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The Story of My Life: An Afghan Girl on the Other Side of the Sky
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Melissa | 10 comments I just read a memior in which an Afghan girl has a conversion experience after praying to Allah. She pleaded for God to help her and she felt more calm, serene and able to bear life. She was very faithful in her prayers toward Mecca from that day on.

I would like some perspective from my other disciples of Christ. I believe that when Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me," he claims that the Christian faith is exclusive.

What is the truth about conversion stories? People claim that Jesus changed their life - and I've watched it happen, but people from other faiths have these stories.


message 2: by Rhianna (last edited Feb 17, 2012 09:24PM) (new)

Rhianna Clawson You never really know if a person is saved or not. You can't look at their heart, only God knows for sure if they're saved or if they've just committed their lives to whatever their religion is (no matter if they think Jesus has any part in it or not). Jesus does change lives; once you've repented and have put your trust in Jesus Christ, you're a new creation. As Jesus said to Nicodemus, you're born again.
So basically you never actually know for sure, or positively, the truth about conversion stories.
Whether you're Muslim, Mormon, or whatever, repenting and putting your trust in Jesus automatically makes you a believer of the Christian faith. Which is basically John 3:16. If the person believes yet keeps the title of their old particular religion...well I would definitely question where their heart is.


message 3: by Rhianna (new)

Rhianna Clawson So basically you never actually know for sure, or positively, if a conversion story is true or not.


message 4: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 102 comments If you look at the requirements for salvation (according to the Bible) they are:

Romans 10

8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”

16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

~~~~~

So, I think some people require too much proof. For example they may say that because a person doesn't obey all the commandments they aren't a real believer. That isn't a requirement. I do think that as we grow in Christ, we should want to please Him by obeying Him -- but it isn't a requirement ... more an evidence of the love we have for him.

The requirement comes in understanding/believing who He is and what He did on the cross -- that He rose from the dead for our sins, and that they confess with their mouth that He is their Lord and Savior.

That is hard to believe about someone who follows a totally different religion that ... clashes with the Christian belief system. Specially when you see those verses in context and they stress the importance of preaching the Word - the Good News so salvation can take place.

We can't really know what is another person's heart -- but God did say that nothing should be put in place in front of Him. If someone is saying Jesus led them to a better relationship with ... allah or some other God, then we have to know it isn't true. He wrote the Bible as our guide. Anyone who wanted to follow Him should be using it, not another religion.


message 5: by RevRonR (new)

RevRonR (chapronrin) | 2 comments i find this strange that there would be such a thing as a "conversion" experience by a young Muslim girl who was already Muslim growing up in Afghanistan. Also, there isn't so much talk about conversion experiences in Islam since their theological system says all people are born Muslim anyway. This is patently false. i will only agree that all are born sinners and need a real Savior - who is Jesus Christ, and Him alone. Many people find may find some contentment and what they think is a new life in these other religions. But I'm confident if this girl were given the chance to hear the Good News of a real living Savior, she'd see the emptiness and inadequacy of what she believes now. Jesus said there is only one narrow road that leads to life and there are few who find it. Don't let these other stories fool you. True salvation and a right relationship with God comes through Christ alone.


message 6: by Karen (new)

Karen Margaret wrote: "If you look at the requirements for salvation (according to the Bible) they are:

Romans 10

8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of fai..."

Amen


message 7: by Mary (new)

Mary Findley | 143 comments If a conversion experience is based only on personal feelings and the culture/religion you grew up in it can "happen" to anyone. You can have good feelings, do good works and your church/mosque/temple can testify that you are "converted." There is, however, only one true God and one true way of salvation, well-stated by several posts above. Though Muslims claim to worship the same God as Jews and Christians, true salvation comes through believing in the atonement of Jesus Christ, as the Word teaches. No Muslim asks Christ to save him/her and remains a Muslim. Every other religion I know of relies on works as apart of salvation, a lifetime of striving and practicing but not certainty that you've done enough. What is in a person's heart we cannot know, but what is in the Word of God (the doctrine of salvation) we can be certain is the only way to achieve a true conversion.


message 8: by Karen (new)

Karen Mary wrote: "If a conversion experience is based only on personal feelings and the culture/religion you grew up in it can "happen" to anyone. You can have good feelings, do good works and your church/mosque/tem..."

