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Fantastic Four Epic Collection
Fantastic Four Epic Collection, Vol. 19: The Dream is Dead
Dreams and nightmares! The Thing’s revamped Fantastic Four are already down one member, and now Sharon Ventura, the new Ms. Marvel, is taking out her anger on She-Hulk! When the Inferno sets New York ablaze, the FF must face Graviton and Kang — with Mantis’ life on the line! Reed and Sue return to the team just as the Frightful Four strike, but does the FF have any hope of victory when the last man standing is a powerless Ben Grimm? Then, Aron the Watcher casts the Fantastic Four into dreamland — but they soon discover that their greatest enemies…are themselves! Plus, the FF’s arch-foe Doctor Doom enters hell to free his mother from Mephisto — with Doctor Strange at his side!
COLLECTING: Fantastic Four (1961) 321-333, Fantastic Four Annual (1963) 22, Marvel Graphic Novel: Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom - Triumph and Torment (1989)
COLLECTING: Fantastic Four (1961) 321-333, Fantastic Four Annual (1963) 22, Marvel Graphic Novel: Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom - Triumph and Torment (1989)
464 pages, Paperback
Published March 21, 2023
6 people are currently reading
40 people want to read
About the author
Steve Englehart
1,395 books97 followersSee also John Harkness.
Steve Englehart went to Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut. After a stint in the Army, he moved to New York and began to write for Marvel Comics. That led to long runs on Captain America, The Hulk, The Avengers, Dr. Strange, and a dozen other titles. Midway through that period he moved to California (where he remains), and met and married his wife Terry.
He was finally hired away from Marvel by DC Comics, to be their lead writer and revamp their core characters (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern). He did, but he also wrote a solo Batman series (immediately dubbed the "definitive" version) that later became Warner Brothers' first Batman film (the good one).
After that he left comics for a time, traveled in Europe for a year, wrote a novel (The Point Man™), and came back to design video games for Atari (E.T., Garfield). But he still liked comics, so he created Coyote™, which within its first year was rated one of America's ten best series. Other projects he owned (Scorpio Rose™, The Djinn™) were mixed with company series (Green Lantern [with Joe Staton], Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four). Meanwhile, he continued his game design for Activision, Electronic Arts, Sega, and Brøderbund.
And once he and Terry had their two sons, Alex and Eric, he naturally told them stories. Rustle's Christmas Adventure was first devised for them. He went on to add a run of mid-grade books to his bibliography, including the DNAgers™ adventure series, and Countdown to Flight, a biography of the Wright brothers selected by NASA as the basis for their school curriculum on the invention of the airplane.
In 1992 Steve was asked to co-create a comics pantheon called the Ultraverse. One of his contributions, The Night Man, became not only a successful comics series, but also a television show. That led to more Hollywood work, including animated series such as Street Fighter, GI Joe, and Team Atlantis for Disney.
Steve Englehart went to Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut. After a stint in the Army, he moved to New York and began to write for Marvel Comics. That led to long runs on Captain America, The Hulk, The Avengers, Dr. Strange, and a dozen other titles. Midway through that period he moved to California (where he remains), and met and married his wife Terry.
He was finally hired away from Marvel by DC Comics, to be their lead writer and revamp their core characters (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern). He did, but he also wrote a solo Batman series (immediately dubbed the "definitive" version) that later became Warner Brothers' first Batman film (the good one).
After that he left comics for a time, traveled in Europe for a year, wrote a novel (The Point Man™), and came back to design video games for Atari (E.T., Garfield). But he still liked comics, so he created Coyote™, which within its first year was rated one of America's ten best series. Other projects he owned (Scorpio Rose™, The Djinn™) were mixed with company series (Green Lantern [with Joe Staton], Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four). Meanwhile, he continued his game design for Activision, Electronic Arts, Sega, and Brøderbund.
And once he and Terry had their two sons, Alex and Eric, he naturally told them stories. Rustle's Christmas Adventure was first devised for them. He went on to add a run of mid-grade books to his bibliography, including the DNAgers™ adventure series, and Countdown to Flight, a biography of the Wright brothers selected by NASA as the basis for their school curriculum on the invention of the airplane.
In 1992 Steve was asked to co-create a comics pantheon called the Ultraverse. One of his contributions, The Night Man, became not only a successful comics series, but also a television show. That led to more Hollywood work, including animated series such as Street Fighter, GI Joe, and Team Atlantis for Disney.
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Displaying 1 - 7 of 7 reviews
March 26, 2023
This collects Fantastic Four 321-333, Annual #22, and the Doctor Doom/Doctor Strange Triumph and Torment graphic novel for some reason.
