Thirteen Reasons Why Thirteen Reasons Why discussion

Hannah, the Selfish Weak Girl?

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

I don't know I loved the story and Hannah. I think people think Hannah's reasons for killing herself are stupid but they don't get that when bad things happens over and over again that it builds up until you can't take it. Its like a water balloon. The more you add to it the bigger and bigger it gets until it finally can't hold it anymore and bursts.

message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

Plus maybe Hannah was mentally ill and wasn't able to get over things like that.

Ruthie Okay, I haven't read this book in a while, but I was terribly annoyed with her when I read the book, so I figured I could add onto this.

First, she WAS in a horrible situation. And she had a horrible reaction to it. Your posts are correct in this. However.

It was the tapes that made me annoyed. The way she spread them around. Yes, these people were horrible to her and deserved to be told off, but the way she did it--the secretive passing around the tapes--I just couldn't get over how immature she sounded. The tapes made it seem like she only killed herself because she wanted these people to feel bad about it. It seemed like such an immature response, a vindictive response.

Maybe I'll read the book again and change my mind, but I was just so taken aback after my first reading of it by what I thought of as her selfish-ness in making the tapes.

She was obviously very mentally ill. It was awful what she went through. But to me, this is not an excuse why I should like a person. I can feel bad for them and understand their logic and their pain, but I in no way have to like them.

message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

Ruthie wrote: "Okay, I haven't read this book in a while, but I was terribly annoyed with her when I read the book, so I figured I could add onto this.

First, she WAS in a horrible situation. And she had a horr..."

I semi-agree with you. The tapes did make her seem immature, but I think she had a right to be selfish.

The tapes made her sound horribly immature and I felt like she didn't really understand what she was doing. I don't think she fully realized how drastic killing herself was.

I think, Hannah was trying to convince everyone that killing herself and leaving only the tapes behind was a way to punish those people, but in reality it was a scared and desperate little girl who wanted someone to pay attention to her.

I didn't hate Hannah, I hate that she did something so reckless and stupid without even pausing to consider it, but I definitely don't hate her.

I have to say though, I have no doubt in her mind that if she had truly thought it over, if she had seriously considered everything she was giving up, everyone she was leaving behind, she wouldn't have gone through with it.

message 5: by Ruthie (last edited Feb 15, 2012 09:17AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ruthie Hannah wrote: "How would you propose for her to have gone about confronting these people? You don't think she had a reason to be vindictive?"

Of course she had a reason to be vindictive, but it's rather stupid to be vindictive by killing yourself, which is what a lot of the tapes seemed to imply -- "I'll make you sorry that you were awful to me, and I will do this by killing myself."

To me, there is never a good reason to kill yourself, because suicide is never the right answer. She hurts and implicates enough people just by killing herself--after a suicide, most people ask "what could I have done to prevent this?" and "what did I do wrong"--those around the person are emotionally scarred by it. Sometimes people who never even knew the victim are affected. I doubt any of the people on the tapes would not have felt some guilt upon hearing of her death.

So yeah, I think her killing herself sent enough of a message. It even sent a message to people she didn't intend it too (Clay before he heard the tape).

Also, I thought it was cheap of Asher to write from the POV of the ONE character who escaped Hannah's wrath. It glorified Hannah's actions. Imagine if it was told from the POV of someone else, someone who did do something a bit dreadful to her (but not the more serious--like the rape--she was raped at one point, I think?), suddenly Hannah becomes someone who goes "you did this awful thing to me once and now I shall ruin your life forever by implicating that you murdered me." It's very "eye for eye", something that I have never liked.

(you have good questions, I think I am going to have to reread this book!)

Ruthie Heaven,

I agree. I didn't hate her, I just didn't like her. She didn't have much introspection on the events of her life.

It's hard to talk about because she was obviously mentally ill. I don't see this as a reason why I should like or not be annoyed by her though.

Amberley "I agree. I didn't hate her, I just didn't like her. She didn't have much introspection on the events of her life. "

She was a young girl, how many adolescents have a lot of introspection on their life at that age? I think Asher wrote this book from the perspective of a girl who could have actually existed. The point isn't to like her or not like her. It seems more to be about how people at this age experience violent emotional changes, and at the same time are starting to form their views of the world. If someone at this point in life is constantly being let down by those around them I find it entirely possible that they would feel like giving up and wondering what the point in life was.

