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Life after God: Finding Faith When You Can't Believe Anymore

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The understanding of God that many Christians insist is so clear in the Bible makes faith seem like an all-or-nothing proposition. When much of that rigid projection seems in doubt, it's not surprising that many people leave behind this take-it-or-leave-it religion. Pastor Mark Feldmeir offers an introduction to a God that many people weren't aware existed--a mysterious, uncontainable, still-active God who loves and cares for real people with real problems. Life after God offers glimpses of the ineffable God, who can emerge when we forget what we think we're supposed to believe about God and open us up to the mystery, wonder, and compelling love we crave.

220 pages, Paperback

First published August 22, 2023

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Mark Feldmeir

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Profile Image for Ronald Schoedel III.
464 reviews6 followers
August 25, 2023
Westminster John Knox Press invited me to read and review an advance reader copy of this book. I wasn't sure this was the book for me, to be honest, because of the title. I am not post-God or post-Christian. It seemed like maybe the book was meant for those who don't believe in God anymore or who have abandoned the Christianity of their early life. And to be sure, the book offers a lot for those people to think about. But Pastor Feldmeir quickly makes it known that his real audience is those who find it hard to believe in the traditional understanding of God that much of Christianity holds: you know, the angry old man in the sky who sets up traps for the unwary human race and then ends up condemning 99.999999% of them to eternal torture because they didn't appease him just the right way and have just the right ideas about him.

That sounds like a caricature, but it is the God that many Christians do believe in. And it is a God that I used to believe in. But I don't anymore. Ah, ok, so I am living my "life after [this horrible yet very mainstream version of] God." Ok, I could get into this.

The writing style in this book might seem somewhat different for a religious book. But I think it's because Feldmeir is a pastor who's not worried about impressing or appealing to the religious crowd. He wants all people to know about what God is really like. How God truly works. What salvation actually means. What being a Christian really means. What Jesus actually taught. What Jesus really asks of us. Which is so much more and much more meaningful than praying a prayer and singing hymns and getting saved. Yet we also can't earn our way into heaven. Oh, and is going to heaven even the real goal? Or is the kingdom of God something else entirely?

I devoured this book—finished within two days. I was extremely intrigued as Feldmeir built his case for how we've had God all wrong, how we lost the plot somewhere between Jesus and today, and how much damage these misunderstandings have caused.

It's no secret that western society is becoming less religious. Europe is already essentially a post-Christian society. Many thousands of disused churches dot the landscape, empty or converted into thrift shops, flats, pubs, or any other random use. After Covid, many American churches lost half or more of their attendees. And this is happening across denominational lines. God just isn't connecting with so many people these days. Or at least not the false god that's not really the creator of the universe, but is instead a creature made in our own image by us to make us feel better. Our societies and our churches have created a false god, an idol, of winners (us!) versus losers (them!, whoever they are). (A god that conveniently hates the same people we hate. A god that likes our church the best! A god who thinks our country is number 1! So good to have God on our side, right? Sucks to be those guys who are [fill-in-the-blank] and going to hell though!)

The people that used to worship have decided they don't need the angry old man throwing lighting bolts in their lives. But that doesn't mean they have become less Christian in their ways. No, in fact the moral arc of the universe continues to bend toward justice, often thanks to the contributions of these post-Christians. You’ve probably observed, as have I, that many of the most Christian people you know actually don’t even claim to be Christian. They often see themselves as spiritual but not religious. But they are kind, loving, working for social justice, peace, acceptance, and all the things Jesus wants us to do, that many mainstream Christians actually preach against. Ever hear anyone in your evangelical or conservative Christian circles say how loving your enemies is just not possible?; how the golden rule is weak?; how nations must be overtly Christian and project power?; how Jesus didn’t really mean his teachings literally? So many Christian people don't realize the true character and nature of God. They choose a Jesus that wants America to run the world like a Christorepublican theocracy rather than the Jesus that actually existed and wants us to feed and clothe the orphans, rescue those in need, love and support the outcasts, and generally spend our efforts in support of the “least of these”. Jesus didn’t say “build me megachurches and there will I be”, he said when we ministered to the least of our brethren, we ministered to Him.

We are asked, “Have you ever searched for God?” and asked to consider:

“If you made a list of all our imaginative answers to the question of where God can be found, you’d quickly discover that our beliefs are all over the map—or, more precisely, that God is all over the map. God, we are told, is up there, down here, out there, in here, over there, everywhere, elsewhere, nowhere. So we search for God by turning our gaze inward and exploring the spiritual landscape of our lives through a variety of spiritual practices like prayer, meditation and breathing exercises, journaling, yoga and tai chi, spiritual direction, fasting, or contemplative reading. Or we search for God by turning our gaze outward and exploring those places where others have claimed to have found God--the ancient sites of the Holy Land, the medieval cathedrals of Europe, the Buddhist temples of Kathmandu, the pilgrimage trails of Spain and Italy, the silent monasteries of Greece, the deserts of New Mexico or the casinos of Las Vegas. Some people claim to have found God in the strangest places. Like church. But finding God in church, it seems, is becoming increasingly rare. For a growing number of people, their search for God has led them as far away from the church as they can get. Maybe that’s because the God they met when they went to church was nothing like the loving, luminous, numinous, life-giving God they had hoped to find. In their search for God, maybe they found religion instead of a relationship. A lot of people do not know the difference between religion and relationship. There’s an old joke that says religion is a guy in church thinking about fishing and relationship is a guy out fishing thinking about God. Churches are often filled with people thinking about fishing. But the world is full of people out fishing thinking about God.”

And so it is that Feldmeir wants Christians and non-Christians alike to consider WHERE God is; HOW God really is; WHAT God is, and WHY God is how he is. He wants us to think of sin not as the things we do that we feel guilty about and think are disappointing to God, but know that sin as the scriptures teach it really means separation from God, as he writes:

“For Jesus, sin was far more than personal disobedience. Sin was the system that kept people in poverty, slavery, fear, and misery—the inevitable outcomes of missing the mark, the culpable disturbance of shalom. In his first sermon, Jesus asksHow can we be saved if there are whole parts of our lives, our relationships, our communities, our world, that are impoverished and diminished? How can we be saved when we are surrounded by un-peace? The word salvation comes from the Latin, salvus. It means well-being, wholeness. It implies there is no salvation apart from the whole. Just as our bodies can’t be healthy or whole if our spirits are unwell, neither can our society be healthy or whole if some of the people within it are unwell, or hungry, or hurting, or oppressed. Salvation is never purely personal. The way Jesus understood it, people are not saved until the whole universe is restored to wholeness.”

