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Fifty Shades Darker (Fifty Shades, #2)
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Archive 08-19 BR & Challenges > Fifty Shades Darker...Buddy Read...Starts June 15th

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message 1: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
We are going to be continuing our Buddy Read discussion of the Fifty Shades series by E.L. Jameswith Book #2, Fifty Shades Darker, on June 15th.

If you are interested in joining in this discussion, plan on having finished reading this book by June 15th for the start of the discussion, as spoilers will be allowed in this thread.

Looking forward to a wonderful continued discussion, and thank you to all the great chicks who made the discussion of book 1 go so well. :o)


message 2: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Ok, yes, I know it is still the 14th where I live, but it is June 15th somewhere in the world now, so I am going to get this discussion started! :o)

So, just to start, what are everyone's initial thoughts on finishing this second book? Did you like it better than the first book, or like it less? What did you think about the change in direction that the story took, mainly in the change in the behaviour of Christian (no more violence and hitting, not wanting to go in the red room, becoming a romance and flowers guy)?


message 3: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments I hope there is isn't a time frame, as I won't be able to get into this discussion until the evening. I can't wait.


message 4: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments Sheila wrote: "Ok, yes, I know it is still the 14th where I live, but it is June 15th somewhere in the world now, so I am going to get this discussion started! :o)

So, just to start, what are everyone's initial ..."


I thought it was the best of the three. I don't like Christian, and never will


message 5: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Becky wrote: "I hope there is isn't a time frame, as I won't be able to get into this discussion until the evening. I can't wait."

No worries, Becky. We'll be discussing this for weeks. I was just anxious to get it started. LOL


Viola | 1014 comments I'm at 91%! Will chime in when I'm done.


message 7: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments Sheila wrote: "Becky wrote: "I hope there is isn't a time frame, as I won't be able to get into this discussion until the evening. I can't wait."

No worries, Becky. We'll be discussing this for weeks. I was just..."


This is my first time, thanks, I'll be reading it for weeks too. I can't wait to hear all the different ideas, thoughts and feelings.
Thanks


message 8: by Veronica (new) - added it

Veronica (veraj121) | 291 comments I just starting reading this book. In fact I read the first 3 chapters commuting to work. So far it's ok. Not the best. But it's holding my interest. I noticed she like ton use the words murmur and mutter a lot. Do this characters not open their mouth when they speak? I'm just asking


Viola | 1014 comments Okay done.

I did like this book A LOT better than the first one. I wished that the two were combined into one book. It makes more sense that way. Stories should have story arcs. There should be definitive beginning, middles, and ends. They should not be arbitrarily cut off in the middle to generate more sales. I felt like the first and second book together creates a good story arc. The last scene with J.Hyde seems tacked on to create suspense for the third book.

Both of the main characters in this book were much more likable, although I still wouldn't say that Christian Grey is the guy for me.

I think the appeal of this story is the damaged boy being changed for the better by the girl -- and it's always just that one special girl -- no one else can do it but her. I know some women are drawn to bad boys in hopes of being able to change them. And this story feeds into that type of fairy tale.

I still had issues with the terrible writing, but I went into that during our first discussion and there's no need to repeat it here.


message 10: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Viola, I felt the same way, in that book 1 & 2 could have been combined into one book and made a complete story (as long as the author took off that last scene to create a lead in for book 3). Let's see, if she had taken out 90% of the unnecessary (in my opinion, anyway) sex scenes, then the two books combined could have made a decent length story. :o)

So how about everyone else, what did you think of the last scene with Ana's ex-boss? Do you think it added good suspense, or do you think it was unnecessary?


Viola | 1014 comments One minor question. Who is Ros? I could probably look this up myself, but I don't want to bother doing the work.


Viola | 1014 comments Oh, and, I don't think you could have cut out the sex scenes in this book. I mean, maybe you could have for some of them, but the central obstacle in the love story is that he is a sadist. And I don't see how you can have that in the story without the sex scenes. It can't have the same effect if you just put the sex scenes "off camera". Unfortunately, IMO, the sex scenes were horribly written, but well, it all goes back to my main critique of the writing.


message 13: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Viola wrote: "One minor question. Who is Ros? I could probably look this up myself, but I don't want to bother doing the work."

The woman who worked for Christian, who was in the helicopter crash with him. I think she is a lesbian, if I remember correctly.


