THE JAMES MASON COMMUNITY BOOK CLUB discussion

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Authors and Their Books > More smoke than (KINDLE) Fire?

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message 1: by Boyd (new)

Boyd Lemon (goodreadscomboydlemon) | 67 comments Maybe a little too much growth to fast, but Amazon is a giant and I think will remain so.

Boyd Lemon-Author of "Digging Deep: A Writer Uncovers His Marriages," a memoir of the author's journey to understand his role in the destruction of his three marriages, helpful for anyone to deal with issues in their own relationships. Information, excerpts and reviews: http://www.BoydLemon-Writer.com.


message 2: by Boyd (new)

Boyd Lemon (goodreadscomboydlemon) | 67 comments Maybe a little too much growth to fast, but Amazon is a giant and I think will remain so.

Boyd Lemon-Author of "Digging Deep: A Writer Uncovers His Marriages," a memoir of the author's journey to understand his role in the destruction of his three marriages, helpful for anyone to deal with issues in their own relationships. Information, excerpts and reviews: http://www.BoydLemon-Writer.com.


message 3: by Boyd (new)

Boyd Lemon (goodreadscomboydlemon) | 67 comments Maybe a little too much growth to fast, but Amazon is a giant and I think will remain so.

Boyd Lemon-Author of "Digging Deep: A Writer Uncovers His Marriages," a memoir of the author's journey to understand his role in the destruction of his three marriages, helpful for anyone to deal with issues in their own relationships. Information, excerpts and reviews: http://www.BoydLemon-Writer.com.


message 4: by Boyd (new)

Boyd Lemon (goodreadscomboydlemon) | 67 comments Maybe a little too much growth to fast, but Amazon is a giant and I think will remain so.

Boyd Lemon-Author of "Digging Deep: A Writer Uncovers His Marriages," a memoir of the author's journey to understand his role in the destruction of his three marriages, helpful for anyone to deal with issues in their own relationships. Information, excerpts and reviews: http://www.BoydLemon-Writer.com.


message 5: by Ottilie (new)

Ottilie (ottilie_weber) Do you know you posted the same thing 5 times?


message 6: by Boyd (new)

Boyd Lemon (goodreadscomboydlemon) | 67 comments Sorry. I didn't think it was going through, but obviously it did. I apologize for the irritation.


message 7: by Ottilie (new)

Ottilie (ottilie_weber) No problem


message 8: by Larry (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments Gee, and I thought I had a lot of participation. Aw, shucks. ;-)


message 9: by Boyd (new)

Boyd Lemon (goodreadscomboydlemon) | 67 comments True, Larry, but I don't think Amazon is one of those. Of course, I could be wrong. People were talking about Apple failing a while back. We'll see. Won't we.


message 10: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 13 comments I don't know anyone who owns a Kindle who doesn't use it. I was very reluctant at first - but now I almost constantly have it in my hands. It has really allowed me to read more for less money. That's always a good thing. :o) Maybe the people who aren't using it are the kind who always have to have the latest tech but don't have the time to read? It's kind of interesting that they're monitoring it anyway. How do they rate that - by how many books are getting downloaded?

On my writing boards and loops there is always chatter about how to best use it (for writing) or some new feature/purpose that someone discovered is being shared. I also pre-ordered the Fire. I don't know if it will live up to the hype (at least not right away), but I think Amazon has a finger to the pulse of what people want. That's why they are so huge.


message 11: by Jan C (new)

Jan C (woeisme) I use my kindle (2nd gen) every day. Great for reading on the commute or any other time you can't spare two hands to hold a book. Better when I fall asleep reading -I don't lose my place like I do with a book.


message 12: by Gerald (new)

Gerald Pruett | 39 comments I own a kindle and I know people at my work who also own kindles.


message 13: by Larry (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments Sorry, but what's your point?


message 14: by Gerald (last edited Oct 30, 2011 02:17AM) (new)

Gerald Pruett | 39 comments My point? I'm assuming that you're speaking to me, and I thought this was just a general discussion, but apparently I was mistaken.

Anyway, I was sharing (Not making a point)that I bought it and I'm using it. I know other people who had bought them and who are using them. And I know people who had bought the nook and who are using them as well.

