The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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2012/13 Group Reads - Archives
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Nominations For May-June 2012
Silver, that is a great idea to pick something from the earlier decades. I was thinking we could read maybe something by Sir Walter Scott, e.g. Rob Roy, Ivanhoe, The Heart of Midlothian. That should fit well into the proposed timeframe. Maybe I will have some more ideas, but this was the first that came to my mind, esp. as most other books seem to be just a little later.
Hedi wrote: "Silver, that is a great idea to pick something from the earlier decades. I was thinking we could read maybe something by Sir Walter Scott, e.g. Rob Roy, Ivanhoe, The Heart of Midlothian. That shoul..."I myself would love the opperunity to read something by Sir Walter Scott, I have been wanting to by have yet to get around to doing so.
I am going to nominate The Red and the Black by StendhalI have been wanting to read this book for a while now.
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Silver wrote: "I am going to nominate The Red and the Black by StendhalI have been wanting to read this book for a while now."
I am in the same boat on this one, Silver. I'll second that nomination, although I will be hard pressed when it comes time to vote if someone nominates Sir Walter Scott's Waverley , which sits on my Kindle, also begging to be read. The first in Scott's tales of the Scottish Highlands, it tells of the Jacobite rising of 1745.
Good idea Silver. And will those who nominate please join the discussion too! It is unfair IMO to nominate a book and then leave others, who may not be as keen on it, to discuss it.If I remember rightly Waverley is a long novel Lily and I believe others were calling for a shorter one this time? The Red and the Black is shorter so I will vote for that.
Lily wrote: "Silver wrote: "I am going to nominate The Red and the Black by StendhalI have been wanting to read this book for a while now."
I am in the same boat on this one, Si..."
I can get behind Waverly. Scottish Highlands are high on my list of interests.
MadgeUK wrote: "If I remember rightly Waverley is a long novel Lily and I believe others were calling for a shorter one this time? The Red and the Black is shorter so I will vote for that. ..."Madge -- I can't tell exactly, but neither is really what I call "shorter" (my number for that is about 300 pages). These two seem to come in around 500 pages, with considerable variation in the editions which I checked just now -- type size as well as introductory material is probably influencing the page count. I don't think either is of the 800 page type.
I would like to support Hedi's idea about Sir Walter Scott. I have read most of his novels in my native language (Russian) when I was a teenager, but I have never read them in English, and the actual books have been on my bookshelf FOREVER. But I would also like to reread the Red and the Black by Stendal.
James Fenimore Cooper's The Last of the Mohicans. And bummer about the dates - I was hoping to nominate Dumas' The Three Muskateers, and missed it by 6 years - maybe next time.
Also like Deborah's idea of the Mysteries of Udolpho selection. And Silver's the Red and the Black. Either would be fine by me.
MadgeUK wrote: "And will those who nominate please join the discussion too! It is unfair IMO to nominate a book and then leave others, who may not be as keen on it, to discuss it."Totally agree. It's very annoying to see people vote for a book, and then you never see them on the discussions. Only vote if you really are going to join the discussion. Obviously things come up - I had that happen to me with Uncle Silas. But when 90% of the people who vote don't show up, then it's not merely, something came up.
I was going to nominate 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame', but noticed you read it before I joined. My nomination now is:Persuasion by Jane Austen, published in 1818.
ENOUGH WITH THE PROSE ALREADY!!!Byron's Don Juan -- a novel length poem, which was unfinished at the time of Byron's death Enough with the prose already. :-)
Keats' Poetry written between 10/31 1818 -10/30/1819 Or some of it: This includes the great odes (Nightingale, Grecian Urn, Autumn, Melancholy), Lamia, La Belle Dame Sans Merci,Eve of St. Agnes. This is is some of the finest poetry ever written in any language. Keats was 23. He died at 25.
Wordsworth's Lyrical Ballads, 1802 edition (he published three, each with new material, 1798, 1800 and 1802.)
_____
Carlyle's Sartor Resartus -- 1833-34 -- One of the sources of Moby-Dick -- although it has nothing to do with whales -- it's a purported Philosophy of Clothes by a German philosopher -- and a lot of Melville's irony can be found here.