When Jesus heals people in the Bible, he says to them “your sins are forgiven.” Without the knowledge that the word salvation means wholeness or healing, we might read those accounts and wonder what Jesus is talking about. Feldmeir says, “Your sins are forgiven. Jesus isn’t talking about the man’s personal transgressions. He’s pronouncing release and liberation from all those labels and limitations placed upon him by his community, all the conventions that have marked him as other than, less than, different than, all the dogmas that have robbed him of spirit. This is the real nature of sin. Sin is the impoverishment or diminishment or impairment of our relationships with God, with ourselves, with others, and with creation. Sin, from the Greek, hamartia, has its origins not in any theological or spiritual context, but in the ancient Greek sport of archery. Hamartia means to miss the mark or bullseye. Sometimes you draw the bowstring, set your aim, release the arrow, and you miss the mark. Individuals can miss the mark. So, too, can whole communities and societies. Sin is the word we use to describe how our beliefs and patterns of behavior, or those of others or even of systems acting upon us, miss the mark and perpetuate relational impoverishment or diminishment that leads to un-peace—what theologian Cornelius Plantinga calls the “culpable disturbance of shalom.” Your sin is forgiven, says Jesus to the man who fell through the roof. You’re free now to be fully alive.”

And what is this “shalom”? It’s the ultimate goal of the universe, where that very long moral arc is taking us, eventually, but maybe faster if we try to heed the call.

“The Hebrew word shalom means peace. But peace is an inadequate translation. We think of peace as the absence of conflict. But shalom is far more than the absence of conflict because we can be conflict-free and still lack a sense of peace. We might still be unsettled. We might still feel as if something is missing in our lives.

“Shalom means to make something whole. Shalom is an experience of fullness, completeness, contentment. Perhaps the closest word to shalom in the English language is something like well-being. But even that’s inadequate, because well-being doesn’t come close to capturing the radical and counterintuitive nature of shalom.

“In the Hebraic way of thinking, this fullness, completeness, contentment, well-being called shalom is the result of the joining together of opposites or ostensibly opposing forces. There’s a popular vision of this joining together of opposites in the Hebrew Bible. It’s found in the teachings of the ancient prophets that speak of what the world will be like when the messiah comes—like this one from Isaiah:

“The wolf shall live with the lamb; the leopard shall lie down with the kid; the calf and the lion will feed together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder’s den. They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

“Things we’d consider complete opposites—all in one place, at peace in each other’s presence? We’d say, ‘There’s no way these opposites can coexist.’ Wolves and lambs? Leopards and goats? Toddlers and snakes? Liberals and conservatives? Oath Keepers and pacifists? Even Coke and Pepsi drinkers?

“We’d call it a pipe dream. But the prophets said it would happen—wholeness, wellbeing, shalom—when the messiah comes. This is where the universe is headed. This is the aim or intention for all of creation. This is the thought God has in mind for us. The moral arc of the universe bends toward this ultimate purpose. But it does not bend on its own. God gives to each of us the task of bending it. Shalom begins with us. But before it begins with us, it must happen in us. God has this thought in mind for us: that the opposites within us would be joined together.”

Feldmeir is very personal and explains how a seminary teacher confronted him early on and caused him to un-believe almost everything he thought he knew about God. So he knows what he’s talking about when he writes, “Life after the God we can no longer believe in can be one of the most fertile seasons for claiming a life in pursuit of the God we have never met, a God who loves us too much to coerce or control us, a God who lures, beckons, persuades, and woos us toward the divine dream, calling us to becoming, to goodness, to beauty.”

This is good stuff. It’s the sort of stuff that helps us see we don’t have an angry God waiting to trip us up and cast us into hell, but a loving fatherly and motherly God, ever trying to win us over with pure love.

Walt Whitman wrote, as the author quotes, “Re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul.” Ok. Try it, Feldmeir says. Then,

“...before you dismiss everything or even anything you already believe, attend first to that which you know, through your lived experience, has gladdened your soul and added beauty and wonder and joy to your life. Consider the very real possibility that such experiences might be hints of the transcendent, holy epiphanies, divine encounters, the quiet, hidden work of God.

“Behold them with kindness and reverence and astonishment. Protect them fiercely, even if they do not conform to what tradition or convention or orthodoxy calls authoritative or even real. Love them for what they are, for their courage to have shown up, for their companionship, for their generosity. Hold them closely, tenderly. Give thanks.

“Then, consider all that which simply does not add up or stack up or measure up to your lived experience, and hold these delicately, too—the questions and doubts and the myths and stories and the rituals and practices and traditions and the creeds and doctrines and even the dogmas and all the things about God that you’ve been taught but never understood or believed.

“Before you dismiss or discard any of these, give them permission to exist, to sit beside you, to just be. Sometimes we need to live alongside the tension of what we do not believe to finally and fully embrace what we might believe. Sometimes what we never could believe or even what we cannot believe today will, given enough time, become something like a friend or mentor or muse or generous antagonist that stretches and challenges and keeps us from getting too cozy or complacent with what we are comfortably willing to believe now.

“But if, while sitting beside you, any of these happen to get too noisy or needy or accusatory or manipulative or judge-y or shame-y—or, worse, if they start to show their teeth or become aggressive or intrusive or hurtful to the point of insulting your soul, carefully pick up each of them by the tail, one at a time.

“Casually listen to them scream and whine helplessly. Remain calm. Tell them thanks for sharing, but it’s time for them to move on now.

“Take one last look at them for what they are and what they can no longer be for you or do to you.

“Then, one by one, take them to the nearest doorway that leads from your heart to the outside world, and let them go. Set them free. If at first they refuse to leave on their own, call for the dogs, reach for a shoe, turn the hose on them. Do whatever is necessary to make them go away.

“Watch them scamper off. Love them for what they used to be or might have been. Say a prayer. Breathe deeply. Give thanks.

“And then close the door and return to your self—to that part of your soul that’s been held hostage for far too long—and consider how, after all the brave work you’ve just done, your very flesh might finally be free enough to become more like a great poem and less like a tortured lament.

