Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion
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Ee, Susan - Angelfall - Start Date: May 2nd
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19. Were you surprised Penryn won? We do know she had some pretty darn good training, but still...I wasn't surprised she won, but I think it would have been more realistic if she hadn't.
20. Did you think Obi had any intention of letting her and Raffe go?
I think he would have done his absolute best to convince them to stay and when it came right down to it, I don't think he would have let them leave.
21. What do you make of Dee & Dum? Did they seem a little off to you? Do you think they're fully human? I got a weird vibe from them.
I thought they were really weird. I didn't like them.
22. Do you think Penryn should have agreed to throw the fight? What did you make of the whole situation?
I understand why she did it. If it was her only way out, I think she had to do it.
23. What do you make of the "freaky, evil demons"?
Freaky!!! :). I was trying to figure out what they could be.
24. Were you surprised that Raffe came back for Penryn? What was he talking about, "This is no accident. This sort of ending..."?
No, I think the two of them have helped each other so much they feel a little loyalty to each other. I think there are a lot of angels after Raffe for some reason and the attack on him wasn't the first time.
25. Would you have gone back to camp if you were Penryn or kept going to find your sister?
I probably would have gone back to camp because I would have thought saving my sister wasn't something I could do on my own.
26. What do you make of Penryn's dream? Kind of a stange blur of the camp and something more like a nightmare. Sometimes dreams hold significance. Do you think that is the case here or do you think it's just a result of the camp and seeing those evil little creatures?
I think it's the stress of the horrors she's seen getting to her.
27. What was the couple talking about? The one with the dead little girls? "We fed him little girls!" What the heck is that all about?????
I don't know, but something really horrible has happened to their son!
28. Anyone else wondering just how many bad eggs Penryn's mom has????
When I got to that part, my first thought was - Where is that woman getting all these eggs???
29. Just out of curiosity does anyone feel a 'love' connection happening between Penryn and Raffe? I don't and was curious if it was only me?
I don't think it's a love connection yet, but I think there is starting to be a connection between them. They care about each other's safety. I think Raffe knows a love connection is out of the question so he hasn't considered it - yet. :) I like that. I don't care for the books where the main characters are instantly in love.
30. Interesting that Angels are forbidden from marrying "the daughters of men" because they make in effect monsters/abominations. Could the creatures be Nephilim? Raffe says they fed on humans....
I bet you are right.
31. Sounds like Obi and his gang are going to the city. Think they'll pop up again?
Yes, for sure.
32. Why do you think Raffe has Penryn dressing up like she's going to a party and a sleezy one at that? I'm confused. Anyone else?
I think the angels that attacked Raffe have become evil and like to hang out with women even though they are not supposed to. I think Raffe is trying to sneak into one of their parties.
19. Were you surprised Penryn won? We do know she had some pretty darn good training, but still...I laughed because of the line ""Yeah, you can just watch, Raffe, I got this!"
30. Interesting that Angels are forbidden from marrying "the daughters of men" because they make in effect monsters/abominations. Could the creatures be Nephilim? Raffe says they fed on humans....
conversation between Raffe & Pen:
"What the hell were those things?" I ask.
"I'm not sure."He wipes his sword on his shirt.
"They weren't your kind, were they?"
"No." He slides his sword back into its sheath.
"Well, they certainly weren't mine. Is there a third option?"
"There's always a third option."
"Like freaky, evil demons? I mean, even more evil than angels?"
"Angels aren't evil."
But then he also says: the things in the woods are
"too close to something that shouldn't exist. Let something like that get away, and they'll come back to haunt you. Believe me, I know."
Questions for Chapters 11 - 189) So we now know you need permission to use an angel's sword from the sword itself. Do you buy Raffe's suggestion that the sword read Penryn's intentions and granted permission or do you think something more is going on? If it can read intentions wouldn't it have rebuked that permission later?
I don't think that he has a reason to lie. I have heard this type of thing in other Fantasy books. I agree with Gin, I think it is giving permission based on the person not on the moment.
10) Vital information--you can kill an angel with an angel sword. I wonder what other ways you can kill an angel?
It sounds like they can also be killed with a bullet.
11) Do you think that Raffe's wings can be reattached? Do you think he can grow new ones? I was a little bit sad when I saw him fawning over the feathers of his wings.
I hope that his wings can be attatched, he seems to be a good angel. I doubt he can grow new ones. It was a very emotional scene, and they were apart of his body at one time, so one wouldn't expect any less.
12) What do you think is killing people? Could it truly be other people or kids? I can't imagine human teeth being able to eat chunks of human flesh. *cringe* This seems to be getting a little gory.
I wonder if its the angels? If it is other men and women or even children that is disgusting and I don't see how, even in the times they are living in that they can do it.
13) Did you get what Raffe was trying to do when he started talking about himself being a warrior demigod?
I was confused by his statement and why it seemed like such a big deal. I guess he must be trying to show her that he is not just merely an angel.
14) What did you first think would happen when Raffe and Penryn were first captured? Did you think they'd be killed? Why didn't they give them the soup? I took that as a sign they'd be killed.
