The Rory Gilmore Book Club discussion

Music, Movies, & Miscellany > Snape (spoiler if you haven't read HP7)

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message 1: by Robbie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:13PM) (new)

Robbie Bashore | 592 comments Just wanted to respond to the last Snape comment, but didn't want to continue on the Christmas Carol thread because we're not supposed to. (I haven't started reading A Christmas Carol yet, anyway. I'm always ready for a Harry Potter discussion, though.)

Michelle, I disagree with your take on the Snape/Lily situation. Snape had begun hanging around other wizards who were dabbling in the dark arts while he and Lily were still friends. She was critical of those associations, but I don't think she got really angry with him until he called her a mudblood after she scolded James for hanging Snape upside down with his underwear showing.

So, I think Snape chose power and the dark arts over his relationship with Lily before she rejected him. It's probably this point at which the parallel ends (though, again, I haven't read the other book). Snape was hoping to still have Lily, even though she wasn't his top priority. It was Voldemort who betrayed him, and Lily's death along with Voldy's betrayal that left him alone and bitter. (It could be argued, though, that Snape had felt rejected earlier, because we don't necessarily see any evidence of Lily thinking of him in a romantic way.)

BTW, I thought it was so cool that Snape asked Harry to look at him as he was dying. I had been waiting a long time to find out why JKR had everybody make a big deal about him having his mother's eyes!

message 2: by Michelle (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Michelle (literarilyspeaking1) Hmm... I didn't think of it that way...

Good point, Robbie.

I do think, though, that Snape's bitterness started much earlier, before he even met Lily and Petunia. He was always teased, which would make anyone bitter. However, he wasn't nearly as down and out as he came to be as time went on.

message 3: by Sarah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) Didn't Snape already seem interested in the dark arts when he and Lily first met on the playground? I'm not sure, I need to reread it.

message 4: by Robbie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Robbie Bashore | 592 comments Well, I don't remember about the dark arts specifically, but I'm pretty sure he was against muggle-borns (until meeting Lily). There's a part when he kind of edits himself when telling her about Hogwarts.

Yeah, I think he was bitter at a very young age, but I think Lily really brightened his life and gave him some hope--maybe the only hope he ever had outside the "other" crowd.

I was very relieved to find out Snape was on the "good" side, ultimately. If he hadn't been, I think I would have felt terrible! There was a part of me that sympathized with him. could be like discussing Elphaba again.

message 5: by Michelle (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Michelle (literarilyspeaking1) I was soooooooo mad when I found out Snape was good (As he's questioning Harry in GoF in the background here...). I don't know why, but I just hated him so much that it just angered me to think he had this huge crush on Lily.

However, now that I know the whole story, a lot of things from the first six books makes sense. Still, not a fan of that whole turn. Bah.

message 6: by Sarah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) I was THRILLED! I knew it all along. I just thought it was too obvious for him to be bad, so he had to be good. My husband actually called the whole Snape-loves-Lily thing about a month before the book came out.

message 7: by Robbie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Robbie Bashore | 592 comments I made notes in a journal after having read book 6 and re-reading all the others (for the ?6th? time). I called the Snape's in love with Lily, Voldemort promised to save her but didn't, thing. I thought Petunia was talking about Snape when she said "that awful boy" talked about dementors. I hadn't imagined them meeting as children, though, that was cool.

message 8: by Sera (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Sera I always sensed that there was more to Snape than meets the eye. Throughout the series, there were times when Snape helped Harry, even though he could have sealed Harry's fate. Plus, Dumbldore supported Snape and he couldn't be wrong, could he?

I also love the guy who plays Snape in the movies; he has that character down with the greasy-looking hair and all!

message 9: by Michelle (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Michelle (literarilyspeaking1) Alan Rickman is amazing. It's so weird to see him in other roles which are completely opposite of Snape.

message 10: by Sarah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) I agree. I love Alan Rickman.

Sera, I always believed Snape to be good too, but I don't think Dumbledore's judgment is always to be trusted. Look at how long he trusted Grindelwald. Granted, love can sometimes blind you, but I don't think Dumbledore is infallible.

message 11: by Sera (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:14PM) (new)

Sera Sarah, you raise a good point about Dumbledore, he is definitely not infallible. But I guess if Rowling had a choice in making him right versus Harry about Snape, I would figure that she would pick Dumbledore, because he was Harry's mentor.

Ah, and thank you and Michelle for reminding that Alan Rickman played Snape. Rickman is an excellent actor all around.

message 12: by whichwaydidshego, the sage of sass (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:15PM) (new)

whichwaydidshego | 1996 comments Mod
Okay, first... LOVE Alan Rickman. Sense and Sensibility anyone??

Then I would have to say I disagree with you for the first time, I think, Robbie! I don't think that Snape chose power and dark arts before Lily rejected him. I think they were alluring to him because he was so powerless at home, but he hadn't chosen yet because in his friendship with her he felt a belonging - and indeed a hope - that kept him from jumping into it. Love conquers all is pretty much Rowling's main theme. Unfortunately his dabbling in those thing brought into his life the influences that heightened his "racism" and is what ultimately drove Lily away.

