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message 1: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) Is there a god/are there gods?


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

Well, as a Muslim, of course I believe that there is a god. I believe that there is only one god. I don't think that the world could exist without some being to create it.


message 3: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Of course. It wouldn't make sense if there wasn't a higher being such as God to create the world and us and Earth's creatures and plants. And there aren't gods, there is only He.


message 4: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) I'm Wiccan, so I traditionally believe in the Great Mother and Father Gods--however, I don't know that I see them as corporeal beings so much as symbolic representations of nature and all that is, good and bad, of world. I don't believe in a creation myth, and I don't adhere to the suggestion that "it wouldn't make sense" should there not be a higher being.
Part of the classic Wiccan belief is the understanding that a figure does not have to be physical, or make literal changes such as those that Allah or God might have "made" in the Bible or Koran (like the flood, smiting someone, etc.)
Wiccans conceive of deities not as literal personalities but as metaphorical archetypes or thoughtforms, thereby technically allowing them to be atheists. The Gods are real, not as persons, but as vehicles of power. Briefly, it may be explained that the personification of a particular type of cosmic power in the form of a God or Goddess, carried out by believers and worshippers over many centuries, builds that God-form or Magical Image into a potent reality on the Inner Planes, and makes it a means by which that type of cosmic power may be contacted.


Melissa Corn ~bubbles bubbles bubbles~ | 394 comments I believe there is one God.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm not very religious, but I envy those who are.

If anything, I believe in nature. More or less; science. I find it thought provoking and awe inspiring that the Earth has all these amazing cycles, the circle of life, if you will. But then the human race has just trampled over all of it, sucking out all of its beauty.


Mary *TheBigBangTheory* *I love Louis!* | 417 comments I believe in one God, the Father Almighty.

However, I believee somewhat that there was The Big Bang and that God found the world and did what he did to it.


Melissa Corn ~bubbles bubbles bubbles~ | 394 comments what did he do to it?


Mary *TheBigBangTheory* *I love Louis!* | 417 comments Add animals and humans.


Melissa Corn ~bubbles bubbles bubbles~ | 394 comments Oh now I understand. When you said "God found the world" I got a mental picture of a guy who had just found his lost earth in the forest. That kinda threw me off XD


message 12: by K Roma (new)

K Roma (man-u4kb) I strongly believe that there's only one God! :)


message 13: by ET (new)

ET | 20 comments I believe that there is only one true god there is so much evidence to prove it.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

TheBigBangTheory*TheHungerGamesFanatic* wrote: "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty.

However, I believee somewhat that there was The Big Bang and that God found the world and did what he did to it."


I agree that the big bang theory is probably true-there's evidence to support it, and there's no reason why there can't be a god as well as the big bang theory.


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

The first atom, or whatever it was, must have been created by something, or someone. I don't think I will know all of life's secrets until I die.


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

Yeah and maybe not even then.
That's exactly what I think: the first atom must have been created from somewhere. It didn't just pop up, did it?


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

It couldn't just pop up out of nowhere, but where did its creator come from?


message 18: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) ET wrote: "I believe that there is only one true god there is so much evidence to prove it."

There's so much evidence? What is it, then?


message 19: by ET (new)

ET | 20 comments Look around you libby beautiful nature incredible wildlife this stuff couldn't arouse by chance It just proves that there has to be an Intelligent mind in this case -god whose name is jehovah found at psalms 83:18


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

What Libby was asking for (I think) would be scientific evidence. Not, "well, just look at it, that just MEANS there HAS to be be a GOD!"


message 21: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS You think it all just happened? Just all happened coincidentally?


message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

Yup. To me the Big Bang Theory sounds more probable than a giant man in the sky creating the Earth in seven days.


message 23: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS So two atoms just decided to bang together and a big BANG happened that created the moon, the stars, the sky, the sun, the plants, the animals, and US humans?

Okkkkkaaaay then.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

So one random guy, just walking around, decided to magically create the moon, the stars, the sky, the sun, the plants, the animals, and US humans?

Okkkkkaaaay then.


message 25: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS God isn't just some random guy. To create this world and the things on this world, we would need an Almighty higher being, someone who can think. Atoms just don't decide to collide and create the Earth


message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm sorry, that's just not what I think. Also, I personally don't agree with religion because it's the main cause for most wars, and can be used to "justify" killing people.


message 27: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Can you give me an example? Are you talking about the Crusades or the war against terrorist, etc.?


message 28: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Tell me, were the World Wars started because of religion? Vietnam war?