Bill wrote: "Byron's Don Juan -- a novel length poem, which was unfinished at the time of Byron's death Enough with the prose already. :-)Keats' Poetry written between 10/31 1818 -10/30/1819 This includes the..."
There's never enough prose. ;) (Sorry, not a big poetry fan.)
Deborah wrote: "The Mysteries of Udolpho by Ann Radcliffe"I agree! This has been waiting on my shelf for a while.
Lynnm wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "And will those who nominate please join the discussion too! It is unfair IMO to nominate a book and then leave others, who may not be as keen on it, to discuss it."Totally agre..."
Sometimes life intervenes
Victoria (vikz) wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "And will those who nominate please join the discussion too! It is unfair IMO to nominate a book and then leave others, who may not be as keen on it, to discuss it."..."
And with some books, there's nothing to say
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Keats' Poetry written between 10/31 1818 -10/30/1819 Th..."
Me either. I took a literature survey class while in CA for fun. All the teacher did was poetry and I'm not a big poetry fan. I ended up dropping the class because of that among other things.
Bill wrote: "ENOUGH WITH THE PROSE ALREADY!!!Byron's Don Juan -- a novel length poem, which was unfinished at the time of Byron's death Enough with the prose already. :-)
Keats' Poetry written between 10/31 ..."
Don Juan is on my short list. You might find Wordsworth 1802 to be disappointing. I know 1798 was, to me.
Victoria (vikz) wrote: "And with some books, there's nothing to say "Well, let's hope we pick a book where we have something to say. ;)
Laurele,I'm all for Don Juan. It's my first choice. I haven't read Wordsworth in 50 years -- but I thought the last edition of lyrical ballads would be a nice contained choice.
The Keats is I think the best of the lot, and in particular I wanted to revisit Lamia and the Eve of St. Agnes -- and I've never read the Hyperion fragments. But Don Juan has the advantage of being a narrative -- and funny. And I'm familiar with a lot of the Keats.
Deborah wrote: "Me either. I took a literature survey class while in CA for fun. All the teacher did was poetry and I'm not a big poetry fan. I ended up dropping the class because of that among other things. "My first class in grad school was Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales. Not knowing that the professor was behind me, I say to a fellow student before class began, poetry really doesn't do anything for me, although Chaucer is "okay." Of course, the professor didn't take my statement very well, and I was on her poop list the rest of the semester. Funny now. Not so funny then.
Bill wrote: "I'm all for Don Juan. It's my first choice. "
It's out of my comfort zone and therefore I would be very interested in reading it! :-)
If we do select poetry, then I move that there is a prose selection as well at the same time.We've had two heavy novels in a row: Mill on the Floss and now Wings on the Dove. Then, if selected, poetry is heavy as well.
Really, I hate to sound difficult, but for some of us, poetry is painful. I enjoy participating in this group, but Wings on the Dove was too much after Mill on the Floss, so I didn't join in. And if poetry is selected, I won't participate again.
So, again, if poetry is going to be on the list, I think we should have two selections for the next reading: one poetry and one novel.
Great Cleo! I'm thrilled to see some enthusiasm for Don Juan. In general people Byron's Don Juan is NOT difficult to understand and is zippier than The Wings of a Dove .
Lynnm, I'm sorry you don't like poetry (which I don't actually understand -- it's rather like someone saying she doesn't like "prose" -- poetry represents such enormous quantity and variety of literary writing.)
Prose is relatively new-fangled, not even becoming a big deal until the 19th century. Who are the major writers in English before 1800 -- Chaucer, Spenser, Donne, Shakespeare, Milton, Dryden, Pope -- we can throw in Fielding and Smollett if you insist and Restoration dramatists.
But for the most part -- English literature IS English poetry. Deborah, what else could a survey class cover? I'd understand the disappoint if it were a survey course of the 19th century but of all English literature -- or of all literature. Poetry is most of it, whether you begin with Homer or Beowulf or Homer.
It's only in the 19th century that we see poetry and prose becoming equal but poetry holds it own nicely -- Blake, Wordsworth, Coleridge, Keats, Shelley, Byron, Browning, Tennyson and that does even include Scott, Rosetti or a host of others.
And I didn't read "The Mill on the Floss" and waited patiently until we got "The Wings of the Dove." I won't being reading Ann Radclyffe or James Fennimore Cooper or Northanger Abbey. (Cooper is the worst canonical writer I ever read -- I finished The Deerslayer and have regretted it since.)
