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message 1: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
There seems to be a lot of controversy on this topic these days. What with Obama supporting it and stuff. What do you think the bible says about this matter? And how should we as christians act?


message 2: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) The bibled doesn't support like marriage. God created man and woman for a reason. If He wanted two males to be together, He would not have created Eve. I think their is a spirit of homosexuality going around and it attacks mostly people who have been sexually abused and those who have never been exposed to a real God fearing man. I think that this problem needs to be addressed by focusing on the reasons many people become homosexual, not homosexuality itself. That way you attack the cause (the lack of Godly men and the excess of rape victims) and not the result (the people who become homosexual). That way we are acting out of love and with love, as God has commanded us to do, and not out of self-righteousness and an attitude of I'M RIGHT YOUR WRONG AND YOUR GOING TO HELL. No matter that it's the truth, there is still a right way to do it so that people are attracted to God and not pushed away out of disgust and fear. That is my opinion.


message 3: by Reece (new)

Reece | 1 comments Amen, I completely agree! I don't think that could have been worded any better!! :)


message 4: by Anna (new)

Anna (SylviaGrant) | 20 comments Mod
Me too!! Plus it really makes my skin crawl to think that a man and man would be married...it just sounds totally wrong and I could never imagine being the kid of that family...it's just weird.


message 5: by Alkmini (new)

Alkmini Yeah, I totally agree Valencia. I also don't believe that anyone is born homosexual. I mean, I cannot believe that a baby when it's born might be a homosexual. Homosexuality is a result of several circumstances like rapes that you mentioned. I read somewhere "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" and that's so true! It makes me sad that some churches support gay couples and tell them that God is alright with it as it is clear in the Bible that He is not!


message 6: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) Yea I don't like the fact that a church would support that either. It may be some tactic they are trying to use, but it just makes them look hypocritical and it's just coddling sin.


message 7: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
So we should love them and try to help them right?


message 8: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) Always


message 9: by Anna (new)

Anna (SylviaGrant) | 20 comments Mod
Of course...we should just like our enemies except with much more grace and love and mercy!!


message 10: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) Excactly


Oksana the Bookaholic (cookiegurl) Yeah, I agree. God said somewhere in the Bible that gay marriage was a great sin. But I agree - we shouldn't judge them or prejudice them like a bunch of Christians do nowadays. They're people with feelings and personalities, and I think that we should strive to help them, not financially but spiritually.


message 12: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
okay bc theres this one movie coming out called Corpus Christi and features jesus as a gay!!!! im like what?????


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

I think we should leave gay people alone about this kind of thing, it isn't hurting anyone else. Just as long as I don't have to say them do anything gross out in public, then they can do what they like.


message 14: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) I'm not saying that we should hunt them all down and try to stop them from being gay. We still need to uphold the bible's standard and pray for those in our own lives who are homosexual or bisexual. Just like we are suppose to minister to nonbelievers we should also pray and speak life over homosexuals.


Oksana the Bookaholic (cookiegurl) Yeah... I agree and disagree with you, Claire. We can't just let them "do what they like". That's also against Christianity because when we see sin, we're supposed to HELP PEOPLE. But I also think that we shouldn't judge them. They've committed a sin; that doesn't make them less human. But "it isn't hurting anyone"? Really? It hurts a lot of people, especially our Savior.


message 16: by Alkmini (last edited Jun 13, 2012 05:17AM) (new)

Alkmini I agree with Oksana. We are sinners too. And there is not a sin that is worse than another so it's not that homosexuality is worse than lying or something. But it is more difficult to accept a homosexual than a liar because it's something so weird for us. But we still have to accept them because God first accepted us even though we hated Him. Even though we were so sinful and unworthy He sent His own son for us. And He sent His son for the homosexuals too... And since we are His disciples we have to preach to them. We have to see them through His eyes and love them. We have to help them move on and come back to Him. And when I say we have to accept them, I don't mean accept them as homosexuals, but as humans. We have to judge the homosexuality, not the homosexuals.


message 17: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 13, 2012 08:06PM) (new)

I go against the action of gay marriage/ lesbian marriage.


message 18: by Jessica (new)

Jessica (hessica) | 3 comments We can still like homosexual people, but we can hate their sin. We also have no room to judge anyone because we are all sinners, and every sin is the same, except one. We still need to tell them about Jesus and try to help them out of their current path, but that does not mean we don't accept them and let them be in our lives. It is like Paul said, be im the world but not of it.