“Because only then are we able to comprehend how doubt can become the purest form of belief, and disbelief can become the surest path to salvation, and life after God can become the most honest and beautiful expression of life in pursuit of a God who has been here all along.

“Only then will you be able to hear the Psst! of God over the Shh! of the world.

“And the Psst! is everywhere.

“Can you hear the Psst! of God?”

It’s ok that I had wrong beliefs before. It’s ok that it took me a lot of learning to get where I am now. It’s ok. It’s all ok. Sit with it, sit with God, be thankful for those things, and then claim the right to be free from it all, to be fully alive in Christ.

And what does it mean to be human, to be fully alive? “It starts with understanding that we are neither bodies nor souls but embodied souls, ensouled bodies, who are only as well as the relationships we share with all the embodied souls and ensouled bodies around us.” Salvation is not an individual affair; it’s why Jesus calls people to go into all the world. We are all His. He wants us all to share in all that the father has.

All in all, Feldmeir makes a very strong case for a new understanding of God. He wants us to repent (have a change of mind), go from a life of trying to appease the grumpy angry God we grew up with, and mature into a better appreciation for the God that
“we were never told about—
a God who persuades out of love
rather than coerces out of power,
who feels what we feel and responds accordingly,
who is both unchanging yet ever-changing, and
who is too busy offering new possibilities
in the unfolding present
to confine our futures to a predetermined plan.”

He asks us,
“What if the real God of the Bible is working for us
and with us,
experiencing and responding to us,
wooing us and waiting for us
on the other side of life after the only God
we’ve ever known?”

What if? There’s no question anymore for me. I know this God. I have felt this God at work in my life—both my life after, and even during my belief in, the old god. God’s patient and loving that way. Find this God and your life will never be the same. That’s what repentance is: a change of purpose. My purpose has changed. I want everyone to know about the real God and how life after the fake God can be so much more than we ever thought.

= =

This is my honest review after reading the advance reader copy of "Life After God" I received from the publisher via NetGalley. I received nothing in consideration for the contents of this review.
Profile Image for Ivy.
207 reviews
October 4, 2023
I don't usually give reviews on religious books, but because I got this one through NetGalley (thank you!) I'll leave a review for this one. I really appreciated the change in perspective this book offers. More people every year are struggling to connect with God through the religious institutions currently available, but still seeking a genuine relationship with Him. The nuances presented here in understanding may just seem like semantics or splitting hairs, and at times that is true, when when you're looking for a way to believe it's those little things that often make the biggest difference. Additionally, the book was a little more repetitive than may have been strictly necessary, but I read it more as reinforcing specific points that shift the focus of faith and belief to more concrete and tangible components. Personally, I found this a beautiful and enlightening book to reinforce things I already believed as well as challenge my thinking on some subjects I've been undecided on. Some of his points I don't believe at all. But my personal beliefs aside, I think this is an interesting philosophical work that could be beneficial for many individuals searching for a God they can connect to.
Profile Image for JP.
1,163 reviews51 followers
September 3, 2023
Life After God shows you how to make Christianity personal and antifragile. For many of us, the formal religion we’ve experienced has been delivered top-down, with black-and-white explanations given for even the most unknowable topics. Permission to explore our nagging questions is rare, where questions are tolerated at all. The problem with this approach is that it breaks for us when it can’t explain our most traumatic experiences or when those nagging questions become too many. People either abandon religion completely, or they shift from religious to “spiritual.” This book is all about a more robust interpretation and what to do when our concepts of God and Church break. We can realize how often Jesus, Paul and the ancient Hebrews didn’t have all the answers. We can contemplate that the God portrayed in the Bible showed less rigid thinking than many contemporary Christians. We can find theological concepts in both the Old and New Testaments that are more spiritual than religious. We can listen into the noise to find “psst” and “hum” sounds to guide us on our path. This book is consistently thought provoking and written in a style that exemplifies religion as an accessible experience. I enjoyed it and would recommend it to anyone seeking a modern, thoughtful and individually sustainable approach to Christianity.
Profile Image for Heidi.
Author 5 books33 followers
September 5, 2023
Written very much in the style of a Rob Bell book - like Nooma or Velvet Elvis - with short sentences and paragraphs that read more like a prose poem or speaker notes in a casual, sans serif, font. This book is not really for people who don't believe in God anymore so much as those who want to believe in a different God than the one they grew up with. As someone who grew up mainline, there weren't a lot of new insights for me, although it is written in an engaging and compelling style.
Profile Image for Robert D. Cornwall.
Author 37 books125 followers
September 8, 2023
Many folks have a difficult time believing/embracing traditional Christian understandings of God and the life of faith. Through the ages, the received faith has been encrusted with numerous cultural and philosophical elements. People wish for something purer, perhaps more in line with the original message. We've been questing now for several centuries for the historical Jesus. There are questions as to whether the original Jewish/Hebrew understandings of God have been corrupted by Greek philosophy and Roman/Western cultural dynamics. The world as we understand it does not lend itself well to belief in an omnipotent God who holds all power and thus can do as God likes. The realities of our world and many scientific discoveries have raised questions about whether we can continue to hold on to old beliefs. Perhaps there are other, better ways?

Mark Feldmeir is a United Methodist pastor and graduate of Claremont School of Theology. The UMC-related seminary is well known for being a center for the study of Process Theology, and the message that Feldmeir shares in "Life after God" is rooted in Process Theology. Process Theology is a perspective that draws much of its philosophical foundations from the work of Alfred North Whitehead, a British Mathematician/Philosopher. Process theologians, including John B. Cobb and David Griffin, among others, have used the Process philosophical tradition as a lens through which to view religious traditions, including Christianity. While there are elements of this philosophically rooted theology that are attractive, especially its highlighting of the relationality inherent in its vision of God, personally I have not embraced it. One of the concerns I have had with Process theologians is that, in my view, have called into question the Greek foundations of the Christian theological developments and simply replaced these foundations with Whiteheadian philosophy. Thus, instead of reading Scripture through the lens of Platonism, as Augustine did, they read through the lens of Whitehead.

