City of Glass (The Mortal Instruments, #3) City of Glass discussion


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Sebastian Verlac/Jonathan Christopher Morgenstern

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Daniela-Goddess of Reading I really think something is wrong with me. I don't know why, but I kind of like Sebastian Verlac's character.

I have a question. When Sebastian takes Carly to see Ragnor Fell and kisses her, do you guys think that he has some sort of demented feelings for his sister? I mean he has demon blood and demons want, and in the City of Fallen Angels at the end of the book, he somehow is in control of Jace, inside his head, and then the story ends with a cliff hanger.It sort of makes me wonder.

I can't wait to see with CC goes with this.


esthermarie I don't think he has wierd feeling for Clary, (but I may be wrong) Sebeastian is part demon, but he is also part human, and maybe that human part wants to see Clary as his sister. (?)

I agree, I kinda like Sebastian too. I think its because he's sort of a tragic character, and its not his fault he's part demon. He was brought up by evil Valintine, and both Jace and Sebastian both seem sorta worse for wear because of it. In CoG, Sebastain also complains of always being compared to Jace. That couldn't be easy!

Anyway, I get what you are saying, and you can completely disregard this, 'cause it probably doesn't make any sense!


Daniela-Goddess of Reading Um...Yeah, when I was reading CoG, I couldn't help but think, poor Sebastian...he had no choice to what had been done to him as an infant.
I also couldn't help think what he would have been like as a normal shadow hunter. Would he have been as charming as he pretended to be? IDK.


Arushi now. you bring up a good question. would sebastian have been appealing as a normal shadowhunter?

i kinda liked him on the cover, but i still think patch (hush hush) is muuuuuch hotter :D


Claire Lisa wrote: "now. you bring up a good question. would sebastian have been appealing as a normal shadowhunter?

i kinda liked him on the cover, but i still think patch (hush hush) is muuuuuch hotter :D"


No, the whole bad boy/mysterious thing makes him much more appealing.


Erika Cassie wrote this today in her tumbrl about Sebastian:

"He’s capable of complex thoughts and complex decisions. He gets jealous and angry when Clary implies Valentine cared about Jace. He gets upset when Clary pushes him away. He says to his father “I hoped she would be more like me.” Real demons don’t hope — well, not for anything besides TOTAL WORLD DESTRUCTION anyway (...) , with his reactions toward Clary and Valentine, which are not entirely destructive and demonic, that he is hoping for connection: that even Sebastian can be lonely. Whether being lonely is enough to redeem someone who has done such terrible things, well that’s another thing entirely."


Lupita i love sabastian i think cc is going make him be a "good"person or at least i hope so


Daniela-Goddess of Reading Me too. I totally love Sebastian as well.
xD


Daniela-Goddess of Reading Wow! He looks even hotter! I can'y wait til the next book comes out.


Nicole I think that a lot of this series has to do with our ability to make a choice between good and evil despite where you come from...maybe she will give Sebastian the opportunity to choose the right thing...or maybe his demon blood will eventually burn out his humanity as is predicted by the demon Valentine received the blood from to begin with...hmmm..


message 11: by Daniela-Goddess of Reading (last edited Nov 22, 2011 12:33PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daniela-Goddess of Reading You may be on to something....


Kinga I liked Sebastian character before I heard that he;s actual a negative person. I actually hope for him to be good in the end. I want him to be part of the story <3


message 13: by Laerke (new)

Laerke I liked him, too. He was a good bad character, if that makes sense.


Daniela-Goddess of Reading Yeah....see I knew there were others who felt the same way.I too do not want Sebastian to be a bad guy.


Nurlely Sebastian is the bad guy. We already have Jace as a hero with complicated problems (the last one was created by Sebastian) and Simon who will always be in love with Clary. Having Sebastian as the good one will be too crowded and will make the series more a romance series rather that the usual outstanding fantasy series. Sebastian probably will come to his human side when he is about to die. Before that, his evil side will be the winner. Sebastian is a natural evil. I love him as the evil one (I want him to die too).


Veronica I don't like that character. He's evil by whatever name called.


message 17: by Lily (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lily You know in City of glass, Sebastian loses he's hand... Had Lillith given him it back, or what?


Daniela-Goddess of Reading I wonder that too as well....kind of disgusting.


message 19: by Daniela-Goddess of Reading (last edited Dec 14, 2011 06:27AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daniela-Goddess of Reading Noor *SPARTAN'S RULE!!!!!!!!!!!* wrote: "I don't think he is gonna be a bad guy cause I looked at some teasers for CoLS and he's...ok.


http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5..."


That's pretty interesting.


Nurlely I think it is rather surprising that the super powerful bitch Lilith can meet her demise that way. Yes, the evil lost to Heaven but she was written as the dark-side-almighty and then blar! Gone...

I really hope City of Lost Soul can be much better than City of Fallen Angel. I am a bit disappointed with CoFA. Nothing new with the plot and Jace has to face the difficulties...Again!


Daisy sanchez I love Sebastian, dont know why everyone thinks im crazy because i like him


Daisy sanchez Ikr what is there not to like about him?