As for sending the tapes, I think these are two separate issues, she didn't kill herself to make the tapes more effective. I think she killed herself to escape the hopelessness she was feeling, and didn't want to leave without showing people how their actions can affect others.

Although the end result was that they felt partially responsible for her death, and Hannah realized this as well. She wasn't thinking, "I'm going to kill myself because they will feel so awful when I am gone."

message 8: by [deleted user] (last edited Feb 15, 2012 01:33PM) (new)

The only problem I had with this book was that Hannah clearly suffered from anxiety or depression (not due to any of the events spoken about in the book) and that part of her was never touched upon. I felt a little annoyed with Hannah because of some of her seemingly severe reactions that did not fit with the severity of the events occuring in her life. I understand that a culmulation of events can put a strain on someone in adolescence, which is a time of turmoil, but she still seemed off. I loved this story though, and I listened to the audio and it left me feeling eerie, which I loved with a story like this!!

message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

How would you guys feel if u had no one to go to and it seemed like whatever you did just messed things up further. it isn't fun. I'm not trying to judge or anything, but everyone has there own reasons.

message 10: by AgCl (new) - rated it 3 stars

AgCl i personally really don't think the reasons she mentioned were enough in reality for someone to kill himself/herself, maybe if Asher went Freudian and added something messed up about her life from her childhood it would've been more believable...oh well i suppose we all have different thresholds of pain.

Lynne AgCl wrote: "i personally really don't think the reasons she mentioned were enough in reality for someone to kill himself/herself, maybe if Asher went Freudian and added something messed up about her life from ..."

I am glad Asher didn't go that route. It seems to be the "go-to" conflict for just about any book out there these days, to the point it's almost a cliche. Some people just give up on themselves. She describes it as a "snowball." One rumor that she let a guy get to second base, and for the ensuing two years everybody treats her like a slut. How often do we believe the funhouse mirror image provided by someone else rather than actually getting to know the person ourselves? In teenworld, it's all too common.

message 12: by Mimi (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mimi Reading the book had me pretty much scarred! i saw from hannah's point of view, what a high school girl can go through! even the simplest, dumbest acts put her into an easiness and drove her into more mental complexity and depression !
i loved the style of the book, how she attacked the other characters and
after going through the reading, i wished badly that there was a different ending, that she would retreat from killing herself and it was only a lesson for others. but having her more dead than ever at the end, was very depressing to me.

she gave up so easily, she ran away and she couldnt confront each one face to face. the tabes were a good idea of revenge.

i cant say hannah was weak nor deny it either. she was just a girl who gave up too soon.

Beatriz When I bought I read just a bit and I thought OMG ! I have to know how this finishes, but then, I understood she had been a bit egocentric, because noone has the blame for her commiting suicide! IT was she who traced her own destiny, she can't blame the others for her actions.
She should have been stronger! She should have try to solve her problems before endind with them like that.

just my opinion...

Salma Hannah's actions were a bit immature - with the whole secretive passing around- but that doesn't put aside the fact that she was depressed and when bad things happen over and over again, it becomes overwhelming. I think the book perfectly portrayed the minute problems that benefit the huge problem; in this case, her suicide/

message 15: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 20, 2014 11:13PM) (new)

I agree with a lot of what Hannah (message 14) said except, "Readers should see that what Hannah did was heroic. She tried to give people a lesson in being more self aware. Not many people get that kind of wake up call. "

I felt that she took no responsibility for her self or her life, and this was the weakness that didn't allow her to cope with her depression. She blamed her problems on other people rather than dealing with them for herself. I think the only thing it could have made people/readers/characters more self-aware of is that our actions can have incredibly, overly drastic effects on melo-dramatic people who take no responsibility for themselves.

I do agree that people who commit suicide are generally people who could not otherwise have dealt with their lives. And I think that plenty of suicides are heroic, but I found this one to be completely immature. No one needs to know that their actions produce effects in melo-dramatics who amplify them way out of proportion because the can't accept themselves for who they are and get on with their lives.