amen.


Melissa | 10 comments Rhianna wrote: "You never really know if a person is saved or not. You can't look at their heart, only God knows for sure if they're saved or if they've just committed their lives to whatever their religion is (no..."

Rhianna, thanks for the reminder that only God sees the heart. I guess the tricky thing about conversions is that people can lie, or be decieved, or they can be completely walking in truth.


Melissa | 10 comments Margaret wrote: "If you look at the requirements for salvation (according to the Bible) they are:

Romans 10

8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of fai..."



Have you ever read C.S.Lewis' 'The Last Battle' in that book there this idea that if someone is longing for truth and seeking God to the best of their abilites that their actions are kind of "counted toward righteousness", even if they are seeking through the religion they are most familiar with. Would you think there is any scriptural evidence for this?


Melissa | 10 comments Chapronrin wrote: "i find this strange that there would be such a thing as a "conversion" experience by a young Muslim girl who was already Muslim growing up in Afghanistan. Also, there isn't so much talk about conv..."

The word "conversion" was probably never used in the book. Farah grew up Islamic - her grandfather was a mullah. But when she was going through a tough time she prayed out of desparation, and then became devout, and practised her faith.

And although she learned about Christianity when she came to America, she was trained to be very suspicious of any attempts to "convert" her.


Melissa | 10 comments Mary wrote: "If a conversion experience is based only on personal feelings and the culture/religion you grew up in it can "happen" to anyone. You can have good feelings, do good works and your church/mosque/tem..."

So, do you think they do worship the same God? Or is it a moot point since they don't confess Jesus as the son of God?


message 13: by Patricia (last edited Feb 20, 2012 07:45AM) (new)

Patricia Kirk | 154 comments All I can say is that as a new Christian I asked God to tell me if Jesus was the only way. Shortly thereafter I became absolutely sure that that was the case. The only really straight answer you can get is by asking God. If any Religion tries to honor Jesus as a prophet or one of many gods, it's a false religion. Chuck Swindoll has said calling Jesus a prophet is beyond patronizing. He says Jesus was either God or He was a madman. He said He was God. I don't believe He was a madman.


message 14: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 102 comments Melissa wrote: "Mary wrote: "If a conversion experience is based only on personal feelings and the culture/religion you grew up in it can "happen" to anyone. You can have good feelings, do good works and your chur..."

It is a moot point. Jesus himself said He was the only way to the Father. The Bible says you have to believe He is the son of God and that He died on the cross and rose from the dead ... and that God is the one and only God.

Jesus isn't just a prophet - a good teacher - or a nice man. He wasn't crazy either. So, no - I don't think they're serving the same God.


message 15: by Karen (new)

Karen Margaret wrote: "Melissa wrote: "Mary wrote: "If a conversion experience is based only on personal feelings and the culture/religion you grew up in it can "happen" to anyone. You can have good feelings, do good wor..."

I agree. Believe or not at your own peril.


message 16: by Dana (new)

Dana Rongione (danarongione) | 36 comments Melissa wrote: Have you ever read C.S.Lewis' 'The Last Battle' in that book there this idea that if someone is longing for truth and seeking God to the best of their abilites that their actions are kind of "counted toward righteousness", even if they are seeking through the religion they are most familiar with. Would you think there is any scriptural evidence for this?

Melissa, that's the one part of that book I really don't like. In fact, it's the one part of the entire series that I dislike. The comment that if it was done for Tash, then it was also done for Aslan. As long as the intentions were pure and the heart was devoted, it all counted as service to the true God. That's just not so, and as much as I enjoy the series (especially that book), I get irritated every time I read that part. There is no Biblical evidence to support this. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary.


message 17: by C.L. (new)

C.L. | 18 comments Dana wrote: "Melissa wrote: Have you ever read C.S.Lewis' 'The Last Battle' in that book there this idea that if someone is longing for truth and seeking God to the best of their abilites that their actions ar..."

I agree with Dana. I'm a huge C.S. Lewis fan, but I don't agree with everything he wrote (I love Narnia, but I'm still trying to figure out The Great Divorce). The prophet Habakkuk said it best "The just shall live by his faith" and Paul made it clear that our faith is in God's Son Jesus Christ, not in any good works we think we've done.


