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Women in Ministry: Four Views
Should women teach men? Should they exercise authority over men? What about ordaining women? Even those who agree that Scripture must determine our answers do not agree on what it teaches. And too often differing sides have not been willing to listen to one another. Here in ove volume are the views of four deeply commited evangelicals that focus the discussion on the issues. Robert Culver argues for what might be called the traditional view that women should not exercise authority over or teach men. Susan Foh suggests a modified view which would allow for women to teach but not to hold positions of authority. Walter Liefeld presents a case for plural ministry that questions ordination as a means of conferring authority. Alvera Mickelsen defends the full equality of men and women in the church. What makes this book especially helpful is that the writers all respond to the other essays, pointing out weaknesses and hidden assumptions.
250 pages, Paperback
First published April 30, 1989
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Displaying 1 - 13 of 13 reviews
August 31, 2016
When it comes to difficult Christian subjects, there are many of these 'multi-view' books out there to read. Many of them, sadly, are not well written and rather only cease to ramp the volume of the debate or tear down the views of another side.
This book, happily, does not do this. The authors are much more civil towards one another than in similar books, even in their disagreements, and are more about defending and building up their viewpoints than tearing down others. While the first and last contributions by Robert Culver and Alvera Mickelsen are much more aggressive in holding down the extremes of each position, it is the middle two works by Susan Foh and Walter Liefeld that probably best represent the two main Bible-believing positions on this subject, though Foh seems to go far afield in the last 10 pages or so.
Whether or not one agrees with their positions, this book is helpful in raising the issues and defending viewpoints in a charitable way.
This book, happily, does not do this. The authors are much more civil towards one another than in similar books, even in their disagreements, and are more about defending and building up their viewpoints than tearing down others. While the first and last contributions by Robert Culver and Alvera Mickelsen are much more aggressive in holding down the extremes of each position, it is the middle two works by Susan Foh and Walter Liefeld that probably best represent the two main Bible-believing positions on this subject, though Foh seems to go far afield in the last 10 pages or so.
Whether or not one agrees with their positions, this book is helpful in raising the issues and defending viewpoints in a charitable way.
June 25, 2015
This book contains some variable essays: the traditional view I found to be quite unpersuasive; the limited view was very well written; the third essay had some good thoughts but was average; the last essay was again well written. I found that these essays are a good example of the difficulty and wide disagreement over key biblical texts (e.g. Junia, Phoebe in Romans 16, the Prohibition passages etc.). One confidently states that Junia was not an apostle with arguments, the other confidently states she was with arguments. A frustratingly confusing situation. I found myself most agreeing with the limited view, but I would not hold that with a tight fist at all and would be willing to be persuaded.
January 23, 2016
Had to read this for a seminary class and having read a fair bit on the subject was highly disappointed that my classmates were introduced to the subject with this book. The egalitarians did an okay job on their position but there are have been far better contributions to the debate. The complementarians sounded like neanderthals and I say that as a complementarian myself. Don't bother with this book.
If you'd like an excellent introduction to the debate on women in ministry you should pick up a copy of the new debate book on the subject, Two Views on Women in Ministry.
If you'd like an excellent introduction to the debate on women in ministry you should pick up a copy of the new debate book on the subject, Two Views on Women in Ministry.
July 30, 2024
Phenomenal work! This is essentially a debate in book form. Four different opinions on women in ministry, each with three rebuttals. Honestly, every essay except the Plural Ministry View were done very well. I largely believe this is because I had no idea what Liefeld's stance was after reading his essay. He just asked a series of questions in answer to both sides and went so far as to say ordination and leadership were non-existent in the early church. That's like saying the current Bible originated from the Council of Nicea or the throngs of people who say people historically thought the Earth was flat. Yes, these are common views, but are immediately dashed once the primary sources are examined... which is what he is using for his argument.
