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In Enemy Hands (Honor Harrington, #7)
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SERIES—List & Discussions > Honor Harrington--IN ENEMY HANDS - finished reading (*spoilers*)

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Chris  (haughtc) If you've finished reading, here's the place to discuss without worrying about spoilers.

Please keep spoilers up to and including this book only though. We have a thread for the entire series, but this one is just for Books 1-7.

Also, remember to uncheck the "add to my update feed" box under the text window while posting spoilers. You don't want to accidentally post something that will ruin a friend's reading experience.


message 2: by Jim (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jim (jimmaclachlan) I liked it pretty much - 3 stars - but there was a bit too much 'Honor' & political preaching, even if I happened to agree with most of it. My review is here:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/77...


Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments I liked it ok, but it didn't spend nearly enough time on Honor's adventures, IMO. And I agree with Stefan re: political preaching.


message 4: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kathi | 3219 comments Mod
I liked it a lot. I probably skimmed some of the political preaching, but I do think it's been interesting to watch the Peeps Committee develop with their ideas, prejudices, ambitions, and suspicions. I also think the relationships between some of the PRH Naval officers and their Citizen watchdogs have played out in interesting ways. I also thought it was OK that Honor's armsmen and officers " starred" in a lot of the action.

My random comments here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12...


Amanda | 69 comments I skimmed through it both times I read it, I don't like this one nearly as much as the others.


message 6: by Jim (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jim (jimmaclachlan) I liked that others starred in the action more, but everything was still so centered around Honor that it almost deified her. That was a bit over the top for me. I did like all the Haven stuff, too. That is one of the best parts of the series now, IMO. Turning the bad guys into people 'just like us'.


message 7: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kathi | 3219 comments Mod
In the "no spoilers" thread, Hélène said, "I'm hard pressed to understand Honor's reactions to the admiral - not when she's supposed to be fifty and not fifteen! She really seems emotionally immature. "

I also, at least at this point, don't quite get the resonance between White Haven and Honor. Looking forward to seeing how that develops, to see if it becomes more believable.


Christine (chrisarrow) I agree with the comments on the making of Saint Honor. In fact, I wanted to see more of her mother on Grayson. In some ways,making Honor so special, so unique, is somewhat annoying. I like the treecats, but sometimes I feel Weber takes the whole treecat thing a bit too far - so many accompaning Honor and she gets to name them? Yes, I know they were really with Samantha, but still that whole sequence felt a bit too cutesy. I get the whole treecats as a race want to branch out bit, it makes sense; but I groaned at the whole Honor and treecat comittee.


I do have a question. The link between Honor and Nimitz seems more prone to backlash here. When Honor was shot and seriously wounded in book 2; didn't Nimitz just scream in rage? Is the deeper bound because of the increased empathy (which, I have to say, I find really annoying). I like Weber's writing, but I wish he would stop with the "don't like Honor = bad" shorthand.


message 9: by Jim (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jim (jimmaclachlan) The link between Honor & Nimitz is indeed deepening.


message 10: by Lindsey (last edited Feb 23, 2012 11:26AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lindsey | 382 comments Kathi wrote: "In the "no spoilers" thread, Hélène said, "I'm hard pressed to understand Honor's reactions to the admiral - not when she's supposed to be fifty and not fifteen! She really seems emotionally immature."

I definitely felt this way, both originally and on the re-reads. There is some basis for the emotional immaturity; Weber points out time and again that prolong makes people physically mature slower and there is a strong biologic component to emotional maturity. Also, as we all know, Honor has had a pretty rough time, relationship-wise. Still, 50 years experience with life should leave her more stable than a teenager, IMO.

But, honestly, I've never really liked the Honor/Hamish thing anyway. (view spoiler)


message 11: by Lindsey (last edited Feb 23, 2012 11:41AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lindsey | 382 comments Chris wrote: "...I wanted to see more of her mother on Grayson. I get the whole treecats as a race want to branch out bit, it makes sense; but I groaned at the whole Honor and treecat committee.