I assumed that they would escape rather quickly. I didn't think that their first attempt at leaving would fail. I think they didn't give them the soup to show that they held the power. I think it was a dominance thing.
15) When Obi said, "The men are under strict orders to be gentlemanly toward you." Did anyone else wonder what exactly that meant? I personally thought something a little more sinister than it turned out. I figured woman + men = well, you get the picture.
I think it still does mean that. I don't think we were ever given an idea otherwise. Do I think that he said that as a deterrent to others because he possible wants her? Maybe.
16) Did you think they'd get away when they escaped?
Lol, yes, see above response.
17) What was your first impression of the camp?
I thought it seemed kind of cultish.
18) Were you surprised no one seemed to be stopping the fight?
Yes, I thought for sure that Obi would not tolerate fighting in his camp. It was an interesting story twist.
Questions for Chapters 19 - 26 19. Were you surprised Penryn won? We do know she had some pretty darn good training, but still...
No, I wasn't surprised. I got the feeling that Boden was never really a soldier and cocky people usually let their pride get the better of them in a fight.
20. Did you think Obi had any intention of letting her and Raffe go?
No, I think he was going to wear them down until they both decided to join their cause. Either that or he was going to have them killed.
21. What do you make of Dee & Dum? Did they seem a little off to you? Do you think they're fully human? I got a weird vibe from them.
It sounded to me like they were just teenage boys wanting to see a little action. I didn't get any weird vibes from them.
22. Do you think Penryn should have agreed to throw the fight? What did you make of the whole situation?
She was desperate for any way to get to her sister. In her situation, I probably would have done the same thing. I don't think that it was a right or wrong decision.
23. What do you make of the "freaky, evil demons"?
My guess is that we just got a glimpse of what the Angels are doing with the kids they are taking.
24. Were you surprised that Raffe came back for Penryn? What was he talking about, "This is no accident. This sort of ending..."?
No, as much as he pretends not to care about her, I think that he is either feeling very protective of her, like a little sister kind of, or he is falling in love with her. My guess is the latter. I have a feeling his comment is telling us that many of his kind are killed saving humans. I am betting that their are two kinds of angels.
25. Would you have gone back to camp if you were Penryn or kept going to find your sister?
I would have kept going to find my sister. My family is very important to me and it sounds like it is very important to Penryn too.
26. What do you make of Penryn's dream? Kind of a stange blur of the camp and something more like a nightmare. Sometimes dreams hold significance. Do you think that is the case here or do you think it's just a result of the camp and seeing those evil little creatures?
I think the significance is just that she is so fearful of everything now. She is feeling like anything can happen. I don't think that there is any other significance to the dream, but I could be wrong.
27. What was the couple talking about? The one with the dead little girls? "We fed him little girls!" What the heck is that all about?????
Maybe their child has been turned into one of the monsters and they are trying to return him back to his old self. I think they set up boobie traps to catch animals and instead they ended up catching the girls and he ate them before they found out about it.
28. Anyone else wondering just how many bad eggs Penryn's mom has????
I know I am.
29. Just out of curiosity does anyone feel a 'love' connection happening between Penryn and Raffe? I don't and was curious if it was only me?
I do but I think it is very subtle and I don't know if anything will ever come of it in the books. I especially felt this from the scene of them changing in the car.
30. Interesting that Angels are forbidden from marrying "the daughters of men" because they make in effect monsters/abominations. Could the creatures be Nephilim? Raffe says they fed on humans....
I didn't even make the connection until just now. That is a very good guess.
31. Sounds like Obi and his gang are going to the city. Think they'll pop up again?
Yes, I don't think we are done hearing about them yet.
32. Why do you think Raffe has Penryn dressing up like she's going to a party and a sleezy one at that? I'm confused. Anyone else?
Maybe that is what is attractive to the angels? I am guessing that is the only way she is going to get into the aerie.
Questions for chapters 27 - 3433. I don't know about anyone else but Penryn's mom makes me both shake my head and chuckle. She's a survivor, yet seemingly totally out of her mind. I wish we knew more about her condition. How long ago did she go a little looney and what is the diagnosis? It's really quite sad.
34. Why do you think the guard at the gate made Penryn turn around? Was he just enjoying the view or was there another reason?
35. Thoughts on the club? Which of the angels described did would you least like to meet?
36. With comments like "Because you have the look they're looking for...Beautiful" and "But the fire can be tempting." I wasn't really thinking any sparks, but them there was the kiss described as "He kisses me with the desperation of a dying man who believes the magic of eternal life is in this kiss."
My first thought was maybe he was imagining someone else, but do you think Raffe has some feelings for Penryn? And what about Penryn instigating the kiss? I really didn't feel she liked him that way. Thoughts?
37. I was expecting Penryn to seduce the Albino to the bathroom, did you have a clue how she was going to do it?
38. What do you make of Dee Dum being there?
39. So we now know Raffe's real name Raphael. I looked him up. Ironically according to wikipedia Raphael is an archangel of Judaism and Christianity, who in the Judeo-Christian tradition performs all manners of healing.