message 18: by Karen (new)

Karen C.L. wrote: "Dana wrote: "Melissa wrote: Have you ever read C.S.Lewis' 'The Last Battle' in that book there this idea that if someone is longing for truth and seeking God to the best of their abilites that the..."

Books may contain some truth, but not The TRUTH. Only by the word of God.


Melissa | 10 comments I do believe the concept that C.S.Lewis brings up is a Biblical concept. Hebrews 11 talks a great deal about faith in God being counted as righteousness to those who knew nothing, or little of Jesus.

God is just, so if someone has limited knowledge of Jesus, isn't it possible he would count their faith as righteousness?


message 20: by Karen (new)

Karen Melissa wrote: "I do believe the concept that C.S.Lewis brings up is a Biblical concept. Hebrews 11 talks a great deal about faith in God being counted as righteousness to those who knew nothing, or little of Jesu..."

Talking about before Jesus cam there. O. T. setting. Those that do not have as much light of BIble such as say Saudi Arabia, god will reveal in manners, dreams things you will not see in countries where you do have the bible, but it is still believe in jests Christ alone that is shown and shown. God says: Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He gives every man light.


message 21: by Mary (new)

Mary Findley | 143 comments C.S. Lewis got his Christian education in a vacuum, meaning he thought things out for himself without taking a lot of instruction from more mature believers. His works are far from doctrinally pure, and he agreed with many of the Christian Humanists in trying to use his own reason where he didn't understand pretty clear teaching. It's sad to think that faithful people won't be rewarded for being sincere if their faith isn't in what the Scriptures teach about Jesus Christ, but it's true.


Melissa | 10 comments Good stuff. :) I appreciate the feedback. It's nice to have other Christian to bounce ideas off of.


message 23: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 102 comments Mary wrote: "C.S. Lewis got his Christian education in a vacuum, meaning he thought things out for himself without taking a lot of instruction from more mature believers. His works are far from doctrinally pure..."

"It's sad to think that faithful people won't be rewarded for being sincere if their faith isn't in what the Scriptures teach about Jesus Christ, but it's true."

I have heard amazing stories about missionaries going out to jungle tribes that were isolated and finding a group that recognized the Bible stories in what they had come to believe about their God. They called him by names similar to Old Testament Jewish names -- what He did for them and how He provided for them ... Creator, Healer, Provider ... but all the same God. People dreamed about Him and had visions about Him creating the whole world - even about the flood. When the missionaries told the same stories, they wanted to know more and hungered for more of the truth about the God they already loved and worshiped. Nothing they believed about God went against the Bible. They had some ... gaps in their knowledge - but nothing was anti-Christian - and they were eager to embrace the truth.

Today the Bible is available in nearly every language and in every place on the planet. It is on the bestselling list all the time - in several versions. It is freely available on the internet (translatable there as well) on several sites ... I just can't imagine why anyone who wanted to know what God wrote about Himself couldn't access it if they wanted to. The Bible also promises that we will find God if seek Him with our whole heart and our soul.

The people who claim all Gods are one and Christians are intolerant or God would be mean not to accept them because they just don't have a chance to know the truth ... I think it's an excuse. It's just like someone standing before the judge and telling them they didn't know it was wrong to commit the crime. We all know it's wrong to lie, steal, murder, drink and drive ... whatever. People make those choices anyway. People also choose not to accept Christ. They choose to worship their jobs, money, themselves, some other religion ... It's still a choice -- and it's one they made with free will. God made a way for everyone to be saved - but He isn't going to force them to accept it.

When my sons were little one of them went through a phase where he was very attached to his father. He didn't want anything to do with me. He only wanted Daddy. My husband is a big softy and didn't want my feelings hurt so he would try and bribe, cajole, and sometimes practically force my son into giving me goodnight love. Do you think those hugs and kisses meant the same to me as when he came willingly running up - squealing and happy to be with me? No. I didn't want the forced love and neither does God. He won't accept it anymore than I did. It's empty and meaningless.


