World Peace discussion

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antiwar/nonviolence reading group

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message 1: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:37PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) I was thinking of starting a group on here for discussing & sharing anti-war/nonviolent/peace books.

I'm not really interested in political discussion, but talking about antiwar literature is a way into the conversation.

Then I saw this group and wondered if this might be a place for that to happen.

Is anyone interested in that kind of discussion? Is this group a place for that or should I start a new group?


Jason


message 2: by Shelagh (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:38PM) (new)

Shelagh | 2 comments Hi Jason,

I am interested in your topic. I think you might want to start your own group because this one is very focused on politics. I think the discussion does not match the name of the group, actually.

Maybe you could call your group Nonviolence, unless something else like that already exists, I don't know.

Have you read "Hell Healing and Resistance: Veterans Speak" by Daniel William Hallock and "Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life" by Marshall Rosenberg?

Shelagh


message 3: by Enespaniol (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:38PM) (new)

Enespaniol | 23 comments The peace is a politic. The anti-war position is a politic, my dear friends...


message 4: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:39PM) (new)

Héctor Yes, Jason... why not?


message 5: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:39PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) Enespaniol,

I think there's some confusion caused by the word "politics" having two different but frequently used definitions.

One definition is "the total complex of relations between people living in society".

Another definition is "competition between competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as in a government)".

When I said I was not really interested in political discussions, I was using the second definition.


Jason


message 6: by SYED (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:39PM) (new)

SYED | 30 comments Mod
carry on


message 7: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:39PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) Shelagh,

"Nonviolence" would be a great name for a group.

But I don't want to start a whole other group if it's not necessary.

I skimmed through some of the recent discussion threads and can see what you mean about it being very focused on politics.

But the discussion also seems rather civil. And I bet we can add to the discussion with something different. I'd like to try it and see how it goes.

I have not read the Daniel William book but it sounds interesting. I did read the NVC book and it had a great impact on me. I actually met Marshall Rosenberg a few months ago at a weekend long workshop on nonviolent communication. He's a very funny, tender, strong man.


Jason


message 8: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:39PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) Thanks, SYED.

By the way, I tried looking up the "Superman in Islam" book on your favorite list but couldn't find it. It sounds like something I'd like to read. Who's the author? What's it about?


Jason


message 9: by Enespaniol (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Enespaniol | 23 comments But "competition between competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as in a government)" is part of "the total complex of relations between people living in society". Or not, Jason?


message 10: by Doug (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Doug | 1 comments Shelagh, Jason,

I would enjoy being part of a group on works on "Nonviolence". I agree it should be a seperate group. It could be a popular group! I know a couple of people who might be interested in joining. :)Doug


message 11: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Héctor What do you think, Shelagh, Jason, Doug, about this Marshall Rosenberg quote on 9/11?

"To create short-term safety, we will need to protect ourselves from further threat. This may include actions taken in, what I call, the “protective use of force.” We may need to capture and imprison the perpetrators so that they cannot attack us again. And we may even have to kill some of them if we can't otherwise restrain them."

In cnvc founder marshall rosenberg’s response to the events of september 11, 2001

Nonviolent Communication? A Language of Life?. The problem is to identify the perpetrators.


message 12: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) enespaniol,

You are correct that "competing interest groups" is a subset of "the total complex". But it is only a subset.

For example, "hamburgers" are a subset of "food". Someone may not want to eat hamburgers but still may eat food.




Jason


message 13: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) Hector,

What do I think? I think just about any quote can be taken out of context and misrepresented.

In this case of Rosenberg's statement (and his communication model), the emphasis isn't on specific actions but on intention. It is clear in the statement that he isn't arguing whether the US should invade or not invade Afghanistan. Rather he is expressing the hope that which ever action would be taken it would have the intention of peace and safety.

Personally, I don't agree with everything Rosenberg says. I don't think I agree with everything anyone says (including myself).

The above statement, as well as a chapter in his book called "The Protective Use of Force" are not totally in line with my own views. But I do think his communication model is effective towards creating a more peaceful world.



Jason


message 14: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Héctor When Mr. Rosenberg says "protective use of force" (in the context of the events of september 11, 2001), he is proposing a political answer to the violence. A "legitimate" violence of the State. The legitimacy of such violence, Jason, is what we are discussing in this group.


message 15: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) hector,


As I said, I don't agree with Rosenberg's views on "protective use of force", even though I think his NVC model is effective.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a political answer".

Jason


message 16: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) Doug, Shelagh,

Both of you have been here at least a couple of months longer than I. And you suggest starting a new group. So I think it might be a good idea.

But do you think it's essential to start such a group or would you be willing to give it a go here?



Jason


message 17: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Héctor "Political answer", Jason, refers to Mr. Rosenberg´s State invocation to solve problems of violence. According I read, your "protective use of force" is inseparable from his theory (NVC Model). I think that the States, more than the people, need a cure.


message 18: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) Hector,

Sorry if I'm being dense but I'm not sure what you mean.

What are you referring to when you say "your protective force"? And why do you think it is inseparable from the NVC model?

I'm also unclear on what you mean by "States, more than the people, need a cure".


But that might be a discussion to have at another time. The reason I started this post was to ask about an antiwar literature reading group.

Would you be interested such a group? Do you think it is something we could do as part of this group?





Jason


message 19: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:40PM) (new)

Héctor The political class needs this program!! Welcome to this group, Jason!!


message 20: by Jason (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:43PM) (new)

Jason (jasonfmcdaniel) Thanks to you all for the replies to my question about a nonviolent/antiwar literature group.

Because the focus of this World Peace group seems more broad than the discussion I was interested in, I've created a group called Nonviolence Reading Group.

It is my hope that the discussion will focus on books, especially but not limited to fiction that promote values of peace and nonviolence.

Everyone is welcome to join. Please post and share relevant books and other info.



Jason


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