40. So it sounds like the Creepy creatures aren't Nephilim.
41. Would you trust Josiah or Laylah?
42. What do you make of Raffe's lack of belief in God?
43. Would you trust Dee Dum to help find your sister?
Questions for Chapters 19 - 2619. Were you surprised Penryn won? We do know she had some pretty darn good training, but still...
I was a bit surprised, there is a big difference in training and actually taking on someone who wants to kill you.
20. Did you think Obi had any intention of letting her and Raffe go?
I think he would have eventually, but he was hoping to take long enough that they'd decide to stay.
21. What do you make of Dee & Dum? Did they seem a little off to you? Do you think they're fully human? I got a weird vibe from them.
I got a weird vibe too, I guess we will find out but I'd be wary of trusting them.
22. Do you think Penryn should have agreed to throw the fight? What did you make of the whole situation?
It was strange, but then its a bunch of guys so it can't be that surprising lol. I think they were up to something and wanted the distraction of the fight.
23. What do you make of the "freaky, evil demons"?
You have no idea how much I'm hoping for Nephilim. Its one of my own personal fascinations.
24. Were you surprised that Raffe came back for Penryn? What was he talking about, "This is no accident. This sort of ending..."?
I wasn't surprised. I think he knew that she was going to try and follow him, so he stuck close by to make sure she would be alright.
25. Would you have gone back to camp if you were Penryn or kept going to find your sister?
I wouldn't have gone back to the camp. It's not a very friendly place to be a woman.
26. What do you make of Penryn's dream? Kind of a stange blur of the camp and something more like a nightmare. Sometimes dreams hold significance. Do you think that is the case here or do you think it's just a result of the camp and seeing those evil little creatures?
I am not sure on this one. If it doesn't have any significance then I'll feel like it was a bit of a waste of a scene.
27. What was the couple talking about? The one with the dead little girls? "We fed him little girls!" What the heck is that all about?????
I think maybe their child is one of the little creatures, and they are conflicted about keeping him content and the fact that he's a monster now.
28. Anyone else wondering just how many bad eggs Penryn's mom has????
Lol, yes! They are turning up in large numbers.
29. Just out of curiosity does anyone feel a 'love' connection happening between Penryn and Raffe? I don't and was curious if it was only me?
I do on her part, but not from him I am not getting the vibe. And from her its mostly a lust vibe, not love.
30. Interesting that Angels are forbidden from marrying "the daughters of men" because they make in effect monsters/abominations. Could the creatures be Nephilim? Raffe says they fed on humans....
I really really hope so. And it would put a whole new spin on the couple and the dead girls if one of these creatures was their son. Or I am thinking that maybe this is what the angels are abducting kids for, to turn them into monsters.
31. Sounds like Obi and his gang are going to the city. Think they'll pop up again?
Most definitely.
32. Why do you think Raffe has Penryn dressing up like she's going to a party and a sleezy one at that? I'm confused. Anyone else?
Me too. But just because consorting with human women is forbidden doesn't mean that everyone follows the rules. So maybe that's what Raffe is up to.
Questions for Chapters 19 - 26 19. Were you surprised Penryn won? We do know she had some pretty darn good training, but still...
I wasn't surprised at the time, but now that I think I about it......I guess I should have been. I know she has a lot of training, but she's only 17. Maybe he just underestimated her because she was a young girl.
20. Did you think Obi had any intention of letting her and Raffe go?
I think he truly believed that they eventually would choose to stay
21. What do you make of Dee & Dum? Did they seem a little off to you? Do you think they're fully human? I got a weird vibe from them.
They were very strange to me, but I didn't really get they vibe that they weren't human.
22. Do you think Penryn should have agreed to throw the fight? What did you make of the whole situation?
I wouldn't have agreed to throw the fight, but I have a really hard time with lying. I suppose in their situation it worked out for the best though. I don't know what else they would have done about him not taking off his shirt
23. What do you make of the "freaky, evil demons"?
At first I thought they were demons, but Raffe then Raffe didn't know what they were. I was really curious as to what exactly it was that he thought they were similar to.
24. Were you surprised that Raffe came back for Penryn? What was he talking about, "This is no accident. This sort of ending..."?
I just assumed Raffe was following her all along. In fact, I kept waiting for him to show up when she was being attacked. I'm not sure what that statement was all about. There obviously is a big something that we don't know about Raffe. He has to be something different thatn the other angels
25. Would you have gone back to camp if you were Penryn or kept going to find your sister?
I would have kept going. It was too perfect of an opportunity to leave
26. What do you make of Penryn's dream? Kind of a stange blur of the camp and something more like a nightmare. Sometimes dreams hold significance. Do you think that is the case here or do you think it's just a result of the camp and seeing those evil little creatures?
Hmmm....I didn't think about the evil little creatures. I wondered if the dreams meant something more, but never thought about those little guys.
27. What was the couple talking about? The one with the dead little girls? "We fed him little girls!" What the heck is that all about?????
So it's official, this book has all sorts of creatures that I have no idea what they are. At first I thought they had a child who'd gone crazy, but then it started to sound like an actual creature of some kind
28. Anyone else wondering just how many bad eggs Penryn's mom has????
I thought that also. All I could come up with was, maybe there are a lot of rotten eggs because of the power being out
29. Just out of curiosity does anyone feel a 'love' connection happening between Penryn and Raffe? I don't and was curious if it was only me?
