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Xenophon's Symposium
Bryn Mawr Commentaries provide clear, concise, accurate, and consistent support for students making the transition from introductory and intermediate texts to the direct experience of ancient Greek and Latin literature. They assume that the student will know the basics of grammar and vocabulary and then provide the specific grammatical and lexical notes that a student requires to begin the task of interpretation. Hackett Publishing Company is the exclusive distributor of the Bryn Mawr Commentaries in North America, the United Kingdom, and Europe.
121 pages, Paperback
First published December 30, 2005
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Displaying 1 - 3 of 3 reviews
August 22, 2022
A Somewhat Tamer Party than the Last
18 August 2022 – Utrecht
For a while I had assumed that this was the same party that was recorded in Plato’s Symposium but it turns out that it isn’t. Well, I probably would have realised that the first time I read it, but back at that time I was a little disappointed that Xenophon didn’t come across as Christian as Plato did. Mind you, I’d always been trying to find Christian elements in Socrates because like a lot of others we wanted to see a Christ figure in him.
Anyway, like the Memoirs, this tract is one of Xenophon’s arguments in defence of Socrates. Basically he book ends the story with the statement that Socrates was a good man (though at no time in this discussion do they try to explore the definition of good). Xenophon does describe the party quite well, right down to the entertainment that is invited by the host, Kallias. Anyway, the discussion revolves around what they are most proud of, and we have Kallias who says that it is his wealth because by giving it away he can make people better people. Mind you, the catch is that they simply just end up being nice to him.
Antisthenese says that he is proud of his moderate wealth because it means that he has enough to live on, and also enjoy some luxuries but is able to spend time as a student of Socrates. Charmides says that he is proud of his poverty because by having nothing then nothing can be taken away from him – that sort of makes sense. Kritoboulos values his beauty because, well, by being beautiful you tend to get noticed, and get things, that others have to work for. Yeah, that also makes sense because it is amazing how young and beautiful people are able to get away with stuff that others can’t. Well, there is a catch because they need to know how to use their beauty.
Finally, we have Socrates who is proud of his ability as a pimp. Yes, a pimp. Mind you, the idea is that there are two kinds of beauty, one of them being physical and one of them being celestial. What Socrates is speaking about is the beauty of the mind, or moreso the beauty of virtue. This is why Socrates claims to be a pimp because he is trying to make his students into virtuous people, and that by coming across as virtuous to as many people as possible, then he considers himself a pimp. Still, I sort of get the impression that there is a bit of tongue in cheek going on here, and the idea is that this work is a very relaxed type of work, almost comical in parts.
At first we go through all of the members at the party and they tell people what they are most proud of, then he goes into detail where each of the participants explain why they are proud of this aspect of their life. Socrates also goes last, but that is namely because when Socrates speaks he ends up dominating the conversation, even if his method is simply asking lots and lots of questions (which can be really infuriating at times, particularly when it feels as if you are being railroaded into a position that you really don’t agree with, particularly if the other person is using faulty logic).
Another interesting point is the presence of Lykon, who was said to have been one of Socrates’ prosecutors, but also his son Autolykos and the host Kallias. It turns out that Kallias sort of has a crush on Autolykos, but his dad is not particularly thrilled with the whole arrangement. Then again, this is no different to these days where a parent may not approve of a boyfriend. What is interesting is that the editor did suggest that while there were homosexual relationships, they weren’t necessarily accepted. Then again it also wasn’t a free for all or anything like that, but rather people would be accepted and rejected just like today.
Well, I’ve finished my cup of tea, so I guess it is now time to go out and continue exploring Utrecht.
18 August 2022 – Utrecht
For a while I had assumed that this was the same party that was recorded in Plato’s Symposium but it turns out that it isn’t. Well, I probably would have realised that the first time I read it, but back at that time I was a little disappointed that Xenophon didn’t come across as Christian as Plato did. Mind you, I’d always been trying to find Christian elements in Socrates because like a lot of others we wanted to see a Christ figure in him.
Anyway, like the Memoirs, this tract is one of Xenophon’s arguments in defence of Socrates. Basically he book ends the story with the statement that Socrates was a good man (though at no time in this discussion do they try to explore the definition of good). Xenophon does describe the party quite well, right down to the entertainment that is invited by the host, Kallias. Anyway, the discussion revolves around what they are most proud of, and we have Kallias who says that it is his wealth because by giving it away he can make people better people. Mind you, the catch is that they simply just end up being nice to him.
Antisthenese says that he is proud of his moderate wealth because it means that he has enough to live on, and also enjoy some luxuries but is able to spend time as a student of Socrates. Charmides says that he is proud of his poverty because by having nothing then nothing can be taken away from him – that sort of makes sense. Kritoboulos values his beauty because, well, by being beautiful you tend to get noticed, and get things, that others have to work for. Yeah, that also makes sense because it is amazing how young and beautiful people are able to get away with stuff that others can’t. Well, there is a catch because they need to know how to use their beauty.
Finally, we have Socrates who is proud of his ability as a pimp. Yes, a pimp. Mind you, the idea is that there are two kinds of beauty, one of them being physical and one of them being celestial. What Socrates is speaking about is the beauty of the mind, or moreso the beauty of virtue. This is why Socrates claims to be a pimp because he is trying to make his students into virtuous people, and that by coming across as virtuous to as many people as possible, then he considers himself a pimp. Still, I sort of get the impression that there is a bit of tongue in cheek going on here, and the idea is that this work is a very relaxed type of work, almost comical in parts.
At first we go through all of the members at the party and they tell people what they are most proud of, then he goes into detail where each of the participants explain why they are proud of this aspect of their life. Socrates also goes last, but that is namely because when Socrates speaks he ends up dominating the conversation, even if his method is simply asking lots and lots of questions (which can be really infuriating at times, particularly when it feels as if you are being railroaded into a position that you really don’t agree with, particularly if the other person is using faulty logic).
Another interesting point is the presence of Lykon, who was said to have been one of Socrates’ prosecutors, but also his son Autolykos and the host Kallias. It turns out that Kallias sort of has a crush on Autolykos, but his dad is not particularly thrilled with the whole arrangement. Then again, this is no different to these days where a parent may not approve of a boyfriend. What is interesting is that the editor did suggest that while there were homosexual relationships, they weren’t necessarily accepted. Then again it also wasn’t a free for all or anything like that, but rather people would be accepted and rejected just like today.
Well, I’ve finished my cup of tea, so I guess it is now time to go out and continue exploring Utrecht.
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January 4, 2025Idk guys Plato might have this one….
December 15, 2015
Must read. Nothing changed since ancient Greece.
Displaying 1 - 3 of 3 reviews