message 24: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 102 comments Sorry - all of that is to say that faithful people will be rewarded. What C.S. Lewis said (and I like his books too - but like all authors I don't take everything they say as gospel - only the Bible is totally trustworthy) wasn't just not in the Bible - like computers are left out or what color Mary's clothes were; it goes against what the Bible says. That's why people had a problem with that statement and why we have to take the stance that we check it against the Bible. If it goes against the Word - God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow - and His Word is our guide for faith and life.

People change and let you down. Standards of morality change. Laws and country borders change. That Bible has stood the test of time and is rock solid and trustworthy. That is where I stand.


message 25: by Mary (new)

Mary Findley | 143 comments Margaret, what you say about truth being available to those who seek it, and God preparing even people who don't seem to have any way of hearing it, is very true. There are elements of truth in many cultures and ancient documents, but those who deny and reject the truth have tried to twist and bury it. I'm not sure it's true that tribes have no error to overcome, according to missionaries we have talked to. Still, When the Lord said He was not willing that any should perish, He meant it.


message 26: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 102 comments Mary wrote: "Margaret, what you say about truth being available to those who seek it, and God preparing even people who don't seem to have any way of hearing it, is very true. There are elements of truth in man..."

I didn't say that tribes in general - or even this particular tribe group had no errors to overcome -- just that this particular tribe (it was actually a collection of small tribes that formed one larger tribe) I was talking about wasn't believing anything about God that wasn't true according to the Bible.

Everyone has sin individually and they were very aware of theirs. They asked God to forgive them - and like I said, they were eager to learn the full truth the missionaries offered.

I wasn't talking about all tribes in general. I was speaking about one particular incident that was related to us in a conference. I know many tribes are pagan and worship in ways that are very offensive to God.


message 27: by Mary (new)

Mary Findley | 143 comments I'm sorry if you thought I was disagreeing with you, Margaret. I wasn't. Missionaries tell amazing stories of tribes clearly prepared to hear the truth. It is miraculous, such a blessing to hear about. It gives us all hope when we think of and pray for people and don't see how they will be reached. God does the most amazing things. Again, Margaret, I appreciated what you said. Thank you for sharing it.


message 28: by Patricia (new)

Patricia Kirk | 154 comments Margaret wrote: "Mary wrote: "C.S. Lewis got his Christian education in a vacuum, meaning he thought things out for himself without taking a lot of instruction from more mature believers. His works are far from doc..." Jesus has written Himself on every heart. On some level everyone knows about God. They may deny Him if an important person in their lives hurt them in His name, or feel He disappointed them due to misunderstood promises they believe God made, but in a small corner of their heart, they know better.

If they live in a cave somewhere and never heard but long for Him, God will honor their faith. I think your example of the tribe is an excellent example.


message 29: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle Is there a Bible verse that says "Jesus has written himself on every heart?"

I'm not so sure. Some people assume when God talks about his elect that he's referring to everyone. But the Bible says some are children of Satan...some are children of God.

Romans 8:9 Anyone who does not have the spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Romans 8:14 For all who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God.

For awhile now i've been trying to figure out if God actually loves everyone. Many blindly assume YES. But the Bible has some interesting word choices on this issue. For instance:

John 3:16 says,
For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only Son, what whoever believes...

It does not say: For God loved EVERYONE, and gave his only Son...

I just find this topic interesting. I does change how many of us understand God and his will. I know that Oprah Winfrey disagrees with me greatly. God isn't fooling around.

John 6:39 Jesus said, "and this is the will of the Father, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but will raise it up on the last day."

So basically: if God wants you. He's gonna get you. Fun eh?


message 30: by Samuel (new)

Samuel Baidoo | 4 comments Rod,
Thank you so much for the above information
(For God so loved the World that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life) John 3:16 NIV.
(Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned) Mark 16:16 NIV .
We should bear in mind that not all people will be saved by Christ Jesus. Those who believes in Him. It is as simply as A B C. Either you're on the side of Christ Jesus or Satan, please I tell you Choose Christ Jesus and be saved.


message 31: by Karen (new)

Karen Rod wrote: "Is there a Bible verse that says "Jesus has written himself on every heart?"

I'm not so sure. Some people assume when God talks about his elect that he's referring to everyone. But the Bible says..."


God would have everyone come to repentance. All who sin are a child of the devil until saved. The wrath of God is on you until you are adopted as and stays on you if you do not get saved.
