Authors Society discussion
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Looking for a publisher
Werner, it seems you have two things at play here.First, define the genre of the work before you seek a publisher. Beyond the problem of submitting to the wrong house or imprint, editors will not accept a query without specified genre(s). Also, may I suggest investigating genre definitions more closely as you'll find the Romance genre is relationship centered and sexual situations are not a requirement.
Second, the reprint mention; reprint rights are granted by publishers, not authors. Assuming you have a statement from Silver Lake that your author rights have reverted, you are now seeking a publisher for previously published work. This must be stated in your query with the following:
previous publication date(s) of the work,
offer to forward proof the rights to the work have reverted,
brief accounting of the work’s previous publication success.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, M.c., that is helpful. In this case, the original contract allowed either party to void it, with a three-month notice, after two years, in which case the author rights would revert. Silver Lake went out of business without notifying their authors; but when this became apparent, on the advice of the Business Law teacher here at the college where I work, I sent them a registered letter canceling the contract. It's been more than three months since their receipt of the letter was confirmed; and I'll explain that in my queries.
Interesting situation you had with Silver Lake; most reputable publishers will offer a reversion of rights when shutting their doors.
Yes --I'm not sure what was going on there! I wasn't at all happy with the way they handled that, and don't feel it was very professional. On the other hand, while they were in business, they were easy to work with and held up their end faithfully; and I do owe them some gratitude for giving me a chance in the first place. Oh, well --all I can do is move on.Re some of your other comments in Message 2, you're right in pointing out that not all romance publishers require sexual situations. Christian publishers, among others, want clean romance --but they don't want vampires! To the extent that I gave any thought to genre, I think of Lifeblood as supernatural fiction; but in today's market, that term is superseded by "horror," and my work isn't especially horrific. I guess what I was trying to do was tell the story I wanted to, to reflect my own particular literary vision, without worrying too much about the commercial side of things while I was in the writing process. And writers who do that pay a price in terms of difficulty in marketing their work --but I still think it makes for intrinsically better books.
To add a bit to my original description, I thought of my audience as grown adults; but the Library of Congress cataloged the book as both "Vampires --Juvenile fiction" and "Vampires --Fiction," and I've gotten warm praise about it from both teens and little old ladies. (A public library teen reading group in West Virginia absolutely ate it up.) So I wouldn't be embarrassed to market it as YA fiction.
If your ms is HEA, it can be defined as Romance; add that to the description you've provided and the genre could very well be Paranormal Romance. There are publishers accepting sweet PR.If your ms is not written to an older market, it could be queried as YA. But again, you'll need to define the genre within YA.
Thanks, M.c! I have a dumb question --what does HEA stand for?
Happy Ever After is the literal meaning but the process is conflict and resolution with hero and heroine togther at the end of the tale.
Thanks, guys; I learned a new abbreviation! Yes, my book is definitely HEA --with plenty of conflict and resolution in the process. :-)
Are you a member of the Authors' Guild? The Authors' Guild has a very good program called, I believe, "Back in Print," which allows you to publish your book digitally through their program, so it will be available through online bookstores. If you are a member you can do this much more cheaply than through iuniverse or those other pod self-publishing systems. Only previously published books are acceptable though. You might look into it
Thanks, Linda! I'm not a member of the Authors' Guild, but I've heard good things about it. I'll keep that idea in mind.
Mod
Thanks, Robin! I'll definitely look into that lead, and see what happens.
You might also try Saimhain--they are a small publisher publshing some interesting books as well.
Werner, Samhain is my publisher for FR and a heads up, they are not the 'traditional press' you are seeking.
Thanks, M.C., that's helpful to know! I appreciate the heads-up.
M.C. wrote: "Werner, Samhain is my publisher for FR and a heads up, they are not the 'traditional press' you are seeking. "Oops, sorry, I didn't know. Didn't mean to guide you in a wrong direction Werner. Thanks for jumping in MC. :-)
No problem, Erin! I appreciate your interest. :-)
I'm an author with a book out under self-publishing Authorhouse. But the sequel to that book I want to go through a traditional publishing house.How, without having to suffer with an agent, do I do that?
