YA LGBT Books discussion
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What do those letters mean? - Abbreviations and LGBTQ terms explained
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Well, we need some big established group to come up with something good, simple and inclusive, and get it out and promote it.
I just encountered for the second time the concept of "a lesbian trapped in a man's body." Both times the man is comfortable being male. Neither time was the concept explored seriously, though.I'm confused. Is this a thing? If so, what makes this person different from a straight male?
Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "I just encountered for the second time the concept of "a lesbian trapped in a man's body." Both times the man is comfortable being male. Neither time was the concept explored seriously, though...."
I'm not sure but we see an awful lot of female readers of M/M claiming to be a gay man trapped in a woman's body, without being seriously trans. I wince a little, but take it for a statement of enthusiasm for not just them having sex with the opposite sex character, but being turned on by the thought of being the other person in the same-sex pair.
Some people claim that men like to watch lesbian porn with the fantasy of getting in on the action as a guy between the two women (as opposed to women with M/M who want to be one of the M for that moment). So perhaps a man who reads F/F and identifies with being one of the F characters with no man in sight feels that that is noteworthy?
Kaje wrote: "Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "I just encountered for the second time the concept of "a lesbian trapped in a man's body." Both times the man is comfortable being male. Neither time was the concept explo..."I would agree with this conception Kaje, that the person is expressing a gratuitous wish or excitement about relating to a person of a different gender as if the two were of the same gender.
I cannot claim I am gay in a woman's body or anything like it, but being a bisexual girl and dating a bisexual guy as well, I have felt sometimes that it would be very interesting and exciting to be a guy and have sex with my bf. So I guess it could work as a fantasy?
Yeah, I think mostly that phrasing relates to a fantasy (although the word "trapped" in a body if taken seriously would suggest being trans. However if the guy, or the women, are happy in their physical form then I'd consider that exaggeration and hyperbola, not fact.)
What's Polysexual? And Pansexual?
Polysexual is attracted to multiple genders or sexes, but not all. Like for example they might be attracted to everyone being and identifying as female.
Pansexual is an attraction no matter the sex or gender. It might be a man, female, agender, Trans, whatever.
I kinda saw it as fantasy, too. Both contexts were ambiguous, but could be interpreted as satire or 'just-kidding.' To me, it seems disrespectful. A guy who is happy with his manhood, and likes women, has no clue the challenges a lesbian goes through. To imagine he wants to be in her situation is, erm, difficult.
Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "To me, it seems disrespectful. A guy who is happy with his manhood, and likes women, has no clue the challenges a lesbian goes through. To imagine he wants to be in her situation is, erm, difficult...."
It is a bit disrespectful, in a way. And so is the same thing from straight women who love M/M, and fantasize about being a gay man until they claim to feel like one, but don't really want to be trans or in that situation 24/7 with its day-to-day reality. And yet... the straight readers who fall in love with and really identify with gay and lesbian characters are part of the building support system for LGBT rights. So a little bit of fantasizing and and simplifying might be worth just ignoring, to encourage that.
My dad has used the 'Lesbian trapped in a Man's body' line as joke before, usually when my mom catches him eying other women. And he has received an earful from me about how careless and insensitive that line is in that context on numerous occasions, not to mention the icy daggers Mom gives him for it. The context is really important. If the context is authentic, inquisitive and well meaning, then I would let it slide or open a dialog about it. If the context is in bad taste and covering for lewd behavior, then its time for a stern lecture.
Kaje wrote: "LGBTQ - Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning/Queer,... you can add a lot more letters for Intersex/Pansexual/Asexual etc - or let Q=queer stand for the rest. (This term combines all gen..."So, I have a question about the word homosexual. You say that "the use of this word in derogatory ways has made it feel offensive to many individuals". I always thought that the term "homosexual" would be more polite and now I'm not sure of what is going on. In Greece using the english word "gay" can be considered as less polite because the greek word ομοφυλόφιλος (homosexual) is more formal or rather that's the impression I have gotten. What I'm wondering is, which term should I use? (when I'm not talking about myself)
It's something that varies from culture to culture, even in English-speaking places. Here in the US, at least, the tendency for preachers, political bigots and others to speak of "the ho-mo-sexual agenda" and so on, sometimes pretending to be polite while couching hate speech around the word, has made some gay people seriously dislike the term. So here at least, using "gay", "lesbian", or in younger circles (but not some older ones) "queer" is actually preferred. That will not necessarily be true everywhere. (And note that some LGBT folks hate the word "queer" for similar reasons.)Part of the problem is that we don't have really good terms for LGBT that are positive, inclusive, both nouns and adjectives, and haven't been tainted by use as past slurs.