While I have concerns about Process theology, Feldmeir has done a nice job presenting a Process-oriented vision of faith, one that recognizes that God's so-called omnipotence is problematic. One of the problems for Process theologians is that it uses a lot of Whiteheadian philosophical jargon such as the dipolar God and the idea that God lures entities. Feldmeir uses much less jargon in laying out his idea of a faith that might be attractive to persons who have trouble affirming traditional Christian beliefs. I will confess that I've never liked the use of the word lure. I know that Jesus called Peter, Andrew, James, and John to fish for people, but the use of the phrase "lure of God" is off-putting. I much prefer words like invite and beckon, words that Feldmeir uses along with "lure."

The layout of the book is interesting in that the font is more modern, while sentences are laid out in more poetic form. In other words, it looks more like a collection of poems than a traditional prosaic book, and yet for the most part, despite its format it's prose. It just has a different look, texture, and feel. That should make it more accessible.

The chapters invite us to address the problem folks have with God and envision something different. The first chapter speaks of the problem of God, raising the question of theodicy (defense of God in the face of the presence of evil). The book starts with an interesting story of an encounter with a professor confronting Feldmeir about his beliefs about God. I won't reveal the nature of the story but I have it on good authority (my son who is nearing graduation from the same school) that CST students and alumni of the past decade or so will recognize the professor.

Chapter 2 invites us to consider the call of God. That is, addressing the reality of unbelief in the traditional God and the Process vision of God wooing not only humanity but all of creation. Process likes to dive deep below the atomic level, with God wooing the basic elements to work together to create the universe. Here he offers a vision of God different from what is traditionally offered, a God that is relational rather than all-powerful. Again, he draws on Whitehead. It is in this chapter that Feldmeir, as is true of others like him, questions the translation of El Shaddai as God Almighty. It has become fashionable to conceive of the Hebrew word Shaddai as meaning not almighty but breast, thus Breasted God. The problem with such revisioning of God is that it depends too much on etymology, something that easily gets us in trouble. I'm not sure the translation "almighty" is as debatable as he and others suggest. It's definitely not a Christian invention because the usage is found in the Septuagint, a Greek translation that predates the Christian movement by a couple of centuries.

The next step is to consider the aim or purpose of God (Ch. 3). Here Feldmeir raises a good point as to whether God has everything planned out, and we are simply following the script (my analogy not his). I am in agreement that the future is open, though how wide is probably a matter of discussion. Then in Chapter 4, Feldmeir addresses the question of the nature of God. Here the discussion focuses on the question of whether God changes or not (traditional theism has often taught that God is immutable or unchanging), but is this the way God is envisioned within the Hebrew/Jewish tradition? Again, there is evidence that God does change, respond, and even grow. I do need to again address a bit of sloppiness. He suggests that there are two Hebrew names for God - Elohim and Adonai. That is a bit misleading. The two primary designations are Elohim (and forms of El such as El Shaddai and El Elyon) and Yahweh (the revealed divine name). Adonai is a circumlocution for Yahweh, as most Jews do not wish to pronounce the sacred name of God and thus use Adonai (LORD) as a substitute.

In chapter 6, Feldmeir addresses the question of God's glory. It is here that he gets into the question of metaphysics and some of the details about the nature of God and how God is present in the universe. He notes the Platonic idea of forms and Aristotle's idea of substances. From there to Descartes and finally to Process metaphysics, beginning with Teilhard de Chardin and Whitehead. From them he takes the idea that reality is not forms or substances, which are largely unmovable, but events/experiences/occasions. He writes that Whitehead's big breakthrough involved the realization that "every real thin in the entire universe, whether conscious or not, has some element of subjective experience and some degree of individual freedom, however trivial. . . . This doesn't mean they have consciousness. But it does mean they have some inherent and intrinsic value" (p. 133). What he has in mind here are things like rocks and such.

Chapter 7 addresses the question of the "salvation of God," or ours. Here he speaks of how we might understand salvation, not simply as building a bridge between us and God, but transformation such that we might have enlarged hearts and spacious souls. That leads to Chapter 8, "the end, with god." This is a discussion of eschatology, including ideas of the end of the world and heaven. He addresses the question many ask about how we experience eternal life/heaven, but suggesting that the focus is on experiencing God's shalom/wholeness in this life/world. As for the question of what happens when we die, he's not sure, but he does have a hope that looks a lot like what many envision -- restoration of relationships. Taking a clue from Process theology, the hope is that ultimately nothing is lost in God.

One of the challenges faced by Process Theologians is that this theology is so metaphysically/philosophically bound that one must almost embrace Whitehead before knowing how to engage with God. Feldmeir offers a more attractive, less jargonistic vision. For those who find this vision of God attractive and helpful, it might prove to be a first step toward a broader understanding of this vision of theology. I do have some concerns about sloppy biblical interpretation, and assumptions I often find present in Process-oriented people that they seem to have a corner on the theological market. Overall, it is a well-told narrative of theology.
Profile Image for Conrade Yap.
376 reviews8 followers
May 9, 2023
As the spiritual climate in the West becomes more secular and anti-establishment, the Church at large is entering a Post-Christian era. With declining membership in churches and an ever-increasing number of people who call themselves NONES, it is becoming more difficult to see what faith and belief look like. Some Christians even doubt what they believe as they toggle between faith and doubt. Dealing with such situations can be tricky. How does one nuance the historic faith without sweeping contemporary doubts under the carpet? Here lies the challenge that author, pastor, and professor Mark Feldmeir boldly tackles. Starting with a professor using an imaginary gun to challenge a student's faith, he articulates the classic problem that pits the doctrine of God's love against the reality of human pain and suffering. Where does free will come in? If God already knows why certain events are bound to happen, why did He not intervene according to His Goodness? His musings about theodicy take us through history and contemporary times. In the former, he mentions the writings of CS Lewis, Pascal, Nicholas Wolterstorff, and the biblical book of Job. In the latter, he shows us the evil that is happening in this world, and points out the elephant in the room: The problem with faith is not faith per se, but conceptions of God formulated by Christianity or what many Christians make of God. Feldmeir then goes back to the fundamentals before assuming any such conceptions. Some of the basic questions include questions pertaining to our origins, our larger purposes, our destinations, how we will get there, and how all these have to do with God. Using historical symbols and various literary devices, he shows us that faith is not necessarily derived from our creeds or doctrines of the Church. Historic symbols like the boat in a storm where the disciples were caught between faith and doubt even in the presence of Jesus. He also highlights the origins of the names of God, to show us that God is more than simply a divine Name, but One who identifies with our everyday lives. Rather than disposing of the past as irrelevant, we learn about the need to see history and our past as important milestones to guide us in our spiritual thoughts.