I was a FF subscriber for a number of years and this Epic Collection was the last one I needed to have it all in trade paperback form.
So this collects the ass end of Steve Englehart's much maligned Fantastic Four run. At the beginning of the collection, it's just Human Torch, Ms. Marvel, and Benjamin J Grimm holding down the fort. By the end, status quo is ALMOST restored with Ben in human form and Ms. Marvel taking his rocky spot in the original FF.
Overall, I liked it, even though Englehart's butthurtedness over editorial interference leaks into the text quite a bit as the book goes on. I've said before, I really like Englehart's run in places but he couldn't have expected the suits NOT to want to originals back in the book at some point.
His plans that he didn't get to do were showcased in the dreams of the FF as their doppelgangers ran amok. I have to say I'd welcome Franklin being the reason Johnny and Alicia got together. It's a lot less hokey than her being a Skrull spy.
Anyway, this wasn't the shittiest FF volume I've ever read despite things being a mess at the end. Plus Walt Simonson is on deck. Three out of five stars.
I was a FF subscriber for a number of years and this Epic Collection was the last one I needed to have it all in trade paperback form.
So this collects the ass end of Steve Englehart's much maligned Fantastic Four run. At the beginning of the collection, it's just Human Torch, Ms. Marvel, and Benjamin J Grimm holding down the fort. By the end, status quo is ALMOST restored with Ben in human form and Ms. Marvel taking his rocky spot in the original FF.
Overall, I liked it, even though Englehart's butthurtedness over editorial interference leaks into the text quite a bit as the book goes on. I've said before, I really like Englehart's run in places but he couldn't have expected the suits NOT to want to originals back in the book at some point.
His plans that he didn't get to do were showcased in the dreams of the FF as their doppelgangers ran amok. I have to say I'd welcome Franklin being the reason Johnny and Alicia got together. It's a lot less hokey than her being a Skrull spy.
Anyway, this wasn't the shittiest FF volume I've ever read despite things being a mess at the end. Plus Walt Simonson is on deck. Three out of five stars.
March 29, 2023
I haven't read these books in years and was surprised how much I enjoyed it. It's not good but better than I remembered.
October 22, 2023
Rather boring collection with some good ones stories mixed in. A highlight is the graphic novel, but that isn't enough to push the collection higher.
December 6, 2024
This was pretty disappointing. Steve Englehart is a pretty fun writer, I'm currently reading a portion of his Batman run and its a good time. But this was just... dumb? I can't really think of any other way to describe it.
I feel really blessed to be in an era where comics aren't just disposable media that reads like a monthly soap opera (granted, some still do), and the dialogue, story crafting, and art is the best the industry's been. I love old comic art, and while I don't love a lot of actual writing from old comics, I still think that plenty of writers, including the writer I'm currently talking about, could overcome the limitations of the medium at the time.
Which is why its so disappointing that this book didn't. Englehart is a legend in the comic book industry, and rightfully so. He had a stellar run on Batman in his day, I've heard good things about his Avengers occasionally, and I expected something at least palatable here. The dialogue is SO CORNY. It reads just like what TV shows used to act like every comic book talked like. Which is really frustrating because the FF are my all time favorite superhero team. But when Sue's more worried about her hair and about Reed than having an identity of her own, its just silly. Reed is a bumbling idiot when it comes to social issues (more than normally), its not even believable that he's a genius at this point. Johnny is married to Alicia, which is such a dumb plotline. I want to see Johnny happy, but did we really have to sacrifice Ben's one and only love for this?
Sharon's kind of interesting, I don't mind her all that much. She could be better if her whole personality wasn't being in love with Ben, which urked me. I thought it was cool that she actually liked being a thing instead of a human, because she felt less shallow than when she was a human. That's a cool idea for a character arc, but nothing is done with it.
The most interesting stories are all the drama that's going on in characters dreams. We got Ultron coming back, Franklin Richards being the one behind Alicia's marriage to Johnny, and some palpable drama that actually felt good to read. But its all a dream so none of it matters. The characters don't get to grow, Crystal doesn't actually get to be with Johnny, and Alicia is still separated from Ben which makes me so sad.
That and the fact we got a Watcher who just wants to create action figures of the FF that obey his command and become fascists? This is what general audiences mean when they say comics are stupid and overcomplicated. The plot just was dumb and the Frightful Four just come out of nowhere.
If you know much about Englehart, you know he LOVES Mantis, whom he created. She isn't too prevalent in this book, but you can feel her being forced into a story randomly that just makes you wonder why Englehart thought she had so much potential that he input her into both the Marvel and the DC universe. Like she's fine, a bit boring but overall whatever.