There is a verse that says Jesus Lighteth every man that cometh into the world. EVERY MAN.Joh_1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


message 32: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle John 1:9 is great. Indeed SHOULD enlighten everyone. Yet the world did NOT know him. Does that mean that God failed? Was the light not enough?

Sorry, I like to question everything.

The light was enough to condemn, but was it enough to reach everyone? No. Mankind's will to rebel is pretty strong. Yet God says not one of his chosen will get away.
Its an interesting scenario. God doesn't fail. The big question is: What was his original plan for mankind?

Technically its none of our business. God will do whatever he wants. But it does affect our understanding of God...as well as how religions and denominations differ.

Thanks for exploring this with me. I like hearing people's opinions.


message 33: by Samuel (new)

Samuel Baidoo | 4 comments The original plan is to live forever, sin came in to mall this plan., and Jesus have to come to save mankind.


message 34: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle So you are saying we were meant to live forever in the Garden of Eden? Then why Satan? why a tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Where was Jesus in the Garden of Eden?

I think God wanted all this to happen. For his glory of course. Why didn't God give the laws and covenant to Adam? Or Noah? He waited awhile to hand them to Abraham and Moses.

I think it is playing out perfectly. Messy but divine. But it all comes down to: Does God love everyone? Even Satan or Hitler? I'm still thinking it through.


message 35: by Samuel (new)

Samuel Baidoo | 4 comments He loves everyone but some of us don't love Him through our choices we have been making each passing moment in life.


message 36: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle Did God/Jesus love Judas? Is there any mention in the Bible of Jesus ministering to him and begging him to not betray Jesus? I don't think so. I could be wrong though.

Are everyone God's elect? Why not?


message 37: by Karen (new)

Karen Rod wrote: "Did God/Jesus love Judas? Is there any mention in the Bible of Jesus ministering to him and begging him to not betray Jesus? I don't think so. I could be wrong though.

Are everyone God's elect? Wh..."


good question. He called Judas a devil.


message 38: by Janette (new)

Janette Mapes | 84 comments Good discussion.

I don't think the question should be did God/Jesus love Judas, but rather did Judas love God/Jesus?
Judas was human & he did human things. Just because God Chose him as a disciple didn't mean he wouldn't make bad choices of his own. Do you think he's in hell? I'm not so sure. We all sin. Obviously he regretted his choice. I don't necessarily think suicide is an unpardonable sin. I think the unpardonable sin is rejecting Christ.

I happen to believe God loves everyone (even Satan and Hitler). However the choice is ours. Will we love him?

As far as God's elect goes. We should just sit back & wait for God. He already knows who's in so we might as well just go straight to heaven at salvation the rest will follow - right? They are his elect - right? They've already been chosen. Someone once explained it to me this way: As you look at heavens gate from this side the sign reads "whosoever will. God is not willing that any should perish." From inside the the sign reads "God's elect (God's chosen people)". We are necessary to God's plan. He expects us to work at getting EVERYONE into heaven while we are here on Earth. Who accepts salvation is not our job.

He holds the plan. It's not for me to understand it all. If I did I'd probably mess it all up.


message 39: by Karen (last edited Mar 19, 2012 07:27AM) (new)

Karen Janette wrote: "Good discussion.

I don't think the question should be did God/Jesus love Judas, but rather did Judas love God/Jesus?
Judas was human & he did human things. Just because God Chose him as a discipl..."


Jesus lied when he said he was a devil? Not having a devil, but was? Satan is God's enemy. Where are you getting this stuff? Hitler is burning in hell.
The rest is pretty good.we are to witness though.


message 40: by Janette (new)

Janette Mapes | 84 comments Where is the verse where Jesus said he was a devil? Luke 22:3 says:...Satan entered him. John 13:2 says: The devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus. John 13:27 says: As soon as Judas took the bread Satan entered into him. and in Verse 28 Jesus says: What you are about to do , do quickly. Later in the garden when he betrays him Matthew 26:50 Jesus says: Friend, do what you came for. If he was the devil why did Jesus call him friend? Being possessed by Satan is different from being Satan.