Looks like I'm arriving late at the party here, but my one word of advice is to find the latest issue of Writer's Market (you can also buy it on line for a year), and go through it carefully to see what publishers are looking for material in your genre. You can save a lot of time and effort this way in zeroing in on who might be interested, and who won't. Prepare a good query letter, modifying each one to any specific requirements or "what we're looking for" information the publisher provides. Sit back, wait, and be prepared for a lot of waiting.
Nothing is easy. Nothiing is quick. But it's worth it in the long run.
Dorien
F.d. wrote: "I'm an author with a book out under self-publishing Authorhouse. But the sequel to that book I want to go through a traditional publishing house.How, without having to suffer with an agent, do..."
WIthout having to suffer with an agent? The problem is to FIND an agent. I'm in basically the same position, and all I ask for at present is to get an agent. There's lots of advice on how to do that, but it's hard work and not easy.
I agree. I had looked and looked for an agent, and only one replied on my manuscript. I got tired of looking and thought I could try and represent myself.
F.d. wrote: "I agree. I had looked and looked for an agent, and only one replied on my manuscript. I got tired of looking and thought I could try and represent myself."That's what I did. Of course I didn't know at the time that my query letters sucked and still do, but I decided to go directly after a publisher. I found Echelon in the Writer's Market after very little searching, with about 4 others, but they were the only ones interested, and since I wasn't planning to make writing my life's work, I wasn't concerned with their size. I later found out that they shouldn't even have been listed, that their production lag time was so long they couldn't predict what they'd want by the time the next edition came out. It turned out that the co-owner had done it behind her partner's back, one of the few good things she ever did.
I too have a book I'd like to see with a larger house, but I still can't write query lettters worth a damn. I can write a novel in the time it takes to even think about writing a synopsis. True pain, they are.
I was wondering if any of you would check out my new website about a book I just wrote. I need some feedback. There's a way to leave me comments on the site. Check it out. It's a fantasy story with dragons and monsters and teens fighting for good against evil. Warriorchildren.com is the website.Tell me what's boring or exciting, I'll be posting chapters on the blog page, so keep checking back if you like the story.I've received a few offers from POD publishers, but I'm really looking for a traditional agent or publisher. Because this is YA/MG I'm limited, surpisingly.
I'm also looking for a professional editor and or someone who will read the MS and tell me what is boring, needs explanation, leaving out, etc. With 15 rejections so far I'm beginning to question the validity of the MS at all.
There's no such thing as a POD publisher. POD is a printing technique used by publishers of all sorts. My publisher is a small, traditional publisher that uses POD. It's a cheap way to publish books, and a lot of the larger publisher's use it for their backlist.
Rebecca, ditto to what Marc said. Also, be wary of "professional" editing services. A lot of them are frauds who'll pocket your money and do nothing; and even some of those who do a decent editing job will way overcharge you --that happened to me with the company I used. (They're now out of business, after being caught paying kickbacks to publishers to "recommend" them.) You're better off learning to proofread diligently yourself, and to get critiques from fellow authors that you respect.Don't be intimidated by 15 rejections (I got a lot more than 15 for Lifeblood before I found the right publisher). ALL writers get rejections; Pearl Buck got a rejection letter for a story the same week she got her notification that she'd won the Nobel Prize for Literature! It doesn't mean your book is bad; the publisher may just prefer to market something different, or be overstocked with similar books, etc. Or he/she may just be a lousy judge of real quality --one of the many publishers who rejected Tony Hillerman's The Blessing Way told him, "if you insist on trying to rewrite this, at least leave out all that Indian junk!" :-)
Werner,This is tough---I wish you the best in securing another publisher for a reprint. Shame of Silver Lake Publishing for the unprofessional way they closed shop. Their authors deserved as much notice as SLP could provide. It is unfortunate that they had to go out of business, but that is unavoidable sometimes. It is inexcusable that they closed without properly notifying their authors.
