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Book Issues > NOT A BOOK??

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message 1: by Eva Marie (new)

Eva Marie (evamarie3578) | 755 comments This is a calendar and I have never changed anything to NOT A BOOK before so I wanted to throw it in here!

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60...

Thanks...again! :)


message 2: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Actually, I deleted it. It's not on Amazon, so the not-a-book maneuver is not necessary.

But yes, calendars are almost always not-a-book fodder.


message 3: by Eva Marie (new)

Eva Marie (evamarie3578) | 755 comments Thanks a lot- I wasn't sure what to do. I hate having to bother you all the time whenever I see something more difficult than just combining but I'd hate to make a mistake! LOL
I am learning by watching you! :)


message 4: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
I think I speak for many here when I say, we'd MUCH rather you ask!


message 5: by Heidi (new)

Heidi | 6 comments What about coloring and/or sticker books?


message 6: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Almost always NOT A BOOKs.


message 7: by Heidi (new)

Heidi | 6 comments Thank you!


message 8: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments What about a 'Radio Dramatization' of a book, i.e. where the book has been adapted and performed by a cast?

I tend to think that these are NOT A BOOK, just like the movie version would be NOT A BOOK.


message 9: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Those are pretty close to an audio book though.


message 10: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) | 52 comments http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29...

What about this? I'm assuming since they are postcards, it is not a book, but I can see how it might be ambiguous.


message 11: by Lobstergirl (new)

Lobstergirl http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66...

I can't tell whether this is a book. It's not imported from Amazon and I couldn't find it on Amazon. If it was published in 2009 why doesn't it have an ISBN?


message 12: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Vegan (lisavegan) | 2409 comments Angie, I'd say NAB but others, including Rivka and other supers, might disagree with me.

Lobstergirl,

This is what I found for your item:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...

I guess that's why it doesn't have an ISBN. Personally, I'd message the member who added it and ask if it's a book, and if it is, if they could please add some more information about it.


message 13: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Lisa wrote: "Angie, I'd say NAB but others, including Rivka and other supers, might disagree with me."

Yeah, I do disagree. It is bound and has text on each page. Probably at least as much text as a child's board book.


As for the second, it seems to be a legitimately self-published(?) book.


message 14: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Vegan (lisavegan) | 2409 comments Rivka, I'll definitely cede to you, but I've seen these books and the ones I've seen the postcards are meant to be torn out and sent as cards. That's why I thought NAB. If I'd seen this I would have left it alone though.


message 15: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
I know they are. But many people collect them as books and don't tear out the cards at all.


message 16: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) | 52 comments http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12...

I'm guessing this is NAB since it is a coloring book, but there is a line of text on each page explaining what the illustration is/what style the art is in/what objects are include... Soo it might pass as an art book... What should be done?

(I was sent this as a gift and after my initial pleasure at flipping through it, I went "hmmm maybe this is on goodreads since it has an ISBN and it's a book...." :P)


message 17: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Um, that's not marked NAB. Are you asking if it should be? Because I don't think it should.


message 18: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) | 52 comments Yeah, I was wondering if it should be or not.


message 19: by Mont'ster (new)

Mont'ster | 5 comments Angie, I would say leave it as a book just b/c it looks really cool (although thats probably not the best argument :-)


message 20: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Is this NOT A BOOK? It does include a leader's guide.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/65...


message 21: by Melody (new)

Melody (runningtune) | 13258 comments I'd say it's not a book.


message 23: by Melody (new)

Melody (runningtune) | 13258 comments The first one is a 10 pack - so it definitely is not a book.

The other two - I think should remain as books.


message 24: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
I agree with Melody on all 4.


message 25: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments OK. I will NAB the first two, keep the last two. Thanks.


message 26: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Just to confirm: puzzles are NOT-A-BOOK right? The example below is a book of puzzles. Can someone confirm before I NAB it?

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16...


message 27: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Yes, and yes.


message 28: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Thanks. NAB'd.


message 29: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
FYI, I just reviewed our guidelines. Puzzle books are books; puzzles are not. This one is close to the line, but I think on the NAB side.


message 30: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Just to clarify for future reference: This was not a "puzzle book", i.e. brain teasers or whatever, but a book that contained four jigsaw puzzles. The only difference from any other jigsaw puzzle was the packaging.


message 31: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Exactly.


message 32: by Lobstergirl (new)

Lobstergirl vicki_girl wrote: "Just to confirm: puzzles are NOT-A-BOOK right? The example below is a book of puzzles. Can someone confirm before I NAB it?

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16......"


I think that should've been kept a book. The description says it's a board book with 10 pages. Who cares if the pages have puzzle pieces on them? Like with a book of postcards, some people will keep that as a book, and other people will tear out the postcards. I think if something is in codex form we should err on the side of calling it a book. Even if it has no words. Lots of books have no words.


message 33: by Ralph Gallagher (new)

Ralph Gallagher | 212 comments I have to agree with Lobstergirl. Amazon's product description is "Discover the magical world of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" and "Through the Looking-Glass" with these four 48-piece mini jigsaw puzzles. Each puzzle is accompanied by an extract abridged from Lewis Carroll's classic stories, and there is also a collection of some of his most famous nonsense poems and songs. Amongst the favourite characters featured are the Cheshire Cat and Humpty Dumpty." Sounds like a book to me.


message 34: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Ralph wrote: "Each puzzle is accompanied by an extract abridged from Lewis Carroll's classic stories, and there is also a collection of some of his most famous nonsense poems and songs."