People tend to forget that Jesus chose Judas just like the other disciples. And the bible says they All abandoned him. I am not saying he was a saint or that I think he was a hero. He chose to do something wrong. We all have sinned & come short of the glory of God.

As to Hitler. How do you know what his heart condition was when he died? You can assume from the evil in his life that he's burning in hell. But you don't know that. God loves everyone no matter what. It's what we do with that that is important. We can accept it or not. The thief on the cross was saved at the last minute. God can save anyone no matter how much evil they have entertained. He is omnipotent.


message 41: by Karen (new)

Karen Joh_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Thief on the cross repented. Hitler messed with God's chosen people. We have all sinned, but as with Pharaoh God does harden hearts, I have not sent million of God's blessed people to ovens. Jesus called him friend to make a point. Calling him friend brings more judgement. Psalm 109 is God's prayer of what to do to Judas on the cross.God will be kind to some who's hearts are evil to display His goodness in judgement against their own evil. He is omnipotent, but does limit himself. Gen_18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
He chose Judas knowing he was a devil to use him to accomplish his plan . he chose all the evil nations to chasten Israel. Then turned around and punished them for doing it. Have you really read and studied the scriptures or just "waited" I hate to waste time like this on someone who probably does really not want to love the actual Person that God really is because they always choose their own feelings and Godd as they make him above the totality of scripture.As much as God is love ,he is pure hate. He is balanced. O will this be what you "feel" Galatians_4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Deu_7:10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
Hitler.
Psa_35:6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
Psa_73:18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.

Pro_1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; This is God. Psa_2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Yes, If you accept his offering for sin after the cross, you are saved forever, but you do not play games with God. You obey him and learn His word-after saved. Show me a verse that says God loves them no matter what? why did Jesus die then? What saved you?


message 42: by Jocelyn (new)

Jocelyn Gunter | 32 comments Thank God for his grace! Thank God it is not up to us to decide! I have learned over the years just how gracious God is!

My father committed suicide and I whole heartidly believe he is in heaven. My nephew loved God but at 17 died from drugs because he struggled in this life. I truly believe that he is in heaven as well.

Remember Paul who persecuted and killed Christians before he had an encounter with God!? Remember the thief on the cross that was forgiven and entered heaven at that moment? God is a just God but he doesn't not want us to parish. We never know the last moments of ones life.

It is our heart condition God looks at and we are not able to see that, only God is! I think there will people in heaven we don't expect and people we think will make it that won't! Many talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

Mathew 24:42; keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

I just pray that I am ready. That I am here to do what God has called me to do and that I take as many souls with me as I can!


message 43: by Karen (new)

Karen Jocelyn wrote: "Thank God for his grace! Thank God it is not up to us to decide! I have learned over the years just how gracious God is!

My father committed suicide and I whole heartidly believe he is in heaven...."


I agree, There is a difference between being ready with salvation and being ready to be judged for what you did after salvation. One gets you to heaven-one is the position you will have in the Millennium. People are just unbalanced of which God would have us be, they take Gods grace to far or take works to legalism. Either one is what God calls a false balance and it is an abomination unto Him. You can commit suicide and if saved, you are saved. You can commit any sin a lost person can as a Christian, but I was saying God still has 2 sides. And he does not love the devil and Judas was a devil. Hitler slight chance I am wrong, but very much doubt using all scriptures as commanded by God to judge.

Col_1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
This is my prayer.
I must obey this:1Co_14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
this is my authorization:1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. I just want Christians to have rewards and not be ashamed at his coming. It matters what you teach and believe after you are saved. As Paul said, he was given rewards if he preached what God gave him willingly. Love rejoiceth in the truth. (Charity)


message 44: by Janette (new)

Janette Mapes | 84 comments Very good. By the way, I was just asking not teaching a doctrine.
He called him a devil not the devil. So then in vain in Matthew 16:23 Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me Satan!" So then is Peter also the Devil?

I didn't say God doesn't hate sin. He cannot even look at sin. I didn't say he wasn't a just God either. Unless your sin is washed in his blood you will be judged by your sin. Are you saying there is a point where you've sinned too much? A point where God can no longer forgive sin?