I'm with Cleo -- read books that take you out of your comfort zone.
Lynnm wrote: "If we do select poetry, then I move that there is a prose selection as well at the same time.We've had two heavy novels in a row: Mill on the Floss and now Wings on the Dove. Then, if selected,..."
I agree we should have a lighter read.
Bill wrote: "Great Cleo! I'm thrilled to see some enthusiasm for Don Juan. In general people Byron's Don Juan is NOT difficult to understand and is zippier than The Wings of a Dove .
Lynnm, I'm sorry yo..."
I'm not arguing with your right to like poetry. :-) It's just not my cup of tea. I like prose. Different strokes for different folks. You don't like Cooper, and while not a favorite of mine, I think he's important to American literature. But I won't question your literary knowledge and commitment if you don't like him. I read and have read many books that are out of my comfort zone. But I was forced to read enough poetry in undergrad and grad school, that now in my free time, I'm not going back there.
I'm just asking that if poetry is selected, if we could have two reads rather than just the one. If the answer is no, that's fine. I'll just have to wait it out, or find another group in the meantime.
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In general people Byron's Don Juan is NOT difficult to understand and is zippier than The Wings of a Dove .
Ly..."
I agree with Lynnm here. There was plenty of things that could have been covered in the survey course besides poetry, poetry and more poetry. We did not read Austin, Wollesencraft, Mary Shelley, or any other Prose. If it was a prose topic, the instructor had us watch the movie!
I know people who love poetry and the complexity it involves. I'm just NOT one of those people. I've read some Keats, Shelley, Yeats, Wordsworth, Burns, and the list goes on. None of it was something that I couldn't wait to get my hands on. All of it was a pain in the butt to me. I tried it, and it's just not my thing.
I chose not to read Mill on the Floss because I had already read it, knew it was heavy and depressing and was dealing with some depressing personal issues. If poetry is selected, I too won't be participating. I'm not a James fan either, but chose to try him again because we decided to read him. Not enjoying it at all but slogging thru it anyway.
As Lynnm says - Different things for different people. That's what makes the world go round and helps bring such wonderful diversity to this group. The more diverse the group; the harder for consensus but the more interesting the discussion. And one great thing about these groups is you can choose to read it and participate or you can choose to skip it. While I'll read the poem of the day, I won't be participating in the book of the month if it's poetry.
Deborah wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "Bill wrote: "Great Cleo! I'm thrilled to see some enthusiasm for Don Juan. In general people Byron's Don Juan is NOT difficult to understand and is zippier than The Wings of a D..."
I agree with everything that Deborah said. Ditto, ditto, ditto!
I'd like to recommend
If you haven't read this influential book yet, you really should. I'm sure it will spark some interesting discussion.
I think having a separate, ongoing poetry thread is a great idea, Lynnm. And we already have a leader in Bill. I'm ready to give the Don a go.
Me too -- but I'd prefer it as the main group read. I can't do Don Juan and another book. If the ongoing book is The Red and the Black I might like to participate, or if Sartor Resartus, definitely.I don't exclude the possibility entirely though -- if we have five people besides me willing to read and post.
Deborah, if this were a survey course of English literature, how much time could reasonably be spent in the 19th or late 18th century? What prose did you want to see read from the early English writing, the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries that compares to the poetry? That was as influential? You can't teach a survey course without Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton and Keats. Of course, you could include Emma, Middlemarch and David Copperfield. But most of English literature except for the last 200 years is poetry.
Here are some suggestions:"Last of the Mohicans" by Cooper
something by Balzac
anything by Austen
Emily wrote: "Mansfield Park by Jane Austen"Oh, I can second this nomination wholeheartedly. It's one of my favorite Austen books and I would really like to re-read it after so many years. Thanks for nominating it, Emily!
Jamie wrote: "How about Northanger Abbey"Jamie, I wouldn't object to re-reading this one. Really enjoyed it the first time around, decades ago. Thanks!
Lois wrote: "I was going to nominate 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame', but noticed you read it before I joined. My nomination now is:Persuasion by Jane Austen, published in 1818."
Another one I'd like to re-read. Thanks for nominating it, Lois.