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

-Israelite conquest of Canaan
- Islamic expansion
- The Crusades
- The Thirty Year's War
- The French Revolution
- The Taiping Rebellion, and the similar Muslim one which I can't remember the name for
- WW2 (Holocaust primarily)


And those are just a few. Also, you know George Zimmerman? He is now claiming that it was "God's will" that he should kill Trayvon. Not only just large wars have occurred because of this, but murders.

I do not hate religion, sometimes I envy people who follow it because they have something to hope and give faith to. I just think sometimes people take it to extremes, and become horrible people because of it.


message 30: by Yuman (new)

Yuman (yumnaep) | 590 comments humans have flaws. It isn't God's fault that humans start fighting over what they believe. It doesn't mean that God isn't real.


message 31: by Yuman (last edited Jul 31, 2012 08:35AM) (new)

Yuman (yumnaep) | 590 comments I think that if there wasn't a God we wouldn't feel guilt. No internal warning sign that we'd done bad and maybe we should reconsider by thinking about the price we might pay in the Afterlife. We'd just do good and bad and that's it. No guilt. But the fact that guilt exists, makes me think that God must be there, making us feel that emotion that warns us that we just committed a sin. There would, of course, be no such things as sins if there was no price (i.e. Afterlife, which indicates God's presence). Guilt is one emotion I relate to the Afterlife and directly to God.


Melissa Corn ~bubbles bubbles bubbles~ | 394 comments Rainbow Dash/TeaDrinkingCat wrote: "-Israelite conquest of Canaan
- Islamic expansion
- The Crusades
- The Thirty Year's War
- The French Revolution
- The Taiping Rebellion, and the similar Muslim one which I can't remember the name ..."


When you say religion caused the holocaust what exactly do you mean by that? Does if have something to do with the fact that most of the people who were killed followed a religious belief (Judaism)? Are you trying to say that if Judaism hadn't existed nobody would have been killed? Or are you trying to tie in Hitler's personal religious beliefs with the holocaust?


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm stating that Religion causes TONS of stereotypes and quick conclusions, along with even some racism.

Honestly, I would totally be all for religion if it didn't bring on negative things. It sounds seriously awesome, and I envy the people who can truly believe in God. I just think that a real God wouldn't allow things that are happening now actually happen.

But a good amount of the religious people I've seen on the news aren't on for helping people, they're on for picketing abortion clinics, gay marriage, and other things. I mean, why can't everyone just stick to their own opinions? It's nice to stand up for what you believe in, but I know a lot of cases where people actually murder abortion doctors. Doesn't that count as a horrible sin? Or is it justified because he preformed abortions? It just doesn't make sense. A lot of people tend to use religion as a scapegoat, and I don't like it.

On the other hand, at my church (My father is fairly religious, my mom, brother and me, not so much) it is filled with wonderful, loving people. And I just don't understand why everyone, form every religion, can be that way.


message 34: by Yuman (last edited Jul 31, 2012 10:21PM) (new)

Yuman (yumnaep) | 590 comments there's a lot of good in the world if you look at it one way rather than pessimistically. It's true that the world is a really sad place to live in now. And yet there is so much hope, and miracles happen and wishes come true. I mean all this factually, I'm not just quoting from a "Gag Me" Optimist's Site or something. I mean this by experience. It worked for me. It can work for you. It just depends on a few differences about our point of view of life.

Of course, it's easy to say it and it seems simple, and when you come down to it you realize that there are huge differences (religion, God, life, and all) and it's not so easy to change your views about life. Yet this type of belief still exists.


message 35: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) ET wrote: "Look around you libby beautiful nature incredible wildlife this stuff couldn't arouse by chance It just proves that there has to be an Intelligent mind in this case -god whose name is jehovah found..."

So...beauty has to exist because something created it...

It's such a closeminded idea that everything MUST have a creator, and that creator must be an all powerful individual.

Look around YOU. Nature has no creator. Nature has no master. Nature answers to no one. Nature is metaphorically one big organism. We are only a part of it. It's a circle of life. No "God" made it.


message 36: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) luhvBOOKS *~Forever a Directioner~* wrote: "You think it all just happened? Just all happened coincidentally?"