Idk. I didn't like Hannah for most of the book.

Lauren Though it has been a while since I read this book, I remember only really seeing glimpses of what the author was getting at with Hannah's life. He mentioned that she recently moved to a new place and had hard experiences that continually grew over time in her new environment. Personally, I wish that Hannah shared more about her problems, not just her general life, in the tapes. Maybe then I would have been able to understand where Hannah was coming from in this novel.

Therefore, do I think her suicide was a tragic and understandable response the problems in her life? Honestly, I cannot know because the author did not elaborate enough on her problems in a way that made it sound less like self pity and more like genuine sadness.

Lynne Rory wrote: "Though it has been a while since I read this book, I remember only really seeing glimpses of what the author was getting at with Hannah's life. He mentioned that she recently moved to a new place a..."
Rory, it wasn't about genuine sadness nor about self-pity. Hannah gave up on herself, and the emotions tied to that are numerous and far more complex.

Savanah I absolutely loved this book because it made me want to be a better person.

Sometimes we say stuff to people without realizing the consequences of our actions and how it will affect others.

The only part that I didn't like was when she brought Clay into it. I know why she did it but I felt sorry for him and all the things that she went through were no reason to kill herself but I can understand why she did it and I thought it was a good book. I read it in less than two hours.

Margarita I understand why Hannah was so upset, but it doesn't mean that what she did was understandable. Yes she was bullied but so what? I was bullied in elementary school and even my freshman year during high school but so what? I didn't let it get to where there was no turning back. I got help, I told someone and things improved. There is help if you know who to turn to. Clearly there were people who Hannah could have talked to about what was going on with her but she didn't. She expected people to just know that she wasn't alright. She just kept it to herself and in the end, she stopped her pain but left others to carry on the guilt and tormented them in such a cruel way far more serious than what they did to her. What she did with her tapes was a cowardly move. Maybe she didn't see it that way when she was recording them but they were cruel. She was cruel and selfish and you know who suffered more in the aftermath? Her parents! I've thought about suicide myself before and even now to since I suffer from depression and also have a chronic illness but that has only made me come to despise those who take their lives as a joke. Life is precious so why end it? I'm sick and right now, the only thing I can afford to think about is trying to overcome this. Healthy people just don't appreciate life and those that are sick envy them because well, they get their whole life ahead of them and they just decide to throw it away. It's sad. I'm sorry but I couldn't sympathize with Hannah at all. It was a good story but Hannah was just selfish.

message 20: by Aria (new) - rated it 1 star

Aria I hated that she sent the tapes.

She was blaming people for her suicide, which is like blaming someone for giving you cancer.

I've been through similar issues as Hannah did and I felt like Thirteen Reasons Why mocked depression.

Jesse Beaulieu Amelia wrote: "I hated that she sent the tapes.

She was blaming people for her suicide, which is like blaming someone for giving you cancer.

I've been through similar issues as Hannah did and I felt like Thirte..."

cancer and suicide are not even close to being alike.
noone causes cancer..
suicide is caused by depression which is a disorder BUT
people can pick at you until you break.
so her killing herself because people did things to hurt and humiliate her is a realistic and sad thing
she may have been overly sesitive but thats comes with the depression sometimes

Jeffery E Doherty AgCl wrote: "i personally really don't think the reasons she mentioned were enough in reality for someone to kill himself/herself, maybe if Asher went Freudian and added something messed up about her life from ..."
People have killed themselves for less.

Lindsay I had issues with Hannah, as well. It's been a while since I read this one, so please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember her depression being a chronic condition that was evident or established in the book before all the things that happened went down (I am making this point in reference to something someone said above about depression not being cause by other: "Also, depression isn't something that is caused by people being mean. Strong healthy people could have dealt with what Hannah couldn't deal with. Hannah, however, was not a strong healthy person."). Or maybe she was just a very sensitive - I don't think this made her unhealthy, per se, just normal. If I recall, I thought she dealt with things in the beginning okay, but then things kept coming and she was overwhelmed. This treatment would get to most people.

