Haruki Murakami's "1Q84" discussion

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"Q"-world

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message 1: by Stephen M (new)

Stephen M | 11 comments As usual with Murakami, I've been puzzling over this story quite a bit.
I'm at page 243 at the moment. So spoiler alert and everything.

I'm sure that more connections will come together, but so far I am thinking that somehow Air Chrysalis either directly effects Q world or is connected somehow. There are two moons on both and the Fuka-Eri character has a doppelganger of her ten-year old self in Q-world. Could they be the same person but in different time periods somehow? Do you think that the Tengo and Aomame stories are happening at the same time?

If you are at about the same place as me, what are your thoughts? Or if you're further ahead and know more, what did you think at this point? (ch.19 Book 1)

I'd also like this post to be open to any Q-world thoughts, observances or overall thematic meaning.


message 2: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments I think that I also thought there was something between the two girls. With the novel being so long you sometimes forget things easily and what I love about the author is that he reminds you through out the book the important points so that you are not questioning what you are reading. He reminds you of the things that make you say "oh that's the connection" I am so close to the end and its already midnight will I sleep tonight?


Joselito Honestly and Brilliantly (joselitohonestlyandbrilliantly) I can't participate in the discussion yet because i haven't seen a copy of this anywhere here in my place yet. Will do once I get hold of one and manage to read it.


message 4: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
Parallel worlds, two moons, twins, doppelganger.

The power of two.

Sounds like he's up to his usual tricks!


message 5: by Ian (last edited Oct 31, 2011 12:21PM) (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
Sorry that I'm a bit slow, but it just dawned on me that the lower case "Q" ("q")(which is not used in the title of the book) looks a bit like a "9" anyway.

So here's some stupid speculation:

Is "Q" a pathway between the parallel worlds of alphabetical and numeral systems?

What about "I" and "1", both of which express a primacy of sorts?

And "O" and "0" (zero)?


message 6: by Megha (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) Based on the few chapters I have read so far, 'Q' stands for question mark. '1Q84' is the year which is mostly like 1984, but not quite. The inexplicable things are marked by this 'Q'.

Yes, he is very much up to his usual tricks. There is also a loner guy hanging out with a strange teenage girl.


message 7: by Stephen M (new)

Stephen M | 11 comments Ian wrote: "Is "Q" a pathway between the parallel worlds of alphabetical and numeral systems?
"


That is definitely a thought, since so much of the book is preoccupied with writing. I will keep this idea in mind as I read more.

And speaking of usual tricks, the books are divided by months. I mentioned before about being unsure of the chronology of events. I'm keeping an eye out for him messing with time, even though I don't think that Murakami is going down that path here.


message 8: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
mp wrote: "There is also a loner guy hanging out with a strange teenage girl."

Does she have a dragon tattoo?


message 9: by Megha (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) None has been revealed so far. Perhaps one will appear once we crossover to the other world.

Is that a Steig Larsson reference, btw? I have seen this kind of odd pairing only in Murakami novels.


message 10: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
mp wrote: "Is that a Steig Larsson reference, btw? I have seen this kind of odd pairing only in Murakami novels."

Yes. It was the first thing that came into my mind when you said "a loner guy hanging out with a strange teenage girl". (Even though his relationships with other women suggest that he wasn't really a loner guy.)

It's definitely a different sort of relationship to that in "Lolita".


message 11: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments The characters in Wind Up Bires has the same theme older man younger girl. The characters were engaging but the story loathing me in the well lol
lolita he was kinda preverted and he knew it lol


message 12: by Stephen M (last edited Nov 03, 2011 03:30PM) (new)

Stephen M | 11 comments I don't even need to explain this.
This is from page 257, when Tengo is describing the book 1984:

"In his novel, George Orwell depicted the future as a dark society dominated by totalitarianism. People are rigidly controlled by a dictator named Big Brother. Information is restricted, and history is constantly being rewritten. The protagonist works in a government office, and I'm pretty sure his job is to rewrite words. Whenever a new history is written, the old histories all have to be thrown out. In the process, words are remade, and the meanings of current words are changed. What with history being rewritten so often nobody knows what is true anymore. They lose track of who is an enemy and who an ally. It's that kind of story."