In each chapter, the author gives us a page from the past to show us the origins of Christian thought. This is quickly followed by some contemporary events to help readers understand the changing contexts of culture and society. In all situations, Feldmeir asks some probing questions on our behalf. Just like the biblical "doubting Thomas" style of questions, he probes the depths of faith and doubt before pointing the way forward. Each chapter deals with a specific aspect of God. On "Call," we go back to the origins of life. In "Aim," we note how God had directed the Israelites of old. In "Nature," we compare the nature of God with the nature of the world. Which can we find hope in? In "Presence," we learn that God's presence can be experienced both inside and outside the Church. Gradually, we are challenged to experience God not just on the outside but on the inside. Looking at the "Glory of God," we move from the physical realm to marvel at things beyond us. Like it or not, we are often forced to reckon on things that are far bigger than ourselves.

My Thoughts
==============
This book begins in a strange way. I was startled to read about a professor threatening to shoot a student with a gun, only to realize eventually that it was an imaginary gun used in a story that I cannot verify whether it is real or not. For those who had negative experiences with shooting, it is admittedly an inappropriate illustration. Thankfully, the author is quick to highlight the actual reason why he uses the shooting metaphor. It is to bring in the discussion about the reality of God in a broken and painful world. If God is so loving and good, why didn't He stop any shootings? Is that proof of God's existence or is it merely a wrong question to ask in the first place? While one might argue about the implied violence, the bigger picture is about how our modern sensitivities are influencing our faith and how we believe. Apart from dealing with the famous David Hume's trilemma about God, Feldmeir draws in some modern scenarios like popular TV shows, TikTok videos, abortion rights, 9/11 terrorism, and of course, gun violence to show us that the problems of the world remain largely unresolved. Can we still believe in a loving God in the midst of a hateful world? What I appreciate in Feldmeir's approach is that he does not tell us what to believe. He simply points out that any move toward unbelief is not necessarily a better solution in itself. In other words, he reminds us that even when we are frustrated with the Church or the conventional Christian beliefs about God, flawed interpretations should not make us throw out the baby with the bathwater. Or just because we cannot comprehend the world according to our standards of goodness, we should not pull the plug on God altogether.

Feldmeir's approach is less direct compared to some of the conventional methods of apologetics. He realizes that the world has changed and new contexts require new approaches. At the same time, it would be wise not to jettison the lessons of old just because of the new fashions in thinking and expectations. By putting together the lessons in the Bible without losing the reality of present challenges, Feldmeir hopes to encourage the disillusioned to give God another chance, or more specifically, to give themselves another reason to reconsider the reality of God and the faith. One should not allow the excesses of certain quarters to waylay the majesty of God's grace. It is a challenging task to reach this new generation of people who are more cynical and skeptical of anything resembling traditional Christianity or the Christian establishment. If one honestly reflects on history and the present state of the world, one soon realizes that there are more similarities than differences. The same issues experienced by the writer of Ecclesiastes have not disappeared from the face of this earth. People still think they can serve two masters, the divine and the world. With the advancement of science and technology, individuals might even grow dizzy over the technological tower of Babel thinking that science can replace God. Seriously, this book is an effort to reach out and touch this new generation of people. My advice: For the disillusioned, distinguish between the reality of God and the ways people see God. Let God's Word be true. It is because God's Word is hope which is why there is life.

Do not let the title of the book fool you into thinking that it is about people who no longer believe. I think it is for people who still have a desire to want to believe. The main thing they need is a fresh dose of God's grace to see that vibrant spiritual life is still possible (including the Church) in a Post-Christian era.

Mark Feldmeir is the author of four books, including his latest work, A House Divided: Engaging the Issues through a Politics of Compassion. He has served on the Adjunct Faculty at Claremont School of Theology, where he has taught homiletics, and has spoken at various conferences throughout the country on topics ranging from preaching, politics, and pop culture. He serves as Lead Pastor at St. Andrew United Methodist Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado. Mark received his B.A. in Religious Studies from the University of California, Riverside (1990), and his M.Div. from Claremont School of Theology (1993).

Rating: 4.25 stars of 5.

conrade
This book has been provided courtesy of Westminster John Knox Press via NetGalley without requiring a positive review. All opinions offered above are mine unless otherwise stated or implied.
Profile Image for GollyRojer.
229 reviews3 followers
August 21, 2023
My thanks to author Mark Feldmeir, Westminster John Knox Press, and @NetGalley for an arc of this book.

The book’s title, Life after God: Finding Faith When You Can't Believe Anymore, caught my attention right away because I have been in that situation for about 30 years. I was a staunch believer until several disturbing events combined to put me on the path to agnosticism. This wasn’t a choice I made willingly; I actually wanted to continue to believe, but circumstances pushed me to this point, so I was interested to see what the author had to say.

After addressing his own loss of faith and that of others, Feldmeir proposes to provide “a lifeboat for people who struggle with doubts and questions but still bravely wonder if there might be a God they haven’t yet met. A God they can honestly believe in.” This is the theme of the rest of the book. It isn’t about life after God; in fact, while reading the first few chapters I kept thinking a better title would have been, “When Bad Things Happen to Good People,” if that one hadn’t already been taken. He asks, “Could it be that it’s not actually God, but our interpretation of the Bible, that’s no longer believable?” This sets the stage for many explanations of biblical terms which have strayed from their original Hebrew meaning.

For example, discussing the original Hebrew meaning of El Shaddai as, not God Almighty, but The Breasted God, he asks, “Can you envision the divine as The Breasted God who desires to embrace and hold you like a mother or a father, to nourish and care for you with a deep and abiding love?”

My thought on this was, “In that context, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to say, “The Breasted Goddess?”

He posits that this God we haven’t met operates through relational rather than unilateral power, stating, “Relational power desires and works for the highest good for the other without forcing or imposing one’s own needs, feelings, conditions, or values on the other.”

In discussing the Hebrew word “Shalom,” he explains that it means “an experience of fullness, completeness, contentment.” This, then, is where the universe is headed; God is thinking of a shalom for each of us and all of us together. Then follows a thorough discussion of the nature of this unknown or unmet God.