That being said, I feel that if this suicide was due to depression/sadness at the way she was treated, it could have been dealt with a different way. But it wasn't, it was angry. Maybe I read it wrong, but her death felt a spiteful f-off, not a desperate escape. I hated the way she treated her own death - from my review:

"I found the fact that Hannah, through all her pain and desperation to end it all, found the time to plan and execute a macabre tour of the way people let her down and hurt her to be really, really sickening. I had a lot of anger towards Hannah right from the start: the teasing comments to the tapes’ recipients, the carefully planned map, the orderly and methodical way of going through her list of people and telling their parts in her story? Such things take time and planning. To me, it made Hannah’s death feel more like revenge rather than a heartbreaking out from her pain."

Madhura Margarita wrote: "I understand why Hannah was so upset, but it doesn't mean that what she did was understandable. Yes she was bullied but so what? I was bullied in elementary school and even my freshman year during ..."

Everyone here who dislikes Hannah:

Suicidal people aren't all stupid. They're aware of what they're leaving behind, and even if they're not completely aware of the effects it will have, they know that people will miss them. That's not the point: the point is that they don't care anymore, because they can't take life anymore.
The point I'm trying to make is: every person is different, and not every person is exceptionally strong. Just because someone may be weaker doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be helped, doesn't mean that they're worthless. People who call suicidal people weak- that's why so many kids refuse to tell others- they're afraid of being judged.
For anyone who says that Hannah's reasons weren't good enough- who are you to say that? Havey ou been suicidal? Or do you not recognize that people are different and reacts to things differently. Not everyone has the abilities you do.
You may not like Hannah, but what happened to her was very real, and it's time people realized that.

message 25: by Lana (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lana My biggest problem with Hannah was the last tape. She wanted her teacher to help her, but how was he supposed to know? he tried talking to her, but obviously she had already given up.

I did not hate Hannah, and yes i think she overreacted, but being her, she had every right to. Everyone experiences things differently, and even though you may not think that it is such a big deal, it could be for someone else.

And she was selfish, but that is what comes with depression. (I'm saying this as a person who used to strugle with it myself) Some deprresed people want attention, it makes them selfish, but the reason they want attention is because obviously no one is giving it to them, and they will never actually tell people they want attention because it will come of as too selfish, but they still want it. (I'm not talking about all depressed people.) Which is why I think Hannah only wanted the tapes to be within the group of people who she thought had something to do with her sucide, but she could have gotten the same kind of "revenge" if the tapes got public. She just didnt want to because she would seem too selfish.

Jeffery E Doherty Sophie wrote: "I'm just gonna apologize up front before I express my opinions about this book...okay?

This book horrified me. Look, I get she was in a bad situation, I get that problems build up over time. I e..."

No need to apologise for your opinion, Sophie. I have dealt with teen suicides and loved this book because it horrifies people. It shows how fragile some people are. If it makes even one person decide not to tease or bully someone it is worth the horror. I honestly don't think there are too many people out there cheering for Hannah or trying to be like her.


message 27: by S. (new) - rated it 5 stars

S. Cameron I hate when anyone slams the title "weak" or "selfish" on someone who has attempted or committed suicide. What bothers me the most is that people are so quick to judge someone because of how they are feeling but no one ever stops and asks that person how their day went or why they are feeling that way in the first place. People always move along as if everything is fine but then they seem completely terrified the moment someone expresses themselves. The thought of suicide is troubling enough and labeling someone as "weak" doesn't help the situation at all. Suicide is never an answer but I think the point of this book was to show people that their actions can make a huge difference and affect someone's life tremendously.

Lindsay I don't think anyone is saying Hannah was weak or selfish because she was depressed or suicidal (except for the title-maker of this thread, possibly). I think they are expressing anger and dismay at her actions immediately before she committed suicide, namely the tapes, map, etc.

