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The Secret Life of Bees
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Robbie
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Jan 02, 2009 06:36PM

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Yay! I finished this book in two days over New Year's break (I took a day off work on Friday). It's a beautiful story. I haven't seen the movie, only the previews, but immediately I thought of Dakota Fanning, Queen Latifah & Alicia Keys while reading.
Unfortunately, I did not get around to read the book yet. I hope though I'll be able to join in later during the month.
Maybe I'll get my Mom to watch the movie with me, then I'll join the movie discussion earlier, although I normally don't like to see the movie first.
Maybe I'll get my Mom to watch the movie with me, then I'll join the movie discussion earlier, although I normally don't like to see the movie first.




1. Were you surprised to learn that T. Ray used to be different, that once he truly loved Deborah? How do you think Deborah's leaving affected him? Did it shed any light on why T. Ray was so cruel and abusive to Lily?
2. Had you ever heard of "kneeling on grits"? What qualities did Lily have that allowed her to survive, endure, and eventually thrive, despite T. Ray?
3. Who is the queen bee in this story?
4. Lily's relationship to her dead mother was complex, ranging from guilt to idealization, to hatred, to acceptance. What happens to a daughter when she discovers her mother once abandoned her? Is Lily right—would people generally rather die than forgive? Was it harder for Lily to forgive her mother or herself?
5. Lily grew up without her mother, but in the end she finds a house full of them. Have you ever had a mother figure in your life who wasn't your true mother? Have you ever had to leave home to find home?
6. What compelled Rosaleen to spit on the three men's shoes? What does it take for a person to stand up with conviction against brutalizing injustice? What did you like best about Rosaleen?
7. Had you ever heard of the Black Madonna? What do you think of the story surrounding the Black Madonna in the novel? How would the story be different if it had been a picture of a white Virgin Mary? Do you know women whose lives have been deepened or enriched by a connection to an empowering Divine Mother?
8. Why is it important that women come together? What did you think of the "Calendar Sisters" and the Daughters of Mary? How did being in the company of this circle of females transform Lily?
9. May built a wailing wall to help her come to terms with the pain she felt. Even though we don't have May's condition, do we also need "rituals," like wailing walls, to help us deal with our grief and suffering?
10. How would you describe Lily and Zach's relationship? What drew them together? Did you root for them to be together?
11. Project into the future. Does Lily ever see her father again? Does she become a beekeeper? A writer? What happens to Rosaleen? What happens to Lily and Zach? Who would Zach be today?
I'm about 2/3 into the book. This is my second reading. All I remembered was that I loved it, but I had forgotten much of the story.
I totally agree with Jon--it's a beautiful story, but fails the five star mark for me due to being a little formulamatic and at times heavy-handed (to me). But I LOVE the imagery and of course, all of the "women's themes". I said once that IF I could write a story, I would want it to be just like this one (being from the South makes it even more familiar feeling). It's just really a beautiful idea and for the most part very well-executed. Will respond to questions when I'm finished.
I hadn't planned on seeing this movie, but now I want to. Did anyone find it hard to believe that this was only set forty years ago...I really feel like we as a country have come a long way since then (in terms of civil rights). Am I right?
Has anyone read The Mermaid Chair? It was a bit disapointing to me, after this one.
I totally agree with Jon--it's a beautiful story, but fails the five star mark for me due to being a little formulamatic and at times heavy-handed (to me). But I LOVE the imagery and of course, all of the "women's themes". I said once that IF I could write a story, I would want it to be just like this one (being from the South makes it even more familiar feeling). It's just really a beautiful idea and for the most part very well-executed. Will respond to questions when I'm finished.
I hadn't planned on seeing this movie, but now I want to. Did anyone find it hard to believe that this was only set forty years ago...I really feel like we as a country have come a long way since then (in terms of civil rights). Am I right?
Has anyone read The Mermaid Chair? It was a bit disapointing to me, after this one.
I finished The Secret Life of Bees yesterday night and have to agree with all of you:
The story is very sweet, the imagery and the women empowerment themes are great. I loved the calendar sisters, the Daughters of Mary and also Lily because there characters were very realistic - I could have imagined any of them to have lived some day.
My favorite character was June, I guess. I can't even say why, she had faults like all the characters in the story, but I loved her seriousness and that she was, although she was so very strong, afraid of living her life fully. That made her very human to me.
I did not enjoy the end as much, the last couple of pages - the romantic in me wanted Lily to stay with the calendar daughters and to be with Zack, but it would have been so much more realistic that her father took her home - I can't imagine a father, not even T.Ray, to leave his daughter with complete strangers, not back in 1964, not today.
The last 3 couple of pages finally, the thing with her having a friend all of a sudden, Becca, was a bit far-fetched in my opinion - that all of her dreams came true at once.
I've got the edition with the questions in the annex. That's the Penguin edition and the annex is called A Reader's guide to the Secret Life of bees. It also features an interview with Sue Monk Kidd on how she created the book. If you are interested, I can post it or see if I can find it on the Internet.
The story is very sweet, the imagery and the women empowerment themes are great. I loved the calendar sisters, the Daughters of Mary and also Lily because there characters were very realistic - I could have imagined any of them to have lived some day.
My favorite character was June, I guess. I can't even say why, she had faults like all the characters in the story, but I loved her seriousness and that she was, although she was so very strong, afraid of living her life fully. That made her very human to me.
I did not enjoy the end as much, the last couple of pages - the romantic in me wanted Lily to stay with the calendar daughters and to be with Zack, but it would have been so much more realistic that her father took her home - I can't imagine a father, not even T.Ray, to leave his daughter with complete strangers, not back in 1964, not today.
The last 3 couple of pages finally, the thing with her having a friend all of a sudden, Becca, was a bit far-fetched in my opinion - that all of her dreams came true at once.
I've got the edition with the questions in the annex. That's the Penguin edition and the annex is called A Reader's guide to the Secret Life of bees. It also features an interview with Sue Monk Kidd on how she created the book. If you are interested, I can post it or see if I can find it on the Internet.