He is pretty much giving it away at this point.


message 13: by Megha (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) By the way, does anyone know how 'Aomame' should be pronounced?


message 14: by Stephen M (new)

Stephen M | 11 comments In the book it says "A" (long vowel) "oh" "mah" "me".


message 15: by Megha (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) Stephen wrote: "In the book it says "A" (long vowel) "oh" "mah" "me"."

Oh right, she does talk about it in the first chapter. I had forgotten.


message 16: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments it was kinda funny to me she is names after a pea. .. close to the edamame, people like to call her Edamame but she would say she was the pea and not the bean lol


message 17: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments I didnt figure that out until the pregnancy of Aomame. But I did think there was some connection I just wasnt sure where it was going.


message 18: by Lori (last edited Nov 08, 2011 02:35PM) (new)

Lori Sue wrote: "I didnt figure that out until the pregnancy of Aomame. But I did think there was some connection I just wasnt sure where it was going."

Whoa spoiler! I better not come back here til done. :D

But I too have been busy trying to figure out connections and such.


message 19: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments Sorry Lori, but its not a big spoiler !! I find he introduces so many characters and I am trying too hard to figure out the importance of their being in the book and when but I am on my 2nd reading and still really dont have a clue ???


message 20: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments Oh another thought, if F & A are the same person how can it be so because their bodies are totally differnt as we are told many time throughout the book that A. has very small breasts and F. has well Im not sure of the cup size but they are definatly larger than A's. haha


message 21: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
I'll keep an eye out for the cup size.


message 22: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments I believe Tengo is doing that same thing :)


message 23: by Sue (last edited Nov 11, 2011 10:36AM) (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments I believe this is at the end of Book One. This kinda explains the Q world from Tengo's point of view.

Tengo began to speak. “The story is about me—or about somebody modeled on me.” “I’m sure it is,” she said. “Am I in it?” “No, you’re not. I’m in a world that isn’t here.” “So I’m not in the world that isn’t here.” “And not just you. The people who are in this world are not in the world that isn’t here.” “How is the world that isn’t here different from this world? Can you tell which world you’re in now?” “Of course I can. I’m the one who’s writing it.” “What I mean is, for people other than you. Say, if I just happened to wander into that...


Of course I highlighted the whole passage about the two moons but I guess amazon didnt want to copy it to my notes LOL it just give you the ...
Did anybody else find this passage exciting?


message 24: by Lori (last edited Nov 11, 2011 03:38PM) (new)

Lori Well I'm totally confused about the 2 worlds frankly. Everything and everyone in the 1q84 world is also in 1984, or at least I think so! We do only meet the dowager, Tamanu in the q world, but A was on her to assassinate in the cab at the very beginning so I assume they are in the "real" world as well. And the detective, what world is he in? Seems both as well, and the Leader etc. I really can't make sense of it, but then again with Murakami I usually don't even try, it's like a dream world where I agree to be thrown about with non-sequitors deep in an ocean of moods, emotions and reactions. So I tried to get an intellectual analysis going about that quote above, but realized I wouldn't be able to untangle it.

Sue no worries, really with Murakami the plot isn't as important as the dream-induced journey!


message 25: by Ian (last edited Nov 11, 2011 03:48PM) (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
I am only 100-odd pages in, but I'm on the lookout for wells, stairwells, deep dark spaces or things, and other connections or journeys between worlds.

There has already been a very brief mention of goats being a connection.

In Norwegian Wood, the well was an alternative path to the standard route between adolescence and adulthood.


message 26: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments oh my Ian dont go there about the goats and the little people <-------- I can make head nor tail of this at all !!!! somebody tell me what the goats and the little people are or mean??? I dont know if either of these are real????

Lori thanks, I guess I am over analytical but I want meaning - reason one where Wind up Bird Chronicles didnt work for me although I loved the characters and was very attached to them.

Ian come on man read !!! tell me the answers !!! haha


message 27: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments So how do we know what world they are in and when? hahaha


message 28: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
Sue wrote: "Ian come on man read !!! tell me the answers !!! haha ."

