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Fight By Flight: Why Leaving Godless Places is Loving Godless Places
We often speak of the choice between "fight" or "flight." But what if it were possible to do both? What if collectively, we had the power to bring an entire state like California to its knees? Sadly, the only theological category many Christians possess for such an idea is the category of surrender. But what I’m suggesting is that there is a legitimate third The option of Fight by Flight.
119 pages, Paperback
Published April 24, 2023
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Displaying 1 - 27 of 27 reviews
May 25, 2023
This is a really short book introducing and defending the idea that one may fight the culture war by strategically retreating to a defensible position.
Webbon offers a few key reasons why he left deep-blue California for Texas. There were three basic reasons: affordable cost-of-living to allow women to stay home with kids rather than work out of the home and delay having children, defunding the apostate state by moving your taxable income out of the state, and using your vote strategically where it can be used more responsibly.
Those are three very good and important reasons to consider fleeing deep-blue states, but this is only the beginning of the conversation. He offers his own experience in this, and it is useful; but I had hoped that he would consider many other reasons or situations.
Seemingly half the book deals with covid overreach and the church's failure regarding covid--all of which I agree with, but that seemed tacked-on and only tangentially related to the "fight by flight" idea. There is so much more to this that could have been discussed, but wasn't.
This is a good start to the conversation, and I hope there are others that join it, because there are so many other things to consider, and this will become an increasingly important conversation to be had within the church.
Webbon offers a few key reasons why he left deep-blue California for Texas. There were three basic reasons: affordable cost-of-living to allow women to stay home with kids rather than work out of the home and delay having children, defunding the apostate state by moving your taxable income out of the state, and using your vote strategically where it can be used more responsibly.
Those are three very good and important reasons to consider fleeing deep-blue states, but this is only the beginning of the conversation. He offers his own experience in this, and it is useful; but I had hoped that he would consider many other reasons or situations.
Seemingly half the book deals with covid overreach and the church's failure regarding covid--all of which I agree with, but that seemed tacked-on and only tangentially related to the "fight by flight" idea. There is so much more to this that could have been discussed, but wasn't.
This is a good start to the conversation, and I hope there are others that join it, because there are so many other things to consider, and this will become an increasingly important conversation to be had within the church.
Read
September 1, 2023Hm. Not quite what I expected. The beginning matched the title, then went on to civil disobedience and attitude.
Beginning didn’t deal as thoroughly with the fight by flight concept as I would have liked. Money to evil powers and forced (or unconscious) compromise seem to be the two biggies in considering whether to stay in a liberal state. So food for thought, but would’ve liked more food I guess?
Also—if we should move to strategic locations for the effect of voting, then swing states should be the goal, not the already solid red states. He discussed moving to other such states, but he and his people moved to Texas. His other arguments support that moving to solid red states better.
Beginning didn’t deal as thoroughly with the fight by flight concept as I would have liked. Money to evil powers and forced (or unconscious) compromise seem to be the two biggies in considering whether to stay in a liberal state. So food for thought, but would’ve liked more food I guess?
Also—if we should move to strategic locations for the effect of voting, then swing states should be the goal, not the already solid red states. He discussed moving to other such states, but he and his people moved to Texas. His other arguments support that moving to solid red states better.
January 3, 2024
This book falls victim to a common Christian thinker's vice: this blog post should be a book! In 2020, Webbon's book probably would have swayed a lot of conscientious readers. In 2023, with the implications of the pandemic pretty squarely behind us, the arguments fall pretty flat. The good news is, it's only about one hundred pages all said so you can get through it in a couple days tops. One of my biggest quibbles is the author never addresses his own subtitle "how leaving godless places is loving godless places" except with a reference to the parable of the prodigal son(?).
Webbon uses a lot of Bible in the book from Genesis 1:28 to Revelation 1:10-16, but not all of it seems to fit with the idea he's trying to support. Some of the verses have been divorced pretty dramatically from their context. In other places, the author invokes books or studies he's read, unfortunately, there are no footnotes or endnotes for the reader to find the source material. At one place he mentions a book with a rebuttal to two-kingdom theology that he found helpful; but he doesn't tell the reader either the author of this book or its name! I would have liked to have read it for myself.
