church is a "sect"—many Christian groups, even within mainstream denominations, display sectarian tendencies. It’s not the temples either—after all, Catholic churches themselves function, in a way, as temples modeled on the Old Testament.

No, the heart of the issue lies in the rejection of God as the Creator ex nihilo—the One who is almighty, omnipresent, infinite, and who exists outside of time, space, and matter. The One who, in His divine sovereignty, chose to take on human flesh and, in that form, bore the sins of the world on the cross.

[Alvaro Lainez · Rating 4 out of 5]

A great early work on Latter-day Saint theology. BH Robert’s was way ahead of his time and his philosophical and scriptural arguments have only grown stronger with the advancement of Biblical scholarship. As he points out, most of Vander-Donckt’s arguments fall short due to false assumptions he had about Mormon cosmology and theology but Robert’s still does a great job breaking down the scriptural arguments and philosophical arguments. He is right to constantly hit on how orthodox Christology is incompatible with classical theism and specifically the argument of divine simplicity.

The only reason I gave it 4 stars is because it is slightly dated in the fact that there are stronger arguments on both sides now. The strongest arguments for classical theism against Mormonism philosophically and theologically can be found in works like the New Mormon Challenge and stronger arguments in favor of LDS theology can be found in the works of David Paulson and especially Blake Ostler (his responses to the New Mormon Challenge and his Exploring Mormon Thought series.)

[Larry · Rating 5 out of 5]

Invaluable. Unmistakably Clear.

Shocking … because that which was made plain from the beginning is indeed plainly obvious.

It may seem masked, hidden, and made mysterious because we’ve erred in discerning truth from error, preferring contortion, confusion, and confounding, over thought-to-be blasphemous notions.

Isn’t it illuminating to consider how notions which are the very essence of the plain truth have come to be called evil?

Stunning to consider.

[Matthew Allison · Rating 4 out of 5]

For those who want to learn more about Mormon theology, for both non-Mormons and Mormons alike provides a very insightful read. I enjoyed it much and learned much.

[Jeff Crosby]

Interesting for the dialogue.

[Nicole · Rating 5 out of 5]

I highly recommend this book. The foreword was written by my absolute favorite philosopher at BYU, Dr. David L. Paulsen. During his lifetime, B. H. Roberts, the author, was affectionately known as "defender of the faith"- I often think of Susan Easton Black as the current "defender of the faith", though in truth, I don't know of anyone who can quite measure up to Roberts. As a member of the Seventy, I think we are safe in counting this book as fascinating, and containing in-depth doctrine (keep in mind that it is a "discussion" between Roberts and Van der Donckt, who attempts to prove false LDS doctrine. Roberts' responses are fluently skillful, non-aggressive yet powerful, and extremely informative; they dissemble Van der Donckt's proof texts with effortless wisdom and truth.

[Kathy · Rating 4 out of 5]

Outstanding discussion of the nature of God. B.H. Roberts wrote an article for the Church's Improvement Era magazine. The Reverend C. Van Der Donckt, of Pocatello, Idaho, a priest of the Roman Catholic Church wrote a reply, which the editors of the Improvement Era published. Then Brother Roberts wrote a final rebuttal. This was interesting to me to see that the Mormon doctrine of God stands up quite well to philosophical inspection. (For me, it triumphs.) Philosophical discussions usually make my head spin; this was quite readable.

[Amanda · Rating 5 out of 5]

Loved this book! Roberts is now one of my favorite authors. He is clear, concise, and to the point. I love the way he writes! A few of the articles by various early Church leaders that were included in the back of the book were quite good as well. It was rather difficult to read the Van der Donct portion of the book, because he didn't know very much about our doctrine. It was still interesting. On the whole, quite a good book!

[Bryce Spencer · Rating 5 out of 5]

B. H. Roberts clearly defends the doctrine of Deity and explains the nature of God. It was interesting to see the other view of the Godhead.

[Pam · Rating 5 out of 5]

Much to learn in this book.

[Luna]

A relatively comprehensive examination of LDS beliefs relative to the Godhead and its distances from the trinity creeds and beliefs of Catholic and many Protestant sects.