Viola | 1014 comments Yeah, I knew she was in the helicopter crash, I just didn't know who she was beyond that. The lesbian thing helps, since there was a reference to how she was perceived to be not a threat to Ana.


Tyler (tyleralysea) | 63 comments I totally liked the second book better, out of the three it's my fave. I think cause I had made it through the first book I was less embarrassed by this book and didn't have to skip all the kinky stuff the second time around. For some reason it didn't seem as "bad" to me. Again though like in the first, some of the stuff was really predictable because of the Twilight connection, you knew the break up would take a little time but you knew they'd come together again. I think since there are only 3 books they kinda melded the second two twilight books together for this one.


message 16: by Becky (last edited Jun 15, 2012 05:23PM) (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments I thought the second one was better than the first. I enjoyed about the first half of the 2nd, as I thought it was going to really get into more the characters which it did, sort of. At the end of the first and beginning of the second I thought Anna was really starting to come out into her own as a confident, independent woman as she could hand it back to Christian. But then she would give into him. I realize this is fiction, but how does this depicit us as women? That we are submissive, have low self esteem, no brains.I have a difficult putting punishing of any sort or brain washing as a sing of "love", as what I get from Christian. I realize some people may enjoy this, but are into that sort of thing. The story with all the sex became repetitive and tediuous after a while. I kept saying to myself, "okay, I get it," can we actually get on a story line and stay with it.
There were a lot of little sub-plots that I felt came and went too quickly. I don't like Christian and doubt I will. He is egotistical, overly controling and uses his childhood and teen life as an excuse to dominate and hurt others.


message 17: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Okay, here is another question...Christian hitting the floor and going into the submissive's pose...what were your first thoughts when you read this? :o)


message 18: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments Sheila wrote: "Okay, here is another question...Christian hitting the floor and going into the submissive's pose...what were your first thoughts when you read this? :o)"

I thought it was a ploy to get back the control he was obviously losing over Anna with her expressing her independence. To make her feel guilty, and another ploy of punishment. He seems to use anything and everything he can.


Tyler (tyleralysea) | 63 comments I though Christian going all submissive was unexpected. I couldn't tell if it was a ruse or a natural reaction. I think it kind of bothered me cause I found it unbelievable.


Viola | 1014 comments I did like the fact that Ana took on J. Hyde on her own rather than have Christian come in to save the day.

---

Unfortunately, Christian going submissive was spoiled for me because I read that one review that outlined the entire plot of the original fan fic story, Master of the Universe.

I thought it was believable. I just went along with the story. Overall, I didn't have much of a problem with the second book in the same way that Becky did.


message 21: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
I wasn't sure what to think when Christian went submissive. I wasn't sure if he was just being manipulative, or if he was really SO messed up that he was reverting to this as all he knew. It almost made me feel sorry for him, but I didn't know if I should believe him.

Viola, I also liked the fact that Ana took on J. Hyde on her own, except that Christian and his men did beat him up that last evening when he hit on Ana late...which leads to the very ending of the book. So, what did everyone think of the ending, with Jack Hyde, in the dark, stalking Christian and Ana, and admiting to himself that he was the cause of the helicopter crash. This seemed like it was just added to make a "to be continued" for book three.

Do you think he is after them because he read all the emails that Ana sent to Christian using the office email? Even though Christian kept telling her not to?


Viola | 1014 comments I think J.Hyde is just supposed to be the one-dimensional villain in this story. He's simply the bad guy for no other reason than he's supposed to be the bad guy in the story. He has less motivation for being so than James Bond/superhero villains -- at least they wanted money/power. I don't think that Hyde has any compelling motivation. I think the whole email thing is weird and weak.

Eh, you know, the story is what it is and I take it that way. It's not great literature, and so, why try to judge it as if it were?


message 23: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments Viola wrote: "I think J.Hyde is just supposed to be the one-dimensional villain in this story. He's simply the bad guy for no other reason than he's supposed to be the bad guy in the story. He has less motivatio..."

I thought Hyde was mad because he found out Grey owned the company and he (Hyde) had a thing for Anna. I liked how the second book ended. At least it was something of a mystery instead of just being totally about Anna and Christian. If anything, that mystery wanted me to read the third.


message 24: by Christine (last edited Jun 19, 2012 07:53AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Christine | 1311 comments Becky wrote: "Viola wrote: "I think J.Hyde is just supposed to be the one-dimensional villain in this story. He's simply the bad guy for no other reason than he's supposed to be the bad guy in the story. He has ..."

