Richard III discussion

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Book Discussions > Seventh Son by Reay Tannahill

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message 1: by MAP (new)

MAP | 181 comments It finally came! I had to order it from the UK and it took a little over 2 weeks. First I have to finish the Kendall biography, but yay, my book came!

Also, am I the only one that finds the title grammatically misleading? When I hear "Seventh Son" I think "Seventh male child of a couple" not "Seventh child who happens to be a boy."


message 2: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Yes. I think the first meaning is the generally accepted one.

BTW: This is a new title to me. What or who is the subject?


message 3: by MAP (new)

MAP | 181 comments It's a historical novel of Richard III. It's supposedly less romanticizing of his personality than many other novels.


message 4: by Susan (new)

Susan (boswellbaxter) | 418 comments I think he was actually the seventh boy (though some sites have him as the eighth). Several of his older brothers died in infancy.


message 5: by Ikonopeiston (last edited Jan 24, 2009 03:38PM) (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments According to the "Richard liveth yet" rhyme, he was the seventh.

A less romantic version would be welcome. Who is the author? - Silly me, I just looked up at your heading and there it was! Sorry about that.


message 6: by MAP (last edited Jan 24, 2009 03:43PM) (new)

MAP | 181 comments I was trying to get information on that (ie that he literally was the 7th son, living or dead, of Cecily&Richard, rather than just being the 7th living child of the two) but the almighty Wikipedia was less than forthcoming.

Off topic: I recently went to Mary Queen of Scot's page on Wikipedia, only to read on there that she was the "great grand niece of Henry VII." Which is total bull, since her grandmother was Henry VII's daughter, Margaret. So she is in fact that great grand DAUGHTER of Henry VII, and grand niece (no great) of Henry VIII. Grah. Wikipedia.


message 7: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments I should have said that according to the rhyme, he was the seventh son born to his parents. Interesting enough, if I am counting correctly, he is also the seventh surviving child who just happened to be a son. That is such a coincidence I am sure I miscounted somewhere in there.

The rhyme gives the children as:
Anne
Harry
Edward
Edmonde (Edmund)
Elizabeth
Margaret
William
John
George
Thomas
Richard
Ursula

There! I knew I must have done it wrong. I left out poor old Thomas who passed 'by the path of death to the heavenly place'. The rhymester does not tell us exactly what happened to Harry.





message 8: by MAP (new)

MAP | 181 comments So he's the 8th son born to Cecily, and their 7th living child, if the rhyme is correct.

Or am I counting wrong? Basic math is beyond me.


message 9: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
I've been wanting to read this for the longest time, although the library doesn't have it. I'll have to try for an interlibrary loan and see if I can snag it that way.


message 10: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments I have just proved any math at all is outside my expertise. That is the sum I got finally so with two of us getting the same answer we might consider it correct.


message 11: by Barb (new)

Barb | 145 comments Ikon,
Will you share the rhyme with us?



message 12: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Sure.

A Dialogue between a Secular and a Friar

Sir, after the tyme of long bareynesse,
God first sent Anne, which signygieth grace;
In tokenthat all her hertis heavynesse
He (as for bareynesse) wold fro hem chase.
Harry, Edward, and Edmonde, eche in his place
Succeeded; and after tweyn daughters came,
Elizabeth and Margarete; and afterwards William
John after William nexte borne was,
Which both be passed to God's grace,
George was nexte: and after Thomas
Borne was; which sone after did pace
By the path of death to the heavenly place;
Richard liveth yet. But last of alle
Was Ursula, to hym whom God list calle.

The spelling and punctuation (barring typos) are as I found them


message 13: by Barb (new)

Barb | 145 comments Thanks very much for sharing that!


message 14: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments It is my pleasure.

I was so delighted with the Book Depository that I have just this minute ordered the Tannahill The Seventh Son from them. I shall have to go dump some books off the shelf I have designated for Richard to make room for the British invasion.


message 15: by Barb (last edited Jan 25, 2009 06:27AM) (new)

Barb | 145 comments Ikon,
I got my copy of Tannahill's book from the UK through E-Bay. I like the family tree in the front of this book.

I know just what you mean about dumping the books off the shelf. I have a very tiny house with a small bookcase and I have to shuffle and weed several times a year.

Do you know about the library book sales? I frequent those when I can and I'm always so happy to find something on my list for $2 or less.



message 16: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments I have found a lot of splendid buys through the vendors of used books on both Amazon and BN. The prices are so low they boggle the mind. Also the Richard III Society weeds out its library from time to time and sells excess copies of books for nearly nothing.

