What do you think?
Rate this book
The Catholic Revolution: New Wine, Old Wineskins, and the Second Vatican Council
How, a mere generation after Vatican Council II initiated the biggest reform since the Reformation, can the Catholic Church be in such deep trouble? The question resonates through this new book by Andrew Greeley, the most recognized, respected, and influential commentator on American Catholic life. A timely and much-needed review of forty years of Church history, The Catholic Revolution offers a genuinely new interpretation of the complex and radical shift in American Catholic attitudes since the second Vatican Council (1962-1965).
Drawing on a wealth of data collected over the last thirty years, Greeley points to a rift between the higher and lower orders in the Church that began in the wake of Vatican Council II—when bishops, euphoric in their (temporary) freedom from the obstructions of the Roman Curia, introduced modest changes that nonetheless proved too much for still-rigid structures of the "new wine" burst the "old wineskins." As the Church leadership tried to reimpose the old order, clergy and the laity, newly persuaded that "unchangeable" Catholicism could in fact change, began to make their own reforms, sweeping away the old "rules" that no longer made sense. The revolution that Greeley describes brought about changes that continue to reverberate—in a chasm between leadership and laity, and in a whole generation of Catholics who have become Catholic on their own terms.
Coming at a time of crisis and doubt for the Catholic Church, this richly detailed, deeply thoughtful analysis brings light and clarity to the years of turmoil that have shaken the foundations, if not the faith, of American Catholics.
Drawing on a wealth of data collected over the last thirty years, Greeley points to a rift between the higher and lower orders in the Church that began in the wake of Vatican Council II—when bishops, euphoric in their (temporary) freedom from the obstructions of the Roman Curia, introduced modest changes that nonetheless proved too much for still-rigid structures of the "new wine" burst the "old wineskins." As the Church leadership tried to reimpose the old order, clergy and the laity, newly persuaded that "unchangeable" Catholicism could in fact change, began to make their own reforms, sweeping away the old "rules" that no longer made sense. The revolution that Greeley describes brought about changes that continue to reverberate—in a chasm between leadership and laity, and in a whole generation of Catholics who have become Catholic on their own terms.
Coming at a time of crisis and doubt for the Catholic Church, this richly detailed, deeply thoughtful analysis brings light and clarity to the years of turmoil that have shaken the foundations, if not the faith, of American Catholics.
224 pages, Hardcover
First published January 1, 2004
About the author
Andrew M. Greeley
382 books317 followersAndrew Greeley was a Roman Catholic priest, sociologist, journalist, and author of 50 best-selling novels and more than 100 works of nonfiction. For decades, Greeley entertained readers with such popular characters as the mystery-solving priest Blackie Ryan and the fey, amateur sleuth Nuala Anne McGrail. His books typically center on Irish-American Roman Catholics living or working in Chicago.
http://us.macmillan.com/author/andrew...
http://us.macmillan.com/author/andrew...
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 7 of 7 reviews
March 30, 2019
Greeley wants to know what was the outcome of the Vatican II among the laity. What impact did it have on Catholics' relationship to their church. Although a priest, he approached this question from the vantage point of a sociologist. He concludes that there was indeed a revolution in attitude among the laity. Prior to Vatican II being Cartholic meant following the rules. After Vatican II it rooted more in the relationship with God and power of the Eucharist. Meanwhile, the laity identified less with the rules, especially on sexuality. Greeley sees Saint Pope John Paul II as something of a Thermadorian reaction, to use the French Revolution metaphor, attempting to restore the pre-Vatican II mores. Greeley is very critical of the "beige Catholicism" (a term he appropriated with attribution from Bishop Robert Barron), the artless, bland Catholicism, absent of the majesty that appeals to many Catholics, myself included.
October 30, 2017
"The Catholic Revolution: New Wine, Old Wineskins, and the Second Vatican Council" by Andrew Greeley was published in 2004 by University of California Press. Greeley is a Catholic priest, social scientist, and accomplished author with over 30 novels. Greeley presents a compelling argument that the Roman Catholic Church has changed into a living community of spiritual leaders and laity who seek beauty in Church heritage stories that teach transcendental love based on goodness, beauty, and truth. (P)
December 2, 2019
I wanted to like this, or at least learn something. The book promises an explanation of how the second council changed the church, the implication being "and now we're in this mess." Being as this was published in 2004, its unforgivable that it takes 90 pages to acknowledge the abuse scandals.