The advice you are receiving on this thread is good. Clearly identify your genre. Don’t query Christian publishers. You are right; they won’t be interested in vampires. Supernatural/Fantasy Fiction or Supernatural/Fantasy YA Fiction may work as your defined genre. Also, as M.C. suggested, perhaps Paranormal Romance. As Linda said, The Authors’ Guild “Back in Print” digital program is a possibility to consider.
I agree, be very wary of “professional” editing or book doctor services. Some are reputable---but many are frauds that will exploit your vulnerability and your earnest need. Too many aren’t even adequately skilled. A lot of them receive undisclosed kickbacks from other editing services, some agents, and some publishers. It is an appalling practice that feeds upon inexperienced or desperate authors. Writers are smart to find people they know and trust that will thoroughly proofread material. Find skilled authors that will fair trade proofreading with you.
I’ve lost count of the exact number of rejections I’ve received in full. I’m not lying or exaggerating when I say that I’ve surely received a total of (for all my material: poetry, songs, short stories, articles, and novels) over 500+ rejections. I’m not talking about the agents/publishers I queried that never responded at all. I don’t count those hundreds. I don’t consider more than 50 as real rejections. Only about 50 allowed me to send them material to read. The reasons the others “rejected” my work is as varied as there are stars in the sky.
Please don’t allow rejects to hit you hard. Yes, they are disappointing. Yes, they are discouraging. Yes, we’d all rather an agent or publisher give us an interested response and then allow us to send them material to read. But, this is a volatile time in the publishing world. Much is rapidly changing or morphing into something else. Rejections don’t always have anything to do with our material. I’ve been rejected because agents already had too many clients. I’ve been rejected because publishers already did enough books "like mine" that year. One agent rejected me because (yes, she admitted this, I STILL have the email) a woman named Donna (my first name) stole away her husband and she despises the name Donna so much she will never work with anyone named Donna. Another thing to remember, agents and publishers are just people. They are reading the book they are able to comprehend and experience though their own eyes and their own emotional makeup. The book they are reading is not necessarily the one you wrote.
Keep trying. Stay encouraged. Don’t give up.
D.B. Pacini
I appreciate the advice, guys, and have no intention of quitting. I know I have a good thing here and just have to find someone in publishing to agree.
Is there a kind and knowledgeable person out there who can recommend a reputable agent for a writer who has had two short story collections selected for publication in two years.My publisher is a small independent with a college affiliation. I believe my collection would be classified as literary, as several of the included stories have been selected as finalists by Glimmer Train.My latest, has cover endorsements from two impressive Ph.D's.
I'm looking for someone who will "work me like a dog." Thanks.
Dear Joseph,
Finding the agent who is right for you and your work will take some looking on your part. Two good places to start your research:
(1) www.writersservices.com , The Writers and Artists Yearbook website has an extensive list of US literary agents and their websites and some excellent advice about finding an agent
(2) www.everyonewhosanyone.com, zany but really helpful website that also lists agents' websites .
It's worth spending some time checking out different agents and what they want. Not all agents represent short stories. Avoid any who want a "reading fee". Make a shortlist and send out letters of inquiry to everyone. Remember that agents like to see their names spelled correctly,appreciate brevity, and require you enclose an SAE . Do not worry about the inevitable rejections, accept it's part of the process. Send enough letters and someone eventually will say yes.
Finding the agent who is right for you and your work will take some looking on your part. Two good places to start your research:
(1) www.writersservices.com , The Writers and Artists Yearbook website has an extensive list of US literary agents and their websites and some excellent advice about finding an agent
(2) www.everyonewhosanyone.com, zany but really helpful website that also lists agents' websites .
