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Arkib III > Studying locally is better than studying abroad?

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message 1: by Lolliepop (last edited Mar 01, 2012 06:16AM) (new)

Lolliepop (snhz) | 246 comments Assalamualaikum..so, as you might guess, this is the motion for my mock debate..just like what i did last year, i need you guys' and girls' helps to support or oppose to this motion. but, i prefer if you support this motion because i completely at loss( i feel brainless?) of why studying locally is better. i mean, besides the cheaper fee, i dont really see the superior qualities of studying locally have over studying abroad..

everytime i do my research, there will always be about how great studying abroad is, i mean yeah, of course it is great, but..yeah..just but.

ok, anyone wanna share your thoughts? pretty pretty please with sprinkles?


message 2: by Azharuddin (new)

Azharuddin Mat Naziz (azhar_din) | 11 comments adakah dibenarkan untuk menulis komentar dalam Bahasa Melayu? :)


message 3: by Syahira (last edited Mar 01, 2012 11:12AM) (new)

Syahira  | 752 comments honestly, the only person who can decide whether you get the best education are yourself - by you studying and remaining on top. In fact, one of my coursemate won the main university award last year and MY faculty was certified hardest in UKM to score. Local universities have their courses individually accredited by other country institutions. Like one of mine is from UK's IBMS.. means I can find work in UK if I want to.

Sometimes the only differences that people see are the money they fork out for it. However, big money doesn't equal a good education. Even now, I usually like to see the big picture in things, like a private joke. For example, the more the IPTs fork out money in advertisement, the more suckier the place is. Or the younger the course is, the messed up your syllabus can be.

But IMHO, the only worthy universities are the Ivy Leagues and Oxford-standard european universities. Mostly because the big money involved which usually means good research, good equipments etc. that is, if science is what you're looking for.


message 4: by Eimad (new)

Eimad | 56 comments both have pro and con.but one thing for sure local have AUKU. :D


message 5: by Khairul Hezry, I hate people but not you. You, I like. (new)

Khairul Hezry | 2357 comments Mod
For most Msians, it's the only time to get out and see the world. So YAY to studying abroad.


message 6: by Eimad (new)

Eimad | 56 comments Khairul H. wrote: "For most Msians, it's the only time to get out and see the world. So YAY to studying abroad."

i second this


message 7: by Juliana Es (new)

Juliana Es (julianaes) | 857 comments Mod
Syahira wrote: "But IMHO, the only worthy universities are the Ivy Leagues and Oxford-standard european universities. "

I don't remember where I read it, but there's an article that negates this, and the argument is interesting.

According to the author, Ivy League universities tend to be more lenient to their students, whereas non-Ivy are stricter in maintaining the quality of their graduates.


message 8: by Juliana Es (new)

Juliana Es (julianaes) | 857 comments Mod
Azharuddin wrote: "adakah dibenarkan untuk menulis komentar dalam Bahasa Melayu? :)"

Dipersilakan. Belasah je.


message 9: by Syahira (new)

Syahira  | 752 comments not sure about you. AUKU doesnt really bar students from politics (in fact, I know a lot of student activist in my time). The whole time I was in the university was hearing lecturers lecture about politics from time to time, both favouring oppositions and governments. I was a faculty student member and was in the middle of it anyway.

The idea is that uni is a neutral ground and students need to hear the sides of all coins. Besides half of the students are legal voters anyway which sometimes defeats the purpose of AUKU.

People like Adam Adli only received attention because it involve big ppl that gets publicized so much that I know a lot of uni were kids pissed off because he gave bad press to them all.

----

Depended on what course you're studying, big universities like Havard and Stamford are what you after if you intend on pursuing certain fields like medicine. Local universities are always restricted in some ways especially in science field. One equipment alone can cost millions dollars. The bad publicity doesnt help too.

If you intend to pursue it, I'd suggest doing a bachelor locally and masters internationally. Its definitely worth your money pursuing tertiary education that way instead of being in student debt/bondage for measly basic degree. (my lecturer's recommendation actually) And they're building a John Hopkins university here. For masters MD degree lak tu.


message 10: by Eimad (new)

Eimad | 56 comments Syahira wrote: "not sure about you. AUKU doesnt really bar students from politics (in fact, I know a lot of student activist in my time). The whole time I was in the university was hearing lecturers lecture about ..."

really?AUKU didnt really apply?i have no idea actually.


message 11: by Afiq (new)

Afiq Asyran (afiqasyran) | 69 comments I've studied 3years as undergraduate student, 2 years as postgraduate student in local university.

Studying in local university especially Diploma and Degree is not much different with secondary school. Most of the student (not all) still plague with 2nd class mentality. Unless you have your own initiative to improve yourself as university student.

Postgraduate, either the learning culture, infrastructure is not conducive or the cost of running the research is too damn high. And not to mention the endless bureaucratic issue.