Ah, in that case I agree.


message 35: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Mixed Prepack =! Repack, although I definitely see how easy it would be to get confused.


message 36: by vicki_girl (last edited Mar 11, 2010 09:57AM) (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments rivka wrote: "Ralph wrote: "Each puzzle is accompanied by an extract abridged from Lewis Carroll's classic stories, and there is also a collection of some of his most famous nonsense poems and songs."

Ah, in that case I agree."


Ok, I put it back. Thanks for adding the description Ralph. :)


message 37: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
I'm not even sure where you got that list of NT Michael's from.


message 38: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Again, prepack is not the same as repack. The former is more than one book packaged together for transportation to a reseller. The latter is just a re-issuing of a book. So the first is not a book and the latter is.

Books being marked as "not a book" should keep all their other info. There's no reason to delete publisher, publication year, etc. And to make it easier to find them should there be an issue later (as with the puzzle book above), it's useful that they all be marked "not a book", rather than "nab" -- although we often use the latter acronym when discussing them. They do sometimes need to be checked on later, either because of errors or judgment calls that are later overridden or any number of other possibilities. As well as the fact that there may be different methods to deal with them added (as the indicator within the book record was added) in the future.

Consistency is important.


message 39: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Vickie wrote: "I am sorry that you have issues with what I do. I am trying to comply with your requests. Frankly, I think you are wrong about the stuff mentioned in the paragraphs above."

Vicki, I think what you meant to say is, "Okay, I understand that you're clarifying current librarian policies. However, I think it would be better to remove all of the information from the record and so I'd like to reopen a discussion of this policy."

Assuming that I have correctly interpreted you here:

I can see your point that the only way to remove books from search results is to remove all of their other information entirely. However, I agree with the current policy that it's better to have "NOT A BOOK" results occasionally show up than to have users confronted with completely blank records for valid ISBNs in the case of a mistaken NABbing. It doesn't happen very often, but I'd say I've seen about one a month -- and while librarians can always look at a book's change log to see what it used to be, a regular user has no information at all.


message 40: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Vickie wrote: "As a matter of interest to me, are there other people who irritate you as much as I do?"

*blink* Huh? I'm just trying to answer what you asked. I'm not irritated, particularly. Should I be?

And I specifically went and fixed three specific books marked "repack" that you had NAB'd. They were the main reason I sent you a message.


message 41: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments I don't actually work for GR -- I'm just another volunteer! I'm speaking up because I've been hanging around for long enough that I've picked up a few things. :)

You have read through the librarian's manual, yes? It tries to be comprehensive, although it doesn't cover everything yet. There's a section of this group for "library manual additions" -- that's meant to be for people to distill these discussions into short forms useful for the manual, but as with most volunteer projects, it's easier to put energy and time into doing than into documenting! It can be difficult to know what you don't know, but if you're not clear on the details of a certain librarian task, you can always ask here.

(The prepack issue seems to be a question of specific edits that you and rivka are discussing; I don't know what's going on there.)


message 42: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Vickie, I'm not sure what you're expecting to get from the Feedback group: librarian policies are discussed and decided in this group. The librarian's manual is the closest we have to complete and non-ambiguous instructions around here, and if you're inclined to take on some volunteer technical writing once you feel more comfortable with following the discussions as they occur, I'm sure more contributions to the manual would be quite welcome!


message 43: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Vickie wrote: "I haven't heard any more from Rivka"

Because I'm not really sure what more to tell you. Cait's been doing an excellent job.


message 44: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Ok, I am fairly certain this is NOT-A-BOOK

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/67...

However, it has been added to a listopia list (see "lists with this book"). Is it ok to delete the book from the list and NAB it?


message 45: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
Better to delete the book, re-import, and NAB. I did so.


message 46: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Does anyone know what a "Super Proof" is?

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24...

I'm not sure if the above should be NAB'd or not. Google and Worldcat did not turn up any additional info.


message 47: by Nihonjoe (new)

Nihonjoe | 76 comments I'm wondering if all of these NOT A BOOKs might work better if a "not a book" checkbox was added to the database entry, which would make it not appear in the visible database, but still be there so it wouldn't be imported from Amazon again?


message 48: by Eva Marie (new)

Eva Marie (evamarie3578) | 755 comments Nihonjoe, you can check 'not a book' in the media type near the bottom of the editing page. Is this what you mean or did I misunderstand?


message 49: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42044 comments Mod
vicki, I think it should be nabbed, but first merged with a real edition to move over the shelvings. (I see not a single bookseller with it for sale, it's not listed at all on WorldCat, and I find no evidence of it being a real book that was ever sold.)


message 50: by vicki_girl (new)

vicki_girl | 2765 comments Okay. I merged it and then NAB'd it.


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