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes, I agree with you of the fact that we are all sinners.


Oksana the Bookaholic (cookiegurl) I couldn't have worded it better than Alkmini. We hang out with people that have had sex before they had married, people that steal, liars and all other sinful people. We can't seem to accept the fact that homosexuality isn't a bigger sin than those other sins. But we can choose whether we want to participate in helping people steal, lie, or have sex out of wedlock. Same goes for helping lesbians - we want to help them TURN TO GOD, not give them food, money, and other items to help them live their sinful life.


message 21: by Digit (new)

Digit (digharris) | 5 comments It makes me sad to hear that christians in our day still think of homosexuality as a sin. Homosexuality is not a choice, it is a genetic trait. It occurs in animals, who have no higher level of thought to make 'choices' like this, so why do we assume that humans do? Love the Lord our God, Hate REAL sin, and judge not out of ignorance.

Here are some quotes from very learned religious leaders, who also agree that homosexuality is NOT a sin:

Rabbi Janet R Marder - associate director for the Union of American Hebrew Congregations Pacific Southwest Council, graduate of University of California at Santa Cruz)
'The God I worship endorses loving, committed, monogamous relationships, regardless of the gender of those involved.'

Rev Dr George R Edwards, PhD (professor emeritus of new testament theology at Louisville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, holds masters in divinity from LPTS and a PhD from Duke University):
'God does not regard homosexuality as a sin any more than heterosexuality. Sin is lack of respect for God; it is a lack of love or respect for other persons. Whether gay or straight, therefore, one may sin against God or others. But God forgives us when we sin and strengthens us in resisting sin. We are led by God's forgiving love to become more respectful and loving toward God and towards others, even those we don't "like".'


message 22: by Jessica (new)

Jessica (hessica) | 3 comments In the BIBLE it says that it is a sin. In multiple areas. It baffles me when ignorant people don't believe what is in the Bible since it is God's words.


message 23: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
agreed jessica. God never created animals to be gay. where does THAT come from? i mean have u ever seen female cows mating together? it just isnt natural! Those religious leaders probably dont know what they are talking about because the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. now if you're christian how can u argue with that??


message 24: by Jessica (new)

Jessica (hessica) | 3 comments Exactly. I actually overheard someone the other day saying that they were crossing stuff out of their Bible, I almost fainted. People always use the excuse that God loves everyone and he wouldn't send anyone to Hell because of who they are and the can't help it because they were made that way. UM NO! God makes everyone so he would never make anyone gay.


message 25: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
exactly! it says in the Bible that if anyone changes it they r guilty of some really really bad things. we cant compromise the word of God!


message 26: by Digit (new)

Digit (digharris) | 5 comments The verses that you are referring to do not say that homosexuality is a sin. Do some research and open your eyes, and heart as well. God never made you to sit in judgement of others either, and here you are, deciding who goes to Hell. That's His job, not yours.


message 27: by Alea (new)

Alea (b-young) The thing I allways think about when I hear this discussion is that christianity is supposed to be mostly about love. And the kind of love isn't deffined. Come on, they're just people, and better jet people in love. Isn't that what it's all about after all? It isn't a different kind of love, it's not a worse kind of love, it's just love. The very thing Jesus taught us. As long as it's love why does it matter who you fall in love with?


message 28: by Alkmini (new)