I regret that I have been doing more drinking than reading this week.


message 29: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments tsk tsk ... for shame lol maybe if you drink and read you could make sense of some of this hahahaha


message 30: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
I'll see if I can drink until some sort of resolution comes to my senses.


message 31: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments Tengo is told by another oracular figure, "If you can't understand it without an explanation, you can't understand it with an explanation." WHAT? hahaha


message 32: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments so if she was sent to kill the leader in the regular world, but ended up killing the one in the 1Q world... does that mean there’s still a leader in the real world?

how does the two worlds tie up... and she thinks she’s carrying the leader’s baby? there are so many unresolved questions. That’s why I read somewhere that there is a BOOK 4 !!!!

and tell me is it Tengo's father knocking on Aomame's door tryign to collect the fees? questions I am dying to know


message 33: by Megha (last edited Nov 27, 2011 08:23PM) (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) Perhaps the Leader only existed in the Q-World?
Before Aomame left the Q-world, she said Goodbye to Tamaru, which indicates that she wasn't going to be able to see them outside Q-world. Many of the elements, including the second moon of course, probably existed only in the Q-world.

Oh and she is carrying Tengo's baby, not the Leader's.


message 34: by Megha (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) Sue wrote: "and tell me is it Tengo's father knocking on Aomame's door tryign to collect the fees? questions I am dying to know "

Yes, I do think that NHK fee collector was Tengo's father only. One of the nurses mentions that he used to tap on his bed while in coma, as if knocking on a door.
Seems like Tengo's father used to cross-over from one world to another and knock on the doors of people living in 1Q84. Why he did so is beyond me.


message 35: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments And why did he bother Aomame? but he thought it was another person LOL kind of a silly thing to get stuck on but thats one of them :) and Tengo told him he could stop now in one visit with his Father and he didnt do it anymore? I just keep thinking there had to be more to it but I have to let it go ........ let it go ... was he Tengo's real father? did his father love him YES did he show it NO . Dont give me four dimensional characters if you just want to drop them HA!


message 36: by Ian (last edited Nov 27, 2011 08:42PM) (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
SPOILER ALERT

I haven't worked all of this out myself yet, but here are some thoughts.

I don't yet think that the two worlds are actually parallel in the sense that they are separate from each other.

I suspect that they are like Venn diagrams that overlap.

So it's possible that there might be a 90% overlap where people are in both worlds, but 10% is on the fringes.

The second moon is in the Q fringe.

So two people could sit in the playground, and one would see two moons and the other wouldn't.

Some would see police with the right uniform and guns and others would see them with the Q version.

So it might be in the way that you see or perceive things.

This means that there aren't duplicates of each person.

So if a leader was killed they would be killed, full stop.

If they were a real world leader, they would be killed in both worlds; if they were a Q world leader, they would be killed in the Q world fringe and would never have been in the real world.

I could be wrong on this.

It's possible that Q world incorporates the whole of the real world, so that the fringe outside the overlap is all Q world.

In other words, there is no real world that is not also in the Q world.

However, this mightn't explain the absence of the stairway down from the Q world back to the real world.

This might be something special about how passageways work.

I don't think Aomame ended up carrying the Leader's baby.

Everybody seems to think that Tengo impregnated Aomame by ejaculating inside Fuku-Eri, who for that moment was a passageway to Aomame.

Aomame was in his apartment, and Aomame happened to be in the hotel room with the Leader at the time.

There are a lot of things that remain unexplained: how was the massage arranged? Did the dowager get somebody to offer the Leader a massage? Did the Leader want one and approach the Sports Club (unlikely)? Who was the go-between in all of that?

Is there a link between the dowager and the lady in the Mercedes coupe?

I've got to go back and work out all of this Perceiver and Receiver stuff too.

What will become of Ushikawa as an Air Chrysalis?

Will the Little People go on? Or is this the death of them?

Is this just Murakami playing around? (Ho ho!)


message 37: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
Sue wrote: "And why did he bother Aomame? but he thought it was another person LOL kind of a silly thing to get stuck on but thats one of them :) and Tengo told him he could stop now in one visit with his Fat..."

I haven't worked out the NHK collector yet, but here is an idea.

I think it was Tengo's dad. If it wasn't, then we wouldn't have a clue who it was.

We know it wasn't Ushikawa, who knew about the NHK connection.

I don't think it was Buzzcut or Ponytail, who wouldn't have known about the NHK connection.