No...it just happened. What's the coincidence of that?


message 37: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) luhvBOOKS *~Forever a Directioner~* wrote: "God isn't just some random guy. To create this world and the things on this world, we would need an Almighty higher being, someone who can think. Atoms just don't decide to collide and create the E..."

Why was there some random dude wandering around in nothingness, and why did he randomly decide, "oh hey we should make somethin happen round here!" and then with a poof of his finger made the freaking universe?
-Is confused as to how this makes sense-
Please don't find me offensive--and I apologize if you think I am. But I honestly can't wrap my mind around how this idea makes sense.


message 38: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) Hitler=Christian. Hitler=hated Jews. Hitler=killed Jews.
This does NOT generalize all Christians as mass murderers or religious bigots. But see how religion created a cultural barrier that became lethal and would have never existed had those two parties not separated themselves?


message 39: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) Hitler hated Jews BECAUSE he was a "Christian." (Obviously not an acceptable Christian, though. I mean, our own LB is a Christian but LB would you ever go kill a bunch of Jewish people? I'm going with no. One person doesn't represent all) Of course it tied in his religious beliefs...that's a whole part of the history.


message 40: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) Let's use the song "Imagine" by John Lennon as an example.
When Lennon conveys the idea of "no countries," he means that without borders and ridiculous invisible lines that segregate people in places of the world, there would be no nationalists. There would be no divisions of land to fight over, and there would be less killing for border battles.

With Lennon saying, "no possessions" it's clear he is telling us there would be no more free market nuts, like libertarians, and there would be less greed and less materialistic selfishness.

Lennon said, "No need for greed and hunger, all the people sharing all the world!" and it's easy to see what he means. (+ the obvious message of no capitalism.)

When Lennon says "no religion" (and here's what I'm trying to get at) he describes a world with no more arbitrary hate doctrines. Without religion, there would not have been 9/11. There would not have been the Holocaust. The Thirty Year's War. The French Revolution. Everything else Rainbow said--and most of all, there would be no holy segregation of peoples.
Let's make an equation.
All of the people in the world= X
All the religions in the world= Y
Relationships between all the people in the world= O

X+Y= -O
(All the people in the world with all their different religions equals little to no relationships between people of different religion, and only socializing between those of the SAME religion. Though in places like America where it is considered the norm for religious individuality, you will still find inherent separation between people of different religions.)
X-Y=O
I'll let you figure that one ^ out.

Now. There are exceptions to this rule. And yes, that calculating doesn't ACTUALLY make sense. DEALLL. It's a metaphor.


message 41: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) I don't know if that equation actually made sense to you guys...it made sense to me...XD


message 42: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Hitler needed a scapegoat, and Jews were it. You are right, he wasn't an acceptable Christian. I find it hard to even call him a Christian...

I'm going to make myself very, very clear because I've studied the Holocaust for a long time. It used to be a hobby of mine. Here goes:

Germany's economy at the time was failing and on the verge of collapse. The Germans were desperate and eventually fell victim to Hitler's charismatic and strong ways. He didn't ask the people if they though the Jews were the problem. He didn't connect; he told them they were. The Germans were almost forced into accepting it. And as the roundups began, I don't see how his Christian faith led him to believe that any of this was right at all. Everyone knows he was suffering. He didn't come from much, had a lot of hate in him, and some may even argue that he was suffering from a mental illness and psychotic delusions. None of it, I repeat none of it had anything to do with religion. According to historians, the Jewish people persecuted and sent to concentration camps weren't sent there because of their religion. During that time, they were referred to as a race of people, not a religion. It was because they weren't Aryan. Other groups of people such as homosexuals and gypsies were also sent to concentration camps during the Holocaust. It was also because Jews at that time owned many small businesses and Hitler blamed them for the economic failure. I just hate it when Hitler is used as an example of how religion justifies killing. Because the fact is, it doesn't and never will. Anyone who justifies killing as fulfilling their religion is sinful and wrong. Just like the terrorists in Afghanistan: They are wrong. God loves all his people; you don't kill anyone for religion. Anyone who does isn't true to their religion then.


Melissa Corn ~bubbles bubbles bubbles~ | 394 comments luhvBOOKS *~Forever a Directioner~* wrote: "Hitler needed a scapegoat, and Jews were it. You are right, he wasn't an acceptable Christian. I find it hard to even call him a Christian...