The other issue you bring up is that once a depressed person reaches a certain point, they sometimes don't notice people asking them how they are. I am not saying this as a putdown, but there does come a point where only professional help can help the person successfully fight the depression (with support of family and friends, of course).

message 29: by Dandan83 (new)

Dandan83 Any one gonna talk about how Hannah allowed a girl to get raped, a girl that she blamed her suicide on and a girl who would probably on found out about said rape because the tapes and also didn't even have the decency to reveal who the girl's rapist was. Anyone... no.

message 30: by ****Kelly***** (last edited May 24, 2016 03:34PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

****Kelly***** The Writing Reader wrote: "I'm just gonna apologize up front before I express my opinions about this book...okay?

This book horrified me. Look, I get she was in a bad situation, I get that problems build up over time. I eve..."

deleted user wrote: "Plus maybe Hannah was mentally ill and wasn't able to get over things like that."G

To be honest, I hope she was mentally ill. I don't think anyone in their right mind would actually
1) make her "killers" listen to her spill dirt on the rest of the "killers
2) threaten to have their secrets out (though they may have deserved it)
3) make someone who did absolutely nothing wrong but hey you know he was part of the story so we should him go through emotional trauma
4) the guidance counselor didn't seem to know how to help her because SHE WASNT TALKING. YES SHE SAID THE PROBLEM BUT SHE SURE WASNT HELPING HIM FIND A SOLUTION!! Seriously i felt like the conversation went like:
Mr. Porter- what's the matter?
hannah- I feel lost
Mr porter- how come?
Hannah- rumors and this senior
Mr porter- are you going to do anything about it?
Hannah- no
Mr porter- then I guess you have to move on and not dwell on it
Hannah- NO YOU DONT UNDERSTAND *leaves the room*
Hannah said that she was giving life one last chance but she sure wasn't giving it one! It was like talking to one of those sad people who say stuff like "ask me why I'm sad" and when you ask them they say "nothing just you know..."
I think it's not a matter of people being quick to judge. Some people who are depressed want to hide their pain and pretend like everything is ok and people don't question it. I not depressed and have never been so I'm not sure if suicide is selfish and weak but Hannah sure was at least a little bit.

I probably didn't do a good job on explain how I feel but the bottom line is this: if you are depressed, find help and help that person find you help. Life is an amazing thing and just because you are depressed now doesn't mean you will be forever. Suicide isn't answer. Yes it will get you out of your current situation but it means you will never experience the other happier situations. Also, as you have learned from this book, it means that the people who love you will never forgive themselves for not knowing what was going on in your head.

message 31: by Cara (new) - rated it 2 stars

Cara Well,

I just finished 13 Reasons Why and at first, I was all about feeling for Hannah Baker. I wanted to punch Justin Foley and smack Bryce Walker really hard.
But as the story progressed and secrets were revealed, I realized that it was partly Hannah's fault.
She's not the only person who's been through this stuff, what about Tyler? And Skye? And every other victim of bullying?
Hadn't we all survived it?
I do agree that what Bryce, Justin, Alex and every other person did to Hannah was unjustifiable and horrendous...but Hannah was no brave, true person either.
As much as the rest of Liberty High were heartless, entertainment-seekers, Hannah was a scared, stupid girl who only thought about her friends and her social life.

Did she think about what would happen to her parents after she went? Did she think about what would happen to Clay? She's not the only girl who suffers through tough guy problems, and in comparison to the rest, Clay was definitely a sweet heart.
Or, at least he tried to be.

No judgement passed but I didn't like the show very well.

My opinion.

message 32: by Millicent (new)

Millicent I despised the book, not because I think suicide is a sign of weakness, but rather because the writing was awful. It could have been written better, with the topics and themes executed in a way that profoundly emphasized the pain that comes before and after a life is lost to suicide.

Instead, the book trivializes that pain and writes about it in such a way that does not reflect and learn from that pain, but instead dwells on it.

I understand that teenage depression is excruciating, in all its shapes and forms. However, the book did not directly imply that Hannah suffered from a mental illness. It simply perpetuated this notion that she was a person who suffered at the hands of her peers, without delving substantially into any of the real "reasons why" she killed herself. It left a lot to the imagination, and not in a good way. It wasn't meant to be thought provoking, it was just poorly written.