Regardless, each essay had their flaws, of course, but nonetheless did a great job backing up the basics of their argument (except Liefeld). Will this book change your view? Probably not, unless you are very open and/or have never thought about this issue. BUT it does a great job helping you understand both the strengths and flaws of each view. Personally, I found Foh's essay the most convincing, however the rebuttals to her essay were equally good. Interestingly enough, I found both the traditional view and egalitarian view to be equally valid. Perhaps this is why I resonated with Foh's 'middle ground' between the two. In short, this does a great job of presenting three of the four views present and is an excellent source to start looking into the topic of women in ministry.
Regardless, each essay had their flaws, of course, but nonetheless did a great job backing up the basics of their argument (except Liefeld). Will this book change your view? Probably not, unless you are very open and/or have never thought about this issue. BUT it does a great job helping you understand both the strengths and flaws of each view. Personally, I found Foh's essay the most convincing, however the rebuttals to her essay were equally good. Interestingly enough, I found both the traditional view and egalitarian view to be equally valid. Perhaps this is why I resonated with Foh's 'middle ground' between the two. In short, this does a great job of presenting three of the four views present and is an excellent source to start looking into the topic of women in ministry.
June 4, 2024
This was a great book to hear four very personal perspectives. I originally thought the book was going to be from an objective perspective for the purpose of explaining the different stances from different people that held that belief….. instead it was their personal perspective under the viewpoint. Although I enjoyed it there was personal opinion over biblical context at times and their emotions were running high in the writings. For instance, instead of providing a meaningful rebuttal, Robert Culver calls Alvera Mickelsen’s essay “frivolous” which is not helpful for a reader trying to build their foundation for what the Bible says on the matter.
Overall, I still think it was helpful and meaningful, however further research is needed to remove the drama and emotions of the writers.
Overall, I still think it was helpful and meaningful, however further research is needed to remove the drama and emotions of the writers.
May 18, 2021
This book has an amazing format, with each position being expressed and then followed by responses from the other authors. This was a great introduction to the topic, but everyone seems to have sources for conflicting viewpoints, which makes it difficult to formulate an opinion based on this text alone.
May 9, 2023
Incredibly helpful. The topic of women in ministry has been bouncing around in conversations. However, I was looking for a place to hear multiple perspectives on the matter- to hear all the places in Scripture. A couple authors were stronger than others leading to a better defended case, but I ultimately finished feeling more challenged to continue studying the Word and walking by the Spirit!
July 11, 2020
I appreciated the rebuttals to each section - gave more depth and things to consider.
December 30, 2012
This book is a rather dated (1989) take on the "women in ministry question". I have a growing feeling that these "Four Views" book tend to pick someone on the FAAAAAR right, someone pretty conservative, someone very left and someone FAR, FAR, FAAAAR left. This book fits the pattern. Bonnidell Clouse and Robert Clouse - who write the introduction and conclusion - are both exceedingly liberal, writing that the church has had everything wrong all along and will continue to do so until ability is the only criterion for office.
Robert Culver is the kind of unflinching traditionalist who makes everyone blush. He doesn't shy away from saying 2 Timothy 2 means that women are gullible and not as smart as men. Ouch. He seems quite unaware of the modern state of the world and the need to engage with it respectfully.
Susan T. Foh is engages articulately and respectfully with her opponents across the board. She successfully skewers the sacred cows of our society, pointing out that calling others to self-conscious submission is beyond taboo in our zeitgeist. Be careful, however, before deploying any of her argument. I am not very well-read on this topic, but even I know that some of her sounding points have been shot down since this book came out, or at least the conversation has continued.
Walter Liefeld seems to follow the standard near-egalitarian line that gender roles are a result of the Fall. This is simply pitting parts of the Bible against each other. I was surprised to read this guy taught at TEDS.
Alvera Mickelsen is a run-of-the-mill liberal egalitarian who starts off saying the Bible has a trajectory in mind, but finishes off by saying that the Bible has errors and embarrassing mistakes.
Robert Culver is the kind of unflinching traditionalist who makes everyone blush. He doesn't shy away from saying 2 Timothy 2 means that women are gullible and not as smart as men. Ouch. He seems quite unaware of the modern state of the world and the need to engage with it respectfully.
