Fantasy Book Club Series discussion
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The Crippled God
Malazan Book of the Fallen
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The Crippled God- Book V Hand Upon the Fates & Book VI- To One in Chains
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And how is she moving the snake? New Warrens? Just what is Icarium doing and how ling before Mappo arrives.I still don't get why Tavore wants to march across the desert. I can understand that she wants to create a diversion, but she must know how big it is, what length of time it will take adn how much water they have. It's a logistics thing. So with that in mind, I assume that she is expecting help at some stage, maybe from the T'lan Imass? She can't expecting to do it alone.
I think Quick Ben has given her a lot of info and expect him to return sometime soon.
Personally, I don't think Quick Ben is the one who told Tavore anything. In some ways he's very selfish about the information he knows. I think somewhere you find out that they've talked, and Quick Ben was astonished by what Tavore knew. (Of course, we as the reader didn't find out what that was). I never could understand why certain characters, such as Fiddler, hated Quick Ben, but after seeing how he holds all that information so close to himself, I understand better now.
Lee wrote: "And how is she moving the snake? New Warrens? Just what is Icarium doing and how ling before Mappo arrives.I still don't get why Tavore wants to march across the desert. I can understand that she..."
Not sure if it's in this section, pretty sure it is, but Ganoes is talking to Quick Ben and Kalam and they're discussing Tavore, and Ganoes says to them that Tavore is a military genius! That their father used to let the Fists (ect) play mock battles with Tavore!! After about the age of 7-8 she couldn't be beat, and after that she used to take the losers side and win those battles too. She also did a lot of reading of all the old history tumes, she paid attention to the histories of both religion and Empires, so what does she know that now else does, A LOT!! :) So why cross the Glass Desert, because it is the most unexcepted military move ever! NO ONE excepts them to survive!
SE has hinted, thru Fiddler, that there will be a special mission for the Marines, so it's all tided in with that!
Tavore has told no one what her plans are, also seen thru a scene with Quick Ben and Ganoes, where they're "discussing" events and Quick Ben realizes that Ganoes and Tavore never had a plan...Quick starts freaking out, one of the funniest scenes in this whole book (right around pg 615 in the hardcopy version!)
haven't got to that meet up yet. Still no sign of Quick Ben, Kallam (finally!) and Ganoes.But reading this, it still doesn't explain how she knows things, sure she might be a military genius but where is she getting her 'tasks' from? How does she know what the Assail are up to? How does she know about the CG heart? Cotillion/shadowthrone? Could they be pulling her chains? K'rul?
I also am going to question the Military genius bit, the battle at Letheros would have be a wholesales slaughter of the Bonehunters if it wasn't for one mage. She got real lucky there, she massively underestimated Letharii mages and only survived the slaughter because of one man.
Now she marches through a desert that form a supply chain perspective is suicide. So it matters not that the opponents WOULD NOT expect it, if its not humanly possible, then its pointless. So either she knows that she will get help in the desert or she is a "she'll be right mate" optimist, which is the worst kind of leader you could hope for.
In fact expanding on that Military genius. We have seen her lead 4 major expeditions.1. To quell the rebellion, which involved marching across a desert and stabbing her sister.
2. Chasing Leoman, which involved marching across a desert and having half her army burnt to a crisp
3. Invading Letheros, which involved burning boats and a very very lucky escape when all looked doomed.
4. Marching across a desert and meeting Nah ruk ending in whole sale slaughter and a depletion of army.
5. Marching across a desert to seemingly their deaths, until
so....... I hear ya Ganoes, but ya know what, she has shown as much military genius as she has emotion imho.
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Lee wrote: "In fact expanding on that Military genius. We have seen her lead 4 major expeditions.1. To quell the rebellion, which involved marching across a desert and stabbing her sister.
2. Chasing Leoman,..."
Lee first, you forgot to add Malaz City to your list. Just keep reading, you'll understand about the role the Nar'ruk played in all of this. I think personally that the battle to win Lethers was genuis!
Second, all off what Tavore "knows" is because she read EVERYTHING she could get her hands on, so ALL those poems and histories at the start of each chapter she would have read, to include the hostories of the first Chaining! Here knowledge is power...
And it's as Maggie said, what about the "gift" the Bugg/Meal gave to Tavore in the start of TCG?? Nothing we ever do in the Military is ever by ourselves, it takes a lot of individuals to win the battle, what Tavore did was to NEVER accept defeat.