It is a shame this is promoted and praised for being literature for teens about suicide, because Camus' Myth of Sissyphus is a far better read. Though this book is meant to garner understanding for voiceless and suffering teens, it instead encourages them to dwell or become defeated by their anguish. If this were about her depression, I would understand how much harder it would be for Hannah to overcome her internal suffering. But clearly the book was not about depression, but about a vindictive last laugh via suicide. And that is awful in itself. It's not Hannah's fault she was written so poorly, it's the writing that perpetuates her permeating and undeniable selfishness which ultimately leads to her death.

In some ways the book was good, but in a lot of ways it was terrible. The flawed characters are welcome in other scenarios, but here the flaw protrudes and hinders any hope there is of obtaining meaning from this book. Hannah was portrayed in a way that betrayed her and her own suffering, accidentally reducing her to a selfish and validation-seeking girl who's high expectations of reality ultimately turned to disappointment she could not handle. While many events in her life were surely awful, they were rendered insignificant by how the book presented them. Hannah was unfortunately born into the pages of the novel, a selfish character who met a selfish demise and continued to allow others to suffer with her. Definitely not something to praise in a book.

I feel awful for her character, but it's the writing that does her injustice, not her circumstances.

Amber Rodgers I think everyone is thinking along the lines of Hannah being an adult or able to think like one when she was only in the early stages of being a teenager. Everyone handles pain and trauma differently and while some of these issues may seem trivial to a lot of people, I can empathize with her where it all got to be too much. Hannah even said in the book, she didn't know what was going to happen next. I wouldn't want to live with that way of thinking either. I think the book was written in a way to appeal to young adult readers, so I don't think it was a bad thing that is was written in a juvenile way.

I think Hannah left the tapes because she wanted the kids to know that what they did to her was not in any way okay and to prevent them from acting this way to the next person. I do not agree with the comments that Hannah killing herself was selfish at all because when you're depressed you don't think about anyone else because you feel like you have no one else. It's a MENTAL ILLNESS! She felt like her parents couldn't do anything for her because she didn't know how to reach out.

And as far as Mr. Porter, he wasn't trying to help Hannah, you never tell a kid to just get over something and move on, especially when they've already told you they've thought about ending their life.

My personal opinion, but I think everyone who read the book doesn't fully understand what having a mental illness is truly like.

Kellina I think Hannah is anything, but weak. A lot of people want to kill themselves, and to actually accomplish that is remarkable. I completely understand people's points of her not wanting to deal with her own reality, but I have to say I really enjoyed Hannah's story over all. I think it is also very important to understand that Hannah had a mental illness that she could not control.

Diane I completely disagree. Hannah's suicide was a result of depression, which you never should have to justify since it is a mental disorder and is never anybody's fault. Also, a lot of her reasons were pretty understandable. She got judged based on things that were completely okay and sometimes not even her doing. People need to understand that you don't have a reason to have depression. It happens to anybody in any situation, even if it seems like they're living the best life possible.

message 36: by Maryam (new)

Maryam Javaid Ruth wrote: "Heaven,

I agree. I didn't hate her, I just didn't like her. She didn't have much introspection on the events of her life.

It's hard to talk about because she was obviously mentally ill. I don't ..."

I completely agree

message 37: by Maryam (new)

Maryam Javaid Preston wrote: "I agree with a lot of what Hannah (message 14) said except, "Readers should see that what Hannah did was heroic. She tried to give people a lesson in being more self aware. Not many people get that..."

Yes, I hated her too for this reason only. If you're not going to take control of your life, other people will love to control it for you and that's what happened to Hannah

Myrthe Van Driessche i don't think you can call her weak i mean put yourself in her position, and suicide isn't only about the events that took place i think that she felt like she couldn't do anything good for other people and she felt very lonely there are so many factors that made her decide but it's a story and yes i know there are people who took there lifes the same way as Hannah with the tapes

Ngitheni-ambrosia Nkomo I'm shocked that no one else is talking about how Hannah included someone and then let her get raped. The girl now has to deal with "causing" Hannah's death AND that she was raped? And that Hannah could've stopped it but didn't? I honestly think that could trigger her own path to depression. And that would've been a better read