I do. For whatever reason they are starting to trust each other and have never had that before.
30. Interesting that Angels are forbidden from marrying "the daughters of men" because they make in effect monsters/abominations. Could the creatures be Nephilim? Raffe says they fed on humans....
I suppose so, but most books I have read about nephilim they are giants.
31. Sounds like Obi and his gang are going to the city. Think they'll pop up again?
I think they will somehow end up helping each other in the end
32. Why do you think Raffe has Penryn dressing up like she's going to a party and a sleezy one at that? I'm confused. Anyone else?
I am also, but he made it sound like they took prostitutes. Maybe they are trying to make nephilim
Questions for chapters 27 - 3433. I don't know about anyone else but Penryn's mom makes me both shake my head and chuckle. She's a survivor, yet seemingly totally out of her mind. I wish we knew more about her condition. How long ago did she go a little looney and what is the diagnosis? It's really quite sad.
I remember the book saying that she is Schizophrenic, and that goes a long with the symptoms that have been described throughout the book. It is quite sad to see someone have these episodes. I have saw a few during my college days because I am a psych minor and we had to do case studies for abnormal psych.
34. Why do you think the guard at the gate made Penryn turn around? Was he just enjoying the view or was there another reason?
I think he was checking her out to make sure she qualified and maybe he was enjoying the view. It might be because she was in a car and it sounded like not that many of the people who entered the gate were driving in.
35. Thoughts on the club? Which of the angels described did would you least like to meet?
The politician for sure. He sounds like he is evil, cruel, and devious.
36. With comments like "Because you have the look they're looking for...Beautiful" and "But the fire can be tempting." I wasn't really thinking any sparks, but them there was the kiss described as "He kisses me with the desperation of a dying man who believes the magic of eternal life is in this kiss."
My first thought was maybe he was imagining someone else, but do you think Raffe has some feelings for Penryn? And what about Penryn instigating the kiss? I really didn't feel she liked him that way. Thoughts?
I have been seeing tiny sparks throughout the book, but I am thinking that nothing is going to come of it because of the nephilum and the the angels becoming fallen when they hook up with human women.
37. I was expecting Penryn to seduce the Albino to the bathroom, did you have a clue how she was going to do it?
I don't know if I thought she was going to seduce him. I thought she was just going to start talking with him until Raffe got there.
38. What do you make of Dee Dum being there?
It seems like he is doing his spying thing for the resistance. Who could blame him, it sounds like most of the angels there are evil.
39. So we now know Raffe's real name Raphael. I looked him up. Ironically according to wikipedia Raphael is an archangel of Judaism and Christianity, who in the Judeo-Christian tradition performs all manners of healing.
Interesting, I wonder if he is mentioned in the Bible. Otherwise, I don't give much stock to that information.
40. So it sounds like the Creepy creatures aren't Nephilim.
It sounds like they aren't sure. I am wondering if Raphael just doesn't want Penryn to know what they are.
41. Would you trust Josiah or Laylah?
Maybe if I was Raphael and knew them really well.
42. What do you make of Raffe's lack of belief in God?
I thought it was interesting. Obviously angels can fall from grace we see that with Lucifer, but I find the fact that there is an agnostic angel kind of unrealistic, but that doesn't make me not enjoy this book any less.
43. Would you trust Dee Dum to help find your sister?
No, but I am suspicious of Obi and his band of followers. I think they have a hidden agenda.
Laura, I looked at the information on Raphael again and it appears his name is not mentioned in the bible but: "The name of the angel Raphael appears only in the Deuterocanonical Book of Tobit. The Book of Tobit is considered canonical by Roman Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox Christians. Raphael first appears disguised in human form as the travelling companion of Tobit's son, Tobiah (Greek: Τωβίας/Tobias), calling himself "Azarias the son of the great Ananias"." (Again from wikipedia)
I have never heard of the Book of Tobit before.
I must say this book has ended with more questions than answers! :( With that said, my questions reflect this.Questions for Chapters 35- End
44.) So if all those children aren't Nephilim (which their description leads me to say they aren't) what are they and what is their purpose? Who made them that way?
45.) I found it interesting that Penryn remembered Raffe saying about "if you call it's name it could awaken" I wonder if she knew the names of all those children if they really would wake up?
46.) All those scorpion angels? What the heck are those for and where did they come from? This came directly from left field!
47.) Why didn't Raffe try to explain that Penryn isn't technically his Daughter of Man? (at least not yet)
48.) Was taking Raffe's wings a statement of overthrowing him?
49.) Looks like Laylah sold him down the river on the whole wing operation thing.
49.) We still don't know what Raffe did for everyone to be so pissed off towards him and want him dead. *sigh*
50.) I don't understand why Uriel was being so hypocritical about Penryn and Raffe when he is in a place full of Daughters of Men and angels. I don't believe he was in the aerie with all those women just to hang out!
51.) I still never caught on to why the angels were wiping out humans. Did I miss something or is this something else not explained?