*possible spoilers*
I agree with almost everything everybody said. And I think it's interesting that so far we've all basically had the same reaction. I really enjoyed the book. It was a nice fast read for me, which was really different from the previous book I read (Brideshead Revisited) because I couldn't read it fast, I had to read for details. I do agree that the part with T. Ray seemed very unrealistic. I was expecting her to go back with him and help him change by loving him. I thought there would be like an epilogue where she would have come back every summer to see August, June, and Zach and then the epilogue would have been at her wedding. But that's how the story went in my head. :)
I loved all of the quotes about the bees. I had a lot of fun reading them, which is surprising because normally I do not like to read quotes (especially long ones) in books and find them cumbersome to the story. But I really thought they contributed.
Alison, I completely agree with you about how far our country has come. I was really amazed to remember (for I've read about it before) how bad the country was 40 years ago. My dad lived through that time (my mom was in Montana where the racism problems were with the American Indians), and it's so weird to hear him talk about it. I don't want to cause a really tense racial discussion, but this has been really interesting because I have a roommate moving in anytime that I've never met and she's black. I have two adopted siblings from Korea and so race has never meant anything to me because my family is biracial. But, my mom and I have talked a little bit about the fact perhaps that my roommate might be nervous. She's hated her previous roommate, and so she might be nervous about living with me for many different reasons. I don't know. My parents live in Memphis (I used to live there and live in Nashville now), which sometimes seems like such a racial charged city; so racism is something I have thought a lot about. Race just never seems important to me in judging people, though I see that type of misjudgment almost every day that I am home in Memphis. But reading this book has really made me think about racism all over again as I wait for the arrival of my new roommate. It makes me sad that some people are still racist (thought I think that it probably can never go away completely) and also that some people cater to the racist ideal. Having lived in Memphis, I know that racism is not over. But I wonder what you guy's thoughts are on current racism in the country.
oh last question: who was your favorite character of the "Calendar sisters"? August, June, or May? And has anyone met anybody like May before? I've heard of people who are so compassionate that they take on the pain of others. But has anyone known someone?
Interesting comments, Hannah. Well, I, too, live in Memphis (well, in the suburbs). Small world! You are right in that like most of our big (and small) Southern cities, there is still much racial tension. I also see many issues of different races coming together to do good as well.
It's difficult to discuss this book without touching on race, because race relations is a major theme. The way that people were treated so differently based on their skin color--particularly Zach when he is taken to jail--was really heart-wrenching and one would LIKE to think that our legal system is much more JUST currently, but I'm sure instances still exist. But, more postiively, it was nice to see the nurturing relationship that existed between Lily and Rosaleen, as well as August (regardless of race).
Reading this book during a time when we (Americans)are about to have our first African-American President is especially poignant, and really brings to light how ways of thinking can change so drastically between just one, or two generations of people.
Hannah: Best of luck with your new roomate. When I started nursing school (16 years ago), I did not know my roomate, but we have been friends ever since. Actually, we just were e-mailing last night. :)
It's difficult to discuss this book without touching on race, because race relations is a major theme. The way that people were treated so differently based on their skin color--particularly Zach when he is taken to jail--was really heart-wrenching and one would LIKE to think that our legal system is much more JUST currently, but I'm sure instances still exist. But, more postiively, it was nice to see the nurturing relationship that existed between Lily and Rosaleen, as well as August (regardless of race).
Reading this book during a time when we (Americans)are about to have our first African-American President is especially poignant, and really brings to light how ways of thinking can change so drastically between just one, or two generations of people.
Hannah: Best of luck with your new roomate. When I started nursing school (16 years ago), I did not know my roomate, but we have been friends ever since. Actually, we just were e-mailing last night. :)