Now, I'm guessing that your point is that 1/3 of the kindles are not being used after purchase. But when it comes down to it, does Amazon even care if people are using them as long as they are being sold. Amazon are still generating a profit with each kindle if the consumers are using them or not.


message 15: by Gerald (new)

Gerald Pruett | 39 comments You have a gableholic attitude when it comes to writing Larry. You're walking in and expecting to win it big, but all you're doing is rising so high that when you crash, you're going to crash so hard that recovering is going to be next to impossible.


Of course I would love to sell my stories. I'm even hoping to write the next best seller, but I'm not going to set myself up and become a bitter old man when I don't.

As far the kindles not being used, I know a lot of readers are getting them as gifts from their love ones, and many of those readers prefer actual books over kindles.


message 16: by Jane (new)

Jane | 121 comments My goodness Larry. You just make it so exciting to add to your "business oriented discussion". I'm sure I don't qualify and don't expect a sarcastic and unpleasant and arrogant response. I'm going to keep checking though to see how many more people want to "chime in".

I have no agenda as I am not "sniffing around the publishing periphery". Just adding my unasked for opinion on your thread. And, of course, it is not pertinent to your important discussion (oh, sorry wrong word).

You sound not only bitter but blood pressure risingly angry. To take it out on someone expressing their opinion on your sacred thread is really sad.


message 17: by Glenda (new)

Glenda (glenda-r) I'm sorry. I'm new here and not an author. First off, what does "gabeholic" mean? I'm just curious. I can't find it in the dictionary.

As for the Kindle. I've had one roughly a years and there's been very few days that I haven't had it in my hand. It is perfect for me, but I am afraid that it will out-technology itself. If there is such a thing.

I also know people who can't wait to buy the "latest toy" (i.e., ipad, iphone, etc.) only to let it gather dust on some shelf. Purchasing over-priced upgrades is just not my thing. I'm not that affluent either.


message 18: by Ottilie (new)

Ottilie (ottilie_weber) Glenda when you say out technology itself do you mean like the ipod where a new one comes out, or is updated every year or so?


message 19: by Glenda (new)

Glenda (glenda-r) Yes Ottilie. That is exactly what I mean. I am 63 years old and retired now. When I worked at a 9-5 job at a hospital, it seemed everyone "had to have" the iphone. It seemed like every 6 months there was a new one coming out. Now, how can anyone need to buy a new phone every 6-12 months. How outdated could the previous one be? I feel the same about the Kindle and any other e-readers that are doing the same. If you want to read, you will read. My Kindle does not have the bells and whistles, yet it accomplishes what I bought it for.


message 20: by Hock (new)

Hock Tjoa (hockgtjoa) | 27 comments Larry wrote: "My recent skepticism about Amazon appears, at least to me, to be borne out by a Wall Street Journal story this week saying: “Amazon.com Inc.'s (AMZN) third-quarter earnings plunged 73% because of ..."

My wife who loves hard copy books received a Kindle from our daughters and was tickled pink with it. She has found books to download from our local library as well as free books from sites like the Gutenberg Project.

All this is anecdotal, I know. But I suspect Amazon /Kindle priced the Fire at above its variable cost (i.e., without the fixed /sunk costs such as capital investment, R&D which have to be amortized, etc. etc.) This is a business decision and those who manage portfolios holding Amazon stock for the short term may not like it but Jeff Bezos seems to know what he is doing.... I am hoping to publish Heaven is High on the Amazon DTP later this year--for another anecdotal point.


message 21: by Ottilie (new)

Ottilie (ottilie_weber) Glenda, okay I just wanted to make sure. I think the e-readers could last a little longer without having to be updated if you're only using it for reading. There is only one real way to read a book on those. I just don't know how many ways they could change it. It's not like oh we are going to make it smaller or thinner, it's already pretty small. So I wouldn't worry about it :)


message 22: by Gerald (last edited Oct 30, 2011 05:49PM) (new)

Gerald Pruett | 39 comments Jane wrote: "My goodness Larry. You just make it so exciting to add to your "business oriented discussion". I'm sure I don't qualify and don't expect a sarcastic and unpleasant and arrogant response. I'm go..."

Just answering-What is gambleholic?