If it was Tengo's dad, I think he was scaring the girls into staying indoors, so they weren't detected by anybody else.


message 38: by Megha (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) "We know it wasn't Ushikawa, who knew about the NHK connection. "

Tengo's dad knocked on Ushikawa's door as well. And after that Ushikawa never saw an NHK fee collector going out of the building.


message 39: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
mp wrote: "Seems like Tengo's father used to cross-over from one world to another and knock on the doors of people living in 1Q84. Why he did so is beyond me."

I guess my question is were they only living in Q world.

My understanding is that Tengo and his apartment were in the real world (as well as Q world, on my interpretation), but F-E was staying in his apartment. Was she in or from Q world?


message 40: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
mp wrote: ""We know it wasn't Ushikawa, who knew about the NHK connection. "

Tengo's dad knocked on Ushikawa's door as well. And after that Ushikawa never saw an NHK fee collector going out of the building."


That's right. (I knew there was another reason. The phone's been going hot here.)


message 41: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
Back on the two worlds, does anyone have any thoughts on the page numbering?

Is it just alternating between correct and reversed, or is there some other system that identifies which world the action is in?


message 42: by Megha (last edited Nov 27, 2011 09:53PM) (new)

Megha (hearthewindsing) Ian wrote: "mp wrote: "Seems like Tengo's father used to cross-over from one world to another and knock on the doors of people living in 1Q84. Why he did so is beyond me."

I guess my question is were they onl..."


My understanding is that people in the Q-world were able to interact with the real world as usual and were aware of the Q-world specific things at the same time. Aomame knew the Dowager even before she crossed over to the Q world. Most likely real world is a part of the Q-world and Aomame, Tengo, Dowager etc. lie in the intersection between the two worlds (to borrow from your venn diagram terminology).

To take another wild guess, may be the real world is on 'pause' while the Q-world action unfolds. I am trying to think on this line because the question of time moving forward is brought up in the book a few times.


message 43: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments Yes the father NHK thing has got me knackered! Was it just random? his knocking and harrassing? If so we only hear about our characters and then somehow in those visits with his father Tengo helps both himself and his father let go of past issues. But I still cant figure out the importance of all this.


message 44: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
Sue, if my theory is right, Tengo's father was actually keeping safe two people who were really important to Tengo.

Perhaps, this was his way of saying that he wasn't "nothing" at all.

It was his last gift back to his son.

Also, do you think Tengo's father (the one we've just been talking about) murdered his mother?

Was it the the other guy?


message 45: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments How did Tengo care about Ushikawa? I'm confused yet again
yes I think the father did it but its another very another very fine fuzzy line that could logically go both ways

I like the gift back to his son theory tho. ...


message 46: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments Oh I haven't seen a hard copy book so I have no clue about the pages. ..Sounds interesting


message 47: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
Sue wrote: "How did Tengo care about Ushikawa? I'm confused yet again"

A bit harder to explain perhaps.

If Tengo's father had intimidated U into leaving or staying in hiding (and not spying), perhaps he would have stayed alive?


message 48: by Sue (new)

Sue (snuzy36) | 70 comments Maybe this is why I had a hard time with the Wind Up Bird. ... I needed it to make some sense to me lol

ok Tengos father and lets say he is the real father keeps U. From seeing what's going on as he does miss some people moving. Now remind me did U.get distracted from things he missed due to the knocking? or are you speculating? Haha
why do I care so much about Tengo and his father? probably the same reason I care so much about (forget his name) the stupid man in the well! maybe well you are at it you can help me resolve that one too lol a magic link? oh Tengo and man in the well how you haunt me.


message 49: by Ian (new)

Ian "Marvin" Graye | 191 comments Mod
U was always going to miss some people because he was a lone wolf.

According to T, true surveillance required three people, two to alternate and one to get the supplies.

TWUBC has to wait until next year, when I re-read it.

Wells are everywhere. Holes, passages, stairs, ladders, they're connections between stages or worlds.


message 50: by Aloha (new)

Aloha I finished the book and was researching the significance of the number ten on the web, when Google led me to this group. LOL I noticed ten is repeated often in the book. Hi, Ian. Anyway, I'm writing the review now. TTYL.


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