Fantasy Aficionados discussion
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Book Eligibility: FA's top 100 books of all time
Wondering if Lord Valentine's Castle is too sci-fi-ish to make the list? I've always thought of it as fantasy, but I've seen it mentioned several places as sci-fi, not sure if that's because it is or if people just tend to lump the two together. Wikipedia says "The setting is a mixture of elements of science fiction and fantasy." So what do ya think?
Melissa wrote: "Wondering if Lord Valentine's Castle is too sci-fi-ish to make the list? I've always thought of it as fantasy, but I've seen it mentioned several places as sci-fi, not sure if that's ..."I would like to see others chime in but I think that this series would be considered Fantasy. Anyone else?
Haven't read it, but if it's enough of a mixture that folks classify it both ways, then it should count.
Hmm I've always thought of Pern as fantasy...dragons etc.
Lanica wrote: "Is the Pern series too sci fi?"I was wondering about that too! I consider it fantasy but, to be honest, on the spines of most (a few of them don't have any classification) of my Pern books, it says 'Science Fiction'....sooo....I guess I'm not helping. LOL
I always thought of Pern as Fantasy, but a few of my friends have very hard opinions the other way...and now there are no mentions of it on the lists I've read in the nominations thread.I think I'll add it and if people want to vote it off the island later they can try.
I am a firm believer in the fact that Pern is science fiction. Why? Because the author starts every book with the story of the colonization (science fiction), the dragons are genetically engineered from an indigenous creature (science fiction), and there is no magic whatsoever in the series. The author moves the story arc back and forth through the first colonists to the rediscovery of the buried colony ship - I think that all pretty much qualifies as science fiction.I think all the Pern books should be excluded from the list we're building.
I would have called Pern fantasy... don't know if McCaffery was heading to where she ended up when she started the series, but the Dragonflight/Masterharper books were definitely fantasy and never seemed to me to reference any of the lost history. Such an interesting question! If we don't look at all the books together, I would have said fantasy.
But doesn't every one of the Pern book start with the same Foreword, in which the colonization and issues with Thread are explicity described? It even describes that the "dragons" (the author's quotes around the word) were genetically engineered from a creature native to the new world. All those things shout 'science fiction' to me.
As I haven't read the series, I can't comment. :(
As much as I love the Pern series (at least those written by Anne McCaffrey herself), I would probably consider them more science fiction than fantasy. But, if they end up on the list, I wouldn't mind, either. :D
Hmm..I've included the Pern series in my list. Not every story began with the colonization etc; in the early books, there is nothing, except a history of Thread falling in cycles and people riding dragons to destroy it, protecting the people etc.It's only when the story arc changes and you discover where the dragons came from, then its origins get a little complicated!
If you put me in a corner I'd have to come down on the science fiction side on Pern. It straddles the line and there are fantasy elements, but it's being based on a science fiction idea pushes it over the line..."for me". On the other hand I understand those who may go the other way...but the population of Pern are set up to be descendents of colonists. Oh well.
How about Naomi Novik's Temeraire series? I love it.
As of right now...we are tied for Pern with equal feelings for all sides. Should I consult a magic 8 ball or does someone else want to weigh in?
Rusty wrote: "How about Naomi Novik's Temeraire series? I love it."Just reading the blurb from the 1st book makes me think "fantasy." It seems to be alternative fantasy - like Guy but still fantasy.
Anyone else?
I suppose (unless this could get out of hand) MrsJ. you could do an actual run off... No one seems too strongly placed on the thing. It wouldn't bother me if it went into the general vote, but neither would it change my opinion. Maybe send a post to the entire membership and ask if any/every one feels strongly????
Well, since the way it is structured right now, even single votes will get to run off against others, I don't see how including it can hurt. If most people disagree, they won't vote for it.
Just to add to the confusion, how about Barbara Hambly's Windrose trilogy? However, it goes I'm having fun reading all the suggestions and looking up those I haven't read. Why couldn't we group those in a series as one and while one or another may be better than the rest, we usually read the series or at least most of it?
I was also wondering about steampunk-esque novels such as Retribution Falls or the novels by Cherie Priest. Would those be categorized as fantasy or not? I know everyone has opinions on what is included in the fantasy genre, but steampunk kind of floats somewhere between fantasy/sci-fi for me.
Re: steam-punk - I think that steampunk should be allowed as fantasy. I think that in situations like this we should go for what the basis of the story was. I didn't finish Retribution Falls but I seem to remember they rode in blimps(?). I'd push that toward fantasy. If they are riding in spaceships/airplanes? I'm leaning towards "no" unless they stick an elf or a dragon or something in there.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Re: steam-punk - I think that steampunk should be allowed as fantasy. I think that in situations like this we should go for what the basis of the story was. I didn't finish Retribution Falls but ..."It's some blimp-like aircraft powered by a crystal or some sort and there are traces of magic + non-human characters in it.
Yah, not my cup of tea, but Steam Punk would be a sub-genre of fantasy I suppose, like Urban Fantasy and so on. I mean where else would it go?
I only read the first 3 Pern books, and to me they are fantasy :-)
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Yah, not my cup of tea, but Steam Punk would be a sub-genre of fantasy I suppose, like Urban Fantasy and so on. I mean where else would it go?"Since it started off as a genre being primarily focused on anachronistic tech - it would go under sci-fi.
That said, I would say it depends on the story. There's a lot of cross-genres anymore, and many authors have added magic and other fantasy elements into Steampunk settings.