Rawan Honestly, the idea of the book is ok. BUT, Hannah herself is a very annoying person. I mean, some people were blamed for very stupid things, but the fact that they are included in the tapes will make them feel guilty forever (they were the reason for a person's suicide). Plus, Hannah wants people to understand by there own peripheral mind that she is going through bad times. Girl, you didn't openly share your feelings and you're expecting everyone to be aware of it as if the whole school has nothing to worry about except you? (This can be clearly seen especially in the tapes for Clay and her counselor -- the last tape) So, basically, as some people said earlier, Hannah is very immature, and she just killed herself and let other people, several who didn't do harsh damage to her, carry the guilt for life. That's basically why I didn't like the story; Hannah's character is bad.

Another thing that came to my attention is that some of Hannah's reasons are very trivial, and readers who are on the verge of committing suicide or actually thinking of it will be aware of more problems that encounter them and that in return will give them even the more reasons to kill themselves.

I don't know, that's my opinion.

message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

Everything I thought about the book, in numbered format, because my eyes are getting tired of seeing long paragraphs:
1. Hannah was NOT selfish by killing herself.
2. Hannah went through shit. Complete and utter shit. She was bullied. She was raped. She was lied to. Her best friend kept secrets from her and treated her like crap. She was made fun of. Rumors were spread about her.
3. A sequel should come out, with chapters from perspectives of the different people on the tapes. No more Hannah perspectives. No more Clay perspectives.
4. She wasn't weak. She tried her best to deal with everything. She tried to talk to the people starting the rumors. She confronted people. Nothing worked. I'm not saying suicide was the only option left. I'm saying suicide wasn't Hannah's only action taken concerning everything.
5. The book was good. It left an impact on me. It connected to me. It was a good book.

Zahra I wouldn't say Hannah was weak or selfish. Mental illness is a hard thing to cope with especially if you don't have anyone to talk to and for her, the only way out was to kill herself, which is not the way to go. I just want to say, that maybe she felt like she and others who deal with mental illness, feel like that's the only option, but getting help is also an option and living your life the right way will make you happy. Getting help, gets you to having a better life and the one you deserve.
Hannah was not selfish by killing herself. People may argue that because she didn't consider her friends and family and how they're going to feel, but what about how she felt? Obviously people didn't know about what she was going through and that's the thing, you ever know what people are going through. That's why it's important to be kind and caring for others. Hannah tortured people after her death because she wanted to tell them that they were the reason she died and she could blame someone for her death. Honestly, the only person to blame for her death is Hannah, but the people to blame for her suffering and what bought her to think that the only way out was to kill herself were those people, on the tapes, except of course Clay. I feel like she kind of blamed him for her death because he didn't express how he felt, the fact that he liked her and stuff. That's basically a lack of love that she felt and not Clay's fault. He shouldn't have been on the tape because it's selfish to blame everyone for the reason she died. I think, entirely, she felts a lack of love from her friends, family, society and that produced her suffering.

message 43: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara Kind of. Like the reasons why she killed herself are really dumb, if you think about it. But, like a lot of people here is saying, maybe she was mentally ill and she couldn´t get past those kind of things.

message 44: by Jodi (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jodi Mullins I absolutely hated this book. I read it after hearing all the hype and found it to be stupid and unrealistic. I've worked with dysfunctional teens for years and found her reasons and the tapes and all of it to be self serving for the author to pull on emotions and make money. Yes, Hannah went through some horrible stuff. Yes, in some ways she was bullied. The prefrontal cortex of the brain, the part that deals with decision making, being able to weigh out consequences and impulsivity doesn't fully form until people are in their early to mid 20s. So the actions of the people she left tapes to (with the exception of those who had sex with the drunk girl which is criminal and there is no excusing) are really in line with the stupid things teens do. As far as the teacher at the end not intervening, what is a male teacher to do? If he asks too many personal questions, it can be taken the wrong way. In reality, teachers, especially those of opposite gender, aren't going to be too attuned to these possibilities unless they have a close relationship with a student. No one really expects the possibility of a student being suicidal. I think the issues began and ended with Hannah, who needed some serious intervention she, unfortunately, never received before she ended her life. I just feel like the author did not do his homework for this book and produced something that would play on the emotions of those who have been bullied and the people who love them.