Alkmini Digit and B-Young, in the Bible it is truly said that homosexuality is a sin...


message 29: by Digit (last edited Jun 18, 2012 09:51AM) (new)

Digit (digharris) | 5 comments No, that is not true. The verses in the bible refer to immoral behavior, not homosexuality in general. Read the verses in several different translations, do some research on them, and then comment. We make assumptions based on the translation that we read, and that can very often lead to misunderstanding.


message 30: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 18, 2012 11:29AM) (new)

Hey, in the beginning God put Adam and Eve together. Not Adam and Steve. :) I'm sure you've all heard that saying.
Why would anyone think God would change His ways and allow a man and a man be together, or a woman and a woman? God is eternal. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He does not change.

As for love. (B-Young): I believe that the love between homosexuals is not a God-given love. It is a love built on desires of the flesh, a desire to be with somebody, a desire to feel loved by someone --anyone. And since a lot of people out there feel like they're not finding happiness with the opposite sex, they turn to the same gender. But they're not gonna find happiness in that either. Guaranteed. They are looking for love, but they will never find it that way. The only true love they will ever find is when they allow themselves to be consumed by the love of God.


message 31: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) This topic is getting a little heated. What if homosexuality was widely excepted? What if we continued to believe the lies of what love is? What if we allowed ourselves to change and become homosexual? The world as we know it would cease to exist. We would stop reproducing in a way that is honorable to God. Well I guess that wouldn't matter anyway if we openly excepted homosexuality. We were made for the opposite sex. If it wasn't for the world today and technology homosexuals wouldn't even be able to be together and have 'families'. God made us to be able to reproduce in a honorable way. There's a specific role for the man and the woman in the home. Not the man and the man. We're like puzzle pieces, specifically made to fit in a certain spot. When we start sifting the pieces and changing their shape to fit where we want them to, we are assuming the position of God. There's so many lies the world is telling us about relationships, love, and marriage. It's really heart breaking. If homosexuality isn't a sin, the way they go about their relationships is. Many of the homosexuals that live in my city became homosexual or get others to CHOOSE that way by having sex with them or participating in sexual habits which is a sin. That's not just homosexuals, heterosexuals do that too, to get others to enter into a relationship with them. I think the main issue is that we are being lied to about love and relationships. Also, that men are neglecting their roles in society. But I'm just rambling now.

This topic needs to cool down. Main point: We need to show God's love to all people, lead them to God, and let Him convict them about their lifestyle. And pray, pray, pray.


message 32: by Digit (new)

Digit (digharris) | 5 comments What's heartbreaking is reading so many of these close-minded posts attacking a group of people who deserve our empathy. Immoral behavior is a sin, regardless of whether you are hetero or homosexual. You know so little about these people. Christians should be much less judgmental than what is going on here. I will pray for God to guide you all in His will, and give you His understanding, not mine. And I hope that you never have to get judged the way that you're judging homosexuals.


message 33: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
valencia always steps in when things get heated :) sry if i got a little out of control. if i could find that verse that says homosexuality is a sin i would pull it up but ik for a fact it is. i still believe that we shouldnt treat gays any differently and still show them jesus' love bc otherwise it would be biased. And i agree the love gays have isnt the kind of love GOD intended. its fleshly emotional love. thats completely different. i better stop arguing but thats my opinion and i cant help defending it.


message 34: by Sam (last edited Jun 18, 2012 04:35PM) (new)

Sam (Readlovelaughlive) | 23 comments Digit wrote: "What's heartbreaking is reading so many of these close-minded posts attacking a group of people who deserve our empathy. Immoral behavior is a sin, regardless of whether you are hetero or homosexua..."

I've spoken out on many threads about how what we need to impart is love, and not aloof self-righteousness. I agree with you that it is heartbreaking that some Christians heartlessly attack homosexuals. I definitely do not wish to attack - and God help me - judge them. We have no right to do that. However, I believe that homosexuality is a sin.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (NIV)

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)

Whether or not you believe homosexuality is a sin depends on your interpretation of the scripture. However, I believe that homosexuality is a sin. I'm sorry that you feel that you are being attacked, or that homosexuals are being attacked.