52.) "I never thought about it before, but I'm proud to be human. We're ever so flawed. We're frail, confused, violent, and we struggle with so amny issues. But all in all, I'm proud to be a Daughter of Man." You got it girl! :)
53.) What are your final thoughts on this book? What star rating are you thinking about giving it?
46.) All those scorpion angels? What the heck are those for and where did they come from? This came directly from left field!I think these were the Nephilim
48.) Was taking Raffe's wings a statement of overthrowing him?
I think this was a slap in the face. I mean he was a watcher and he punished other watchers, so to take away his angel wings and give him "demon"/bat wings would have made him feel really low/disgusted. This also connects with your questions #50
47.) Why didn't Raffe try to explain that Penryn isn't technically his Daughter of Man? (at least not yet)Maybe because Raffe has "fallen" for this human girl and he cares for her, he technically Has Fallen. That's why Uriel was mocking Raffe.
Was it brought up that Penryn's mom is probably considered having schizophrenia, but the reality of it is she's probably been talking/listening to demons for years. I'm still trying to figure out what the broken eggs represent.
I really liked the book (4 stars) and HATE I have to wait for the next one in the series.
What does everyone feel about there being about 5 books in this series?
Questions for Chapters 35- End44.) So if all those children aren't Nephilim (which their description leads me to say they aren't) what are they and what is their purpose? Who made them that way?
They aren't Nephilim, they're kids altered to eat humans. Why? To attack and get rid of them. They're own little creepy secret army.
45.) I found it interesting that Penryn remembered Raffe saying about "if you call it's name it could awaken" I wonder if she knew the names of all those children if they really would wake up?
That is the way they made to sound.
46.) All those scorpion angels? What the heck are those for and where did they come from? This came directly from left field!
I tend to agree with Kellyflower I think they're Nephilim, but not 100% certain. They do appear to eat humans, but would they need to be test tube raised? Notice these creatures sound like what Penryn dreamed. Is that a coincidence?
47.) Why didn't Raffe try to explain that Penryn isn't technically his Daughter of Man? (at least not yet)
Quite frankly he was so overcome with grief I don't think he cared.
48.) Was taking Raffe's wings a statement of overthrowing him?
Just a whacked out form of punishment meant to make him feel even lower than he already does.
49.) Looks like Laylah sold him down the river on the whole wing operation thing.
Yeah
49.) We still don't know what Raffe did for everyone to be so pissed off towards him and want him dead. *sigh*
He didn't join their club from the sounds of it, but there may be more especially where Laylah is concerned. Maybe he turned her advances down?
50.) I don't understand why Uriel was being so hypocritical about Penryn and Raffe when he is in a place full of Daughters of Men and angels. I don't believe he was in the aerie with all those women just to hang out!
Of course he wasn't but Raffe was a goody two shoes and Uriel wanted him to come over to the darkside where they had lots of things they shouldn't.
51.) I still never caught on to why the angels were wiping out humans. Did I miss something or is this something else not explained?
Apparently God decreed it, but no one knows exactly why except for the Messenger who got shot.
52.) "I never thought about it before, but I'm proud to be human. We're ever so flawed. We're frail, confused, violent, and we struggle with so many issues. But all in all, I'm proud to be a Daughter of Man." You got it girl! :)
53.) What are your final thoughts on this book? What star rating are you thinking about giving it?
Not sure of rating. There are so many things I liked, but there were some odd and bizarre things mixed in that I'm unsure. Probably not higher than a 4, but not lower than a 3.
I just finished the book. I don't have time to answer questions now, but I will try to come back and answer later. Up until the last day of reading, I would have rated the book 4 stars. Now I am thinking 3 stars. I don't really know if I liked the ending. I agree with Lisarenee that there were some odd and bizarre things at the end. I probably won't read the next book.
Kim L wrote: "I just finished the book. I don't have time to answer questions now, but I will try to come back and answer later. Up until the last day of reading, I would have rated the book 4 stars. Now I am..."I agree, Kim L. I was actually ready to give this book 5 stars until the last 1/4. I liked the imagination, oringinality, and writing style, but the ending was awful compared to the rest of the book. I ended up giving it three stars.
Questions for chapters 27 - end33. I don't know about anyone else but Penryn's mom makes me both shake my head and chuckle. She's a survivor, yet seemingly totally out of her mind. I wish we knew more about her condition. How long ago did she go a little looney and what is the diagnosis? It's really quite sad.
I was waiting for more information on that too, but I just assumed it was probably something like schizophrenia.
34. Why do you think the guard at the gate made Penryn turn around? Was he just enjoying the view or was there another reason?
Making an assessment. I mean, if your an angel I assume you still appreciate a pretty girl...so makgin sure she met the mark I think.
35. Thoughts on the club? Which of the angels described did would you least like to meet?
I am kind of intrigued with the "politician", I wanted to know more about him.
36. With comments like "Because you have the look they're looking for...Beautiful" and "But the fire can be tempting." I wasn't really thinking any sparks, but them there was the kiss described as "He kisses me with the desperation of a dying man who believes the magic of eternal life is in this kiss."