It's worth spending some time checking out different agents and what they want. Not all agents represent short stories. Avoid any who want a "reading fee". Make a shortlist and send out letters of inquiry to everyone. Remember that agents like to see their names spelled correctly,appreciate brevity, and require you enclose an SAE . Do not worry about the inevitable rejections, accept it's part of the process. Send enough letters and someone eventually will say yes.
Helen wrote: "Send enough letters and someone eventually will say yes. "On what evidence do you base this interesting theory?
I think Helen is right.Still, it's a matter of how far you want to go with your career as a writer. My advice to newer writers is to not rush to see your name on a book. Instead fight the temptation to get your book out too quickly and wait until it is as perfect as you can get it. A lot depends on that first book.
Also, don't just accept any publisher. Some will do little or nothing to help market your work. That, obviously, is not a good thing.
Buona Fortuna!
I almost hate to throw a spanner in the works but no one has mentioned electronic publishing and I'm curious as to why?ePublishing is a growing industry, with most major bookstores now having an online store selling electronic products. The classic case is Barnes & Noble who recently bought up Fictionwise for about 17,000,000 - so not small change. Also Amazon and other retailers now consider eBooks to be significant products.
The other advantage is it is very cheap and sometimes free to get published electronically and it could be a good stepping stone to getting known as an author.
I've seriously considered this option but from what I've seen traditional pubs won't look at a MS that is POD or ebook. BUT, it can be a jumping off spot and if your sales are good enough one might pick you up. Rock and a Hard Place.
Rebecca wrote: "I've seriously considered this option but from what I've seen traditional pubs won't look at a MS that is POD or ebook. BUT, it can be a jumping off spot and if your sales are good enough one migh..."I write mainly crime fiction and I started off wanting to be paperback published. The only way I could get a book into paperback (ten years ago) was to to go to a vanity publihser and it was a rip off BUT I discovered one important thing - most new authors sell very few books initially. It takes time to get known and recognised unless you are EXTREMELY lucky like a certain JK Rowling who actually self-published the first edition of Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone - which sold 100 copies - and then she was lucky enough to get spotted after another 26 publishers rejected her and ... the rest is history. Fact is for most authors selling 100 copies is a challenge.
With ePublishing that is a lot easier as the costs are lower. If you have a few stories in you, I suggest thinking about getting the first one or two ePublished and then look round for a trad publisher.
You might also want to see what the publisher will do for you - and what the royalties are like.
I'd suggest you think about looking at my own modest publshing company at www.fiction4all.com and go to the author suite. Then click on the guidelines to get the royalties and other terms. One advantage of going ePub is your book is immediately available worldwide and we also publish on other sites such as Fictionwise to get increased sales.
Well, I'm still looking primarily at print publication for my book; many readers (including me) find it inconvenient to read large blocs of text electronically, so I'm aiming mostly at the print segment of the market. But I've been willing for a few months now to go the pay-to-be published route, at least as a temporary measure for the 100+ readers who already have Lifeblood on their to-read lists. (I still would recommend that a beginning author seek out a traditional publisher, to get his/ her book properly vetted and edited --but I already did that!) I'm reconciled to the idea that if a company handles the formatting and printing, they deserve to get some money for it, though I'd still prefer to work with one that just takes their money out of sales, not up-front. The problem is finding a reputable publisher to work with, even on this basis.Earler this summer, I actually had the book listed with lulu.com, but I couldn't preview it; when I paid for a sample copy, I found they'd not only left my name off, but printed each page in very small text at the center, with huge margins all around it. (It's possible I messed up the instructions, but I don't see how.) Having cancelled that, I'm trying to list the book on blurb.com; but formatting the book on their BookSmart software has been an absolute, long drawn out nightmare --compounded by the fact that when I do get time to work on it, it usually boots me off for an "error" (theirs, not mine :-)).