I will definitely keep in mind in the future to be more conscious of whether or not I am being judgmental. However, there are Christians out there, lovely Christians here as well, who believe homosexuality to be a sin and are not judgmental. I have many friends who are homosexual/bisexual, and that does not get in the way of our friendship.

Homosexuals are sinners - just like we are all sinners. If we choose to receive God's grace, then He cleanses us of our sin. I'm not trying to come off as close-minded, only that since this is a topic on gay marriage, I'm expressing my opinion concerning it. Homosexuality is just as much a sin as lying, commiting adultery, etc., in my opinion. They should not be treated any differently, because we are all sinners and fallen short of God's glory.

We must always keep before us the fact that homosexuals, like all of us sinners, are the objects of God's love. The Bible says, "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Jesus Christ "is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (I John 2:2). The Christian who shares God's love for lost sinners will seek to reach the homosexual with the gospel of Christ, which "is the power of God unto salvation, to every one that believeth" (Romans 1:16). As a Christian I should hate all SIN but I can find NO JUSTIFICATION for hating the SINNER. A homosexual is a precious soul for whom Christ died. We Christians can show him the best way of life by pointing him to Christ. Our Lord said, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15). We are obligated to take the gospel to all.

I also pray for God to guide you in His will. :)
God bless!


message 35: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) Amen Sam.


message 36: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
Amen to that too! Again we should not and i hope we do not HATE the sinner but the SIN bc God hates sin. and if he does theres nothing wrong with us hating sin.


message 37: by Digit (new)

Digit (digharris) | 5 comments As a heterosexual father of 4 who happens to have a couple of homosexual friends, and has taken the time to really get to know them, I know for a fact that they would never have ‘chosen’ to go through some of the things that they did. I know, from prayer, from my heart, and from serious research, that they are sinners just like me because we are all sinners; not just because they happen to be homosexual.
Let’s take a look at a couple of verses from other translations.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God. (KJV)
Romans 1:26-27
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. (KJV)
The NIV version uses the word ‘homosexual’ when the King James does not. If you look into it, you will see that even back in the 4th century, scholars couldn’t agree on the meaning of the original words. Translations can cause a ton of ignorance.
Bottom line: When all is said and done, it comes down to faith. How do you believe God would act? Would God say some of the things said in this post?

Trivia – The word ‘love’ is used 314 times in the KJV.
This group is not what I hoped it was. I’ll leave you to your beliefs and leave the group.
I wish you all well.


message 38: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) We're not trying to judge the people. We only want to reach an understanding here so that we can speak life into these people and help them to turn for their ways. We aren't condemning them or saying that they are bad people. Bad things have happened to a lot of them and many go through the same things as heterosexuals. I absolutely love my homosexual friends and I feel like I should be the one responsible of loving them and speaking life into their lives, and praying for them that they can change their ways. We've all had to change our ways one way or another. I sorry that you feel the need to leave. No one meant to upset you.


message 39: by Alea (new)

Alea (b-young) The thing about their love. You (some people) says that it's not real love like heterosexuall love is. I wounder a thing; have you ever seen a gay person in love? It really is the same. They "looks" the same, they talk about their crush/love in the same way and they interact with eacother in the same way as heterosexualls do. It is the same kind of love. Ofcourse there is bad and good love, but that excists in heterosexuall couples too.


Oksana the Bookaholic (cookiegurl) B-Young: Have you seen people having sex before? They can LOOK like they're married, or just enjoying each other. All the same, it's a sin. Same thing with gay marriage: it can LOOK right (although I seriously doubt it), it can FEEL right, but it isn't. Are you tracking my thoughts?


message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree with Digit and B-Young.


message 42: by Carolyn, My Excellent and Friendly and Thoughtful Mod (new)

Carolyn (caroheartsbooks) | 304 comments Mod
Love is not about emotions or feelings!


message 43: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) I agree. God doesn't love us because of emotions and feelings. Emotions and feelings are completely human. He made the decision to love us. He is the source of our love so our love should resemble His.