In chapter 6 under the subheading, “Let’s Get Metaphysical,” the book really took off for me. We go on a metaphysical odyssey from Plato, to Aristotle, to Descartes, to de Chardin, to Whitehead; and then we plunge down from molecules, to atoms, to quarks, to discover that the space in molecules isn’t empty; it’s energy—divine entanglement, in what will be a revelation for many: “There are no bodies and souls. There are only ensouled bodies, embodied souls. Spirit and matter are entangled.”

Next, we learn about salvation, which turns out to be far different from what we’ve been told. But I’ll let you find that out when you read the book.

The final chapter fittingly deals with “the end”—the apocalypse, and discusses activities having a purpose and goal (reading a book, mowing the yard), versus activities which are ongoing endeavors with no definitive endpoint (meditation, yoga, visiting friends). There follows an enlightening section addressing what happens when we die, the future of the Earth, and the great Shalom of God.

At the book’s end there is a “Small Group Study Guide” containing questions on each chapter for consideration and/or discussion.

My thoughts on the book: it didn’t turn me from agnosticism to belief, but it was an educational and entertaining read, and I intend to read it again, more slowly. There’s a lot to be grasped in these eight chapters.
Profile Image for Gary.
682 reviews7 followers
August 31, 2023
Life After God

I was raised an evangelical fundamentalist, and as I have matured in Christ have found that that world view is more restrictive than I currently understand God to be. I vacillate between feeling guilty and feeling liberated. This book pushes boundaries with some thought provoking ideas, but also validates a new view of theology which is really an old/original view. This book encourages us, in the author’s words, to have an enlarged heart, a spaciousness of spirit. The middle of the book (163) discusses the intensity and variety of outlook we can entertain without feeling defensive or insecure. I’ll be reading this book another time (or two) as I work to enlarge my heart toward/about God.

On page 38 of the book, I came across a couple of my favorite sentences in the book, and the way I view creation. ”The Jussive mood is different. It's not coercive. It’s simply a form of hopeful expression that something could happen, might happen, will happen. But it doesn’t have to happen.”
and
“And God’s very first interaction with the universe is completely absent of coercion.”

The author goes on to comment on how the Hebrew concept of an existing intimate God was repurposed by the Roman Empire to become an all powerful, ruling God. We have moved away from the model shown by Christ to one modeled after Roman Caesars.

In chapter three the author goes off the rails a little bit. In one, he forgets that God may be able to self-limit, but man, for all his glory, isn’t able to limit God even when it would be more convenient for your argument to be able to do so. He forgets that creation is not all about humanity, but an expression of the very God he is advocating. A God without limits. The other area he goes off the rail is in his failure to understand that time is not linear. That is how humans perceive/live it. Astrophysicists will happily remind you that it is actually a space/time construct. The author incorrectly argues that if because God knows time non-linearly, he predestines events. Therefore He cannot know time non-linearly since we cannot know time in that fashion. .Again, he is placing limits on God’s abilities in order to promote the arguments of this chapter.

Once he gets this chapter out of his system, our author again has some interesting insights. He addresses the duality of God’s nature. God is Unchanging and Everchanging. Elohim is the God of all that is. Adonai is the God of all that could be.

The remainder of the book discusses God’s all encompassing nature, and uses scripture to counter a restrictive access to God. He does a very good job of supporting his argument. However, rather than countering the alternative viewpoint, he just ignores scripture that does not support his world view. He ends with the idea that God loves us so much he can’t really let us go. We have free will up to a point, but we don’t really have the choice to walk away from God for all eternity, because God’s love won’t give us that choice.

I feel that God’s greatest gift to creation is free-will. God is willing to self-limit his choices so that we have the space needed to make our choices.(I would redirect your attention to the idea from page 38 noted at the start of this review) No rereading of this book will change that viewpoint.

A complimentary copy of this book was provided by the publisher for the purpose of review at Netgalley.com .
Profile Image for Markie.
474 reviews34 followers
August 11, 2023
"Life after God: Finding Faith When You Can't Believe Anymore" by Mark Feldmeir is a thought-provoking exploration of faith and spirituality for those who have questioned or even left behind traditional notions of God. In this book, Pastor Mark Feldmeir offers an alternative perspective on God—one that goes beyond rigid definitions and opens up the possibility of a deeper, more mysterious, and personal connection with the divine.

The central premise of the book is that the conventional understanding of God often presented in religious contexts can feel constraining and all-or-nothing. When individuals begin to question or doubt this fixed notion of God, they may find themselves at a crossroads. Many people, feeling uncertain or disillusioned, may even leave behind their religious beliefs altogether. Mark Feldmeir seeks to introduce readers to a different conception of God, one that transcends these limitations and offers a renewed sense of connection and faith.

Feldmeir's writing style is both accessible and engaging. He combines personal anecdotes, theological insights, and reflective observations to guide readers through his exploration of a more mysterious and dynamic God. He encourages readers to let go of preconceived notions about God and to be open to the possibility of encountering a divine presence that defies easy categorization.

The book presents glimpses of a God who is not confined to traditional dogmas but is instead a loving, caring force that interacts with the lives of real people facing real challenges. Feldmeir emphasizes that this alternative understanding of God emerges when individuals let go of rigid beliefs and open themselves to the wonder, mystery, and profound love that they long for.

One of the book's strengths is its ability to address the spiritual needs of individuals who may be struggling with doubt or disillusionment. By acknowledging the complexities of faith and offering a more fluid and open view of God, Feldmeir provides a source of solace and guidance for those navigating a spiritual journey that doesn't neatly fit within established paradigms.

"Life after God" encourages readers to embrace uncertainty and to seek a deeper connection with the divine. The book is not about providing definitive answers; rather, it's an invitation to engage in a contemplative exploration of faith. Feldmeir's insights and reflections resonate with individuals who are yearning for a more authentic and meaningful spiritual experience.

In conclusion, "Life after God: Finding Faith When You Can't Believe Anymore" by Mark Feldmeir is a thought-provoking and compassionate book that offers an alternative perspective on faith and spirituality. With its emphasis on mystery, openness, and personal connection with the divine, this book provides a valuable resource for individuals who are seeking a deeper, more meaningful understanding of their faith journey. It is an encouraging and refreshing read for anyone who has questioned traditional beliefs and is seeking a more nuanced and transformative relationship with the divine.
578 reviews14 followers
November 14, 2023
Read my full review here: https://mimi-cyberlibrarian.blogspot....