First I wanted to say that here in this group we shouldn't assume that USA is "our" country. I love that this is an international group! So while I don't think anyone was, let's be sure we don't alienate (or for that matter confuse) anyone with comments based on that assumption.
That said, I like the discussion about "how far we've come" and yet how close it really is. When I watch the classic movies of the 40's (LOVE them), it's fascinating to think that they were about the same distance from the Civil War as we are from them. Watching them I see the leaps and bounds of societal evolution, yet I also see how little we've changed in so many ways.
Regarding race relations, I feel the same way. I was raised to see no difference in color. But I think how much more personal pride a person can have who was not raised as I was, but somehow has grown to see only that one color - the color of humanity. Regardless, sadly some hearts, and the hearts of some areas of this country - be they small or large communities, have not changed their ways.
Taking this to an international level, there is the epic and unending struggle between the Israelis and the Palestinians (to name one of many). There are those within each of those groups who have the ability to see no real difference and can embrace their counterparts. Sadly, at this point in history in that region of the world there are fewer of the accepting than those filled with resentment, bitterness, and hatred. Whether or not they will reach a state of peace in their hearts for and toward one another, there will be a time when things will be better. Yet, there still will always be those trained up and stuck in that prideful, twisted mindset because, just like the rest of us (hint-hint), they are human. We are human. And sadly, that is a part of humanity... the thing of it is, individually we choose just how much a part it is. I'd say in this case, less truly is more.
That said, I like the discussion about "how far we've come" and yet how close it really is. When I watch the classic movies of the 40's (LOVE them), it's fascinating to think that they were about the same distance from the Civil War as we are from them. Watching them I see the leaps and bounds of societal evolution, yet I also see how little we've changed in so many ways.
Regarding race relations, I feel the same way. I was raised to see no difference in color. But I think how much more personal pride a person can have who was not raised as I was, but somehow has grown to see only that one color - the color of humanity. Regardless, sadly some hearts, and the hearts of some areas of this country - be they small or large communities, have not changed their ways.
Taking this to an international level, there is the epic and unending struggle between the Israelis and the Palestinians (to name one of many). There are those within each of those groups who have the ability to see no real difference and can embrace their counterparts. Sadly, at this point in history in that region of the world there are fewer of the accepting than those filled with resentment, bitterness, and hatred. Whether or not they will reach a state of peace in their hearts for and toward one another, there will be a time when things will be better. Yet, there still will always be those trained up and stuck in that prideful, twisted mindset because, just like the rest of us (hint-hint), they are human. We are human. And sadly, that is a part of humanity... the thing of it is, individually we choose just how much a part it is. I'd say in this case, less truly is more.
As for my reactions to the book. Well, I would have to agree the writing is rather low quality and it coming on the heels of an extremely well written book I'd literally JUST finished, that discrepancy was glaring. However, on the flip side, this book engaged deep, true emotion, something few books achieve, in a tangible and moving manner. In that way this book was outstanding.
Yes, also the story was formulaic. But again to counter that, it had a resonance and beauty that cuts deep.
I'll talk more specifically about the characters, allegories, and themes in an later post, but on a personal note, my understanding of aspects of what Lily was feeling was overwhelming at times. I was, well, shocked. Unfortunately in my case, I don't have any amazing women around to build me up and love on me like she did. But I suppose at least it was rather therapeutic to cry through it!
Yes, also the story was formulaic. But again to counter that, it had a resonance and beauty that cuts deep.
I'll talk more specifically about the characters, allegories, and themes in an later post, but on a personal note, my understanding of aspects of what Lily was feeling was overwhelming at times. I was, well, shocked. Unfortunately in my case, I don't have any amazing women around to build me up and love on me like she did. But I suppose at least it was rather therapeutic to cry through it!