My first thought was maybe he was imagining someone else, but do you think Raffe has some feelings for Penryn? And what about Penryn instigating the kiss? I really didn't feel she liked him that way. Thoughts?
I haven't bought this whole Penryn/Raffe thing from the beginning, it hasn't felt genuine to me at all.
37. I was expecting Penryn to seduce the Albino to the bathroom, did you have a clue how she was going to do it?
I was expecting seduction too. It was pretty funny though.
38. What do you make of Dee Dum being there?
I was surprised but looking back it makes sense that he was there.
39. So we now know Raffe's real name Raphael. I looked him up. Ironically according to wikipedia Raphael is an archangel of Judaism and Christianity, who in the Judeo-Christian tradition performs all manners of healing.
I have to admit, I kind of expected that. The nickname kind of gave it away lol.
40. So it sounds like the Creepy creatures aren't Nephilim.
Disappointing. I was hoping they would be.
41. Would you trust Josiah or Laylah?
Josiah maybe but Laylah definitely not.
42. What do you make of Raffe's lack of belief in God?
I thought it was an interesting take, I thought it made sense actually.
43. Would you trust Dee Dum to help find your sister?
I think so. He has no reason to lie.
44.) So if all those children aren't Nephilim (which their description leads me to say they aren't) what are they and what is their purpose? Who made them that way?
I'd have to say it was the angels, but I don't know for what. That was disappointing for me that their purpose wasn't explained.
45.) I found it interesting that Penryn remembered Raffe saying about "if you call it's name it could awaken" I wonder if she knew the names of all those children if they really would wake up?
I am not sure about that, but I wouldn't want to find out either lol.
46.) All those scorpion angels? What the heck are those for and where did they come from? This came directly from left field!
Left field and I have to say it wasn't a good left field moment either.
47.) Why didn't Raffe try to explain that Penryn isn't technically his Daughter of Man? (at least not yet)
I think he thought there was no point, they wouldn't believe him anyway.
48.) Was taking Raffe's wings a statement of overthrowing him?
I think it was. make him look the part of a fallen angel and maybe his followers will lose faith in him.
49.) Looks like Laylah sold him down the river on the whole wing operation thing.
Not surprising, I thought she was shady.
49.) We still don't know what Raffe did for everyone to be so pissed off towards him and want him dead. *sigh*
Chalk up another one for disappointing.
50.) I don't understand why Uriel was being so hypocritical about Penryn and Raffe when he is in a place full of Daughters of Men and angels. I don't believe he was in the aerie with all those women just to hang out!
Aren't politics always about being a hypocrite lol
51.) I still never caught on to why the angels were wiping out humans. Did I miss something or is this something else not explained?
Reading between the lines I'd say that Gabriel heard a message from God that said do this, and so everyone did that.
52.) "I never thought about it before, but I'm proud to be human. We're ever so flawed. We're frail, confused, violent, and we struggle with so amny issues. But all in all, I'm proud to be a Daughter of Man." You got it girl! :)
That was a good moment, I liked it.
53.) What are your final thoughts on this book? What star rating are you thinking about giving it?
Originally I was going with a 3 or 4, but the ending of the book was terrible. And when you add in that they seemed to be trying for a romantic angle that just failed miserably...with an ending that I almost didn't want to read lest it mar the rest of it. I am going to settle on a 2 star rating I think. Ultimately I just didn't like it that much in the end and the ending didn't made me want to find out what happens next either.
Questions for Chapters 35- End44.) So if all those children aren't Nephilim (which their description leads me to say they aren't) what are they and what is their purpose? Who made them that way?
It sounds to me like they are doing experiments and that maybe it might all have to do with the angel politics and possibly getting rid of the human race. I don't think they are Nephilim either.
45.) I found it interesting that Penryn remembered Raffe saying about "if you call it's name it could awaken" I wonder if she knew the names of all those children if they really would wake up?
I bet they would it sounds like they weren't really dead but I think waking them up would be a bad thing.
46.) All those scorpion angels? What the heck are those for and where did they come from? This came directly from left field!
Yeah, I am not sure that I understand exactly what those were all about. It seems like the author is getting away with herself a bit and becoming a bit to bizarre.
47.) Why didn't Raffe try to explain that Penryn isn't technically his Daughter of Man? (at least not yet)
Maybe because he was too stricken by grief and maybe even though he hasn't been with her in that way, he still feels like she is.
48.) Was taking Raffe's wings a statement of overthrowing him?
Sounded like it to me. It seems like most of the angels are a bit afraid of him or hate him.
49.) Looks like Laylah sold him down the river on the whole wing operation thing.
Yep. I figured she would.
49.) We still don't know what Raffe did for everyone to be so pissed off towards him and want him dead. *sigh*
I am irritated by the whole angel thing not being explained a bit better.
50.) I don't understand why Uriel was being so hypocritical about Penryn and Raffe when he is in a place full of Daughters of Men and angels. I don't believe he was in the aerie with all those women just to hang out!
I don't know that he was being hypocritical. I think that he was pointing out that Raffe is a hypocrite as a way to get back at him.