If you have opportunities to study abroad, just go for it. I myself will only continue my PhD once awarded with 5 years scholarship abroad.


message 12: by Lolliepop (new)

Lolliepop (snhz) | 246 comments very good inputs you guys and girls have here..thanks a lot!very helpful and interesting..saya baru saja selesai exam, hari ni baru berkesempatan untuk buka thread ini.

so, aside from the Ivy Leagues or the Oxford-standard european universities, as Syahira put in, is there any other worthy universities? i thought there are a few in Middle East?

and, do you think studying locally is like being in your own comfort zone?

dan, @Azharuddin, boleh saja komen dalam Bahasa Melayu..lagipun, saya bukanlah bagus sangat dalam BI..XD


message 13: by Lord Nouda (new)

Lord Nouda (nouda) | 54 comments Local = Cheaper tuition costs. How much you get out of it though, actually depends a lot on you making a lot of extra effort to build up your leadership and soft-skills. Uni is not all about grades and getting a 4.0 cgpa (unless you're going to become a socially-awkward scientist holed-up in a lab for the rest of your life), it's about become a well-rounded person. Mastering English, is also a major job requirement. Unfortunately most local uni graduates suck at English despite most courses nowadays being instructed in English. I wonder why they turn out that way? :|

Erm...tbh, that's pretty much the only benefit of local vs overseas that I can think of. Lulz. It's not just the quality of the education, it's also the mentality and culture that you get exposed to while studying overseas. That is what makes it invaluable to study in the West compared to a measly local uni in Bolehland where people never really think outside of the box and their "can do" attitude drags everything else down. Being outside of your comfort zone, and having to "survive" in a harsher situation, will end up benefiting you in the long run since you're forced to develop vital skills in order to survive/excel.


message 14: by ims (last edited Mar 14, 2012 05:23AM) (new)

ims I am lucky to have experienced both greatly. So this is my opinion: Studying locally can be equally rewarding as studying abroad.

Do not blame education ministry for whatever kind of inadequacy of education system. Blame on the student themselves, ie individual.

I dare to say, we have so much resources and opportunities to become better and eventually to the same level of other 1st class countries or Ivy-League colleges. It is the students who is responsible for seizing and make full use of the privileges. I know plenty of International based companies in Malaysia that welcome local interns. Grab such opportunities!

Stop stop stop blaming, Malaysians! And please stop the negative feedbacks about your own bangsa Malaysia. Don't say they are suck, lazy, backwards etc. Must cultivate some spirits in our mind that we can change, and we will help.


message 15: by Lord Nouda (last edited Mar 14, 2012 05:30AM) (new)

Lord Nouda (nouda) | 54 comments I disagree. It's the education system that makes or breaks potential excellent students and, Citizens. In a system where speaking out your mind is "rewarded" with punishment rather than praise, and where creativity and out of the box thinking is ridiculed because they "aren't the right answers" seeks only to stifle the budding minds of students. In our current education system, we aren't taught HOW to think but rather WHAT to think. The first and foremost example of this is the rote-memorization required to pass most if not all exams. They never ask you what you personally think. They ask you, what is the right (mandated) answer.

Sure, if you made the effort you'll easily overcome this roadblock imposed by Education System (and by extension the Government which fears its young population and seeks only to make the majority of them become future "yes-men"). But for most people, this is all they know.


message 16: by Juliana Es (new)

Juliana Es (julianaes) | 857 comments Mod
I tend to agree with Ian, but will continue this later on my desktop (right now my right hand is so tired after the volleyball training).


message 17: by Khairul Hezry, I hate people but not you. You, I like. (new)

Khairul Hezry | 2357 comments Mod
What's there to train? Just jump here, jump there, swat the ball.


message 18: by ims (last edited Mar 19, 2012 07:06AM) (new)

ims Nouda,

Memorization technique is a very useful skill I acquired in local school. Personally I "thank-God" for that, really. Yes, I was taught what to think. But as I ventured into local workforce as well as studying abroad, I learn how to think using what I've already know (from memorization). It is the matter of actively seeking and learning. This has to come from within each individual, not the government. It is all about personal effort.

I agree that speaking our mind is rewarded with punishment rather than praise in Malaysia. But it is important to learn to penetrate these minds with care. Reasoning is an art everybody has to learn. I am learning that too. Therefore, it is important to stop blaming. This got to be our culture - graceful but thoughtful and firm.

The government is nothing without its citizen. It has to start from us.


message 19: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca (beckyilham) | 113 comments I have an American bachelor degree in engineering and now is pursuing a master of art at a local university.

I would say it depends on the field that you want to pursue; as in the wise words of one of my current professors (who had her bachelor and master locally but went slightly oversea for her PhD) - "Seek the expertise, not the institution."