For someone feeling dissatisfied or insecure with their life choices looking to give their convictions a "spiritual" base, they might find it in this book. But upon deeper digging, I didn't find any of Webbon's arguments convicting or even convincing. He insists it's a matter of liberty but then beats up on anyone who doesn't arrive at the same conclusion he does. The strongest chapters of the book are the last two: a warning against bitterness, and a plea for unity; both of which have almost nothing to do with the author's thesis.
This book is best read with others for the sake of discussion and careful comparison with what Scripture says (I recommend looking up the entire passage rather than just the verses mentioned). It depends pretty heavily on your starting place: is America a Christian nation or were Christians always exiles in Babylon?
Webbon uses a lot of Bible in the book from Genesis 1:28 to Revelation 1:10-16, but not all of it seems to fit with the idea he's trying to support. Some of the verses have been divorced pretty dramatically from their context. In other places, the author invokes books or studies he's read, unfortunately, there are no footnotes or endnotes for the reader to find the source material. At one place he mentions a book with a rebuttal to two-kingdom theology that he found helpful; but he doesn't tell the reader either the author of this book or its name! I would have liked to have read it for myself.
For someone feeling dissatisfied or insecure with their life choices looking to give their convictions a "spiritual" base, they might find it in this book. But upon deeper digging, I didn't find any of Webbon's arguments convicting or even convincing. He insists it's a matter of liberty but then beats up on anyone who doesn't arrive at the same conclusion he does. The strongest chapters of the book are the last two: a warning against bitterness, and a plea for unity; both of which have almost nothing to do with the author's thesis.
This book is best read with others for the sake of discussion and careful comparison with what Scripture says (I recommend looking up the entire passage rather than just the verses mentioned). It depends pretty heavily on your starting place: is America a Christian nation or were Christians always exiles in Babylon?
June 10, 2024
Okay I’m convinced, I’m moving to Ogden, Utah with the based reformed patriarchs.
September 6, 2023
Some reasonable points poorly reasoned.
November 5, 2024
This is an autobiographical account of how a pastor moved from California to Texas. His reasons range from very good (honoring his parents, p. 26) to very bad (making your vote count, p. 45 - but that would also be a reason to leave, say, Idaho). Most concerning, however, is that - reading between the lines - it appears that the author split his church. He notes that 15 adults went with him to start a new church, but "several others vehemently disagreed" with him (p. 87). He also describes how he spent "dozens of hours arguing" with one of his elders (p. 51). But really, splitting a church and taking a bunch of people with you to another state is no better than splitting a church and taking a bunch of people with you down the street.
October 18, 2025
A PASTOR'S GUIDE TO FLEEING HIS CHURCH AFTER A MAJOR SCANDAL
I sincerely love Joel, which is why it was so hard to read this book.
Joel presents his reasons for leaving California in a very deceptive way in the book, making it out that his primary reasons for leaving were Left*sts, cost of living, etc. However, he fails to mention that before leaving, his church elders called him to repent of 3 disqualifying sins for a pastor: quarrelsomeness, lack of self-control, and failure to be above reproach. Additionally, after Joel fled to Texas, his former elders stated that he st*le hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of assets from their church and discovered that Joel had f*rnicated with a congregant while he was a Pastor and failed to disclose this disqualifying sin to the elders.
Not only is Joel's book dishonest, it is also incredibly out-dated, even though it is only 2 years old. This book praises Ben Shapiro. Today, Joel considers Ben Shapiro to be a sneaky J*w and Isr*eli agent who is destroying America. The book has a whole chapter about not being a "bitter prophet." Today, just 2 years later, Joel is the textbook example of a "bitter prophet", as he teaches "Make America Hate Again", calls the J*ws "par*sytical", says that women should not be allowed to vote, and has called for sho*ting immigr*nts at the border.
In the book, Joel wrote the following about young people who move to California: "Many of these people may even be Christians who possess a genuine desire to glorify God. But in the hidden recesses of almost every heart, there lurks a little boy still desperately trying to prove their worth by killing the biggest lion." This perfectly describes Joel. He is that little boy, trying prove his worth and get fame for himself by killing the biggest lions--Zi*nism, Comm*nism, Fem*nism, etc--and has forsaken the sweet mercy of his first love. In trying to gain the world, he is on the path to losing his soul. I earnestly pray that he comes back to the grace, peace, and forgiveness of His Savior who loves him more than he can imagine and longs for him to come back.