By now, I'm at the place where I'd love to find a company that will format the text themselves (and ideally let me preview it), and which will produce a quality product without swindling me. One of my Goodreads friends who's also an author warned me, from experience, that BookSurge is a terrible company to work with and cares nothing about quality once they get your money (and I've seen one of their typo- ridden products!); and I've also been warned about Publish America and apprised of the horror stories there.
Another friend had a book published by XLibris; I think he was happy with the results, and my copy was professionally done. Does anybody else have any experience, good or bad, with that company? Or any other words of wisdom, or recommendations backed by experience? I'll be doing some research myself on the Internet, but I figured that the collective wisdom of this group is a resource that's well worth tapping into! Thanks for anything you can tell me.
I am published through Eloquent Books of New York. They are a relatively new company. It's POD. It's a good way to get your work out there when you've exhausted all your time with traditional publishers. They produce a good book, but you will need the same thing i.e. a professional editor, to edit. I did my own editing and I am now finding a lot of mistakes -- mine, not theirs. I also am using their PR and Marketing Department and so far, so good. Check them out.
Thanks, John! I'll look them up on the Internet, and see what they offer.
My book, Becoming Alice, A Memoir, was publihed by Iuniverse over two years ago. they did a good job editing the book and it looked quite good. I was able to sell a large enough quantity on my own (forget about getting help in marketing from a publiher, any publiher) and they took me into a recognition sprogram called the Star Program. With that the book cover was redesigned, some minor changes were made to the manuscript, and I got ome very minor marketing help. Also, iUniverse joined Author House and there were about three months when nothing much happened. I am still doing all the marketing on my own, with some limited sucdess. And I really don't know how it would be for a new author to use iUniverse. But I think it certainky is worth checking out. I know the PODs you've mentioned are suspect.
Keep looking, thoug. And don't give up! Good luck.
Thanks, Alice! I'll definitely check Iuniverse out.
By way of update, the SFFWA (Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America) website has a page of Alerts for Writers warning writers about various scams preying on the literary market. Some of them are shady self/subsidy-publishing operations. The URL for that page is http://www.sfwa.org/BEWARE/general.html . That might be a worthwhile resource for others to check out, too.iUniverse isn't on their list; but I've learned that since Alice's book was published, they've been taken over by a conglomerate, which forced a relocation that resulted in the lost of the CEO and most of the experienced staff. Reportedly, the replacements have been largely inexperienced and inept, resulting in some pretty serious performance issues. That's a pity, since the site that reported this indicates that they were previously a very reliable company!
Just FYI, when making a link you have to leave off the last period or put a space in front of it, otherwise the url won't work.
Thanks, Marc, that was helpful! Just now, I edited my post, and I've verified that the link works now. (I guess I should have verified it to start with. :-)) I'll have to remember that pointer.
Thanks, both Werner and Alice, for your comments. I too am an iUniverse author, and got caught in the middle of the move to Bloomington (with 5 different PSAs), although I didn't realize that was the result of a takeover. I originally went with them after trying for years to get my novel "Sardinian Silver" accepted by a major publishing house--and also after hearing a talk in my home town of Kingston, Ontario, by the then CEO, Susan Driscoll. I can only agree with Werner that, as far as I can see at present, "the replacements have been largely inexperienced and inept." Indeed I wonder whether it isn't becoming something of a scam, with their making money more out of the fees for the services they offer. I've spent a lot on these, perhaps unwisely. The publicist has been largely a waste of money, with press releases certainly sent out, but of course newspapers receive hundreds of these things and they all have to REQUEST book copies for review, and so far it seems that none have. Well, one can take a horse to water but can't force it to drink. (I should be able to think of something better than that old cliche!) Despite what was in my contract, I have received no personal contacts with media, and no radio interviews except for iUniverse Radio. Nor, despite my complaints, have I received weekly updates.That being said, iUniverse has done some things well. The book was well designed and nicely put together. Initial editorial comments were useful. And they did provide me with press releases, which I have made a great deal of use of in advertising it elsewhere, plus a couple of paid reviews. In fact they've done well what, basically, is easy, but have let me down as far as any real marketing is concerned. Would I go with them again? Yes, but failing all else.