Here is the publisher’s summary of the book. “The understanding of God that many Christians insist is so clear in the Bible makes faith seem like an all-or-nothing proposition. When much of that rigid projection seems in doubt, it’s not surprising that many people leave behind this take-it-or-leave-it religion. Pastor Mark Feldmeir offers an introduction to a God that many people weren’t aware existed—a mysterious, uncontainable, still-active God who loves and cares for real people with real problems. Life after God offers glimpses of the ineffable God, who can emerge when we forget what we think we’re supposed to believe about God and open us up to the mystery, wonder, and compelling love we crave.”

Last night, a young woman close to my family called me for some help. She has had 4 or 5 deaths in her family within the past year, including her mother. In the course of the conversation, she asked me, “Do you think God is mad at me?” Thank goodness I had just read Rev. Mark Feldmeir’s book because I was able to answer her with some truths, rather than some platitudes or a wake-up call to pray for forgiveness for wrongs she may have committed. Feldmeir’s truth helped me to tell her that what God was offering was strength to carry through during the times when life seemed overwhelming.

The subtitle of the book is “Finding faith when you can’t believe anymore.” Feldmeir explores the Biblical concept of God, traditional evangelical views of God, and a more cognitive awareness of the presence of a loving, trusting, and supportive God. The text is written in almost a prose poem style, or perhaps sermon style. It is very easy to read and digest. And, more importantly, it is encouraging and supportive.

It is a perfect book for those who are struggling with their faith, and those who wonder about why we are believing in a God at all. For me, it put into words the faith in a God whose arms are wrapped around me and supporting me.

Life After God is composed in a way that allows the reader to get through the book in a couple of sittings or to do as I did, read one section a night as my evening meditation. I have suggested the book for my spiritual growth book group at church, when I will read it again. I also think that it would do well as a 6-or-8 week study because there are study questions at the end of the book.

Mark Feldmeir is the pastor of St. Andrew United Methodist Church in Highland Park, Colorado. I identified so well with the book, it makes me want to visit the church sometime.
Profile Image for Andrew.
796 reviews13 followers
August 7, 2023
In Life After God, Mark Feldmeir explored the topic of a faith and our doubts. He first opens up about a personal story about being in his seminary professor’s office. He pulls out a gun and points it at his chest. He then proceeds to ask him an important question if he believed in God. He then explained that it’s a finger gun. He shared how he has always been a Christian and felt the call to ministry. He then asked if he believes that God is all powerful and that he could stop a bullet from entering his body. This leads to a discussion about omniscience and God’s loving nature. He later shared how his 48-year-old father was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He was very real in opening about faith and living with fear. He compared it to a sudden downpour and how he struggled with a river of doubt. He strongly suggested readers to give permission for our doubts to exist and he explained how this could lead us to embrace what we might believe.


One of my favorite stories was about the topic of what we are living for. His wife, Lori is a behavior interventionist for special needs children. She works with them to teach them how to communicate with children and express themselves in nonverbal ways. She was actively trying to assist with this one girl with her meltdowns. She was struggling with a way to connect with her. She would bang her head of the floor and she would refuse to engage. She one day heard her humming a song and she knew it was Kelly Clarkson’s “Stronger (What Doesn’t Kill You)”. The girl would jump, dance, and spin when she heard Kelly’s music. He shared how we need to live with the mindset of the fullness of time and living like every moment matters.


I would recommend this splendid book about faith and our doubts in a God we may no longer believe in. I really enjoyed how he explained the powers at work in the creation of our future and he broke them down into three key areas. It was really beneficial in learning about the power of shalom and living in the presence. Peace will greatly help us to find contentment. I immensely love how he described the presence of God and how we seek Him. He did a wonderful job at looking at faith and how to have faith when we are having trouble believing. I liked how this book contained a book club discussion guide and a small group study guide.




"I received this book free from the publisher, Westminster John Knox Press for my honest review.”


72 reviews1 follower
October 2, 2023
Westminster John Knox press and net gallery invited me to read and review an advance copy of life after GOD all thoughts and opinions written here are my own.
Life after GOD reads like a work of beautiful poetry, a scientific thesis, and an essay understand sermon all rolled into one.this made it easy to read. But some of it's more scientific points are complicated and deep. So just reading it once isn't going to do it justice in order to take in all of this beautiful manuscript test offer, you may have to read it more than once and like the Bible. Each time you read it, you might get something different out of it. As I previously stated, parts of it are eating to read and written in poem format. Other sections are more scientific, and still other sections die of deeply into humanity itself and strive to answer deeply rooted questions that we are facing today more than ever. Are we separate from the being the created us or are we deeply into whined with this? All loving all-knowing being? Is our future already planned out or is it up to us? Do we make choices and the future unfolds as we make those choices? It could go either way, but this book opens the doors to questions I had considered and others I had not ever before in my life. I'm really glad that this manuscript has been made available to us in publication and that we all can have a chance to read it and take in what it might have to offer to each of us. I thank the author, Mark Feldmier For his time, dedication, and tender loving care that it must have taken in order to put into this body of work. I hope that you enjoy it as much as I have. I hope it leaves you contemplating the real big questions, rather than the trivial things we find ourselves focusing on in this day and age.

This is my honest review of life after God without giving too much away leaving you to read for yourself. I've received no compensation for a reviewing an advanced copy of this book offered by the publisher via net gallery
Profile Image for Laverne.
327 reviews53 followers
September 18, 2023
Headline: Wait for the psst of God

The title of this book is truly what drew me in. I can’t imagine life after God so I had to see what this author had to say. I was a skeptic. Is this idea a possibility? What is this man going to talk about?
Then I let go of my assumptions and picked up my iPad. But then preconceived thoughts flooded my mind and I couldn't focus. I thought maybe the book was meant for people who don't believe in God anymore or who have abandoned their faith. But Pastor Mark makes it known that his real audience is those who find it hard to believe in the traditional understanding of God.

This book is about building a more realistic understanding of God that makes sense in today’s world which is summarized in chapter 1 where it asks “You see the suffering of the world and you can’t stop asking why” The author starts to examine the question of suffering, and proceeds to talk about the nature of God

In the next chapter the author tells a story about an attack and as you can imagine the question there is "if God could not have prevented this tragedy, then can we really say that God is entirely all powerful?