I got the word from the website. It means a person with a gambling addiction. And don't worry, Larry. I learn my lesson. I won't respond to any of your posts again.


message 23: by Glenda (new)

Glenda (glenda-r) Gerald wrote: "Jane wrote: "My goodness Larry. You just make it so exciting to add to your "business oriented discussion". I'm sure I don't qualify and don't expect a sarcastic and unpleasant and arrogant resp..."

Thanks Gerald, but the word in the post is gabeholic. Not gambleholic. Did you find a definition for that one? Just a question.


message 24: by Gerald (new)

Gerald Pruett | 39 comments Glenda wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Jane wrote: "My goodness Larry. You just make it so exciting to add to your "business oriented discussion". I'm sure I don't qualify and don't expect a sarcastic and unpleasant an..."

Sorry. That was a spelling error that I had kept failing to catch.


message 25: by Larry (last edited Oct 30, 2011 07:47PM) (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments Jane wrote: "My goodness Larry. You just make it so exciting to add to your "business oriented discussion". I'm sure I don't qualify and don't expect a sarcastic and unpleasant and arrogant response. I'm go..."

This is an author thread. Forgive me for expecting authors and intelligent comment on it. And, for the record, my BP is fine. Hope you and Gerald decide which word it was: Gableholic or Gabeholic. I've never heard of either one, nor does it readily turn up in a Google search.


Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB  | 7278 comments Mod
As Moderator of James Mason- 5,125 plus members, several hundred threads, hard for me to keep track of all posts- all I ask is that while debate is always welcome, lets try and keep it focused on the topic and not individuals- it is so very important to me that all feel comfortable expressing their opinions. The last thing I want, though is for members to become agitated at each other, so I am asking that all show respect for each other. There seems to be alot of emotion on this thread, nothing wrong with that, but lets make sure that we show respect for the thoughts of all, regardless of if we disagree. The overall topic of the Kindle, Amazon and Marketing seems quite interesting - just hate to see fellow members upset at each other- so should anyone wish to continue this topic- all I ask is no name calling. I am purposely keeping this post general as I hope to get what is a facinating topic back on track!


message 27: by Virginia (new)

Virginia Llorca | 51 comments My Kindle 3G cost $139 with no tax and free shipping. It was $179 at Target. You can check your email on it.
subscribe to New Yorker for $1.99 and it is $5.99 an issue in paper. Amazing resource.


message 28: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 13 comments Larry wrote: "Actually, I NEVER start a thread just to encourage idle chit chat or, as you call it: "general discussion." After 45 years as a professional writer, I don't know how much clearer I could make the..."

So this isn't about the Kindle at all; it's about self-publishing. While it's true that self-pubbed authors often take advantage of e-publishing, they don't only use Amazon. Many use vanity presses or go direct through their own software and market it for the other e-readers as well. Why target Amazon and Kindle in particular?

I don't read business papers. I understand why you might, but I have enough to do with work, writing, my home responsibilities and then I use the time that's left to network, research, and a lot of reading.

Part of that is reading publishing, agent, and other writer's blogs. I can't count how many articles I've seen about the rise of e-publishing and how big a chunk of the market current sales are and whether it might foretell the end for brick and mortar stores -- and anything but POD printing. Most are saying hardbacks are or will very soon be a thing of the past. Paperbacks are predicted to follow within a decade or so.

They are only guessing from the rapid rise in e-book sales. If people were so turned off because all e-books were of such low quality, then that would not be the case. More and more major publishers are offering e-books -- and offering them sooner rather than later. There are some "kinks" in formatting that even the major publishers could do better at but most readers are willing to put up with that for the convenience, cost, and other features offered by the e-readers. If they weren't then this new area wouldn't be all that anyone could talk about.

It's not just self-pubbed authors on there (and not all of them are bad either). Many of the books have high ratings and are from traditional houses. I think you're judging based on stereotypes.


message 29: by Larry (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments Margaret wrote: "Larry wrote: "Actually, I NEVER start a thread just to encourage idle chit chat or, as you call it: "general discussion." After 45 years as a professional writer, I don't know how much clearer I ..."