I sincerely love Joel, which is why it was so hard to read this book.
Joel presents his reasons for leaving California in a very deceptive way in the book, making it out that his primary reasons for leaving were Left*sts, cost of living, etc. However, he fails to mention that before leaving, his church elders called him to repent of 3 disqualifying sins for a pastor: quarrelsomeness, lack of self-control, and failure to be above reproach. Additionally, after Joel fled to Texas, his former elders stated that he st*le hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of assets from their church and discovered that Joel had f*rnicated with a congregant while he was a Pastor and failed to disclose this disqualifying sin to the elders.
Not only is Joel's book dishonest, it is also incredibly out-dated, even though it is only 2 years old. This book praises Ben Shapiro. Today, Joel considers Ben Shapiro to be a sneaky J*w and Isr*eli agent who is destroying America. The book has a whole chapter about not being a "bitter prophet." Today, just 2 years later, Joel is the textbook example of a "bitter prophet", as he teaches "Make America Hate Again", calls the J*ws "par*sytical", says that women should not be allowed to vote, and has called for sho*ting immigr*nts at the border.
In the book, Joel wrote the following about young people who move to California: "Many of these people may even be Christians who possess a genuine desire to glorify God. But in the hidden recesses of almost every heart, there lurks a little boy still desperately trying to prove their worth by killing the biggest lion." This perfectly describes Joel. He is that little boy, trying prove his worth and get fame for himself by killing the biggest lions--Zi*nism, Comm*nism, Fem*nism, etc--and has forsaken the sweet mercy of his first love. In trying to gain the world, he is on the path to losing his soul. I earnestly pray that he comes back to the grace, peace, and forgiveness of His Savior who loves him more than he can imagine and longs for him to come back.
July 17, 2023
A more accurate but less saleable title for this book would be Pastor Joel Webbon's Confessions. It is a short book, but a long-form repentance of his failures as a minister blinded by the glory-seeking aspects of evangelical missions culture.
Confession 1: Encouraging families to stay in hostile territory to express their faith and raise their family.
Confession 2: Failure to encourage men in discipling them on basic aspects of manhood.
Confession 3: Allowing the glitz and glamour of converting California to distract him from his own calling to take care of his wife, children, and parents.
In seeking to right the wrongs, Webbon provides a decent argument for why it is moral and even missional to pull a tactical retreat like he and his family did (CA to TX).
The first half of the book is where it really shines. After that, the argument loses focus and goes into related subjects such as righteous rebellion. Throughout, he shows the heart of a pastor caring for his flock.
It must be said that he is charitable and fair-minded throughout. Even devotes the last quarter or so of the book to addressing bitterness of people on both sides of the flight. This is something his (mostly online) opponents have failed to do, likely because key parts of this book are articulate arguments against the culture of missions in the US.
Webbon has openly asked for constructive criticism and I will indulge him. Here is my quibble:
I'm surprised there was very little reliance on historical precedence. Fight by flight is found all over Church history (the Puritans came to the US with precisely that strategy in mind) as is the right to rebel. This indicates to me he may perhaps need a Stephen Wolfe type to continue more of that work as it would, in turn, develop the argument more. Another 50 pages or so would have taken this book to the next level.
All in all, I liked the book. I'll go so far to say it's an important book of 2023 and worth anyone's time for that reason alone.
Confession 1: Encouraging families to stay in hostile territory to express their faith and raise their family.
Confession 2: Failure to encourage men in discipling them on basic aspects of manhood.
Confession 3: Allowing the glitz and glamour of converting California to distract him from his own calling to take care of his wife, children, and parents.
In seeking to right the wrongs, Webbon provides a decent argument for why it is moral and even missional to pull a tactical retreat like he and his family did (CA to TX).
The first half of the book is where it really shines. After that, the argument loses focus and goes into related subjects such as righteous rebellion. Throughout, he shows the heart of a pastor caring for his flock.
It must be said that he is charitable and fair-minded throughout. Even devotes the last quarter or so of the book to addressing bitterness of people on both sides of the flight. This is something his (mostly online) opponents have failed to do, likely because key parts of this book are articulate arguments against the culture of missions in the US.