Finally, I would add a therory here that I know we haven't talked about before, back in both Deadhouse Gates and House of Chains we see Felisn remembering her childhood and there was something she remembers about her mother having the power of "Sight" (or a Seer) but to Felisn's knowledge none of the children inherited that gift, hmmmmmm really, I wonder??
I can see that working, that Tavore is a seer, there are some clues here that shows certain events are expected by her. Like when the T'lan Imass appear, she was so relived they had come, as if she was expecting them.Your memory Shells, continues to impress me.
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I'm impressed by everyone here. I read these books not that long ago and I still find myself lost by some of your comments. LOL.
Ganoes has certainly become strong, his meeting with a pure Assail was most interesting.
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I loved his argument. Even the Pure enjoyed it, until she realized it was time to kill him.So now I am really enjoying the discussion between Hood and Elalle. This has opened up some thoughts about Tavore, certainly the guilt side. Hood has implied that Tavore has guilt from killing her sister, but Elalle has worked out that she might not even know it was her sister. We certainly know that Tavore is carrying massive guilt over putting Felesin into the camps and that could be a massive part of her drive. Even Hood had to look away when asked what Tavore gets out of this.
Lee wrote: "I can see that working, that Tavore is a seer, there are some clues here that shows certain events are expected by her. Like when the T'lan Imass appear, she was so relived they had come, as if she..."Excatly right Lee!! And the time Sinter comes to her, it was like she knew, how is that possible!!?? And yeah Shraq Elalle is a favorite character of mine, her observations are always spot on and I dear say I enjoyed her conversations with Tehol!
And thank you Lee, what a nice thing to say!! ;-)
I can see Ganoes is growing on you Lee!! Doesn't he seem to have grown up quit a bit!! :) The Parans were well educated and his dialog is a reflection of that and his life lessons!
Alright since Lee is in book seven I can talk about chapter 19!! What a chapter!!! By the end, the Shake had bearly 100 people left and out of the woods comes the Andii!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOT!!! Spindock's speech thru the woods brought me to tears!!! I kept on thinking Rake would be so proud!!! And Twilight lossing her brother broke my heart, but then she and Korlat bond at the end was awesome!
Spinnock isn't it? forgive my unsureness, it is not often i get to correct you. Yeah the crashing through the trees beating the shield riled them up. The Tiste Liosen are just completely unlikeable in this book, there is nothing that they do that makes you feel for them.
I thought the brother had to go in the end, I was expecting him to somehow seal the gate with a dragon. But I am glad Brevity survived, that character developed well over that story.
You are right, I am starting to like Ganoes, I have thought, until these last couple of chapters, that he is a very weak character, (not weakly written). that he has all this potential but was a spoilt noble who expected others to do the work for him. But now, I think the time in House, has matured him and he is beginning to understand what he is capable of, and what he is supposed to do, but now that he knows that, he feels that he might just do it his own way and not follow the rules. typically Paran trait then.
Hi conversation with Ben was very funny as they were discussing the future, I laughed when Ben asked "what are we to do next" and Ganoes replied something like "ah, that is unfortunate, I was about to ask you the same question". I could just image Ben's face.
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Also funny-Brevity's neww BFF-the girl who lost her 'brothers'....that was cute
I agree about Yedan! It was very sad! I really liked how much support he gave to his sister and his people. And his stand at the breach, just amazing to rally his people to keep fighting just long enough. It's great that the Tiste Liosan thought they were facing a whole army and it was just one man. I also thought it was interesting that their normal soldiers weren't telling the leaders that they were fighting humans instead of Tiste Andii. Somehow I don't think they liked being forced to fight this fight any more than the Shake wanted to defend against them.
Lee wrote: "Spinnock isn't it? forgive my unsureness, it is not often i get to correct you. Yeah the crashing through the trees beating the shield riled them up. The Tiste Liosen are just completely unlikea..."
Sorry Lee that was a typo!! :P
Yeah so that scene with Quick and Ganoes was frigging hilarious!!! I couldn't stop laughing!!
Yedan is on my list of bad asses with a sword that for sure!! :) He was cold iron for sure!! :)
Has anyone gotten to the letter Tehol writes to Brys in book seven??
I'm finished, so I've read it. I choked up. It was kind of weird seeing Tehol so serious in his own way.
Yeah, I loved that whole bi play, that Tehol knew that Brys would have it read in front of others, and Brys knew that Tehol knew that he would. I thought it was a great letter, it was only when Brys talked about the 'telling me he loved me' bit did I realise just how important it was.
This time, in trying to channel some anger to get Rudd moving, she manages to move the whole snake! Only, now where are they??????