The thread was started to be ENTIRELY about Amazon and Kindle. It's been twisted by several people who prefer to obfuscate rather than discuss, so I've pulled the question and my other comments. Like you I'm to busy to waste time chit-chatting about irrelevant material.

Self-Promotion for Authors


message 30: by James (new)

James Thompson (jamesthompson) | 42 comments If you read into it a little bit, you might come to the conclusion that amazon knew it would take a hard third quarter hit in return for growth. Those 'gambleholics' are staking a great deal for the chance to monopolize various markets.


message 31: by Larry (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments That's a foregone conclusion. What's troubling are the reports that coincide and indicate the Kindle popularity bubble may already have burst.


message 32: by Virginia (new)

Virginia Llorca | 51 comments @James. What is at stake?


message 33: by James (new)

James Thompson (jamesthompson) | 42 comments They brought out a new line Kindles and they're priced very low, while the R&D cost a great deal. Interestingly, Kindle Fire, the most expensive of them, sold the best. What is at stake is monopoly of the e-book market now that other new and very good players are in the game, so profit margins for new products and some books must be kept low, or even at times at a loss, in order to totally dominate sales (which isn't currently happening. Check this out: http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/helsi... Also, they've moved into publishing, trying to take a piece of that pie from the Big Six and given hefty advances and more lucrative terms to authors to accomplish it. So, the perceived disappointing third quarters earning might be better viewed as massive and somewhat risky investment. Sorry if that's more than you wanted to know. I'm a font of useless information :-)


message 34: by Virginia (new)

Virginia Llorca | 51 comments Thanks. It's interesting. I haven't heard much about Apple publishing, but it is not easy to access their catalog. I have heard they sell more ebooks than anyone because there are so many brands of ereaders over seas.


message 35: by Virginia (new)

Virginia Llorca | 51 comments Oh, I went to that link and they finally picked up from Smashwords that my one book is free! Thanks for leaving that link!


message 36: by Larry (last edited Nov 01, 2011 12:06PM) (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments I'm fascinated by people who continue to comment even when I removed the thread that kicked off this discussion.

Just today, there was a story about a major publisher now starting legal action to pursue book pirates. Authors are welcome to learn more by visiting my Published Authors Biz forum.

Wiley Goes After Bit Torrent Pirates

According to the Publishers Weekly daily newsletter: “John Wiley & Sons filed a copyright infringement suit ... a company spokesperson said the intent of the lawsuit is to learn the names of the infringers so the company can contact them to work out a settlement.”

For more information on this and other major publishing industry news, please visit http://www.larrymonizbooks.com/


message 37: by Lee (new)

Lee Holz Larry wrote: "That's a foregone conclusion. What's troubling are the reports that coincide and indicate the Kindle popularity bubble may already have burst."

I think we need to make a distinction between Kindle and Kindle Fire, the first is strictly and ereader and the second is a tablet competing with IPad at half the price. It seems to me on the basis of the sales data I've seen that Kindle and ebooks for it are a huge winner for Amazon. I expect that to continue particularly with Kindle now priced at $79. Given the super-efficient business model, I think Amazon could give away the readers and still make big money on the books. The drawback as I see it is that the KDP format is clunky and a bitch to work with. Amazon would be better advised to go with ePub. Nevertheless, the Kindle is a great ereader.

Kindle Fire is problematic although I've read some good technical reviews. Taking on Apple is something else.


message 38: by Larry (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments Virginia wrote: "Thanks. It's interesting. I haven't heard much about Apple publishing, but it is not easy to access their catalog. I have heard they sell more ebooks than anyone because there are so many brands o..."

To me, Apple appears more in marketing multi-use products such as tablets and Iphones rather than in software for the products. Unless it's being kept a deep dark secret, there is no easy one-stop way to sell books in Apple stores. I tried for several days and it appears that one has to physically connect with an individual store in order to accomplish it. That leaves me high and dry as there are none in my immediate area and I'm no longer able to drive long distances.


message 39: by Lee (new)

Lee Holz Larry wrote: "Virginia wrote: "Thanks. It's interesting. I haven't heard much about Apple publishing, but it is not easy to access their catalog. I have heard they sell more ebooks than anyone because there are..."