Pastor Feldmeir challenged the traditional idea s
that God has an exact plan for every person and also challenges conservative concepts such as salvation. This book is a gentle conversation to open our mind about a God we believe we know and a faith we think we understand.

I received a copy of this from Netgallery in exchange for my thoughtful and honest review
Profile Image for Marcia.
190 reviews
May 31, 2024
The majority of us question our faith, and sometimes even give up on God, at some point in our lifetime. But what do you do if you just finished seminary and are going to pastor your first congregation when you have a faith crisis? That is what happened to the author. In this beautifully written book using narrative, poetry, and sprinkled with humor throughout, the author looks at "big" questions we humans have. Among them: Does God really exist; Is God still relevant today; Can God and science co-exist; What happens after we die? He opens up a whole new way (to me at least) of thinking about and relating to God using the Bible, original Greek and Hebrew meanings and current scientific knowledge. Take it slow and find someone, or a group, you trust to read it simultaneously because I guarantee you will want to discuss and ponder with another person.
Profile Image for Kasia Hubbard.
561 reviews19 followers
August 21, 2023
Life After God: Finding Faith When You Can't Believe Anymore is a shorter book, but one that dives deep into the history of the thought processes of how and what we understand God to be, and helps us to go back and rethink how we got to where we are with God. He isn't trying to change your mind one way or the other, just really trying to get you to think of how you got to whatever understanding you have and question you on a different approach of 'what if...this...'. There are some interesting lines of thought processes that are worth exploring, and that really is the intention of this book, to help you get past your doubts and really look at your faith. Interesting read.
*I received a copy of this book from NetGalley. This review is my own opinion*
Profile Image for Amy.
128 reviews12 followers
August 27, 2024
Thank you to NetGalley and Westminster John Knox Press for the ARC of Life After God!

This book has some interesting ideas that I felt could have been explored more deeply. It definitely challenges some traditional teachings of the Christian church but as other reviews have stated, doesn't really live up to the premise of the title of this being a guide for Christians after they have lost their faith. It makes the teachings of the Bible more malleable for progressive thinkers but doesn't give much guidance for what to do "After God." It certainly doesn't give much hope for the Christian church actually adapting their teachings along the lines of his ideas.
Profile Image for Cynthia.
156 reviews16 followers
August 21, 2023
Very deep read.

The author provides a lot on the topic of faith, or the lack of it in times. He shared very person stories in this book and in all, this book reminded me to live every day for that day. Yesterday is gone, tomorrow has not yet arrived so live in the present. This book reminded me of a sign I had seen over a church. "Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday".

This book was as I said is a deep book and made me sit and think about God, Life, Faith and where I fit in to that.

Thank you NetGalley for the ARC in exchange for my honest review.
Profile Image for Jodie Wolfe.
Author 14 books216 followers
September 4, 2023
Life After God is an interesting read. While written conversationally, it provides a depth that causes the reader to really think and contemplate spiritual concepts often taken for granted. It's a book I will be thinking about for a while after finishing it.

~ While this book was provided for free, I was under no obligation to provide a favorable review. (2023)
Profile Image for Stacy.
164 reviews17 followers
September 27, 2023
I had an ARC from NetGalley. I’ve been in a place with structured religion the past few years. I needed to read this book. People get put off by the judging and hating of those who call themselves religious and this book went deeper and explained how we got to where we are. This book made me think, gave me questions to ask, ways to be. I highly recommend this book.
Profile Image for Terri.
643 reviews
October 4, 2023
Have you lost your faith in God? I know, it's a heavy question, but for a lot of people, especially in today's world the answer is yes. If that's the case for you, then you should definitely read this book. Mark Feldmeir has some insight that might get your through and help you reframe your thoughts.
Profile Image for Amy.
451 reviews13 followers
June 18, 2024
Life after God was a quick read about the God that is still around even when we question God and his goodness. Feldmeir offers up a view of God that allows for the mystery, questions and unknowns in faith. I appreciated his approach to broadening our view of God. Some of the analogies and stories went a little long, but overall it was a great read!
Profile Image for Dotty.
768 reviews
August 14, 2023

This book was hard to get started to read.
This book is about people who believe and has moved away from God. It makes you think.

I received this book free from the publisher, Westminster John Knox Press for my honest review, through Netgalley.
Profile Image for Kelly Pramberger.
Author 13 books62 followers
Read
August 26, 2023
Not my usual type of book but I was intrigued to see what the story was about. I found it a bit over my head to be honest. I do appreciate the chance to read it though from NetGalley. I may revisit it at another time in my life.
Profile Image for James Gribble.
12 reviews1 follower
October 1, 2023
Thank you for writing this book. I have already recommended it to a good friend. I highly recommend this book to anyone looking for a deeper understanding of God.
7 reviews
November 16, 2023
Right up there with Marcus Borg and Richard Rohr.
Profile Image for Missy Matty.
40 reviews1 follower
December 30, 2024
Very thought provoking. Sometimes a little hard to follow but it had me thinking of God in new ways and left me with hope.
Profile Image for Theodene.
405 reviews2 followers
November 12, 2023
Easy to read and full of amazing supportive thoughts that challenge my own belief in Christ as my Savior. With personal testimony as well as historical stories, this book will stir your thoughts about what and how you think about the gospel.

A few key phrases are used throughout the book that really make you ponder your own existence and behaviors. For example, shalom. Are you loving your life representing the peace of shalom? Is there an area of your life that you’re battling others or maybe even God?

This book is full of scenarios to challenge yourself. It’s a lot to contemplate. I’ll admit I had some questions about some of what was said, but overall, I think it’s cause a stir in my own heart and made me reflect on my own faith.

I give this book 5 out of 5 tiaras because of how it caused me to reflect and ponder my own faith and if I’m living in shalom. Thanks to NetGalley and Westminster John Knox Press for access to this title. I hope it stirs the hearts of many!
Profile Image for Simone.
723 reviews35 followers
January 5, 2024
I thank the Netgalley and the publisher for a copy of this book! The opinions in this review are entirely my own.

The title is quite misleading. After the first few pages, I thought I would be unable to finish it. However, it turned out to be a book I enjoyed. The author makes some great points! This is a book aimed not at those who no longer believe (as the title suggests), but actually for all Christians who ever doubt God. There were a few statements that I believe some Christians may find controversial, but, to me, this book answered a few questions I had before I was saved and some I had when I was still a "baby Christian."
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