Webbon has openly asked for constructive criticism and I will indulge him. Here is my quibble:
I'm surprised there was very little reliance on historical precedence. Fight by flight is found all over Church history (the Puritans came to the US with precisely that strategy in mind) as is the right to rebel. This indicates to me he may perhaps need a Stephen Wolfe type to continue more of that work as it would, in turn, develop the argument more. Another 50 pages or so would have taken this book to the next level.
All in all, I liked the book. I'll go so far to say it's an important book of 2023 and worth anyone's time for that reason alone.
July 13, 2023
Poorly written book that wasn’t convincing. After seeing this book promoted on twitter, I decided to get my hands on it because I live in a blue state. If you follow this author on social media you will find there is an air of arrogance, false humility, and pride about this man. I honestly got the impression he was trying to convince himself that he made the right choice by leaving California. Judging from some of the reviews of this book on Amazon, it would appear he has some skeletons in his closet. From the looks of how he presents himself and the constant tangents and rants he takes you on, maybe he would do well to join a woman’s talk show like the View. Based on the controversy surrounding him, a pastor isn’t a suitable role.
This book is a dumpster fire. He wants all conservatives and Christians to leave California so it can fall on its face. That basically to keep funding it’s terrible policies is sin. But then to appease the audience he’s offended he talks through the other side of his mouth that states it’s allowable to stay for some.
I find him shift his views based on who he is talking to. He was extremely dogmatic about this position but then realize it was too zealous for many so he’s offered disclaimers now. Many don’t pay that close of attention so they don’t catch his contradictions. Meanwhile, his following grows because who doesn’t love real life drama?
Save your money and time on this one. I may start using it to catch flies around the house so I feel like it wasn’t a total waste.
This book is a dumpster fire. He wants all conservatives and Christians to leave California so it can fall on its face. That basically to keep funding it’s terrible policies is sin. But then to appease the audience he’s offended he talks through the other side of his mouth that states it’s allowable to stay for some.
I find him shift his views based on who he is talking to. He was extremely dogmatic about this position but then realize it was too zealous for many so he’s offered disclaimers now. Many don’t pay that close of attention so they don’t catch his contradictions. Meanwhile, his following grows because who doesn’t love real life drama?
Save your money and time on this one. I may start using it to catch flies around the house so I feel like it wasn’t a total waste.
September 2, 2023
The thesis is great, but the execution was poor. I think there is certainly a lot of biblical precedent for abandoning a godless place to make way for God’s judgement. Lot flees Sodom, the Israelites sojourn in Egypt as “the iniquity of the Canaanites are filled”, Jesus instructs his followers to flee to the hills when they see the abomination of desolation.
But Webbon doesn’t deal with the exegetical and theological aspects of his thesis as much as he makes a cultural argument for leaving California. He depends on our need to care for our families, which is fine, but he needed to properly defend his thesis. Most of the book was a lament for his own poor reaction to the COVID lockdowns and then the remainder of the book read more like a plea to his former congregants to join him in Texas.
One point that I really enjoyed was: we should care more about teaching our men how to lead their families than about theological doctrines. When someone asks if we can explain supralapsarianism and it’s relation to the atonement, maybe our response should be ‘no, let’s talk about your family instead’.
But Webbon doesn’t deal with the exegetical and theological aspects of his thesis as much as he makes a cultural argument for leaving California. He depends on our need to care for our families, which is fine, but he needed to properly defend his thesis. Most of the book was a lament for his own poor reaction to the COVID lockdowns and then the remainder of the book read more like a plea to his former congregants to join him in Texas.
One point that I really enjoyed was: we should care more about teaching our men how to lead their families than about theological doctrines. When someone asks if we can explain supralapsarianism and it’s relation to the atonement, maybe our response should be ‘no, let’s talk about your family instead’.
