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The Dragon Reborn (The Wheel of Time, #3)
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The Wheel of Time > DRAGON REBORN - Chapters 14 through 27 **SPOILERS**

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message 1: by Jon (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 706 comments Most of these chapters happen within or near Tar Valon and the White Tower.

What do you think of the Amyrlin Seat's gambit of sending two Accepted mice on a search for Black Ajah raven?

And Selene returns, to the very heart of Aes Sedai power, apparently having given up on luring Rand or Perrin to the Dark Side, now setting her sights on Mat.

I always struggle with Mat's chapters. I freely admit, he's probably my least favorite character of all the Two Rivers folks.

I've reach Chapter 25 with only a couple more to go for this week's reading.


message 2: by Jon (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 706 comments Oh, and I almost forgot, for first time readers, pay particular attention to Egwene's third testing vision. Unlike Nyanaeve's (from Chapter 23 The Testing in The Great Hunt), you may want to mark Chapter 23 Sealed of the The Dragon Reborn to return to after reading later books in the Wheel of Time series.


Alex | 104 comments Lots of washing dishes. Every Aes Sedai looks like a darkfiend. These gray men don't look like very good assassins considering how dangerous they're supposed to be. I lost count of how many failed attempts they've made on people just in Tar Valon. Then there was the one at the beginning of the Great Hunt who failed too.

Either the Aes Sedai are incredibly dumb or some of the ones testing Egwene have to be darkfiends. When the other ter'angreal is causing in interference in the portal they ignore it and tell her to go ahead anyway. Alanna even tells her afterwards that happened another time when they had a ter'angreal in the same room. I thought they're supposed to be smarter and more cautious than that unless it's part of some plot.

Mat's chapters are my favorite ones in this book so far. Maybe because it's pretty much the first time I've seen what he's normally like. Except for a little bit in Eye of the World he's been cursed or dying the entire time and it needs a little bit of his light heartedness.


Scarlet Alex wrote: "Mat's chapters are my favorite ones in this book so far. Maybe because it's pretty much the first time I've seen what he's normally like. Except for a little bit in Eye of the World he's been cursed or dying the entire time and it needs a little bit of his light heartedness. "
Me too, Mat has been my favorite character all along, and I'm grateful for that, since his POV made this book grow on me.
I found Egwene's test only centered around Rand, which is kind of disturbing, she doesn't care about her parents or family at all?
I would have liked to see Elayne's test too, I really want to know if this girl cares about the throne at all!


message 5: by Jon (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 706 comments Alex wrote: "When the other ter'angreal is causing in interference in the portal they ignore it and tell her to go ahead anyway."

No one but Egwene knew there was another ter'angreal in the testing room. Verin gave it to Egwene, telling her to keep secret, and Verin is the only one who even knows that particular ter'angreal exists. The Mistress of Novices caught Egwene in the hallway as she was returning to her rooms from Verin's and took her immediately to the testing room.


Alex | 104 comments Jon wrote: "Alex wrote: "When the other ter'angreal is causing in interference in the portal they ignore it and tell her to go ahead anyway."

No one but Egwene knew there was another ter'angreal in the testin..."

I know, but Alanna knew something similar happened during a previous test with one in the room. It should have at least been enough to raise some sort of alarm with her. Not necessarily go "Aha, there's something hidden in those robes!" but at least inspect the room or put off the test or something.


Suzanne | 212 comments I thought the visions were pretty interesting - and I would have loved to see Elaynes'. We probably all have a case of "what might have been" over some past event or another, and I liked exploring it. Thanks for the heads up about Egwene's last vision!


Margot (freezebaby) Just read the chapter on Egwene's test to become Accepted. I really enjoyed re-reading this chapter, particular the last test. (view spoiler)

This set of chapters provides the first Matt POV chapter in the entire series. Did anyone else notice that? We actually never saw things from Matt's point of view the entire time he was tainted by the dagger (or before).

I really liked the scene with Siuan and Matt, where Siuan tells the story of her uncle Huan: "He liked to gamble, too, and he'd much rather have fun than work. He died pulling children out of a burning house. He wouldn't stop going back as long as there was one left inside." (view spoiler)

I was, however, annoyed with Matt's flashbacks to thousand-year-old battles and his uncanny ability to speak the Old Tongue. I thought (view spoiler). I just don't buy the whole the Old Blood is so strong in them. So strong that they can speak and understand an ancient language not used in over a thousand years? No thanks.


Heidi | 71 comments Well if Rand can be Lews Therin reborn, maybe Mat is actually some ancient Manetheren hero reborn... that's my theory.


message 10: by Jon (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 706 comments Heidi wrote: "Well if Rand can be Lews Therin reborn, maybe Mat is actually some ancient Manetheren hero reborn... that's my theory."