51.) I still never caught on to why the angels were wiping out humans. Did I miss something or is this something else not explained?
It was never explained.
52.) "I never thought about it before, but I'm proud to be human. We're ever so flawed. We're frail, confused, violent, and we struggle with so amny issues. But all in all, I'm proud to be a Daughter of Man." You got it girl! :)
53.) What are your final thoughts on this book? What star rating are you thinking about giving it?
I think 3 stars. The ending sucked but I am not ready to throw in the towel yet. If the second book is too bizarre or ends up not being any better, then I will throw in the towel.
I agree, Laura. I will give the second book a chance. I still can't believe that a new creature, the scorpion angels, were thrown in so close to the end of the book. Like really? At least we had a heads up about some kind of cannibals, so it wasn't so much of a shock when they were revealed as being the children and a creation of the angels. Why did Ee have to throw in yet another creature? Was finding the children down there not enough? Lol.
Yeah, what I find most hilarious is that most of the review don't say anything about the crazy ending and most people gave it 5 stars.
Rachel wrote: "I agree, Laura. I will give the second book a chance. I still can't believe that a new creature, the scorpion angels, were thrown in so close to the end of the book. Like really? At least we had a ..."Her website says that there will probably be 5 books in this series. Maybe the next book will be all about the new creatures.
Did anyone notice the new creatures sounded an awful lot like what she dreamed about so in a way perhaps we were warned?
Laura wrote: "Yeah, what I find most hilarious is that most of the review don't say anything about the crazy ending and most people gave it 5 stars."I noticed that too...I kept thinking, did anyone else even read the end lol. Maybe other people aren't as bothered by a weird, nonsensical ending.
I have no idea what those children were supposed to be. Are they zombies with a bit more brain? We really didn't get a good glimpse at them and why did the need to be called by name to 'wake up'?Just out of curiosity, what would you have excluded from the ending? Is there anything you liked?
I would have excluded the scorpion things. I think the creepy kids were enough. At least those seemed to be mentioned earlier in the book. I know she had a dream about the scorpion things but the fact that her dream came true didn't seem to flow with the book either. I don't know it just seemed off.
I would have excluded the scorion angel thing too...it just seemed to pop in out of nowhere, for absolutely no reason. We could have gotten to that in another book, it wasn't necessary here.And it could have still been good in this book, if it was explained...at all. Or if the cannibal kids were explained...at all. Or if how the two are connected was explained...at all. That was my biggest problem is she went for a cliffhanger just for the sake of it and didn't bother to explain anything even a tiny bit.
Stefani wrote: "I would have excluded the scorion angel thing too...it just seemed to pop in out of nowhere, for absolutely no reason. We could have gotten to that in another book, it wasn't necessary here.And ..."
Ditto. Agreed. Don't need to add anything to that!
Rachel wrote: "Stefani wrote: "I would have excluded the scorion angel thing too...it just seemed to pop in out of nowhere, for absolutely no reason. We could have gotten to that in another book, it wasn't neces..."Ditto here, too!
I think the scorpions needed to be explained a bit more, but I think they have potential. The kid thing seemed more off to me. It seemed like some magic was involved and I was just so confused as to what exactly was done to give them razor teeth and make them crave human flesh. We know some surgery of some sort took place, but what did that entail? Plus, was the process completed on Penryn's sister? It left me wondering what the heck happened? Couldn't they have included that explanation in one of the villain's dialogues before they were offed? lol Also, wasn't the angel who got Raffe's wings the one who attacked him at the beginning of the book? If so was it mentioned he had bat wings? I'm assuming they switched his and Raffe's wings at the end. I may have to read those sections again.
I don't think he had bat wings. I think it did mention his wings though, now I am going to have to go back and look too.
Lisarenee wrote: "I think the scorpions needed to be explained a bit more, but I think they have potential. The kid thing seemed more off to me. It seemed like some magic was involved and I was just so confused as t..."I agree with all that, none of it was bad by itself. If it had been explained a bit then it has the potential to be good. But just to have it thrown in made it seem weird and off kilter.
I think they mentioned an angel that attacked him having black wings or something like that...but I am not sure if it was the same angel.
My Kindle is charging and I couldn't check. I ran down the battery, but I'll be checking to try to figure out who is who and if there was any mention of the strange wings.
pg 1386 on the nook book describes the wings they put on Raffe" The shape of the wings are not shaped like a bird's wings. It's a giant bat-wing shape"
They are Beliel's wings - Beliel had Raffe's wings sewn into his own back.
Beliel wanted his wings because "No one below has feathers. I'll be the envy of hell."
I also found on page 962 (nook book)where Josiah is speaking to Raffe and Raffe clearly states that the things running around in the woods are not nephilimRaffe blinks, taking a moment to absorb what Josiah said. "Those aren't Nephilim. They don't look anything like Nephilim."
That whole conversation is interesting.
Raffe calls them "low-demons"
Also the scorpion things were describes as "looking a little like Angels" and "from the front the look human".
I think there maybe two evils at work here.
The fallen angels & then Demons.
Interesting thought Kellyflower. I think Raffe thought they were "low-demons" before we knew their association to the missing children. Unless I'm missing something, the children are those creatures that were eating people. So are you thinking they're possessed?