Okay I have a dumb question. Does f2m or m2f also include sex changes? Or is that what it is?
Madame Malice wrote: "Okay I have a dumb question. Does f2m or m2f also include sex changes? Or is that what it is?" There are no dumb questions, if you are genuinely trying to understand people better.
Someone who is F2M transgender was born biologically female, but identifies as male.
Someone who is M2F was born male, but identifies as female.
Those are their fundamental identities, whether they do nothing more than say to themselves "this is who I truly am" or go through four different surgeries, both individuals are equally transgender.
"Sex Change" is a kind of general term. When someone is transgender, they may take no outward steps to try to become physically more like the gender they identify as. This was particularly true historically, and in some countries now, where a "man" acting/looking feminine, or a "woman" trying to seem more masculine is at risk for everything from ridicule to execution.
When circumstances, both personal and social, allow it, someone who is transgender may undertake some form of transitioning. That is what has in the past been referred to as a "sex change" but it is a multi-layered, multi-step process.
Transitioning may be as minimal as cutting long hair to a masculine style, or wearing more female clothing. It might include puberty blockers for pre-teens to keep secondary sex characteristics from developing along the genetic blueprint, when a young person is able to articulate and obtain this option young enough. It might include male or female hormones as injections, or implants. And it might include surgery.
Surgical transitioning is also multi-stage, and among other distinctions, people often talk of "top" and "bottom" surgery. This may involve removing sex characteristics of the undesired gender (such as an F2M guy having breast removal with nipple grafting), reconstruction of desired appearance, modifications (like shaving the Adam's apple in a M2F woman to look more feminine.)
So M2F or F2M is how the person identifies.
"Sex Change" is an old term that touches on physical transitioning, a complex and very individual process.
If you have other questions feel free to ask them.
Many (but not all) transgender people use the terms f2m (female to male) or m2f (male to female) to designate the direction they are transitioning. So female to male refers to someone assigned the designation female at birth who is transitioning to or living as a male. The term sex change is rarely used in the trans community. There are political reasons but the simplest problem is that it's not nearly precise enough. Everyone's transition is unique and personal. Some include surgery and some don't. Some involve hormones, some don't. Transition is a process and we often meet trans people that are still somewhere along their journey, they might be taking hormones but haven't had surgery, for example. Sex change implies a simple one step process.
Rachel wrote: "Sex change implies a simple one step process. ..."Yeah, not so much, eh?
That makes a lot of sense! I understand much better. I guess it just depends on the comfort level of the person or what is it they want to change about themselves.
Madame Malice wrote: "That makes a lot of sense! I understand much better. I guess it just depends on the comfort level of the person or what is it they want to change about themselves."Yes, indeed. And many other things, including cost which can be a big factor. And what they feel will be acceptable in their job or family situation. Etc.
Also some surgery is more successful than others, so F2M bottom surgery, for example, is complicated and not as good as we would like. Some people who would love to have male lower anatomy and can afford it, still won't do it because the result isn't worth the pain. To others it may be still enough better to feel worthwhile. So yes, individual differences in every situation.
Surgery does seem complicated. And really expensive. I had a friend of mine tell me that she knew someone who wanted to transition (I guess that's the right word to use) to a guy but didn't probably because of what you mentioned. I had just assumed it was because she didn't have the money but I don't really know much about surgery so that makes sense.
Madame Malice wrote: "Surgery does seem complicated. And really expensive. I had a friend of mine tell me that she knew someone who wanted to transition (I guess that's the right word to use) to a guy but didn't probabl..."That's the right word, yes :)
And money is a big thing, but yeah, everyone has to make their own decisions and a lot of factors come into it. Hormones aren't just a one-time thing, but have to be kept up continuously, and levels monitored, and there are side effects too. But there can be a huge boost to comfort and well-being for some people to finally live in a body that doesn't seem to fight them at every turn. I remember one F2M guy's joy at finally being able to go outside shirtless and for people to identify his gender as male without second guessing.