And you're sticking to it! :)

I'd give it better than even odds of being correct. :)


Margot (freezebaby) Heidi wrote: "Well if Rand can be Lews Therin reborn, maybe Mat is actually some ancient Manetheren hero reborn... that's my theory."

Yeah, that seems a good and sound theory. But it's just too easy. Plus, it seems that people who have the ability to be reborn and retain memories from past lives are all and only the heroes bound to the wheel. So which hero would Matt be?


message 12: by Jon (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 706 comments Margot wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Well if Rand can be Lews Therin reborn, maybe Mat is actually some ancient Manetheren hero reborn... that's my theory."

Yeah, that seems a good and sound theory. But it's just too ea..."


Actually, I can't remember off the top of my head. (view spoiler)


Scarlet he could be the king that Moiraine spoke of in the first book, the one that died in the trolloc wars


message 14: by Anne (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anne | 5 comments Regarding Mat's memories: (view spoiler)

These spoilers are from multiple books, mostly books 4-6, I think. It has to be in the first 10 since I haven't read the last few yet. I had already started my re-read of the series when this thread came up, so I'm paused at book 5 and waiting for the group to catch up.


Margot (freezebaby) Okay, Anne, I'll buy that. I always thought of (view spoiler). But I like your theory better.


message 16: by Anne (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anne | 5 comments Margot wrote: "Okay, Anne, I'll buy that. I always thought of [spoilers removed]. But I like your theory better."

:) It helps that I've read each of the first 8 books 5 or 6 times. Each time I read it I see new things, and I've had some time to think about it in the 13 years since I first started this series. Even though I haven't been commenting much on these threads, I love reading other people's theories and first impressions. It helps me see things I might not have thought much about when reading them myself.

(A big thank you to my big brother for buying me the 1st 8 books in hardcover back in 1998/1999. He was so right when he said I'd love them.)


Evilynn | 68 comments Anne wrote: "Regarding Mat's memories: [spoilers removed]
"


That's how I always interpreted it as well. He gets access to them (view spoiler), but they were always in his subconscious.


message 18: by Dana (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dana | 27 comments I love Mat starting with the moment he trounces Galad and Gawain in the practice yard. With the dagger's influence he really wasn't likeable. But from here on out, he's one of my favorites. Regarding his memories (view spoiler)

Did anyone notice how Egwene's test for the Accepted echoed some of the lives Rand flashed through during the portal stone journey in the last book?
"Egwene married him; Egwene, stern-faced in the stole of the Amyrlin Seat, led the Aes Sedai who gentled him; Egwene, with tears in her eyes, plunged a dagger into his heart, and he thanked her as he died."


Helen I know I'm behind everyone else, but when I see 'hide spoiler', I automatically assume that it is a spoiler that we have read past (as most of you are using them for). Could we please have some extra warning if the spoiler is for future events? Both in this thread and in one for Great Hunt, I've discovered something that must be found out in future books.


message 20: by Jon (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 706 comments Helen wrote: "I know I'm behind everyone else, but when I see 'hide spoiler', I automatically assume that it is a spoiler that we have read past (as most of you are using them for). Could we please have some ext..."

Actually, since spoilers are allowed for all previous books, you can probably assume that any hidden spoiler is for the future.


Margot (freezebaby) And we won't be posting tagged spoilers for future events within the current book. We'll just be posting those spoilers, untagged, in the discussion thread for the appropriate section of the book.


Alicia Dana wrote: "Did anyone notice how Egwene's test for the Accepted echoed some of the lives Rand flashed through during the portal stone journey in the last book?"

I remembered two of the similarities, but not the one in the dagger. Made me wonder if the ter'angreal used for testing is also related to the other worlds. I also wanted to know about Elayne's test, I can only hope she'll mention it later, but I doubt it.

I didn't really care for Mat much in the previous books, but after reading his POV I think I might like him after all. I also got the feeling that he was the reincarnation of the Manetheren king. And the things regarding to the old tongue are related to that.

I know I'm not politically minded, so this may seem dumb. But if Aes Sedai can't lie, why doesn't the Amyrlin just ask all of them whether they are or aren't if she wants to know who's Black Ajah. All I can think of as a problem is if the Black Ajah can go against their oaths, which I don't know either way about, or maybe she thinks it'll cause too many harmful rumors to go about. It seems a lot simpler than what she's doing.


message 23: by Jon (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 706 comments Alicia wrote: " But if Aes Sedai can't lie, why doesn't the Amyrlin just ask all of them whether they are or aren't if she wants to know who's Black Ajah."

I believe that once an Aes Sedai becomes Black Ajah, her original Three Oaths are superseded by her oath to the Dark One.


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