July 1, 2023
I really wanted to like this book. Born and raised in California, I already didn’t need convincing on why leaving a blue state is a good decision (though I would not agree with the authors assertion that it’s “foolish” for most Christians to remain in blue states). The main reason why it’s just 3 stars for me is because even though it’s a short book, it needed a good deal more editing and a lot more content. Additionally, he seemed to switch audiences midway through the book: the first part addressed those of us in blue states (who may or may not be already convinced leaving is loving). The second part of the book seemed to switch to addressing those who have already left blue states and struggling with judging those who haven’t. Sandwiched in between was a bit of a rabbit trail on how churches in general dealt with Covid. I finished reading it with more questions than when I started. Unfortunately this short book isn’t one that I could put into the hands of friends or family without a few caveats.
September 7, 2023
Pretty good. Definitely not as divisive as I had expected based on the social media blowup over it. It certainly made me think about why I am in the area I live, and why I am staying. The parts on Biblical resistance were good, but in large part unrelated to "fighting by flight." The last chapter on not being better was the most important - even if you need to leave California, you should still love California, not castigate people who have come to different conclusions than you. Overall I didn't think he sufficiently made the case on how "leaving is loving," even though I agree with a lot of his conclusions.
February 27, 2024
Webbon writes from a place of personal repentances for the compromises he made in a blue state. People making those compromises (e.g. delaying having children or not having them) should repent as well and if they need to move to do so, move. But the apostles and generations following them labored in what started as completely godless cities and nations, and they built Christendom. There are a lot of fragile and uncommitted people moving that share the same compromise of people who are not moving. So this book will be wisdom for some and temptation for others.
August 8, 2023
Not as good as I hoped. The author got stuck on his feelings of bitterness and how to deal with that. So at the conclusion of the book things got out of focus with respect to the title. A theological basis for fight by flight wasn't really attained, if that was the intention. Small points on grammar, the author used "perimeters" instead of "parameters". Needed more time and proofreading. Still, for the subject matter being relevant to the times it was worth the read.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
September 8, 2023
Definitely some good points here—importance of the church gathering, freedom to raise your family, saving wealth, using your vote wisely etc. However, the overall tone seems more angry with the lost than truly seeking their redemption (e.g. “mushy headed liberals” etc.). There is also a fair amount of guilt he places on Christians who live in blue states. Worth a read if you haven’t, just wish it was written more robustly and in a less “Ben Shapiro OWNS liberal” style.
September 9, 2023
This felt like a less articulate version The Benedict option but in case study form from the author’s life. Reading this feels like he wrote a book to his old congregation justifying his move from liberal California to more conservative Texas. I don’t think this book will be relevant for very long, but it was a good conversation partner as someone doing ministry in a blue state and asking similar questions.
September 24, 2023
I enjoyed the premise of the book. It definitely challenged me to not only encourage others to make the move to red states (like my family did) to strengthen the Christian political position, but also to respect their choice to stay where they are. I only gave three stars because the book started the conversation, transitioned to talking about government overreach, then concluded. The themes were loosely tied together and could have used more length to reinforce the thematic connections.
September 5, 2023
Webbon has a good premise but could do more to prove it. He also needs to define “godless places.” The example he uses is California but how is he measuring the “godlessness” of that state compared to say Pennsylvania? Is a blue states the same thing as a godless state? How blue does it have to be in order to demand flight? He has a good premise but it needed some refinement before release.
July 6, 2023
More Christians than we think, I'd wager, have wrestled with the question of whether or not to leave their place for the purposes Joel lays out. This book represents the seldom-voiced position that leaving may be the most obedient option. Would recommend for anyone considering these issues.
January 1, 2024
Interesting concept. The author makes a pretty good case for leaving particularly godless places, if you have the option.
I also thought on numerous occasions, though, "these are first world problems."
Would have been better as a 8-10k word article.
I also thought on numerous occasions, though, "these are first world problems."
Would have been better as a 8-10k word article.
August 31, 2023
This is actually a really good book. I know this is beside the main point of the book but his thoughts on Jonah and bitterness was based.
September 1, 2023
Many good insights to practical use and evaluate the situations.
November 2, 2023
Particularly interesting since he writes from my neck of the woods.
November 21, 2024
Solid and thoughtful
February 26, 2024
I thought there was a lot of good wisdom to glean from the book, but I failed to see the connection between the author's premise and the application he was striving to make. Still worth a read though.
October 18, 2025
Interesting takes on multiple subjects. Could have dove much further into the main point of the book.
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