But, like most priests I've listened to, Greeley followed the standard formula for a homily in this book.
1. Identify something important to the understanding of the world, then passionately argue about a point that is similar but not quite that. This technique was evident on the very first page. Greeley argues that there was no revolution to the sexual revolution because attitudes toward sex didn't change. Okay, but that wasn't the revolutionary part. The revolution was that with the advent of the birth control pill (an easy to take method that doesn't get in the way of starting the sexual act and that is still completely in the woman's control), sexual relations no longer had the implied horror of completely changing a woman's life. The revolution was that women could have sex without fear of an unintended pregnancy making her drop out of school, or lose a job, or have to give up another several years to raising yet another child. Women no longer were assumed to drop out of society as the result of sexual relations. The revolution was viewing women as people instead of receptacles and incubators.
2. Go on way too long. This is an essay stretched into a book, much like a homily that has one good point, two tangients, and a dozen examples that may or may not be on point.
3. Find a line to hang everything on, then beat it into the ground. That wineskins metaphor is used with astounding frequency throughout the book. It became a game for me as I tried to anticipate which example would be worthy of wineskin.
4. Be blissfully unaware of your own hypocrisy. Greeley contends that Catholics don't leave the church because they enjoy being Catholic, but what we really need to do as a church is help people cultivate a Catholic identity. This identity is why we will have fish on Fridays now that we aren't threatened with damnation for such a sin. It's why we will attend mass on Sundays instead of out of fear of Hell. He also argues that we pick and choose how we practice and view our Catholicism. The examples of picking and choosing are rely heavily on identity rather than faith. He also explains how he was folded into the faith by his community and family and he internalized all of that ... or, that his Catholicism is part of his identity and has been for a long time.
5. Have one or two good points that your audience will begrudgingly accept, even if you've somehow muddled the good points with a cringe-worthy lack of understanding of the real world. Greeley seems to understand that priests don't live in the real world, but doesn't really apply that knowledge to practice. Most priests (at least the ones I've been listening to for half my life) want to tell me how to vote and how to live. Greeley's real issue is that the church is too pushy about this, not that it's a nonsensical way of relating to your parish.
So even though it's pushy, go ahead and take your advice on sexuality from a celibate man who may or may not be involved in a sex abuse scandal. Also, sit there and look ashamed as that main rails against how people are too money hungry; now kindly put your tithing into the basket. "Don't focus on work, you only need the spiritual! That's where you'll find happiness," said by a man who is currently finding fulfillment in his work. "You don't need a bigger house! Kids should share rooms!" he wrote down that line on the desk in his room in the house he didn't pay for that is next door to his place of employment and where he has no children.
I could go on for a while here.
6. Find a way to show your disdain for women. Greeley disagrees with everyone he identified as a feminist and discounts anything they say as misguided. Without explicitly saying it, women are second tier in his mindset. He claims that modern priests respect the dignity of women. Either the parishes he attended are radically different than the ones I have, or his version of respecting the dignity of women means that it's great that when we behave outside of patriarchal norms the public no longer throws rocks at us until we die.
7. End strong. The entire book more or less is summarized in the conclusion. So take that last sentence and run with it parishioners.
But, like most priests I've listened to, Greeley followed the standard formula for a homily in this book.
1. Identify something important to the understanding of the world, then passionately argue about a point that is similar but not quite that. This technique was evident on the very first page. Greeley argues that there was no revolution to the sexual revolution because attitudes toward sex didn't change. Okay, but that wasn't the revolutionary part. The revolution was that with the advent of the birth control pill (an easy to take method that doesn't get in the way of starting the sexual act and that is still completely in the woman's control), sexual relations no longer had the implied horror of completely changing a woman's life. The revolution was that women could have sex without fear of an unintended pregnancy making her drop out of school, or lose a job, or have to give up another several years to raising yet another child. Women no longer were assumed to drop out of society as the result of sexual relations. The revolution was viewing women as people instead of receptacles and incubators.
2. Go on way too long. This is an essay stretched into a book, much like a homily that has one good point, two tangients, and a dozen examples that may or may not be on point.
3. Find a line to hang everything on, then beat it into the ground. That wineskins metaphor is used with astounding frequency throughout the book. It became a game for me as I tried to anticipate which example would be worthy of wineskin.