I used to work for a used book seller and went to estate sales with her so I know how little used books go for at the wholesale level. Now if only more of the books I want would turn up in Kindle editions so that I don't have to dump well-loved books to make room. I always have this terrible feeling that the book I throw away today is the very one I am going to need or want in six months down the road.


message 17: by Barb (new)

Barb | 145 comments Ikonopeiston wrote: "I have found a lot of splendid buys through the vendors of used books on both Amazon and BN. The prices are so low they boggle the mind. Also the Richard III Society weeds out its library from ti..."

Yes, I know what you mean, I have actually thrown at least one back into the pond and had to get myself another copy.

I don't think I could ever go to the Kindle, I love the smell, the feel of books, turning the pages, flipping back to the family tree, etc...

I do absolutely love the electronic dictionary my husband got me for x-mas.


message 18: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Barb, one of the joys of the Kindle is carrying several hundred books in one hand. LOL

I know what you mean about the sensory delights of print books. I, obviously, still buy a lot of them but I do wish I would get the passing fiction in Kindle editions so that I don't have to allot scarce shelf space to them.

My favourite books to caress are the huge Dore-illustrated classics like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy. With their embossed bindings, they are a delight to all the senses.


message 19: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
I don't know if I could ever go for a kindle, but one of the advantages I've heard that interest me is the portability, i.e. going on vacation and having them all in that little device. Also, ease of taking to the gym (although I do like my little flipklip for keeping my books open whilst doing cardio). I think Ikon's mentioned you can mark them up with notes, etc. without damaging your book.

My favorite used sellers are thriftbooks and abe - although I always shop around, I don't just take the prices given from the Amazon sellers. Another neat trick (and it works on way more things than just books) is to use the google shopping search. It will find websites where your product is listed for sale so you can compare prices.


message 20: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments I have The Sunne in Splendour on the Kindle and have almost as many notes as Penman has text. I love the ability to mark the points in the text which are important etc. There is also a built in dictionary so that you can look up obscure words on the fly - as it were. The little thingie holds 200 books as it comes from Amazon. I have added a memory card so I can probably get around 800 books into my device now. That's a respectable library to carry around with you.

Sometimes when I am reading from the Kindle, I forget that it is an electronic gadget and reach up to the edge of the screen to turn the page.

BTW: I never worry about damaging a basic reference work. I mark them freely feeling that they become more valuable to me if I can find what I want without delay. (I am a vandal.)


message 21: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
Well, its OK when it's your book :)

I hate it when I have a book out from the library and find some previous borrower has had a pencil party with the damn thing. Got one of those now. Grrr, especially since some of that penciling is on the spoilerish side.


message 22: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments No, I'm not that much of a vandal and would never despoil a book I had not paid for. It is only recently I have dared to highlite passages I want to keep an eye on (just so you know, I never, never dog-ear a page.)

My volume of Kendall is a riot of markings!


message 23: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
I didn't think you were a vandal Ikon. I just saw a copy of Seventh Son used in good condition for $1.70 + S&H and I went for it, although with used sellers you keep your fingers crossed until you get a confirmation.


message 24: by MAP (new)

MAP | 181 comments I got a Kindle for Christmas, and so far I haven't put any new books on it, but I have bought my favorites so that when I travel I can have them all at my fingertips. I make about 1 international trip a year, with a 6 + hour flight, and I really think I'm going to like the Kindle for that.

I too have very little room in my apartment (trying to get more, if only my friend would come get the TV I just sold him so I can have that wall and buy some more shelves/bookcases/cabinets!) and find myself from time to time figuring out which books I have to take to Book Haven. Until then, I have books on shelves, on the floor, on my bedside table, on my coffee table, by the tub, in the kitchen....they're taking over.


message 25: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments That is so. I have got some great deals from used sellers but I am always on edge until I see the book. People sometimes lie. I also keep a list of the used sellers I have had good experiences with, just is case.

Looks like a lot of us are buying Seventh Son. Maybe that means we should read it as a group. I've never done that sort of thing. Does it work out well? Come to think of it, I have never done many things as part of a group. I think I am 'the cat who walks by himself and all places are alike to him.' LOL


message 26: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Hey MAP - it never gets any better. I live in a moderate sized house with a full daylight basement and a full attic. Every room in the house has bookshelves. There are boxes of books in the basement and more than three dozen boxes of books in the attic. I have two large bookcases in my bedroom and both of them are full of books double shelved. I have about forty books on my Kindle. And I have just ordered another book from Blighty. Abandon hope, you will never get ahead of your collection, not if you suffer from the addiction which seems to claim most of us around here. Bibliomania is a pernicious disease. ;)

BTW: the Whispernet used by the Kindle is a glory - when it is working right. Also, the fact that Amazon keeps copies of anything you buy from them for the thingie offers a nice backup system.


message 27: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
We can try to do it as a group read, but I'm not always very good with them. A lot of what's on the immediate pile is dictated not only by mood but the library holds as well :)

As for book storage, get those wide shelves where you can stack them two or three deep. Although then you have to remember what's behind what....


message 28: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments That's what I meant by double-shelving. It is a lot of fun to pull out the front layer and have the glorious surprise of discovering a bunch of books you had forgotten stowed away behind.