Overall, art is pretty middling. Its the classic 80s art style that was so prevalent at the time, for better or worse. Rich Buckler is awesome, I love his art. No complaints there. Ron Lim and Keith Pollard... well they leave more to be desired. I just don't see the appeal but I'm looking at a book that is over 30 years old. The trends, the style, and the industry were a completely different beast that I'm too young to have fully understood or experienced.
Atlantis attacks was confusing and dumb. The art is cool, I really liked Rich Buckler's contribution to the book. Roy Thomas still wrote something more fun than Englehart's whole run here, and seeing the Avengers, West Coast Avengers, and FF team up felt like the classic Marvel stories I'm sure I would have loved as a kid. Thank God someone changed Ben back to his old design instead of the fucking stegosaurus look which was so abysmal to look at.
Its a good thing I bought this for the Doctor Doom and Doctor Strange team up otherwise I'd be really upset.
I feel really blessed to be in an era where comics aren't just disposable media that reads like a monthly soap opera (granted, some still do), and the dialogue, story crafting, and art is the best the industry's been. I love old comic art, and while I don't love a lot of actual writing from old comics, I still think that plenty of writers, including the writer I'm currently talking about, could overcome the limitations of the medium at the time.
Which is why its so disappointing that this book didn't. Englehart is a legend in the comic book industry, and rightfully so. He had a stellar run on Batman in his day, I've heard good things about his Avengers occasionally, and I expected something at least palatable here. The dialogue is SO CORNY. It reads just like what TV shows used to act like every comic book talked like. Which is really frustrating because the FF are my all time favorite superhero team. But when Sue's more worried about her hair and about Reed than having an identity of her own, its just silly. Reed is a bumbling idiot when it comes to social issues (more than normally), its not even believable that he's a genius at this point. Johnny is married to Alicia, which is such a dumb plotline. I want to see Johnny happy, but did we really have to sacrifice Ben's one and only love for this?
Sharon's kind of interesting, I don't mind her all that much. She could be better if her whole personality wasn't being in love with Ben, which urked me. I thought it was cool that she actually liked being a thing instead of a human, because she felt less shallow than when she was a human. That's a cool idea for a character arc, but nothing is done with it.
The most interesting stories are all the drama that's going on in characters dreams. We got Ultron coming back, Franklin Richards being the one behind Alicia's marriage to Johnny, and some palpable drama that actually felt good to read. But its all a dream so none of it matters. The characters don't get to grow, Crystal doesn't actually get to be with Johnny, and Alicia is still separated from Ben which makes me so sad.
That and the fact we got a Watcher who just wants to create action figures of the FF that obey his command and become fascists? This is what general audiences mean when they say comics are stupid and overcomplicated. The plot just was dumb and the Frightful Four just come out of nowhere.
If you know much about Englehart, you know he LOVES Mantis, whom he created. She isn't too prevalent in this book, but you can feel her being forced into a story randomly that just makes you wonder why Englehart thought she had so much potential that he input her into both the Marvel and the DC universe. Like she's fine, a bit boring but overall whatever.
Overall, art is pretty middling. Its the classic 80s art style that was so prevalent at the time, for better or worse. Rich Buckler is awesome, I love his art. No complaints there. Ron Lim and Keith Pollard... well they leave more to be desired. I just don't see the appeal but I'm looking at a book that is over 30 years old. The trends, the style, and the industry were a completely different beast that I'm too young to have fully understood or experienced.
Atlantis attacks was confusing and dumb. The art is cool, I really liked Rich Buckler's contribution to the book. Roy Thomas still wrote something more fun than Englehart's whole run here, and seeing the Avengers, West Coast Avengers, and FF team up felt like the classic Marvel stories I'm sure I would have loved as a kid. Thank God someone changed Ben back to his old design instead of the fucking stegosaurus look which was so abysmal to look at.
Its a good thing I bought this for the Doctor Doom and Doctor Strange team up otherwise I'd be really upset.