Apple is moving into content. It is currently the biggest seller of music - via all its devices. It is moving the same way with its Apple TV set top box and deal with NetFlicks. Why not ebooks? It already has the platforms (IPad, IPhone, etc.) and the servers (for ITunes). All it has to add is content and there are mobs of indie authors/publishers out there dying for a new outlet. It can sign up a few big name authors for promotion and its off to the races.


message 40: by Virginia (new)

Virginia Llorca | 51 comments On the iTunes page you just click books. Then it's like any other catalog. you do have to open iTunes


message 41: by Virginia (new)

Virginia Llorca | 51 comments I'm in it. I've seen it.


message 42: by Larry (new)

Larry Moniz (larrymoniz) | 71 comments Virginia. Thank you for the tip. I've been hitting my head against a brick wall with Apple and it'll feel Soooooo good to stop. ;-)

Lee, some good points. They well could. All prior assumptions regarding Apple are off with the death of Steve Jobs. Hope the new captain knows how to steer the best course.


message 43: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 13 comments I just went around and checked a bunch of professional review sites for the Kindle Fire and they all had positive reviews for it.

One of the last ones I checked, CNET, said that "In the world of tablets, there are great products and there are cheap products, but very few great, cheap products. For those of you unwilling to shell out $500 for an Apple iPad 2, and who are wary of buying a piece of junk, Amazon.com's $199 Kindle Fire tablet should be at the top of your wish list."

Another stated that 20,000 per day were selling via pre-orders.

Another one talked about how the new Nook and current iPad are faring against the Kindle Fire - stating that the only real hope is that they would price the Nook very competitively and possibly offer a larger screen and try to make a deal with Netflix to compete with video content Amazon is offering their customers. Everyone knows the iPad has great features - but you have to pay big bucks for them and in this economy that may leave out a lot of customers.

It seems to me that the Kindle Fire may not be perfect, but these projections of doom are premature and probably not true at all.

Someone quoted a publishing article saying that e-book sales were up over 100% in both July and August. I don't think the Kindle bubble has burst. I think Amazon is trying to reach a market of people who would like to purchase something like the iPad but can't afford it (or don't want to deal with apple and all the little fees all the time).

Of course I may be biased. I love my current Kindle and pre-ordered the Fire. I'm one of those who loved the iPad tech and not the price (or iTunes).

Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/amazo...


message 44: by James (new)

James Thompson (jamesthompson) | 42 comments They've got all my books in their catalog. As easy as 1 2 3
http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/helsi...


message 45: by James (new)

James Thompson (jamesthompson) | 42 comments Gerald wrote: "My point? I'm assuming that you're speaking to me, and I thought this was just a general discussion, but apparently I was mistaken.

Anyway, I was sharing (Not making a point)that I bought it an..."


Actually, they care very much. At one point they were selling them at a loss in an effort to corner the ebook market


message 46: by James (new)

James Thompson (jamesthompson) | 42 comments Margaret wrote: "Larry wrote: "Actually, I NEVER start a thread just to encourage idle chit chat or, as you call it: "general discussion." After 45 years as a professional writer, I don't know how much clearer I ..."

I joined Sisters in Crime. They publish the most intelligent and up to date articles I've seen on these subjects. If you're a professional writer, it's well worth it to join.


message 47: by James (new)

James Thompson (jamesthompson) | 42 comments Virginia wrote: "Thanks. It's interesting. I haven't heard much about Apple publishing, but it is not easy to access their catalog. I have heard they sell more ebooks than anyone because there are so many brands o..."

This is likely true. Here in Finland--and nobody loves their tech toys more than Finns--e-books haven't caught on largely because the format issue remains undecided. My Finnish publisher is WSOY. It was sold a couple weeks ago to Swedish publisher Bonnier, but prior to that, was the biggest publisher in Northern Europe. This summer, they put out there first three e-books, one of which was my Lucifer's Tears. It was number on the e charts for a while in the nations premier bookchain--with 25 units sold. What a hoot!


message 48: by James (new)

James Thompson (jamesthompson) | 42 comments Margaret wrote: "I just went around and checked a bunch of professional review sites for the Kindle Fire and they all had positive reviews for it.

One of the last ones I checked, CNET, said that "In the world of ..."


I read that Kindle Fire sold 95,000 units in it's first week.


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