Retribution Falls, for instance, has fantasy elements, what with the magic and all, but Boneshaker has no fantasy elements that I can recall and would be pretty firmly sci-fi.
I side stepped science fiction as the hard sci/fi folks would probably take umbrage at it. Steam powered, clockwork and other (as noted) anachronistic technologies don't fit into the paradigm most hard sci/fi people hold.Still again, I don't really have a dog in the fight, not being a big steam punk fan. I always think they sound good but so far haven't found one I really like.
And if hard sci-fi folks had the sole prerogative on what sci-fi was, I might care. ;)
Just saying why I went fantasy...not looking to disagree over it. Feel free, as noted I'm not really fussed about it.
I love that saying, Mike... "not really fussed about it." Can't remember where I first heard it--I think it might be a regional saying. Do you know?As for me, since MrsJ is allowing single titles to make the run, you might as well throw R.Falls in.
No...just out of the dungeons of my mind somewhere.
I think I first heard it in the UK.
What did we ever decide about young adult? I see quite a few YA books, and I remember having a discussion... somewhere... *wanders off*
I think it's hard to draw the line between ya and adult fantasy fiction.The age of the main character is, as I see it, not always a good guideline, both Garth Nix' Keys to the kingdom series, Susan Coopers The dark is rising and Gaiman's Coraline have very adult themes, that a younger reader may not notice. Sort of a 2 level read :-)
Carol - I'm not sure that there was ever a decision, aside from the fact that there are some MG and YA books which are very good books and also important to the history of fantasy, and so shouldn't be excluded, but that they also hoped that people wouldn't vote in tweeny romance books (which I admit to being a little tetchy about personally, but there you have it).
Carolyn wrote: "I am a firm believer in the fact that Pern is science fiction. Why? Because the author starts every book with the story of the colonization (science fiction), the dragons are genetically engineered..."This has been argued interminably. The 1st trilogy reads like fantasy and I consider it fantasy and have nominated it. Not until they discover the caves and ruins on the Southern continent does it become SF as are some of the prequels.
Even Janny's WoLaS has some SF elements, but it is certainly a fantasy.
OTOH, someone nominated the Thrawn Trilogy which is Star Wars and has been proclaimed SF by the mods.
It's good to have no regrets. (Shakes Ala's hand...err, do small green aliens have hands?)
What do you think of The Great and Secret Show? My first reaction is horror because it's Clive Barker. But it has strong fantasy elements. Along the same line of Neil Gaiman. So horror? Dark fantasy? Urban?
Melissa wrote: "Wondering if Lord Valentine's Castle is too sci-fi-ish to make the list? I've always thought of it as fantasy, but I've seen it mentioned several places as sci-fi, not sure if that's ..."If a story has elements of fantasy in it, then i.m.o . it is fantasy regardless of what other genres it might also fit under.
Lanica wrote: "Is the Pern series too sci fi?"Not i.m.o.
Rusty wrote: "How about Naomi Novik's Temeraire series? I love it."This is pure (historical) fantasy i.m.o.
Colleen of the Crawling Chaos wrote: "Carol - I'm not sure that there was ever a decision, aside from the fact that there are some MG and YA books which are very good books and also important to the history of fantasy, and so shouldn't..."WHich part is bothering you?
Oh, just the comment about members being too mature and sane to vote to tweeny YA romances. I happen to quite like a few tweeny YA romances. Probably wouldn't nominate any of them as all-time best, though, so it's really a moot issue. Just made me tetchy, is all. *shrugs*
Colleen of the Crawling Chaos wrote: "Oh, just the comment about members being too mature and sane to vote to tweeny YA romances. I happen to quite like a few tweeny YA romances. Probably wouldn't nominate any of them as all-time ..."
I can understand that.
I think the only "problem" books would be those meant for children (younger than YA). Books like Harry Potter, Twilight, or Shivers are still eligible.
There was a question posed:Is A Wrinkle in Time considered SF or Fantasy. I think it's a combo of both but I haven't read the first in the series in years and years.
Thoughts?
Does anyone consider this I Am Not A Serial Killer and sequels (urban) fantasy, or does it go straight on the horror/thriller shelve?
I'm reading the first book of the Thrawn trilogy right now and it's totally fantasy.*quickly exits thread*
*re-enters thread*
And on the YA/MG front - I don't see why they should be disqualified. It's called the top 100 fantasy books... Not the top 100 fantasy books written or intended for adults. If they are nominated and happen to place, than chances are they are probably good. Just because someone doesn't like YA or MG doesn't mean they should be eliminated. There's a lot of adult fantasy sub genres I don't personally like, I'm not expecting those to be eliminated.
*re-exits thread*
Dawn wrote: "I'm reading the first book of the Thrawn trilogy right now and it's totally fantasy.*quickly exits thread*
*re-enters thread*
And on the YA/MG front - I don't see why they should be disqualifie..."
RE: Star Wars - I - personally - consider them fantasy BUT we cannot agree about that here. I'd rather make them all not eligible instead of have pages and pages of bickering going back and forth. :)
Re: YA/MG: what's MG?
Fantasy Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
Sookie Stackhouse 8 Volume Set (other topics)I Am Not a Serial Killer (other topics)
I Am Not a Serial Killer (other topics)
The Winter King (other topics)
World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War (other topics)
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Think that someone nominated a book that isn’t eligible? Majority Rules: Please discuss and decide.