I'm diving into Emma tonight: great choice!

Thank you so much for that comment - its nice to be remembered! Not that id ever take any offence, especially to the 'how far we've come' comment as that could mean the human race. But that said as with most international websites, it is very US dominated, to certain extent that covers book choices and most popular reads too. Im a Londoner living on the bottom of the planet in Australia so its nice to be remembered occasionally!
Now after that - youll probably expell me from the group because i dont actually know who Rory Gilmore is! but i wanted to join in the bees discussiion as id never got involved in one to a book i was reading before. Thanks guys. x
Jon, I am European, too, (if you consider yourself European, that is : ) One never knows with you Britons ; ))from Germany.
I did not mind either that someone was referring to the US as their country - it is your country, after all, and I know that most members in our group live in the states. GG also is an US production.
Anyway, I don't think that civil rights date further back in any country. Speaking for my own, I can say that WE only got civil rights after WW2, as we were able to form a real constitution. I don't know how it is about the constitution of your countries, but the human and civil rights are the only paragraphs in our constitution that cannot be removed or changed. That is very telling and important to me, as it clearly shows how much mankind has evolved in the last couple of decades.
I did not mind either that someone was referring to the US as their country - it is your country, after all, and I know that most members in our group live in the states. GG also is an US production.
Anyway, I don't think that civil rights date further back in any country. Speaking for my own, I can say that WE only got civil rights after WW2, as we were able to form a real constitution. I don't know how it is about the constitution of your countries, but the human and civil rights are the only paragraphs in our constitution that cannot be removed or changed. That is very telling and important to me, as it clearly shows how much mankind has evolved in the last couple of decades.

And..yes i consider myself as European, but also English and then British and to a certain extent Australian (after all I have the passport!) - so a bit confusing - I probably support which ever team is winning if its a sport lol.
Anyway...feel free to go back to discussing bees folks, sorry for intrusion!
Thanks for the comments, guys. I was actually trying to keep the international members in mind with my comments, but may have still come off as sounding like a very elitist ethnocentric American! :) My apologies. I was basically referring to civil rights in the U.S. because the American South was the setting for this selection, and I think the setting was a very significant "character" in this book, as well as the time period.
So, I guess some of our international members might have to do a little research into American history to get the full grasp of this novel. As I have to do research whenever I'm reading a novel written by someone from another country (or let's say I should).
I'm thinking about giving this one two stars instead of three. It just felt so predictable! I'll have to work it out in my review. :)
Jon--I'm so glad you decided to join us. If you haven't googled her by now--Rory Gilmore was a character on the television series "The Gilmore Girls" who was known for being a strong and intelligent young lady and a constant reader. The show put out an official list of books mentioned on their series, from which we select a monthly reading here. We also talk about the series in other threads, but you certainly don't have to watch the show to get in on the discussions. Nominations are open for March in the voting thread below. :)
So, I guess some of our international members might have to do a little research into American history to get the full grasp of this novel. As I have to do research whenever I'm reading a novel written by someone from another country (or let's say I should).
I'm thinking about giving this one two stars instead of three. It just felt so predictable! I'll have to work it out in my review. :)
Jon--I'm so glad you decided to join us. If you haven't googled her by now--Rory Gilmore was a character on the television series "The Gilmore Girls" who was known for being a strong and intelligent young lady and a constant reader. The show put out an official list of books mentioned on their series, from which we select a monthly reading here. We also talk about the series in other threads, but you certainly don't have to watch the show to get in on the discussions. Nominations are open for March in the voting thread below. :)

Don't worry, a number of us never saw GG before joining the group, and I imagine lots of us still haven't. It's not always a part of many of the discussions, and the booklist is great!