If I remember correctly, you will find the connection between Hyde and Christian in Book 3. There most assuredly is motivation...


Viola | 1014 comments Christine -- Thanks for pointing that out. I guess, then, there is more reason for me to continue.

Even with the whole thing about Hyde being interested in Ana and the company takeover, it still felt like weak motivation IMO. No normal person would get so offended and act the way that Hyde did.


Bookworm Adventure Girl (bookwormadventuregirl) Book 3 will clear all of the Hyde questions. It will all make sense eventually.


message 27: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
More questions... :o)

What are everyone's thoughts on Mrs. Robinson? Do you like her or hate her? What did you think of the confrontation at the party, overheard by Christian's mom?

What did you think of ex-submissive Leila? What were your thoughts on Christian giving her the bath? If you were Ana, how would you have reacted to all of this?

And...one of my "irks" of this book...what did you think fo Ana CONSTANTLY referring to Christian as "My Fifty"? (my personal reaction was one that involved gagging, retching, and eye rolling! LOL)


message 28: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments I HATE Mrs. Robinson and just can't understand how an adult can take a toubled child and do that to him. And justify it? How can these people live with themselves? To me that are no better than pediphiles(spelling?) and child rapists. Sorry, but I truely hate her. She deserved worse. I was really interested in knowing more about his adoptive parents, especially his mom. I wish the writer would have done more with the other characters. I just can't believe a professional woman like Grace had no idea what was going on, but the confrontation was excellent. I would have done more than slapped the witch though. I felt sorry for Leila. We didn't really get to know alot about her, and her past, which sort of left me scratching my head. How many of his ex-subs ended up like her? A very sad thing. I would have shot Christian! There are alot of things that "irked" me, but I can't take up the whole blog. Anna is so immature, naive, and I think has such disrespect for herself. The "My Fifty" just proves it for me.


message 29: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments Christine wrote: "Becky wrote: "Viola wrote: "I think J.Hyde is just supposed to be the one-dimensional villain in this story. He's simply the bad guy for no other reason than he's supposed to be the bad guy in the ..."
Yes you do, but I didn't want to spoil anyone's reading of book 3 either


Viola | 1014 comments I don't understand Mrs. Robinson as a character. Then again, I don't think this author is that skilled in crafting characters to begin with. To me, she just doesn't add up. Supposedly, she is some older woman who preyed on Christian when he was young. But then, he credits her for saving him. She is his only friend. They are business partners. Then she gets jealous when he announces that he is going to marry Ana. Then she and Ana get into a big confrontation. I just don't get it. To me, it doesn't add up. This character makes no sense.

Despite the outward appearances, I kept thinking there must me something deeper to make Christian think that she was his savior and that she was his only friend. I did not get the impression that she was in love with him. I just cannot wrap my head around this character. What would the story be like from her point of view? I can't reconcile all of her different aspects. All the little snippets that we get of her. They don't add up to one character to me.

I want to know more about her redeeming qualities -- why did Christian regard her so well? Why was she his only friend?

But then at the end of the book, we are just left with her as another generic villain. Maybe some of you will tell me there is more in Book 3, but somehow, I think that the confrontation in Book 2 was the end of her.


Viola | 1014 comments Oh and Sheila --
I also didn't care for "My fifty", but a lot of the writing in the book irks me. I think the one that irked me the most was her infuriatingly annoying "inner goddess". And it got worse when her inner goddess started to do gymnastics and ice skating. My reaction: WTF? Seriously?


Tyler (tyleralysea) | 63 comments Uhg Mrs. Robinson was so annoying. Just an jealous woman in my book that's why she was so obsessive. Didn't Christian call it off with her? If so then that makes sense why she was having such a problem. Same with Leila, everyone wanted to know what made Ana so special? Clearly it wasn't her annoying internal musings.

On the other side I can understand why Christian was so attached to Mrs. Robinson, the savior thing totally makes sense to me. She grounded him when he needed it, granted she didn't it in a seriously f'd up way, but she was a stabilizing force. So to me it makes much more sense why he would keep going back to her because he sees her as someone he can talk to about almost anything and who he has shared so much with.