The link between Honor and Nimitz seems more prone to backlash here. When Honor was shot and seriously wounded in book 2; didn't Nimitz just scream in rage? Is the deeper bond because of the increased empathy (which, I have to say, I find really annoying). I like Weber's writing, but I wish he would stop with the "don't like Honor = bad" shorthand."


Honor's mother isn't going anywhere, you'll see more of her.

As for the treecats... when are we starting a thread about the short stories!? (More Than Honor was published directly after In Enemy Hands) I feel that you'll like this tangential storyline much better after you know some more about treecats and their society. And Jim's correct, Nimitz's bond with Honor is deepening and has been from the beginning. If you pay close attention, the way Honor describes it and experiences it changes a little with each book. I find it one of the more interesting parts of the series.

And, Chris, I agree, it would be nice to see someone disagree with Honor and be not only right but a good person. Can't remember if this gets better later or not... maybe with her mom? I haven't ever re-read the later books, so it's been awhile.


message 12: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kathi | 3219 comments Mod
I picked up 2 books of short stories and plan to read them as we read the series, so it's good to know that More Than Honor should be my next read.

A thread to talk about them might be nice, I agree.


message 13: by Jim (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jim (jimmaclachlan) I just finished A Beautiful Friendship about Stephanie Harrington, the gal who first bonded with a treecat. My review is here:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...


Chris  (haughtc) Jim wrote: "I just finished A Beautiful Friendship about Stephanie Harrington, the gal who first bonded with a treecat. My review is here:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/..."


Nice timing. That story is actually the first one in More Than Honor. The one in the collection is much shorter. Weber decided to expand it last year, to the novel you read.

I'll start a thread for More Than Honor.


message 15: by Hélène (new) - added it

Hélène (hlneb) | 89 comments Weber points out time and again that prolong makes people physically mature slower and there is a strong biologic component to emotional maturity :
I didn't really notice that bit but, yes, it helps to understand the time lag. Several characters mention the fact that although she looks to be in her twenties, she is much older. I guess I'll have to remind myself that although she is older, she might feel as young as she looks!


message 16: by Lindsey (last edited Feb 28, 2012 09:44AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lindsey | 382 comments Hélène wrote: "I guess I'll have to remind myself that although she is older, she might feel as young as she looks! "

Helene, I think you've hit on part of what bugs me about Honor/Hamish. He's a full generation older (think he's in his 90's?) and 2nd gen prolong. In my head, he looks and acts significantly older than Honor. Analogous to young adult versus middle age, really. I have a hard time wrapping my head around a 40 year age difference. Probably just my real-world prejudices creeping into the fictional Honorverse.

It suddenly occurs to me that White Haven is a character who has disagreed with Honor but is not a Bad Guy (although Weber clearly writes him as being wrong in his disagreement).


Christine (chrisarrow) Why can't White Haven be both right and a good person? But you're right Lindsey, the whole romance thing seems a bit well wonky.


Suzanne | 98 comments I don't like this romance either. Ok, so the difference in ages is supposedly not a big deal because of prolong, but it still bothers me. Even if they were the same age, he is her boss, and he is married. His wife is crippled, but does that make things ok?

When Honor feels the emotional resonance with Hamish, I got the feeling that Weber was making it analogous to the treecat/human bonding - some chord is just struck and that is it. Did anyone else think that?

Sidenote: The treecat planet migration/kittens were one of my favorite parts of the story, but I think that puts me in the minority. It sounds like I should maybe read the prequel story!


message 19: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kathi | 3219 comments Mod
Suzanne wrote: "Sidenote: The treecat planet migration/kittens were one of my favorite parts of the story, but I think that puts me in the minority. It sounds like I should maybe read the prequel story!"

I liked that part, but looking back at it after having read the short story about first contact between treecats and humans, I see it differently. The migration decision is probably a lot more complex than it appears in this book.


Christine (chrisarrow) The mirgration decision itself didn't bother me. If treecats are have thoughts like humans, it makes sense. What bothered me was Honor and all the treecats, like her personal groupies. I guess, it really annoyed me because even though one of them bonded with someone else (Andrew's sister, Miranda, I think the name is), Honor got to name them. Coming as it did with the beginning, which was "Honor is wonderful" it felt like a bit much.


message 21: by Jon (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Jim wrote: "I liked it pretty much - 3 stars - but there was a bit too much 'Honor' & political preaching, even if I happened to agree with most of it. My review is here:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/77..."