Susan T. Foh is engages articulately and respectfully with her opponents across the board. She successfully skewers the sacred cows of our society, pointing out that calling others to self-conscious submission is beyond taboo in our zeitgeist. Be careful, however, before deploying any of her argument. I am not very well-read on this topic, but even I know that some of her sounding points have been shot down since this book came out, or at least the conversation has continued.
Walter Liefeld seems to follow the standard near-egalitarian line that gender roles are a result of the Fall. This is simply pitting parts of the Bible against each other. I was surprised to read this guy taught at TEDS.
Alvera Mickelsen is a run-of-the-mill liberal egalitarian who starts off saying the Bible has a trajectory in mind, but finishes off by saying that the Bible has errors and embarrassing mistakes.
April 30, 2013
I had to read this book for a class on the Pastoral Epistles, especially the section in 1 Timothy 2 where Paul is talking about women. The book is, I think, a fair read, though I suspect like most "controversial" issues, anyone who comes to the text has already made up their mind about the issue, and is simply looking for ammo for their side (that was certainly true about me).
I will say that in reading the 4 points of view, I didn't find any of them particularly enlightening - nothing new was added to the debate here. There's no particular way to say, ok, one side is assuredly wrong, the other is assuredly correct. The book seems to, while allowing each position to advocate, leave the issue ambiguous enough that one can be a consistent follower of Jesus and hold to any of these views.
My criticism would be that there is a significant amount of the debate which really is ignored. There are large sections of discussion on Genesis 2 and the word "helper" as it's used to describe Eve's relationship to Adam, but no discussion whatsoever as to what the word "helper" means there (which, for me, is where THAT entire portion of the debate hinges). There's no discussion of the cultural setting of Paul's world, especially in Ephesus, which is where a significant part of the debate hinges as well, and the discussion of the Greek in 1 Timothy 2 is simply weak. As is often the case, Evangelical scholarship divorces itself from the larger context of the discussion the Church has been having for thousands of years, and as such, it comes off a bit hollow. There are deep waters to be explored here, and this book skims the surface of them.
If you want a decent evangelical look at the debate (there are certainly more than 4 positions to be taken on these issues), this is a decent resource. But, having read it, don't stop here. Go look elsewhere, and explore more fully to get a better grasp of the myriad of issues.
I will say that in reading the 4 points of view, I didn't find any of them particularly enlightening - nothing new was added to the debate here. There's no particular way to say, ok, one side is assuredly wrong, the other is assuredly correct. The book seems to, while allowing each position to advocate, leave the issue ambiguous enough that one can be a consistent follower of Jesus and hold to any of these views.
My criticism would be that there is a significant amount of the debate which really is ignored. There are large sections of discussion on Genesis 2 and the word "helper" as it's used to describe Eve's relationship to Adam, but no discussion whatsoever as to what the word "helper" means there (which, for me, is where THAT entire portion of the debate hinges). There's no discussion of the cultural setting of Paul's world, especially in Ephesus, which is where a significant part of the debate hinges as well, and the discussion of the Greek in 1 Timothy 2 is simply weak. As is often the case, Evangelical scholarship divorces itself from the larger context of the discussion the Church has been having for thousands of years, and as such, it comes off a bit hollow. There are deep waters to be explored here, and this book skims the surface of them.
If you want a decent evangelical look at the debate (there are certainly more than 4 positions to be taken on these issues), this is a decent resource. But, having read it, don't stop here. Go look elsewhere, and explore more fully to get a better grasp of the myriad of issues.
April 4, 2025
This book was alright. I knew there were certain views of women pursuing ministry but like I got confused for awhile about the mini reviews within each of the perspectives.
This too was for a class but the writer made it to where the book was easy to finish even if I felt no motivation to read said book for class.
This too was for a class but the writer made it to where the book was easy to finish even if I felt no motivation to read said book for class.
September 25, 2014
While the issue is waning in importance for many individuals, churches, and denominations, the Four Views treatment is an excellent way to consider the subject of women in ministry.
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Displaying 1 - 13 of 13 reviews