Yes, being from Michigan and attending college there, I remember an (African-American) instructor commenting how the people in the north were just more sneaky about their prejudices. I really wanted to believe the stuff about Lily and Zach especially. I just wondered how many young black men would really be so brave. And I SO wanted them to somehow get together!

Prior to reading this book I read The Book Thief..and it was the same sort of reaction..how can people really think this way..that they are better than other people based on color, ethnicity, religion, etc.??

As far as language and writing goes (from what I can remember),it was not shakespeare or hemmingway, but I did not think that that took away from the story at all. I found that the story flowed well and defintiely captivated my attention.
At the time that I read the book, I did not think much about Lily and Zach's relationship. The only thing I thought was that I loved them together :D I think that their relationship was realistic. They were both young and the younger generation always seems to be a little more open minded than the previous generation.
I do think that the sisters proably would have faced more problems than they did. That is only because of the numerous hate crimes that were going on during the time of the civil rights movmement. They would have been born into the middle of that.
I was wondering though what you all thought of May's Chraracter and her "wall". I remember of the three sisters she intrigued me the most. Now I just have to remember why.....


It does seem that T. Ray letting Lily stay with the calendar sisters in the end is too good to be true. But then again, Lily is so much stronger then to know what she wants. While reading the book i was curious on whether T. Ray could change and be nice to her because he seemed to have the potential to do so -- he became spiteful only because he loved Lily's mother too much. But I think I wouldn't have liked the ending so much if he took Lily home. Maybe a little time apart is what they need and they can make amends in the future... I don't know.

i loved may so much - she was a modern-day 'atlas'; that was her charm and flaw. i think i loved what she represented because it was the best and lowest parts of humanity. man, that heart that reached out for [and wept:] for the world?
hell of a character.
Rayshauna wrote: "i loved may so much - she was a modern-day 'atlas'; that was her charm and flaw. i think i loved what she represented because it was the best and lowest parts of humanity. man, that heart that reached out for [and wept:] for the world?
hell of a character."
REALLY great character synopsis, Rayshauna. And I wholeheartedly agree. She was the heart-anchor of the family, and in many ways the book (in my humble opinion).
hell of a character."
REALLY great character synopsis, Rayshauna. And I wholeheartedly agree. She was the heart-anchor of the family, and in many ways the book (in my humble opinion).
Jessica wrote..."They were both young and the younger generation always seems to be a little more open minded than the previous generation."
That is an excellent point!
That is an excellent point!

I don't think I will ever see the movie, though; when a book is this good, I don't like to risk ruining it with a movie that I might not care for.

I haven't seen the film yet, but plan to when it comes to DVD.
It is a beautiful coming of age story and anyone who has a relationship with a special woman or a few special women will be longing for more time with them.
I just finished this book yesterday and it was a fast read. I enjoyed it very much, but I was a little disappointed at the end. I expected it to be more complex instead of 'all her dreams came true'. I believe someone made a comment about that. I wasn't interested in seeing the movie, but now I'm curious.
I personally wouldn't say that all of her dreams came true... although it does seem like that. I think Lily still misses out in the fact that she couldn't reconcile with her father. But on the other hand, maybe it is more healthy for her to stay away from him for a while.
Dini, I suppose that's true. I would've prefered an ending where there was more closure with the father. I don't like how he just left her there. I would've like to know the reasons why he changed so much.


See, I still feel like it kind of did end that way. A character like T-Ray would just never do what he did and let her stay. I don't buy it. It was a sweet ending, but completely unbelievable really. Very fairytale.
Yes, I had the same impression, especially as we then got a glimpse of how her life was going to continue and she suddenly had a best friend, something she never has had in her life before, and her friend also tolerates Zach. That was when it was too much for me.