4. Be blissfully unaware of your own hypocrisy. Greeley contends that Catholics don't leave the church because they enjoy being Catholic, but what we really need to do as a church is help people cultivate a Catholic identity. This identity is why we will have fish on Fridays now that we aren't threatened with damnation for such a sin. It's why we will attend mass on Sundays instead of out of fear of Hell. He also argues that we pick and choose how we practice and view our Catholicism. The examples of picking and choosing are rely heavily on identity rather than faith. He also explains how he was folded into the faith by his community and family and he internalized all of that ... or, that his Catholicism is part of his identity and has been for a long time.
5. Have one or two good points that your audience will begrudgingly accept, even if you've somehow muddled the good points with a cringe-worthy lack of understanding of the real world. Greeley seems to understand that priests don't live in the real world, but doesn't really apply that knowledge to practice. Most priests (at least the ones I've been listening to for half my life) want to tell me how to vote and how to live. Greeley's real issue is that the church is too pushy about this, not that it's a nonsensical way of relating to your parish.
So even though it's pushy, go ahead and take your advice on sexuality from a celibate man who may or may not be involved in a sex abuse scandal. Also, sit there and look ashamed as that main rails against how people are too money hungry; now kindly put your tithing into the basket. "Don't focus on work, you only need the spiritual! That's where you'll find happiness," said by a man who is currently finding fulfillment in his work. "You don't need a bigger house! Kids should share rooms!" he wrote down that line on the desk in his room in the house he didn't pay for that is next door to his place of employment and where he has no children.
I could go on for a while here.
6. Find a way to show your disdain for women. Greeley disagrees with everyone he identified as a feminist and discounts anything they say as misguided. Without explicitly saying it, women are second tier in his mindset. He claims that modern priests respect the dignity of women. Either the parishes he attended are radically different than the ones I have, or his version of respecting the dignity of women means that it's great that when we behave outside of patriarchal norms the public no longer throws rocks at us until we die.
7. End strong. The entire book more or less is summarized in the conclusion. So take that last sentence and run with it parishioners.
September 13, 2009
Watching Ted Kennedy's funeral inspired me to read this fairly short book about the repercussions of Vatican II on Catholics. Part one was definitely better than part two, which seemed very repetitive (many of the chapters are based on previously published articles). Table 7--the results of polling data from 2001 on what Catholics believe to be "essential elements of Catholic identity"--is especially revealing. "Charity for the poor" and "special presence of God in the poor" are #2 and #5 on the list, respectively, far above the divisive issues some people claim ought to determine how Catholics conduct their lives. Greeley's diagnosis of what makes Catholics remain Catholics--the compelling nature of the church's stories and rituals--strikes me as exactly right, though his rants against lay liturgists seem bizarre and excessive.
July 20, 2009
Andrew Greeley is a sociologist and Catholic priest. In this book, he explores what happened to the Catholic church after the Second Vatican Council.
He presents the case the Second Vatican Council didn't actually instigate large changes to the church but that those in the church were not fully prepared to implement the changes and now that the changes have been made, there’s very little than can be done to turn back the clock.
He also pointed out that the Church leaders often ignore the things that make Catholics love being Catholic – such as May Crownings, the stories, stained glass windows, etc.
Greeley makes his points well and has the data to back up his observations.
He presents the case the Second Vatican Council didn't actually instigate large changes to the church but that those in the church were not fully prepared to implement the changes and now that the changes have been made, there’s very little than can be done to turn back the clock.
He also pointed out that the Church leaders often ignore the things that make Catholics love being Catholic – such as May Crownings, the stories, stained glass windows, etc.
Greeley makes his points well and has the data to back up his observations.
July 12, 2013
Very repetitious as a lot of the information presented is comprised of previously written and published works that express the same idea. The idea being that the opening up of the Church in the wake of Vatican II did not and should not have taken away many Catholic rituals and symbols, which make Catholicism the rich and beautiful tradition that brings us into the truth of Jesus Christ and God. This work suffers from its length even though it is not a very long book.
August 18, 2012
Interesting sociological evidence of the changes brought by the Second Vatican Council. I disliked the second section of the book, his "how to fix things" opinions. I also did not appreciate how he summarily dismissed arguments of all feminists based on his disagreement with one.
Displaying 1 - 7 of 7 reviews