message 45: by Maddy (new) - rated it 1 star

Maddy Johnson I'm not a big fan of the book. As someone who's been suicidal and is dealing with mental issues, this book isn't a realistic representation of it.
First of all, they never deal with the topic of depression. Yes, there are multiple hints and situations throughout the novel where Hannah has shown symptoms of depression, however I don't think the word depression was said once in the entire novel. The author never tackled the issue of depression and how it can impact someones wellbeing. Hannah's mental state was clearly not okay, considering how some mundane things caused her to kill herself. Mental illness can definitely affect how you react to situations, but it was just left unsaid and they never went into detail, or even mentioned for that matter, about how Hannah's depression affected her.
Next, the whole tape thing. Honestly, I don't know what the point of the tapes were. Yes, it makes a good plot, however it's extremely unrealistic and blatantly selfish. It does not make Hannah a likeable character at all. Throughout the novel, we're supposed to feel bad for Hannah and sympathise with her, however it made it very difficult for me to even like her as a whole. It made it seem like a game to her, all the rules and how the tapes work. It made it seem like the whole concept of her suicide was only for revenge on the people who made her life miserable, which is beyond messed up. The people included in the tapes, some who did virtually nothing (Clay), are put in a position where they're going to have to live with the fact that they caused another girl's suicide for the rest of their lives.
As much as I dislike the novel, and the show, I appreciate people attempting to spread awareness on the topic of suicide, as it is rarely spoken about. If Jay Asher had portrayed it right, then I feel as if this book would've been extremely impactful and amazing. If you are struggling with mental illness, please get help. You deserve to live.

message 46: by Jodi (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jodi Mullins Maddy, I really like your response. Suicide is among the leading causes of death worldwide, and in some countries the leading cause, among teens roughly 13 -19, depending on who is reporting the statistics. It is a very serious issue. I think that this is why I didn't like the way the whole thing was portrayed in the book, for all the reasons you list and more. I work with dysfunctional teens, many of whom have been depressed or suicidal in the past or are currently having these issues. Having the experience that I have with these kids, I really didn't like the author's portrayal of Hannah or her actions at all.

Leianne Stevens What most people tend to forget is that everyone has a different pain threshold. Not just physical pain, but mental anguish can go a long way. What we would die for and what someone else would will always be totally different. When you feel alone and have no help - despite having reached out for it - you can go to a place where it feels like death is the only way out. Judging a victim of suicide is just wrong on all counts. How would you feel if Hannah was your friend, sister, daughter? Would you think she was weak and just gave up?

message 48: by Jodi (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jodi Mullins It's not that Hannah gave up is my issue. I felt that her use of the tapes were crap. Her expectations, with the exception of the sexual abuse, were crap. Her "calling out" different people was just unrealistic and stupid. I work with teens who are suicidal and engage in self harming behaviors. It pisses me off that this author writes this piece of crap book which pulls on the heart strings and emotions of many and makes money off of it, but it really doesn't address the problem. Kids are often mean in school. They are making poor decisions that often hurt others. It's part of the whole growing up process, dealing with conflict.

Aaliyah Fentress its been a long time since I read the book but I didn't like her. she came off as the type of girl that couldn't handle it if someone wasn't nice to her.putting clay in the middle of it and haunting him with the tapes was ridiculous. with most of the people she should have stood up for herself or transferred to another school. she couldn't handle anything bad and instead of dealing with her problems she killed herself and blamed it on other people. she was depressed and looking for justification to kill herself. she obviously didn't have a problem with people knowing what happen so why didn't she tell someone and get help

message 50: by Asal (new) - rated it 5 stars

Asal Hell No!!!she wasn’t selfish at all...She just couldn’t handle the things going around...And whwn she can’t trust anyone what should she do?..others could have had helped her,,but they just made everything worse..I’m not saying that suicide is good thing no not at all...but I don’t blame her...Well I expected others to help her..How in the world they didn’t get that she was in a bad situation..depression has many obvious signs...Afterall i must say that others must have had payed more attention to her..She definitely needed that.

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