Initially I intended to apply for the same postgraduate program I am doing at a different local university but after hearing that from the professor, and after weeks of mulling it over, I am where I am right now.

My bachelor degree is in petroleum engineering, which is a major that is not offered at every other university. None of the Ivy League universities offer it, even. But Ivy League aside, I went to the best university for the program (in the words of others, I'm just quoting), even though it is a small, secluded, almost-unknown-to-Malaysians; except in the oil and gas industry, in which it is highly regarded.

But I have to confess, I still want a degree from an Ivy League school. Hehe.


message 20: by ims (new)

ims Good luck! Ivy league school ftw lol


message 21: by Juliana Es (last edited Mar 19, 2012 07:48AM) (new)

Juliana Es (julianaes) | 857 comments Mod
Khairul H. wrote: "What's there to train? Just jump here, jump there, swat the ball."

HAHAHA! If it is that easy, why isn't every volleyball player becoming an Olympic athlete?

Sebelum kita salahkan kerajaan, tengoklah pada diri kita dan sekeliling. Siapa yang memilih kerajaan itu?

Comfort zone can be created anywhere - not necessarily within local universities only.

Kalau yg belajar di UK atau US atau di ceruk mana sekalipun tak berusaha sungguh-sungguh, hasilnya boleh sahaja lebih teruk daripada graduan universiti tempatan yang pencapaian akademiknya sekadar cukup makan.


message 22: by Emily Iliani (new)

Emily Iliani (emilyiliani) 1-PROUD home grown!

2-scuse me! universiti tempatan tak semua grad cukup makan, mind you saya terlebih makan. suka bila orang jadi holier than thou.

3-Seriousness, agreed, it also is very much influenced by your field of studies. Contohnya graduan undang-undang harus memilih wilayah pengijazahan yang diiktiraf untuk praktis di Malaysia.

4-ini zaman 2012, nak tahu sapa Koony pun seklik jauh cuma. ilmu itu ada pada ynag mencari. pergi USA bawa balik isteri blonde saja dan slanga paris Hilton pun tak bermanfaat juga.

5-pengalaman adalah anugerah; duduk bawah ketiak mak pun masih boleh membina kendiri yang kuat.

#-kita mencari orang pandai tin kosong atau orang bijak resmi padi?


message 23: by Khairul Hezry, I hate people but not you. You, I like. (new)

Khairul Hezry | 2357 comments Mod
Tin kosong. Senang kontrol. :p


message 24: by Juliana Es (last edited Mar 20, 2012 02:42AM) (new)

Juliana Es (julianaes) | 857 comments Mod
Emily Iliani wrote: "2-scuse me! universiti tempatan tak semua grad cukup makan, mind you saya terlebih makan. "

Komen saya tu tak ditujukan kepada mana-mana individu, jadi tak perlu nak terasa kalau tak terkena pun. Saya sendiri adalah graduan tempatan 100%, dan komen saya itu berdasarkan pemerhatian ke atas rakan sekelas yang pendiriannya begini: "Alaa, kalau dapat 4 flat pun bukan gerenti masuk syurga".

Ini jenis orang yang bila kita sibuk membaca dan berkongsi apa yang dibaca, akan mencelah dengan mengatakan "Baik baca Quran dan Hadith, lagi berpahala."

Ataupun bila tengok rakan lain cemerlang, akan kata "Alahai, dapat anugerah dekan/naib canselor pun tak menjamin syurga".

Graduan tempatan bermentaliti menyakitkan minda dan hati macam ini memang ramai. Kalau graduan luar negara, saya kurang arif pula. (Kalau tengok contoh terdekat - suami dan abang - takde pula begitu).

Ramai graduan tempatan (berdasarkan 'feel' pelajar praktikal dan rakan sekelas) yang buat kerja kursus asalkan siap dan hantar. Padahal kalau dia faham Quran dan Hadith, bersederhana dalam Islam tu bukan buat sekadar tangkap muat.


message 25: by Faizah Roslaini (new)

Faizah Roslaini | 825 comments Mod
Tak pasti cemana nak respon thread ni sebab tak ada pengalaman belajar di both local and abroad.

Tapi abroad tu mestilah exposurenya lebih. Sampai terlebih-lebih pun ada. Expose kepada cara pemikiran yang pelbagai misalnya, expose kepada teknologi terbaharu.

Misalnya, 10 tahun dulu mereka dah heboh fasal nanotech, kita mungkin baru 5-6 tahun rancak cerita fasal nanotech.

Sekarang tak tahulah. Mungkin kelembapan ekonomi barat ada mempengaruhi tahap kemajuan mereka.


message 26: by Limau Nipis (last edited Mar 20, 2012 08:59PM) (new)

Limau Nipis (limaunipis) | 89 comments Pengalaman saya:

Untuk degree, saya buat kat local private university. Tak kurang exposure macam kat oversea - secara sosial, atau dari segi struktur pembelajaran.