We live in a world where "Christians" Hate the sinners because they sin. We judge others by degree of sin. It's alright to tell a lie, drink to access, cheat on your spouse, etc. But if you've ever had an abortion (or are a Dr. who gave one), went to prison for rape, murdered someone, or did time for molestation you should rot in hell. You can't tell me God doesn't weep over every soul who chooses hell over Him. When they're time on Earth is up - then the judgement of Christ. Why do so many Christians try to do Gods job & judge them here before God is ready? I'm not saying if you're saved go do what you want God will forgive you. I'm simply saying it's not our job to say who deserves God's mercy. Those that don't accept Christ as Savior will spend an eternity in hell no matter what sin they committed or didn't commit.


message 45: by Janette (new)

Janette Mapes | 84 comments Funny how some people can say the exact same thing & get an opposite reaction.


message 46: by Karen (new)

Karen Janette wrote: "Very good. By the way, I was just asking not teaching a doctrine.
He called him a devil not the devil. So then in vain in Matthew 16:23 Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me Satan!" So then is Pe..."


I gave you scripture, but whatever. You did not give me one verse based on authority of God. What you judge me of I never said. Your problem is with God because he said it. I gave you scripture not the things at all you are saying.Where did I say anything you are claiming? People claim to be saved but do not Love God's word. I do not understand that one. Peter was talking from Stan's viewpoint. Read the bible and ask God to show you the difference. Seems someone loves Judas More than God. In any way I have harmed or caused you difficult I apologized, but eternity is at stake I cannot help but speak what God has given me.


message 47: by Janette (new)

Janette Mapes | 84 comments John 3:16 For God so LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

For some reason you are attaching me for saying God loves.
I'm not an idiot I know God is a just God. I don't know that I would say God is pure hate. He is a balanced God I never said he wasn't.

You cannot literally interpreted scripture in John 6:70 to mean Judas is Satan. Then turn around & have scripture contradict itself. If he is Satan in John 6:70 he cannot have Satan enter him in John 13:27. Anymore than you can suddenly claim Matthew 16:23 is not literal then.

The other scripture I didn't understand are you trying to prove God is pure hate? Scripture should be kept in context & read in the spirit God intended.

My point (though somehow twisted) was exactly what Jocelyn wrote. We cannot judge someone elses heart condition. Only God knows our true motives.

Sorry if I offended you, but God does love all sinners. Sorry that is not your take on scripture.


message 48: by Rod (new)

Rod Horncastle I'm still not convinced God loves all of mankind.But don't worry - I've been investigating this for a few years now. It's an interesting challenge. It seems there are verses for and against. But God is love/justice/grace/mercy no matter what. The tricky part is justice. Most people don't even like to talk about it seems. Thanks everyone.

This question has more to do with sorting out False religions than people. IF God wants someone saved: they WILL be. He's awesome that way. This question quickly shows the difference between the God of the Muslim's, Buddhists?, Hindu's, New ager's, JW's etc.

Did Jesus die for everyone? Apparently yes. Chuck Swindoll mentioned a verse that shows this. I can't remember which one though.


message 49: by Jocelyn (new)

Jocelyn Gunter | 32 comments Oh yes, God loves us all...he gives us over to our sinful nature because we have free will. You see this in the old testament with Pharaoh. God gave him over to his sinful nature to show his power. Yet God did give him many chances). He does not in no way want anyone to perish. That is why Jesus died.

I do not believe Jesus called Judas "the devil" and I do believe that Judas could be in heaven. Just as Samson is.

If you were to look down onto something from a plane you don't see the hills and streets any different from above they are the same level. That is how God sees sin. A thief is as bad as a murderer. There is no division of sin. I think we always look at them in levels of degree...we are in need of God's forgiving grace and Jesus' free gift of salvation.

This is the core belief as Christians. That we have a savior that came to earth as a man, suffered was tempted, understands us and died for us. But it doesn't end there he rose again, is living and alive in our lives (what other "religions" are missing)

As a Christian we are not a "religion" we are in a relationship with God, who loves us. If he does not love everyone and did not die for everyone, what are we doing!?


message 50: by Janette (new)

Janette Mapes | 84 comments Jocelyn wrote: "Oh yes, God loves us all...he gives us over to our sinful nature because we have free will. You see this in the old testament with Pharaoh. God gave him over to his sinful nature to show his power...."

AMEN!!!


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