Wow! That must be nice but yeah I get what you're saying.
I just found an acronym that's new to me MOGAI
Marginalized Orientations, Gender identities, And Intersex
message 77:
by
♫✯Em loves Hollenstein✯♫❤the summertime and butterflies all belong to your creation❤
(new)
so why is it called Not Safe For Work?
♫✯Aria loves Ellen Page✯♫ *Klaine* ❤️Because of the layers?❤️ wrote: "so why is it called Not Safe For Work?"Not Safe For Work - NSFW is just code for a GR post that contains anything you should be aware that you might not want your boss (or elderly mother or young child or banker or straight-laced aunt...) to see.
It includes any thread with full nudity pictures, but also sometimes pictures of violence, suffering, questionable humor, a burning flag, anything controversial... There is not much if any NSFW content on this group, because we are public and YA, and there should not be any 18+ nudity here.
But someone might, perhaps, hide a picture in spoiler tags and warn those who would click on it that it is NSFW so they don't open it if someone who might be offended is behind them.
eg: NSFW joke - (view spoiler)
Rez wrote: "I just found an acronym that's new to me MOGAI
Marginalized Orientations, Gender identities, And Intersex"
Interesting. I'll add it. Not sure I like the term "Marginalized" although I suppose it could stand for "Minority" as well.
YALSA's Hub has just shared this piece, "Booklist: Asexuality in Young Adult Fiction," which also includes discussion of the term.(If this fits better in another Discussion area for the group, please feel free to shift it.)
Kim wrote: "YALSA's Hub has just shared this piece, "Booklist: Asexuality in Young Adult Fiction," which also includes discussion of the term.(If this fits better in another Discussion area for the group, pl..."
This is fine - I'll also link it on the Asexuality thread - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
A useful guide - All Your Questions About Gender-Neutral Pronouns Answered
From grammar to what to do if you mess it up.
http://www.teenvogue.com/story/they-t...
hi! i noticed that some of the language in the definitions section is very binary, so I'd just like to point out that bigender, genderfluid, and other gender-expansive identities are not limited to the binary genders. you can be female and nonbinary, all of the genders, none of them, or basically whatever you feel like.
sam wrote: "hi! i noticed that some of the language in the definitions section is very binary, so I'd just like to point out that bigender, genderfluid, and other gender-expansive identities are not limited to..."Thanks for pointing that out - I think language is evolving, and in particular awareness of gender-nonbinary is making a lot of recent strides. Probably time to revisit those definitions. If you want to suggest revisions either here or PM to me, I'm always looking to improve and include.
New exclusion/conflict/bullying terms to me, that I'm posting here as an FYI, although I'm NOT advocating their use - (but because you may come across them) -"truscum" - Derogatory term for a transgender individual who believes that to be considered transgender you must have experienced emotions such as:
Depression like states caused by sex
Seeking medical/surgery treatment to re-assign genitals and hormones
Relief from identifying as the chosen gender
Uncomfortability around genitals and other gendered organs
So someone who believes that some version of dysphoria is a necessary component of being trans would be called by this term.
"Tucute" is a derogatory term that these kids in turn use against anyone they think is a fake transgender or “transtrender” because they don't express dysphoria.
I don't approve of applying derogatory labels to people based on their behaviors.
I do think that accepting that there are all kinds of different ways to be trans, and that not all involve dysphoria, is important. So try not to insist that any particular experience must be shared for someone to be "truly" trans.
I second Maddie and Amy. Do not ever use A for allies because an ally, important as they are, is not a gender or sexual minority. As if being an ally is more LGBTQIA+ than asexuals are. I hope I don't sound harsh, but we (asexuals) are so often erased and made invisible we need as much visibility as possible, including in the acronym. I love allies, though, and we need them so much. They just do not belong in the acronym.
Absolutely. A is not Ally. It's Asexual and also Aromantic and Agender.
But I do think 'diversity' has a better ring!