Syllabus is up to date, one of the toughest in fact for my course. I can't believe I survived. We even had to do a thesis for our degree, and the thesis consist of annual report data from 500 KLSE listed companies, whewww

For professional course (I am a professional accountant, ahem, but not exercising my skill right now, hahaha), I went to UK on government's scholarship to complete my ACCA. I found out the experience was well worth the wait. I bring my family (4 kids), and I found the people who bring their family has a much higher motivation factor to do their best in their study - Masters, PhD or just professional course.

When I found the oversea undergraduates failing their study, and asking for extension from the government (find quite a few while I was in the UK), I would simply think, "What a waste of money to support them..". No pun intended for students who excel in their oversea degree.


message 27: by Ulya A.K (new)

Ulya A.K | 263 comments Sometimes its not the location or the studies that makes the difference. I myself was in UK for 5 years and know of some of my seniors who never ventured outside their room during their years over there & dont make friends with non-malaysians. Excuse: "i was send there to study, not have fun." Errr no, you were send to overseas not just to get a paper qualification, but to gain experiences from the people you meet, places that you go, that you might not get to do/see here in malaysia.
i know first hand how easily students get side-tracked as well. they go both ways, some indulge in the fast life while others shun life & joined tabligh (my uni was full of tabligh members by the way) & other zealous kind of fanatics.
Can you truly say you do not have that in malaysia? I think not.
So yes, there are pros & cons in both options, but its you who determine whether you get as much experience out of it of not, where ever you are. Just my 2-cents worth :)


message 28: by Juliana Es (new)

Juliana Es (julianaes) | 857 comments Mod
Kesimpulan saya secara perkiraan ala matematik:

1) graduan tempatan yg cemerlang (1st class) lebih baik drpd graduan luar negara yg cukup mkn (3rd class)
2) graduan tempatan yg cemerlang mungkin lebih baik atau sama dgn graduan overseas yg sederhana (2nd class)

Pun demikian, saya juga suka melihat dari sudut keseimbangan intelektual dgn spiritual. Jadi, kalau kedua pihak adalah sama cemerlang (1st class local vs. 1st class overseas), ukur keseimbangan intelektual, emosi, dan spiritualnya.


message 29: by Akmal Hizam (new)

Akmal Hizam (akmalhizam) | 46 comments Money aside, it's the journey itself that is fulfilling rather than the end.

Studying abroad, you get to manage your life to the smallest details all by yourself (for lucky some, they do this without support from M'sian friends). The circumstances and environment presented abroad makes it easier to not to be pampered. You're forced to live with it, and by that you grow stronger within. I pursued my tertiary education abroad, living outside the campus. I learnt about life a lot.

It is also good to get different perspective of life, tasting different culture and way of thinking. I agree with KH, for some it's the only time to taste the life outside your kampung.

As for being in comfort zone, you can always be in one no matter where you are. Sorry to say, but most Malays (including myself) stick together even abroad. However, judging from the stories of colleagues studying locally, life experience abroad is much better to me.

Language: You wouldn't learn effectively (and actively using) Arabic or German or French or Japanese if the environment doesn't force you to use it for you to survive, in my opinion. English? My friends studying in UK still don't get their grammars right (even myself, for some instances).

Parents would get the opportunity for a cheaper week-long (or more) vacation complete with tour guide, as a bonus.
:)


message 30: by Juliana Es (new)

Juliana Es (julianaes) | 857 comments Mod
Akmal Hizam wrote: "My friends studying in UK still don't get their grammars right"

This boils down to the person's effort, even though the environment might contribute somewhat. For example, even if you are a local graduate but have to work for English-speaking foreigners only, you'll pick up the language and improve your proficiency - provided that you do put in effort to improve.


message 31: by Ummu Auni (new)

Ummu Auni (ummuauni) | 539 comments I'm a local graduate even though I had the opportunity to further my study abroad during recession year. Most of my schoolmates were local products. Tak ada pun yang lokek. Maybe because we were from the school where teachers taught us to be independent and religious as well (we're not from religious school but it's common for my school to be nicknamed as 'religious school'). My ex-schoolmates ramai yang menang Royal Education Award.

Memang ada orang ada mentaliti, duh,grad local je? Tapi..we didn't get the opportunity (dgn maknanya peluang itu, adalah scholarship for abroad) memang tidak ditawarkan tahun saya di bawah JPA/MARA except few: petronas, shell, tenaga.

For me, local ke abroad ke, aim for the best. Jangan main-main. Orang dah sponsor belajar, mak bapa dah keluar duit, nak aim yang rendah je ke? Dakwah pun dakwah juga, tapi matlamat utama is your duty as a student.


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