Daisy sanchez Thats what I say, I want City of Lost Souls to be out all ready.


message 24: by Nurlely (last edited Dec 13, 2011 08:35PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nurlely Sebastian must die by the end of the story. He will come to his senses and sacrifices himself for Jace's life. Jace will be more than happy to die for someone else for he has the best heart. But Jace will not die. Having him tormented with another pain is killing me...


Nurlely That is the beginning of the new plot (although it is not that new) for City of Fallen Angels. Things are to change through the series. If Jace can be Clary's brother and later not Clary's, and human Simon to vampire Simon, Sebastian can also be good and when his evil part which is attached to Jace is gone, he can die without dragging Jace along.

Surely you can agree or disagree with my theory. I will find anyone who just says "No" without submitting any ideas interesting. Why so serious?


Daniela-Goddess of Reading Nurlely wrote: "That is the beginning of the new plot (although it is not that new) for City of Fallen Angels. Things are to change through the series. If Jace can be Clary's brother and later not Clary's, and hum..."

That's an interesting idea there, Nurlely!
xD


message 27: by Daniela-Goddess of Reading (last edited Dec 14, 2011 10:26AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Daniela-Goddess of Reading Nurlely wrote: "That is the beginning of the new plot (although it is not that new) for City of Fallen Angels. Things are to change through the series. If Jace can be Clary's brother and later not Clary's, and hum..."

Also have you seen the want to be cover??
Check it out here.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b221OrZxFSY...

Sebastian eyes are green....so he must be good.


message 28: by Lily (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lily Who made it?
it's kinda Prof...


Marie-Line Dupere Did anybody forget that he KILLED a child, a yound innocent child, I liked his caracter and where it could go before I realized that much.

I think he will be around for a while, his jealousy towards Jace and Clary, not as a couple but individual is getting to him. The other he was constantly being compared to, his hidden sister that had a better upbringing. I must say, I prefer TID much more.


Daniela-Goddess of Reading Noor *I Have No Hope* wrote: "that's fan made it's not the actual cover..."

What a relief...the more I thought that was the official cover the more freaking out I would have been...thanks goodness...it's just that looking at that cover made my eyes hurt to bright and weird looking...but it's a start.


Kinga Nurlely wrote: "That is the beginning of the new plot (although it is not that new) for City of Fallen Angels. Things are to change through the series. If Jace can be Clary's brother and later not Clary's, and hum..."

Yes, I kind of agree with you. I also think that Sebastian or is gonna kill himself, gonna die a tragic death or after turning good he will sacrifice himself? Well, hope dies last...


Nurlely Daniela wrote: "Also have you seen the want to be cover??
Check it out here.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b221OrZxFSY/Tn...

Sebastian eyes are green....so he must be good. "


I hope so too, but I care most about Jace's fate.
About the cover...Ugh... I am not so excited about it. I still think that the first trilogy's covers are the best. I do not like the idea of having real persons on the cover. It really kills my imagination.


Nurlely Xzellaz wrote: "Yes, I kind of agree with you. I also think that Sebastian or is gonna kill himself, gonna die a tragic death or after turning good he will sacrifice himself? Well, hope dies last......"

I think dead is the best for Sebastian. He is not some kind of a good guy being driven by the evil Lilith. He posses her blood and made into a demon. And he killed without any remorse. Sebastian can have his good moments too, but he should be dead by the end of the story.


message 34: by Lily (last edited Dec 17, 2011 04:06AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lily I don't see anything good about Sebastian.
If you haven't forgot he killed Max
I definitely hope that he dies in the end of the book.
Because he is the villain in TMI, and he doesn't deserve living or suddenly turning good... He is evil, he kills, and he possess Jace...:-(
Poor Jace.


message 35: by Mia (new)

Mia if lilith can bring back sebastian once with Jace dying and coming back, why cant another evil greater thingymabbobber bring him back again? I mean, i happen to like sebastian, but i do NOT know why he wants clary. hes an evil example of "Never getting what i want." I mean, all of his evil plans seem like a huge temper tantrum. I think its kind of funny. but, its stil a really good book. Is there going to be a sixth book?


EvaCatReads City Of Lost Souls...


Nicole Mia wrote: "if lilith can bring back sebastian once with Jace dying and coming back, why cant another evil greater thingymabbobber bring him back again? I mean, i happen to like sebastian, but i do NOT know wh..."