Yes, I believe the children were the ones eating people. Possession could be a possibility. Demon brains, musculature, etc. inside the kiddos??
I think Stefani is on to something with the whole demon thing though. Aren't the fallen angels demons of hell if you really think about it. Maybe that is why the name of the book is Angelfall. On the other hand, I think that Lisarenee and Rachel are on the right track with the kids. I think the conversation of the two adults near the hanging kids in the woods gave us a hint about that. Not to mention they tear human flesh and and eat it but they don't eat the Angel flesh.
Subscribed to Susan Ee's newsletter and she said the following:"Angelfall's journey through publishing started off very personal. I was in a seven year relationship that meant a lot to me. When it ended, it almost broke me. The first draft of Angelfall was written during the breakup.
Angelfall started with the loss of a relationship that was important to me and I hoped that it would result in forging new relationships with readers that would in some way, ease that loss. A reader's connection with a story is in many ways, a connection with the author and I felt a strong need to find those readers.
I didn't know if there was even one person out there who would enjoy my book but I needed to try. I couldn't wait the year or two it would take for it to go through the traditional publishing route, nor could I stomach the thought that the only readers during that time would be people who read the story for the purpose of weighing and measuring it for its commercial value. So I published it myself without ever reaching out to agents or publishers. It was my message in a bottle attempt to connect.
I've said this next part before but it's worth saying again.
When the book reached 10 ratings, I was so excited! I walked around in a happy daze, thinking about the people who voluntarily spent hours of their lives sharing my dream of Penryn & Raffe. They enjoyed it! How amazing is that? I had found my tribe.
When it reached 100 ratings, I was flabbergasted.
Well…you can imagine how I feel today. There are now over 450 reviews on Amazon and over 4,000 ratings on Goodreads. The readership support has been phenomenal.
Words like "stunned", "honored", "grateful" and "moved" come to mind. But really, there are no words to describe how I feel. The readers have given me the gift of a lifetime."
Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
I think it's kind of inspirational.
FYI, There is a Q&A group for Susan Ee on Goodreads.Join us on Tuesday, May 28th for a special discussion with author Susan Ee! Susan will be discussing her debut novel, Angelfall, which is the first in the Penryn & the End of Days trilogy and launching in the UK and Australia.
Link to Q&A:
http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1...
Penryn and the End of Days is hands down my favourite YA series so far.(view spoiler)
It's been a while since I read this one, I think I'm going to do a re-read when the 3rd book comes out next year, I think in May.
Thanks for discussing Audrey Jane :)I just finished last night, I was reading through the comments in this thread and it looks like a lot of mixed thoughts on this book especially the ending, which I liked.
(view spoiler)
I also hadn't realized that book 3 isn't out yet...hhmmm, might have to pace myself!
Snowtulip wrote: "Thanks for discussing Audrey Jane :)I just finished last night, I was reading through the comments in this thread and it looks like a lot of mixed thoughts on this book especially the ending, which I liked.
(view spoiler) ."
I loved the ending,(view spoiler)
Snowtulip wrote: "I also hadn't realized that book 3 isn't out yet...hhmmm, might have to pace myself!"Book 3 is the last one in the series, it's a trilogy. I just learned that a few weeks ago. I'm looking forward to the last installment, curious how it will end.
Audrey Jane wrote: "Snowtulip wrote: "Thanks for discussing Audrey Jane :)I just finished last night, I was reading through the comments in this thread and it looks like a lot of mixed thoughts on this book especial..."
Agree (view spoiler)
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
The Hunger Games (other topics)Angelfall (other topics)
19. Were you surprised Penryn won? We do know she had some pretty darn good training, but still...
20. Did you think Obi had any intention of letting her and Raffe go?
21. What do you make of Dee & Dum? Did they seem a little off to you? Do you think they're fully human? I got a weird vibe from them.
22. Do you think Penryn should have agreed to throw the fight? What did you make of the whole situation?
23. What do you make of the "freaky, evil demons"?
24. Were you surprised that Raffe came back for Penryn? What was he talking about, "This is no accident. This sort of ending..."?
25. Would you have gone back to camp if you were Penryn or kept going to find your sister?
26. What do you make of Penryn's dream? Kind of a stange blur of the camp and something more like a nightmare. Sometimes dreams hold significance. Do you think that is the case here or do you think it's just a result of the camp and seeing those evil little creatures?
27. What was the couple talking about? The one with the dead little girls? "We fed him little girls!" What the heck is that all about?????
28. Anyone else wondering just how many bad eggs Penryn's mom has????
29. Just out of curiosity does anyone feel a 'love' connection happening between Penryn and Raffe? I don't and was curious if it was only me?
30. Interesting that Angels are forbidden from marrying "the daughters of men" because they make in effect monsters/abominations. Could the creatures be Nephilim? Raffe says they fed on humans....
31. Sounds like Obi and his gang are going to the city. Think they'll pop up again?
32. Why do you think Raffe has Penryn dressing up like she's going to a party and a sleezy one at that? I'm confused. Anyone else?