You were more generous than I could be. Officially for GoodReads two stars, but probably a 2.5. It had it's moments, but overall I was disappointed.


message 22: by Jon (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I liked it ok, but it didn't spend nearly enough time on Honor's adventures, IMO. And I agree with Stefan re: political preaching."

Very heavy handed with the leftist proselytizing.


message 23: by Jon (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Chris wrote: "I agree with the comments on the making of Saint Honor. In fact, I wanted to see more of her mother on Grayson. In some ways,making Honor so special, so unique, is somewhat annoying. I like the ..."

I so wanted more of Honor's mother. We barely got two chapters (two scenes really) of her and we are left with her bereft after seeing the new reports from the PRH showing Honor as a prisoner (not a POW but a condemned civilian 'murderess').

Too many loose ends and cliffhangers. If I had read this when first published and didn't know when the next book would be available, I would have been pissed.


message 24: by Jon (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Lindsey wrote: "As for the treecats... when are we starting a thread about the short stories!? (More Than Honor was published directly after In Enemy Hands) I feel that you'll like this tangential storyline much better after you know some more about treecats and their society."

I'll read this today, if I can find it in ebook format. It may already be on my Nook ... just need to search for it.


message 25: by Jon (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Chris wrote: "Why can't White Haven be both right and a good person? But you're right Lindsey, the whole romance thing seems a bit well wonky."

I cringed while reading this entire subplot. I sighed with relief when Honor ran away. Not very mature, but I appreciated the cessation of confusion and hormones detracting from the larger picture.


message 26: by Jon (last edited Mar 03, 2012 05:16AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Chris wrote: "The mirgration decision itself didn't bother me. If treecats are have thoughts like humans, it makes sense. What bothered me was Honor and all the treecats, like her personal groupies. I guess, ..."

Excellent observation.

It bothered me that the treecats choose Honor's 'planet' (Grayson) to migrate to. More of the groupie thing. From a rational and logical viewpoint, though, why would you migrate to a toxic planet that will slowly kill your species?


Christine (chrisarrow) It bothered me that the treecats choose Honor's 'planet' (Grayson) to migrate to. More of the groupie thing. From a rational and logical viewpoint, though, why would you migrate to a toxic planet that will slowly kill your species?

Excellent point!


Lindsey | 382 comments Jon wrote: "It bothered me that the treecats choose Honor's 'planet' (Grayson) to migrate to. More of the groupie thing. From a rational and logical viewpoint, though, why would you migrate to a toxic planet that will slowly kill your species?"

An interesting point. Maybe because Manticore is already mostly urbanized and Gryphon is too cold? While Grayson is toxic, it's not 100% lethal. With the advent of Harrington Steading's domes, it's even less dangerous. Plus, it's around a different star. If you're trying to avoid the "all our eggs in one basket problem", relocating to another planet in the same solar system probably isn't the best move.


Marty (martyjm) | 310 comments Finished my re-read. I am not enjoying the re-read as much as my first time through on any of them. Maybe that's evidence that I should not reread at all but always venture to read new things....I'll see how the next one goes...and I suspect I kind of lot track of the series and mAy not have actually read them all as they came out.


message 30: by Richard (last edited Mar 28, 2012 05:47AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Richard (thinkingbluecountingtwo) | 136 comments I fell behind on this one and have only now just finished it. I think I agree with almost all the points raised, both positive and negative, but can only manage a 2.5 stars rating, so to differentiate it from the others that I gave 3 stars to I'll have to give it an official 2 star rating here (bit harsh I know).

I liked all the different subplots and points of view, all very interesting, but it was Webers' verbose writing style that ground me down. The entire book up to the high action climax needed to be vigorously boiled until it had been reduced to half its' size.

Still the cliffhanger ending means that I'll now have to plough onwards into the next book. I just hope to God he tightens up his writing so it doesn't take me all month to get through the opening chapters.


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