The whole Leila story was really interesting to me, I liked that little diversion. The whole bathing thing was kinda messed up and I the whole turning into a Dom to get her to snap out of it was weird too, if I had been Ana I would so not have tolerated that, I would have gotten out of the apartment and called the Cops and told them to come get her ass and take care of her. I have little tolerance for crazy.


message 33: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Viola wrote: "I think the one that irked me the most was her infuriatingly annoying "inner goddess". And it got worse when her inner goddess started to do gymnastics and ice skating. My reaction: WTF? Seriously? "

HA HA HA HA!!!! I hear you, Viola!
Did it seem to anyone else like her inner goddess had the maturity of a 13 year old, which is actually pretty inappropriate considering the kinky things the inner goddess was often reacting to??


message 34: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Becky wrote: "I felt sorry for Leila. We didn't really get to know alot about her, and her past, which sort of left me scratching my head. How many of his ex-subs ended up like her? A very sad thing."

Interesting question, Becky. I wonder if Leila was a unique case for an ex-sub, going all whacko and obsessive? Were the other ex-subs tough chicks who really enjoyed the whole game, and who went on into other relationships as either subs or as doms? What made Leila crack? Did she actually fall in love with Christian (like Ana did) and then he didn't want anything with her past a Dom/Sub relationship?


message 35: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Tyler wrote: "Uhg Mrs. Robinson was so annoying. Just an jealous woman in my book that's why she was so obsessive. Didn't Christian call it off with her? "

I don't understand why Mrs. Robinson was so obsessive either. Wasn't she now involved in another Dom/Sub relationship? I seem to recall the one day she came to the apartment to complain to Christian about someone trying to blackmail her or something like that, that he mentioned a guy, and when Ana asked who the guy was, he said it was her current Sub, and said for Ana not to get upset because Mrs. Robinson's current Sub. was a consenting adult.

My mind is working now...so the author writes these books about the BDSM scene, but now all the BDSM participants are turning out to be messed up, psycho, neurotic, or obsessive people? Is there a message here from the author that BSDM relationships are messed up and wrong in her opinion, and her way of saying this is to make all these characters messed up, and lovely, sweet, virginal Ana has to come into the scene to 'save' Christian from this world??


message 36: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments I love you people! I thought I was the only one in the universe who felt these things about the book and the characters. Whew!!!!


message 37: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments I don't know that much about the BSDM. This was my first experience with it. To me its all like brain washing. All that controling and punishing if you don't OBEY! My goodness, I treat my pets better. I would hope young naive virgin girls would run so fast from that. I really feel they prey on low self-esteemed human beings who just want someone to notice and care about them. DUH? Like Christian?I honestly felt that Anna was, in here own way, just as sick as Christian. But for different reasons. Just my opinion.


message 38: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments Sheila wrote: "Becky wrote: "I felt sorry for Leila. We didn't really get to know alot about her, and her past, which sort of left me scratching my head. How many of his ex-subs ended up like her? A very sad thin..."

Thats why I said earlier, that the other characters thrown into this story never really evolved. I would have much rather have known more about them then all the time Christian and Anna and sex. The whole series has left me scratching my head. For me the incident with Leila just never came together. Same with Mrs. Robinson. I am more frustruated than entertained.


Viola | 1014 comments My mind is working now...so the author writes these books about the BDSM scene, but now all the BDSM participants are turning out to be messed up, psycho, neurotic, or obsessive people? Is there a message here from the author that BSDM relationships are messed up and wrong in her opinion, and her way of saying this is to make all these characters messed up, and lovely, sweet, virginal Ana has to come into the scene to 'save' Christian from this world??

Sheila -- I don't know. Maybe. I think that definitely the author intended to have Ana "save" Christian. That she was the one and only to be able to change him. But at the same time, she does engage in some aspects of BDSM and she enjoys it in the second book. So, I don't think the author necessarily is condemning the practice entirely.


Wendy (wldinnis) I read these books about a month ago, and I believe that the story was broken up in a weird way. I think it should have been one whole book instead of three. The stopping points did not seem to be natural. As faar as Ana saving Christian, I think he retreats way too much in the second book to where he becomes submissive to her wishes (and not just in that one talked about scene). I think he is reverting to what he knows to keep her but the dominant role is not a natural one for her.