I'm going to make myself very, very clear because I've..."


Agreed with everything you just said. I can say that I have also spent a lot of time looking up Germany's role in the holocaust and WWII (it's kind of a hobby for me too :D). And I guess that's why Rainbow's post confused me, since I knew that the fact that Hitler was a "Christian" (supposedly, I honestly think he just claimed to be a Christian for political reasons) and nothing to do (or at the very least very little to do) with the way Jews were treated during the holocaust. And of course (as you said) they weren't the only group of people persecuted, but they probably were persecuted the most.


message 44: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) luhvBOOKS *~Forever a Directioner~* wrote: "Hitler needed a scapegoat, and Jews were it. You are right, he wasn't an acceptable Christian. I find it hard to even call him a Christian...

I'm going to make myself very, very clear because I've..."


I agree with you on almost all fronts, as I've studied the Holocaust alot too.

Some of the things that Hitler did, such as "purging" the world of non-Aryan peoples (like the Jews, in his opinion) were religion-driven. Read the following:

During the First and Second World War, German leaders used the writings of Luther to support the cause of German nationalism. At the 450th anniversary of Luther's birth, which took place only a few months after the Nazi seizure of power in 1933, there were celebrations conducted on a large scale both by the Protestant Churches and the Nazi Party.

If you look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion...

You can see that almost all Nazis were Christians--there were no Jewish Nazis. Partly because the ideal "Aryan race" was a "Christian" race. (But there's nothing Christian about anything the Nazis did.)

Therefore, the Holocaust was religiously-driven. One individual of one religion (and one unhealthy state of mind) found a dying country, looking for a strong leader and used arguments of racial and religious segregation to kill 6 million people.


message 45: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) (Not to mention the ideal Aryan race being considered the "purest" race, Nordic, as they were claimed to be less racially mixed with non-native Indo-European peoples)


message 46: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Melissa Corn wrote: "luhvBOOKS *~Forever a Directioner~* wrote: "Hitler needed a scapegoat, and Jews were it. You are right, he wasn't an acceptable Christian. I find it hard to even call him a Christian...

I'm going ..."


Thanks :)


message 47: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS But nothing he did was true to Christianity. Murder, persecution, torture....all of that is what Christianity is against. So he and all of the Nazis misinterpreted everything Christianity stands for. So nothing he did was true to religion, therefore I don't like how people use Hitler and the Holocaust to show how religion is bad. Because religion is everything good and nothing bad. People misinterpret religion, change it, and make it up as they go to please a group of people or to show in ones favor. But it's all a bunch of lies if it isn't true.


message 48: by Liv (new)

Liv (osf1998) "But it's all a bunch of lies if it isn't true."

I don't quite know what you're trying to say here. Yes, Hitler was a Christian and yes, he did it in the "name" of Christianity. Does this view stand for all of Christianity? No, of course not. Just as the terrorists of 9/11 don't stand for all of the Muslim religion, etc.

Yes, religion has it's upsides. It can join a group of people together (like a Church) and provide comfort and answers to (some) seeking minds.

But in the same way that it bonds people of the same belief, it automatically segregates and separates people of other beliefs.

Personally, religion adds an entire unneeded layer to social boundaries.

I'm not advocating for anti-religion--I'm just saying.


Melissa Corn ~bubbles bubbles bubbles~ | 394 comments I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll agree with you that maybe Hitler thought he was a Christian, but whether or not he was one is a different matter. And I'll also agree that many Nazis thought they were doing the will of God by killing Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and other supposed enemies of the state. But I guess I disagree that the holocaust was solely religiously motivated. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that religion had nothing to do with the holocaust at all, but I just disagree with the statement that if religion didn't exist, the holocaust wouldn't have happened. Maybe Jews wouldn't have been persecuted but some other group of people would have. I mean it is pretty common knowledge (or at least I hope it is) that Hitler was prepared to kill anyone he didn't like, or who disagreed with his political philosophy (whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, or whoever). So yeah, it's not that I don't thing the holocaust didn't have in religious motivation. It's just that I don't think it was the sole motivation. But anyways I'm tired of talking about this so...


Melissa Corn ~bubbles bubbles bubbles~ | 394 comments God, let's talk about him.


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