Yes, City of Heavenly Fire


Taryn Honestly, Jonathan Christopher Morgenstern is my favourite character.And I feel bad for him.It's not his fault that he has demon blood, and I hate Jocelyn for hating Jonathan right when he was born. I mean come on lady, however he may be, he's still your son. And did anyone ever think that maybe he wouldn't be like this;evil and ruthless, if he grew up with a mother? Valentine probably drilled it into his head when he was old enough to talk, that "hey son, your mother hates your guts just because you exist!" He also only had his father to look up to, and we all know that Valentine isn't the best when it comes to NOT corrupting your son. I think that if Jocelyn tries to understand, he'll probably come around. He probably just wants a mother.


georgia Mia wrote: "if lilith can bring back sebastian once with Jace dying and coming back, why cant another evil greater thingymabbobber bring him back again? I mean, i happen to like sebastian, but i do NOT know wh..."
yep, Cassandra is writing the sixth one now, and I think its going to be released around 2014.


message 40: by Nur (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nur I sort of liked Sebastian/Jonathan but then he went all psycho and tried to kiss his sister; because they have the same blood running through their veins???

soo right now im not team Sebastian but it might change,, cant wait till CITY OF HEAVENLY FIRE


Keiley I think we need to draw the line between liking a character and believing he's a good person. Because I do love Sebastian/Jonathan quite a lot, he's a fascinating character and his interactions with both Clary and Jace are borderline delicious to read. But I don't believe he's a good person, at all.

Though some thought has to be given to the fact that he wasn't raised in the way he should have been. He is not a human being, nor is he the average Shadowhunter, so I think that needs to be taken into account. He's demonic, literally, demons live upon sin, lust, greed, wrath, all of those things that are supposed to be bad, that's what Valentine did to him before he was even born. He made him into something less than human, but still above being a true demon. We don't know the full affects of the demon blood in him, we don't know how much of his life, his mind, his development has been shaped and warped by it.

Beyond that, he was raised by an evil megalomaniac mad man who wanted to inflict pain and suffering on just about everyone. When you're raised by a violent sadistic mastermind who wants to conquer the world, you aren't going to turn out being a humanitarian, that's for sure.

Combine these two factors and you have an almost reasonable explanation as to why he is the way he is. He had his humanity taken from him before he could even comprehend what it meant to have humanity, and was raised in a completely toxic environment. No, I don't think any of what he did was right, but yes, I can understand why he turned out the way he did.

And as for his relationship with Clary, I view it as what's left of his human side craving love. He's never been loved or cherished in his life, no one has ever truly cared about him. But Clary is his sister, his blood, someone who by most societal norms should love him, so naturally he'd reach out to her of all people. She is after all the only remaining member of his family who doesn't loathe him. But add in the fact that he is a barely human Shadowhunter-Demon half blood who was raised in an environment where love was a very warped concept, and you've got someone who really has no idea how to go about any sort of relationship with anyone.

But yeah, I like him because he's interesting, he's a good CHARACTER not a good PERSON.


message 42: by Nurlely (last edited Nov 20, 2012 11:22PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nurlely Sebastian is a bad person. When he was still a fetus, Valentine 'added or mixed' the demon blood to him, to make him a better shadowhunter (supposedly). Valentine regretted his action when he found out that Sebastian is evil, and decided to add the angel blood to Jace as his next project.

Sebastian died once, and brought back to life with Lilith's soul. That has perfected his evil self.

I think if Sebastian still has his humane side, it was probably because he has Jocelyn as his mother and Valentine as his father. Valentine might be the super bad daddy, but he was once a good shadowhunter.

Maybe Sebastian will come to his good side, on his dying bed.


message 43: by J.D. (new) - rated it 5 stars

J.D. Field He's gonna get killed. there's only one way that's gonna go. Jace is going to cut his heart out...


message 44: by Jennifer (last edited Nov 21, 2012 07:36AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jennifer Sebastian: mmmm. i love him. he is sexy and manly and everything, but something is wrong with him to fall in love with his own sister and he knew that she was his sister but he still kissed her when they first met. disgusting. but i still like him.

Jace: know were talking. jace is sexy, adorable, and fuuny. no word can describe him. he is so amazing and such a HERO.


Nurlely J.D. wrote: "He's gonna get killed. there's only one way that's gonna go. Jace is going to cut his heart out..."

I also think Sebastian will die by the end of the book. Jace or anyone else can cut his life off. If even the evil Valentine felt very wrong about him, then Sebastian must die and go back to his perfect domain, hell forever.


message 46: by Renee (new)

Renee I think Jonathan has weird feelings for clary because he wants what he can't have and he is obviously jealous of jace.


Taryn Keiley wrote: "I think we need to draw the line between liking a character and believing he's a good person. Because I do love Sebastian/Jonathan quite a lot, he's a fascinating character and his interactions wit..."

You go girl. I agree with everything you just said. Sebastian is not a good person because of his actions, but I believe that he should be given a second chance. I strongly believe that he CAN be good. I hope he does. I can only hope and pray because BY THE ANGEL he is my FAVOURITE character besides Alec, Magnus and Simon


Taryn Gabrielle wrote: "I will cry if Sebastian died!! He's like one of my favuraties and I dont want him to turn good - i just want him to be accepted for who he is.

Like being part demon is his identy like maybe his bo..."


Touché. As for the "good" part, I hope he'll at least not be as detached from his humanity


Taryn Renee wrote: "I think Jonathan has weird feelings for clary because he wants what he can't have and he is obviously jealous of jace."

I like Keiley's explanation WAAAYYYY better


Brittney I think he does have some sick feelings for her. The demon side that is. I think the human side just wants a family and Clary os his sister so he wants her near him and believes he's untitled to keep her with him. That's just my theory.


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