January 14, 2024
Mientras que en Nueva York comienza a desatarse Inferno, Englehart recupera en esta colección (de nuevo) a uno de los villanos que había utilizado en sus Vengadores Costa Oeste, en este caso, Gravitón, el poderoso señor de la gravedad, que se había visto arrojado al espacio en su último enfrentamiento, y que después de recuperar sus poderes, se va a ver atraído de vuelta a la Tierra precisamente por la distorsión gravitacional provocada por la conexión entre el Limbo y Manhattan. Y serán Los Cuatro Fantásticos (de momento aquí los Cuatro Fantásticos son solo tres, la Cosa, Ms. Marvel y la Antorcha Humana). Además, durante su batalla con Gravitón, van a atraer aún más la atención de Aron, el Vigilante Renegado que se ha hecho con el dominio de El Hombre Dragón. Después de vérselas con Gravitón, y aún dentro del marco de Inferno, los Cuatro (Tres) Fantásticos, con Johnny teniendo que hacer frente a los efectos de la magia del Limbo, que potencia su llama y le impide apagarse, se van a ver metidos en un enfrentamiento con Kang, que trata de hacerse con el dominio de Mantis, aunque finalmente unos y otros tendrán que aliarse para evitar el sacrificio de la antigua Madonna Celestial por Necrodamus, un hechicero de cuarta división que aparece aquí aliado de alguna manera con N'Astirh, para luego verse traicionados por Kang (por supuesto) y tener que hacer frente tanto a Kang como a los Ancianos Cotati (la raza de seres/planta que había ascendido a Mantis a la categoría de Madonna Celestial), aunque los 4(3)F contarán con la ayuda de Estela Plateada en este encontronazo.
Después de Inferno, y tras su breve paso por los Vengadores, Mister Fantástico y la Mujer Invisible van a volver al equipo (así que los Cuatro Fantásticos van a pasar a ser cinco), iniciándose una saga que va a relacionarse con Aron, y con la aparición de unos nuevos Cuatro Terribles (el Mago, Hidroman, Klaw y Titania), cuya interferencia en el proceso de cura de Johnny para que pueda apagar su llama, va a terminar llevando a la pérdida de sus poderes por parte de La Cosa, que recuperará su forma de Ben Grimm. Manipulados por Aron, que ansía rehacer la historia de los 4F, y que va a crear unos duplicados de los héroes, los 4F van a tratar de revivir sus primeras aventuras (el enfrentamiento con el Hombre Topo, por ejemplo), provocando curiosas situaciones, mientras en una especie de What if...? los 4F van a tener sueños sobre dimensiones alternativas... hasta que finalmente, los verdaderos 4F despierten, y con la ayuda de los Vengadores y el Doctor Extraño, derroten a sus dobles y a los Cuatro Terribles, desapareciendo Aron con los dobles, y acabando así la etapa de Englehart en la colección.
Y es una etapa más bien flojita la verdad, tanto en el aspecto de guion como visual (ni Keith Pollard ni Rich Buckler son precisamente primeras espadas). De hecho, no sé por qué, el propio Englehart firmó esta última saga de los Cuatro Terribles con el pseudónimo de John Harkness (me encantaría saber por qué). Y para conectar con Actos de Venganza, Walter Simonson llegaba para sustituir a Englehart... con muchas expectativas sobre él...
Después de Inferno, y tras su breve paso por los Vengadores, Mister Fantástico y la Mujer Invisible van a volver al equipo (así que los Cuatro Fantásticos van a pasar a ser cinco), iniciándose una saga que va a relacionarse con Aron, y con la aparición de unos nuevos Cuatro Terribles (el Mago, Hidroman, Klaw y Titania), cuya interferencia en el proceso de cura de Johnny para que pueda apagar su llama, va a terminar llevando a la pérdida de sus poderes por parte de La Cosa, que recuperará su forma de Ben Grimm. Manipulados por Aron, que ansía rehacer la historia de los 4F, y que va a crear unos duplicados de los héroes, los 4F van a tratar de revivir sus primeras aventuras (el enfrentamiento con el Hombre Topo, por ejemplo), provocando curiosas situaciones, mientras en una especie de What if...? los 4F van a tener sueños sobre dimensiones alternativas... hasta que finalmente, los verdaderos 4F despierten, y con la ayuda de los Vengadores y el Doctor Extraño, derroten a sus dobles y a los Cuatro Terribles, desapareciendo Aron con los dobles, y acabando así la etapa de Englehart en la colección.
Y es una etapa más bien flojita la verdad, tanto en el aspecto de guion como visual (ni Keith Pollard ni Rich Buckler son precisamente primeras espadas). De hecho, no sé por qué, el propio Englehart firmó esta última saga de los Cuatro Terribles con el pseudónimo de John Harkness (me encantaría saber por qué). Y para conectar con Actos de Venganza, Walter Simonson llegaba para sustituir a Englehart... con muchas expectativas sobre él...
February 16, 2025
The book was okay, but I didn't think it was anything crazy. Admittedly my favorite story by far was the doctor strange and doctor doom team up, which didn't even have the fantastic four in it at all.
December 4, 2024
Maybe best run on Fantastic four since mid sixties. Plus awesome GN drawn by Mignola.
Displaying 1 - 7 of 7 reviews