Bill wrote: "ENOUGH WITH THE PROSE ALREADY!!!Byron's Don Juan -- a novel length poem, which was unfinished at the time of Byron's death Enough with the prose already. :-)
Keats' Poetry written between 10/31 ..."
We already have a thread for short poems, but not book-length ones. Madge and I have been sitting there all by ourselves lately, but it had been much more active:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...
I'm interested in reading "The Red and the Black", but which translation is the best? And is the "best" translation easily available? I checked Amazon and my local library and became discouraged.
Silver wrote: "I thought it would be a good idea to get ahead of the game on book nominations ..."A friend is interested in joining this group, and I showed her the discussion pages and the poll page. I ordered the polls sequentially, but the the top poll is still December, and WOTD is farther down. Can this be fixed?
Rochelle wrote: "Silver wrote: "I thought it would be a good idea to get ahead of the game on book nominations ..."A friend is interested in joining this group, and I showed her the discussion pages and the poll ..."
I will look into it and see if it can be fixed
Translation does seem to be a problem for this book. Here is a link to a reviewer who dislikes Raffel's Modern Library translation: http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/...
Rochelle wrote: "Silver wrote: "I thought it would be a good idea to get ahead of the game on book nominations ..."A friend is interested in joining this group, and I showed her the discussion pages and the poll ..."
I just looked at the poll, and if you at the dates in which the poll was actually posted than it is correct. On November 15th there was a poll to decide on a short story for December and the WOTD poll was on Nov. 1st so it should be the 2nd poll listed. As in that poll I took the two highest votes, so the first was Mill on the Floss and than WOTD
Silver wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "Silver wrote: "I thought it would be a good idea to get ahead of the game on book nominations ..."A friend is interested in joining this group, and I showed her the discussion ..."
Gotcha. I didn't know they had been voted upon together.
Alternatively, we could read it in French. We'd simply have to go at much slower rate. Perhaps 5 pages a week.
You're so funny. I read somewhere that Roger Gard's translation is good. Amazon has Gard plus ten other translations. Does anyone know which is best?
This was recently discussed in another group. There is no absolute way to know -- partially because people value different things. Do you care most about absolute accuracy or well-written English? Do you want to read it in modern English or in a translation of the day? Typically you choose by reading reviews, reading samples, and seeing what's appealing. You can also check syllabi of university courses, if you can find them -- or talk to a professor who teaches the book in English.But my horse in the race is Don Juan by Lord Byron. It is easy to read. It's a poetic gem. It is a narrative. It needs no translation. I personally believe that the fate of Western Civilization -- and perhaps Eastern as well -- rests on the ability to return poetry to central position in literature. At the very least, reading narrative poetry is known to prevent dental caries and keep off excess weight.
Here's Byron:
I want a hero: an uncommon want,
When every year and month sends forth a new one,
Till, after cloying the gazettes with cant,
The age discovers he is not the true one;
Of such as these I should not care to vaunt,
I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan --
We all have seen him, in the pantomime,
Sent to the devil somewhat ere his time.
Here's The Red and the Black:
La petite ville de Verrières peut passer pour l'une des plus jolies de la Franche-Comté. Ses maisons blanches avec leurs toits pointus de tuiles rouges s'étendent sur la pente d'une colline, dont des touffes de vigoureux châtaigniers marquent les moindres sinuosités. Le Doubs coule à quelques centaines de pieds au-dessous de ses fortifications, bâties jadis par les Espagnols, et maintenant ruinées.
Clearly, Byron is the easier read.
I see the problem with the 2nd choice, but I do know "petite." Maybe 1 sentence per week?
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The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
Persuasion (other topics)The Red and the Black (other topics)
Daisy Miller (other topics)
Eugene Onegin (other topics)
Mansfield Park (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jane Austen (other topics)Walter Scott (other topics)
Stendhal (other topics)
I noticed that as of late we have been reading a lot from the Victorian period, and while I can understand the appeal and it does take up a large segement of the groups timeline I thought it would be fun to try something new.
Please nominate a book that has been published from 1800-1836
*If you are unsure of when a book has been published you should be able to find out by looking the book up on Goodreads and under publication date in parentheses it should say "First Published" and give the books original publication date.
Nominations end on March 11th.