Oksana the Bookaholic (cookiegurl) Exactimo!!!


message 45: by Alea (new)

Alea (b-young) Oksana; yeah, I can understand what you mean. But I don't understand why you think gay love is any different from any other love?

And what is love then?


message 46: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) The bible says so much about love. God's love for us, how we should love God, how we should love each other, and even what we get out of loving God. I not saying it's wrong for a man to love another man or a woman to love another woman. The problem is in how they love each other. If you look at a lot of homosexual guys they take on the personality and characteristics of a woman (in 1 Corinthians 6:9 it says that the effeminate is one of those that won't inherit the kingdom of Heaven. An effeminate is a man whose behavior, appearance, or speech is considered to be similar to that traditionally associated with women or girls). God created men with certain charcteristics and purposes, when they change or act in a way contridictory to that they are going against God. I've seen many stories where people feel they were born the wrong sex, even some feel they were born the wrong color. That's basically is saying that God didn't know what He was doing. The bible says "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works;..."- Psalms 139:13. However, the influence of the devil and sin corrupts that image. The main thing is how we all (homosexuals and heterosexuals too) go about showing love and pursueing love is done in a way that's not honorable to God and can lead to sin. We're choosing the creation (love) over the Creator (God). If we make Him the focus and source of our love, we wouldn't have to worry about things like sexual immorality, abortion, homosexuality, corrupted thoughts about love, and worshiping creations. If we seek Him diligently about this and other things there really isn't to argue, because God's will and logic is inarguable. I will always choose to pray for my homosexual (the heterosexual ones too) friends that God may be the focus of their love. He is the ultimate lover and there is no greater love than God's and that's all that matters. That we love and honor Him!!


Oksana the Bookaholic (cookiegurl) Bravo!! Exactly! Like, I love my best girl friend, but it's not man-woman type stuff. Sometimes even people misread love... For instance, they love their best guy or girl friend and they think it's more than friendliness.


message 48: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) That's because we as humans crave love and affection so much. We want it quick, fast, and simple but are devastated when that love falls through the cracks. Creations were not made to sustain us forever or indefinately. In the end our love should ALWAYS be focused on God and branch out from there. Honestly every single one of us should be able to live a life of singleness, because nothing fulfill us like the love of God. It's only because of sin that we fail in seeking God's love first.

Oh I forgot to say that I'm in no way attacking the person, just the sin. They are very much just like each and everyone of us and are loved eqaully by God. They have other things going on in their lives besides their sexual orientation. I still (and always will) feel that prayer and showing God's love to them (heterosexuals too because so many people are in the same boat when it comes to seeking God's love) is the only way to go. I'm not prejudice or hateful towards them. I have a couple friends that I love that are homosexual (or bisexual).


Oksana the Bookaholic (cookiegurl) True. But sometimes when we attack the sin, people feel protective of it, like you're attacking them. For instance, if you own a black lab and someone said, "black labs suck!" you would feel offended.


message 50: by Valencia (new)

Valencia (empowered) True. I think that is when people start to worship the sin and/or creation. I get very very defensive when someone attacks God or my belief system because that's how I define myself as. Everything I am has resulted from what I believe and the God I worship. People define theirselves according to the things they worship. Some people even argue that they don't worship creations and sins, but when you aren't able to just drop whatever it is you're doing that's one sign that you worship it. Or if you drop it just to prove a point and the entire time you're thinking "Just 2 more days then I can go back to it. Only a little while to go then I can do that again." Or if you feel pointless/empty/purposeless/defeated/etc. without it your worshiping it.


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