Viola | 1014 comments Who is going on to read the 3rd book?


message 42: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
I don't have a copy yet, but I will probably go on to read it...just because I want to see how this whole things ends. :o)


Viola | 1014 comments I have to say that I'm really looking forward to the movie of this series. All of my issues with this book have to do with the terrible writing, and that problem could very easily be eliminated in the movie version. And so, I'm super duper excited for the movie. It has the potential to be really good.


message 44: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca I have been waiting so I am in.


Wendy (wldinnis) I have already read the third book so I would love to discuss it with anyone who wants to.

As for a movie, a few of my coworkers were already talking about who they would cast for the leads. :)


message 46: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
This was in the "editorial" section of my newspaper this morning (Viola, the end of the editorial made me laugh, and made me think of you):

Published June 22, 2012

Libraries don’t cast shadow on ‘Fifty Shades’

Unlike some libraries in other parts of the United States, the South Sound’s Timberland Regional Library system is stocking “Fifty Shades of Grey,” the soft-core erotic trilogy still topping the best-seller lists.

Library boards in Florida, Wisconsin and other states have refused to put the E.L. James’ novels on their shelves, saying they are quasi-pornographic, if not outright so. But we think Timberland made the right decision.

It’s true that “Fifty Shades of Grey” depicts in rather stark detail the S&M nature of a relationship between a wealthy older man and a naive college student. Graphic scenes of bondage and whippings, and the pleasure it seems to give both participants, have been called mommy porn because of the millions of females who can’t wait to read it.

Library users in the South Sound are apparently no different. Timberland has 34 copies of the books. They are all out on loan, and there are 358 requests on hold, waiting for the books’ return.

Timberland’s communications manager, Jeff Kleingartner, says it is not typical for the library’s board to restrict books. “Fifty Shades” is available in both print and electronic formats through the system’s 27 community libraries, two co-op centers and three kiosks in Grays Harbor, Lewis, Mason, Pacific and Thurston counties.

We’re fortunate to have a library board that understands modern realities. Other librarians who have banned this book – or did so initially and then reversed their decisions, as in a well-publicized Florida case – justified their positions by stating what appears on the surface to be a common-sense position: We don’t buy pornography for the library.

That is true, and libraries used to be the gatekeepers for upholding community standards – as if anyone could ever actually define definitively what those are. But that’s not the case any longer.

In a digital and global community, where everyone is just one click away from unlimited access to almost anything you can imagine – and a few things you probably can’t – libraries, schools, city hall or any other brick-and-mortar institution no longer define those standards. The gate is gone.

The community itself now decides what it will accept or not, and “Fifty Shades of Grey” is obviously something people in the Timberland Regional Library would want to read. And libraries exist to serve the public.

The American Library Association’s own statement, called “Freedom To Read” says, in part, “There is no place in our society for efforts to coerce the taste of others, to confine adults to the reading matter deemed suitable for adolescents, or to inhibit the efforts of writers to achieve artistic expression.”

If there ever was a good reason not to stock British author James’ (real name: Erika Leonard) “Fifty Shades of Grey,” we suggest its dreadful writing. One Amazon.com reviewer summed up the appalling prose this way:

“Characters roll their eyes 41 times, Ana bites her lip 35 times, Christian’s lips ‘quirk up’ 16 times, Christian ‘cocks his head to one side’ 17 times, characters ‘purse’ their lips 15 times and characters raise their eyebrows a whopping 50 times … if I wrote like that, I’d use a pseudonym, too.”


Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/2012/06/22...


message 47: by Christine (last edited Jun 22, 2012 07:37AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Christine | 1311 comments Viola, did you write that review on Amazon??? :)
LOL Just kidding
Have to admit that is funny !!


message 48: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
So do we want to do a discussion of Book 3? We can go for a start date of July 15th (that will space them all out a month apart) for anyone interested. :o)

As for the movie...who does everyone see playing the characters? Would you like it to go with the actors from the Twilight movies (Robert Pattison and Kristen Stewart), or would you prefer completely different actors. If so, who? :o)


message 49: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments I have already read the 3rd book so I am in for the 15th of July.


message 50: by Becky (new)

Becky (ebab) | 1813 comments I don't usually watch movies from books that I have read. After I have read a book, I have used my imagination of what the characters look like and are like and the whole setting. I have never found any actor or actress that is what I envision, and somehow if I see the actors, it blows my feelings and concepts of the book. For 50 Shades? The movie is going to have to be labeled pornographic, or it is going to be destroyed for censorship. My personal opinion..just let it be!


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