Lastly, in book six I knew that the reason Dumbledore believed Snape had truly repented, changed, was because he loved Lily. I wrote it in the margin. Oh, and I was glad that he turned out good. I think it's amazing that he turned out to be the one MOST looking out for Harry above all else. Also, he was the one that sacrificed the most.

I love those books! And I don't think I've read any other books as many times as I have those - I rarely re-read... but many times? Fahgeddaboutit. My very top shelf favorites I have read several times, and will continue to. But with Harry, it's like visiting with very dear, old friends for a few weeks when I read them all again!

message 13: by Michelle (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:15PM) (new)

Michelle (literarilyspeaking1) Does anyone else love Kenneth Branaugh (I can't remember how to spell his name right now...), who plays Prof. Lockhart in CoS.

I have had an ongoing fight with a friend from college about whether or not he's a brilliant Shakespearean actor. He says he's not because he takes ego into account. I agree on the ego, but also think he's absolutely brilliant (Has anyone seen his Hamlet? Wow...).

Of course, we both agree that playing Lockhart was the best move he ever made, because he was totally making fun of the way he's portrayed in the British press.

Okay, that was a random babble session. Sorry!

message 14: by Sarah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:15PM) (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) He IS a brilliant Shakespearean actor, and also director. I loved him in Much Ado About Nothing.

message 15: by Robbie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:16PM) (new)

Robbie Bashore | 592 comments Michele,

I don't disagree with you on your points.

Just curious, do you (or does anyone else) think Lily ever had romantic feelings for Snape. I got a sense their relationship was one where she thought it was a close friendship, but he was in love. (How many times have I been the "in love" one in those kinds of relationships?)

Michele, glad to hear someone else has re-read those so many times. I think after book 6 I even re-read them in reverse order :)

message 16: by whichwaydidshego, the sage of sass (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:16PM) (new)

whichwaydidshego | 1996 comments Mod
Robbie, she doesn't really make it clear what Lily's feelings were, but I did think it was as you said... but partly perhaps because Snape kept his feelings largely hidden. He didn't trust himself well enough to express them at the times they needed expressing, then it was too late.

That's so funny you re-read them backwards! Before book 7 I again reread all the other 6, then after reading book 7 I immediately began on book 6 again followed by 7. I was like a junkie on crack. I had to detox after that or I might have kept going!

message 17: by Sarah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:16PM) (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) I re-read them every time a new movie or book comes out. I've only read 7 once, though, because I've had so many others on my to-read list. But every once in a while I just get in the mood to visit Hogwarts.

The DVD comes out tomorrow!

message 18: by whichwaydidshego, the sage of sass (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:16PM) (new)

whichwaydidshego | 1996 comments Mod
I've been craving a return trip lately.

As for the movies, when I lived in DC I'd always have the videos in while doing work around the house, etc.,
1) because I could leave the room to do things and not miss anything since I knew it all, &
2) because, again, it was like staying in touch with old friends... the movies may not do the books - specifically the characters - justice, but it was enough to stay "close" to my friends!

The DVD comes out tomorrow? Shoot, another movie to add to my list!

message 19: by Robbie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:16PM) (new)

Robbie Bashore | 592 comments I feel rather sorry for future readers of this series who won't have years between installments to ponder the mysteries! I think with each release I read the new book twice then re-read the whole series. After book 6 is when I read the book twice, then reread the series, then read in reverse order, and I may have read the series again just before 7 came out--honestly can't remember. I've read book 7 twice, but haven't re-read the whole series again. I probably will sometime.

My children (now ages 5 and 6) love Harry Potter movies. I've probably seen Prisoner of Azkaban a few dozen times (their favorite, because Voldemort doesn't appear in it.) I really appreciate DVD technology, since it allows us to skip right past the cemetary scene and other yucky ones. I feel the need to say that my husband is the one to introduce the first HP movie to them.

message 20: by whichwaydidshego, the sage of sass (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:16PM) (new)

whichwaydidshego | 1996 comments Mod
One good thing my ex did was (finally) get me into Harry Potter. I owe him that at least. He owes me $30,000.

Not sure if it was a fair trade.

message 21: by Robbie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 02:18PM) (new)

Robbie Bashore | 592 comments Exes suck!

I decided last night I need to share a bit of family fun that goes on around here. My kids love to play Harry Potter. Every one in the house--and a few neighbors and babysitters--has a role. I'm Professor McGonagal (please excuse spelling errors), my husband alternates between Ron and Snape (the latter because he does a great "Don't. Lie. To me."), my daughter is Hermione, and my son is Harry. Even the animals get into the act--the cat is Crookshanks and the dog is Hedwig. But here's the funniest part: the kids chose for Vodemort--and I swear they got no prompting from the adults--a stuffed Barney!

message 22: by whichwaydidshego, the sage of sass (last edited Dec 12, 2007 07:31PM) (new)

whichwaydidshego | 1996 comments Mod
OMG Robbie! That is HYSTERICAL!!! And I love-love-love that you play these things as a family. Absolutely fantastic!

Maybe you should be Mollie Weasley now and then... I think she's pretty great!

And yes... exes suck.

message 23: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) Most exes suck. Every once in a while there's a good one in the bunch. ;)

But Michele, yours sounds like the suckiest one of all!

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