Why don't you people tell me to shut up? I think this is my 116th comment. Arrrrgh!


message 29: by Barb (last edited Jan 25, 2009 07:00PM) (new)

Barb | 145 comments
Ikon,
Let me know when you get the book...I'd be happy to do a "buddy read" with you and anyone else who would like to join us then is more than welcome.
:0)



message 30: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments You will have to tell me how a 'buddy read' works. I am a 'prentice in these things. ;)


message 31: by MAP (new)

MAP | 181 comments Seconded. I'd be happy to do a buddy read, but first I need to know what it is :)


message 32: by Barb (new)

Barb | 145 comments Oh, hmmm, well...
I thought you all knew how to do it and I'd just follow your lead!

Ha!
:0)

I participate in a real-live book club, I know how that works...do you want to just do it the way we do it in real life?

We pick a date to meet and when we get there we talk about the book...we like to have a rule that each person brings one idea/question/point to pose/share with the group.

What do you think?
I can bring brownies!
;0)



message 33: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Since this is the Internet, someone should bring cookies. %-}


message 34: by Barb (new)

Barb | 145 comments :0)


message 35: by MAP (new)

MAP | 181 comments Well according to my spyware scanner thing, I have 35 cookies, so I can spare a few.

Should we just set a date for the far future and discuss the whole book once its been read, or break it into chapters/pages/some other category and discuss it piecemeal?

(and here is where it's revealed that I'm a crazy detail-oriented planner, which, btw, is the only I survive grad school so it's actually a useful neurosis in at least one part of my life)


message 36: by Barb (new)

Barb | 145 comments Well Map,
Then we are kindred spirits!
I vote for discussing it once we're read the whole thing...should we wait for Ikon to get his copy in his hot little hand before we pick a date and time?


message 37: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Ikon is a she. LOL Shhhh.... don't tell anybody. (I do have little hands. My mother used to call them 'monkey paws'.)

If Book Depository is up to snuff, I should have it in a bit over a week. I like the idea of finishing the book before discussing it in depth. Although I see no reason not to vent if necessary whilst reading. ;)


message 38: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
There's a HF buddy reads group you can go look at, but all I see is they have a thread where they discuss the book while they're reading it. We can either break it up in sections like they do at European Royalty or just discuss it after we're all done.

Decisions decisions.


message 39: by Darkpool (new)

Darkpool | 91 comments Hmm. Sounds like I might have to get this out of the library so I can join in. I read it a few years ago now, and IIRC it vaguely annoyed me, but I have no recollection of why!


message 40: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Huzza! Loud cheers and much throwing of hats into the soggy air. The book has shipped! So now the vigil by the mail-box begins. ;)


message 41: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments The book finally came. Since it is going to be as cold as the proverbial witches tit here tonight and tomorrow, I do not intend to stir from the house - thus, I shall get started reading at once.


message 42: by MAP (new)

MAP | 181 comments huzzah! So when would we like to set the "Be done with it by" time?


message 43: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Unless everyone else has already finished, we had better take a vote. ;0


message 44: by MAP (last edited Feb 04, 2009 03:18PM) (new)

MAP | 181 comments I haven't even started; I knew you didn't have it so I took a Richard break to read Here Be Dragons.


message 45: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments OK. Let's take a vote. I am doing a lot of writing at the moment which may slow me down a bit. It's only about 400 pages, so two weeks should give plenty of time, I would think. What is your estimate?


message 46: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
Mine just showed today but my library holds are out of control so it's going to be a while for me.


message 47: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments I'm in no hurry, so any time is all right for me. I like to read Richard books slowly and savour every word.


message 48: by Misfit (new)

Misfit | 1139 comments Mod
No matter how slowly you savor I am sure you'll beat me, unless I call uncle and return some to the library.


message 49: by Barb (new)

Barb | 145 comments In my real-life book club we give ourselves a whole month. Does that sound agreeable, what do you all think?



message 50: by Ikonopeiston (new)

Ikonopeiston (Ikon) | 385 comments Fine with me.


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