Alice: I see incidentally that you too are on Authorsden.com. I find this a great site, and I've been putting a lot of my stories and articles on it too, so at least I can say I have a few readers. With iUniverse I'm still at the stage of being a "rising star" author and hoping eventually to get to "star," although the monthly sales report received today is most disappointing. Well, the book has only been out since October, and perhaps I'm expecting too much too soon. I certainly agree that one has to do a lot of publicity onself.
I was interested to see what you got from the promotion to "star," as I too have a number of small changes I need to make. Did they change the cover to add reviews? I couldn't see any on yours, but then I haven't seen the reverse.
I certainly intend to order your book. It will have to wait for a little, however, as I'm away and can't get at my mail-and when it goes to my home, in an apartment, the post often just leaves a message for me to pick it up. If I order it with other books, as I do with Amazon to avoid postage costs, it risks being sent back.
Finally, I suppose I should give a plug once again to myself, in hopes. My novel is "Sardinian Silver," and there is a lot of information on my three sites: www.sardiniansilver.com, www.acolinwright.ca and of course www.authorsden.com/acolinwright.
Good luck!
Hello A Colin, I can appreciate the fact that you are disappointed in the lack of marketing help given by iUniverse. I can only say the situation would be the same even if you'd have gotten a contract from a "traditional" publisher.Except for the fact that you may have gotten reviews from sources considered superior to those available to POD published books, and except for a few ads in some newspapers, journals, etc., the rest of the marketing falls on the shoulders of the authors. It is tough out there in today's publishing world.Re Author's Den: I like the company very much. I got to know the owners when I purchased space in their booth at the L.A. Times Festival of books last April. Since then I haven't been able to generate any sales through them. I have been working the Goodreads site lately and, although the final word isn't in yet, I think I may end up doing better with them.
As to the marketing, my biggest success has been going to the local community via book stores, book clubs, libraries, temples, community centers, etc. etc. It seems face to face works best for me. I am trying to expose "Becoming Alice" to the internet market but don't know if that will work for me. I'll keep you posted.
Meanwhile, good luck!
I'm posting ADVICE for emerging writers ... tips on agents, handling criticism, time vs. talent ...http://bridgetasher.blogspot.com/
Julianna Baggott, author of THE PRINCE OF FENWAY PARK,
http://princeoffenwaypark.com
http://theanybodies.com (aka N.E. Bode)
http://juliannabaggott.com
Alice wrote: "Hello A Colin, I can appreciate the fact that you are disappointed in the lack of marketing help given by iUniverse. I can only say the situation would be the same even if you'd have gotten a contr..."She's quite right. I'm multi-published and I'm doing whatever I can to help my books. You are not alone. All authors have been forced to become promoters. I'm reading a new book on Market though social networking. Plus drop by J Konrath's blog. He gives great advice on author marketing.
Lyn
Lifeblood is vampire fiction, but it's not grisly-gory, erotic, or highly violent, so most vampire fiction publishers aren't interested in it. It could be considered a paranormal romance, but it isn't steamy and the couple don't have sex, so it doesn't attract the romance publishers. And it's written from a Christian perspective (though the religious elements are low-key), but the usual reaction from Christian publishers is that it's anathema because it's about a vampire. (Apart from the folks at Silver Lake, about the only people who like it, apparently, are the ordinary readers!) So, these factors somewhat narrow my options. :-) I'm looking for a traditional press, (though I don't care if it's small, and I don't object to POD technology --which Silver Lake used, and which makes so much sense, from both a business and an environmental standpoint, that I don't see why every publisher doesn't use it!). Also, I don't have an agent, so that's another hoop I can't jump through.
If any of you folks in this group have a suggestion for me, I'll be glad for any advice I receive. I've got two or three feelers out now; but I'm thinking it might take more than that to get results. Thanks for anything you can tell me!