Amazon Kindle discussion
Book Lengths?
The amazon website usually lists the number of pages the kindle book would be in the equivalent paper format. Just check the number of pages before you buy. With some publishers inflating page counts with slightly larger text and more line spacing its not perfect but it's the best solution.
I don't imagine you will find out a reference for what you are looking for. File sizes will be dependent on the book having images like book covers and publisher logos.I find that a lot if the books give you page lengths on amazons website and someone on the kindle store. you can also look at the page length of the paperback version if there is one and you are near a computer
Thanks! I actually noticed that quite a few of the books I've looked at lately don't have print copies or page counts - as the novella in question didn't. I think I'm going to have to restrict my buying to books that have print editions that I can reference for length, which is quite a bummer since it knocks out a huge section of available books.
I've gotten a few book like what you mentioned. I try to look at the file size and guesstimate but it doesn't always work so I either end up staying away from the small files or I read the reviews. Sometimes in the reviews someone will be just ticked off enough to mention that the book stops at 80% or that it was only so many pages. I usually read the reviews here and Amazon. Otherwise I either just risk it or stay away and lately I've been doing more staying away than risking. Usually if I right a review, and it's not mentioned, I'll mention that this book only has so many Kindle pages.
More dots on your menu listing means a longer book. Short books have only a few dots.
if its a ebook first type publisher - ie. samhein or ellora's cave - i typically check out the publisher and see how they have the length listed - most of them give a word range for that - i.e. Novella 20-25k words (about 80-120 pages give or take)
stormhawk wrote: "More dots on your menu listing means a longer book. Short books have only a few dots."
Dots are chapter breaks so it depends on the size of the chapters and does not necessarily tie to book length. The other issue is that you can not see said dots until after purchasing the book.
Dee - Good to know about the word ranges! Thanks!Tina - I feel like I should write a review on the novellas just so other readers know that it is a novella and not a full length book. Good idea! It's just such a pain to get invested in a story and then have it just end too quickly.
Thank goodness for all you helpful people! :)
When you look at the book details they usually say how many bytes they are (either gb or mb, can't remember). If you look at a book you already have then you can check thepage count and then compare.
It's kb and large books are around 2500 kb. However graphics such as pictures, maps, tables etc... Can skew the file size plus it is not easy to see the file size of existing books without plugging the kindle into a computer and viewing the contents of the document folder. It's better than nothing but not the most user friendly solution.
@Jackie ReneeGood point I always forget about the dots on the home screen. But it is number of dots not how far apart the dots are that matters on the home screen.
It still does not help solve the original problem as you can only see the home screen dots after you buy the book.
Has anyone else noticed that after a certain length the number of dots on the home screen stop?
Dance with Dragons (1040 pages hardback) has the same length as Stoneweilder(640 pages paperback) and both were purchased directly through Amazon.
My 2¢.I put an exact wordcount on my bookpages. In the digital age that is the only reliable norm, I think.
An example:
In my edition (Bloomsbury hardback) Rowling's "The Half Blood Prince" and "The Deathly Hallows" both have exactly 607 pages. Yet, HBP is 168,000+ words, and DH 204,000+.
That they 'fit' on the same amount of pages is due to type of font used, kerning and different spacing between lines.
I know the amount of words of a few books by heart, so it's easy to compare. E.g. the first Harry Potter is 76,000+ words and the complete Lord of the Rings is 561,000+ words.
It would be useful, IMHO, if all books mentioned the word count.
Andrew wrote: "My 2¢.I put an exact wordcount on my bookpages. In the digital age that is the only reliable norm, I think.
An example:
In my edition (Bloomsbury hardback) Rowling's "The Half Blood Prince" and ..."
This would be good because you can guess a little closer. I sometimes will look to see if the book is on Smashwords because they give the word count (that's if I can remember to go there).
I was just looking REALLY hard at a book yesterday but it was only in ebook, no paperback, no reviews so I went to Smashword and it only had like 10600 words and it was for $2.99. I'm not paying that much for what equals about a chapter.
Word counts help if you have a reference, so thanks Andrew.Brandon, I agree. The last two I read on kindle have the same amount of dots on the homepage. One book is 1342 pages the other 777pages!
Samples are a good indication, I hadn't thought of them. Aren't all amazon samples 10%. So multiply by 10 and there is your page count.
smashword is good for wordcounts - so is fictionwise for non-self-published books - and they give a guesstimated reading time (although its never true for me)
Before my print edition came out, I made sure to list the word count just below the description of my ebook. Otherwise, it would be a guessing game. I have a hard time believing that some authors charge upwards of $0.99 for what amounts to a short story. But, I digress. As Helen said, file size is also a good indication. Mine is 311 kb and is 328 printed pages and ~70,000 words. Anything less than 60k and you're getting into the novella territory.
Jackie Renee wrote: "One way I can usually tell if a book is short or not is by how long the free sample is. If the sample is several chapters it's a pretty good assumption that the book is fairly long, however, if yo..." This is my method as well, if the book doesn't appear on Smashwords.
It should be the publisher's responsibility to accurately describe the product.Word count is tricky because most readers don't really think about "word count," and page count can be easily adjusted as noted in the Rowling example above.
In such a case, the publisher could use, for example, "A novella of 21,000 words, approximately 100 print pages." That seems to get fairly close.
I put both the word count on mine and the number of pages, being the word count divided by 330, which is the number of words on a typical paperback page. I also say that it assumes 330 words per page. Some use 250 words per page, but 330 is closer to reality and gives a reader a good idea of book size.Indie authors owe it to their potential customers/readers to make this clear and I'm surprised that Amazon have not dealt with this for Independently published eBooks.
Hmmm, I don't put the word count in my book. I wonder if there's a way add it in the metadata when publishing the file? It'd be worth a look.Otherwise, that's a good idea to include, Steve. I suppose it could go on the title page at the front of the book.
Hi PJ, I guess you could put it in the book itself. I only put it in the description though because I figure that's where a potential buyer wants to see that kind of information. If they've bought the book it's already too late and you don't want customers to have to download the sample just to find out how big or small a book it is. Just put the details ahead of your description. Heres how mine appears: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00560R3WM
Brandon wrote: "stormhawk wrote: "More dots on your menu listing means a longer book. Short books have only a few dots."
Dots are chapter breaks so it depends on the size of the chapters and does not necessaril..."
Dots on the home page are not chapter breaks ... they're an indicator of overall length. Dots on the progress bar (little white squares, actually) when you have a book open are chapter markers, but not all books have the chapter marks in them, so you don't always know how far from the end of a section you are.
Stormhawk, See messages 12 and 14 covering this.
For page count? Since there is no official standard of wpp (I see 250-350 used) - my guess it that they for for the 350 and under estimate rather than over estimate
70k/250 wpp = 280 pgs70k/300 wpp = 234 pgs
70k/350 wpp = 200 pgs
so anything between 200 and 280 pages would be an acceptable guesstimate - I would prefer the low end over the high for previous stated reasons
that being said, authors can always put the word count in their description so that people know - I often see this - and it works form e
I've read that Amazon counts pages taking into account average page-turns needed when actually reading the book on a Kindle device or app--so the page count includes both how many Kindle pages it is for someone using a very large font, and someone using a very small font. It doesn't really have anything to do with how many words are on a printed page, though.Do you notice that longer books have page counts more in line with what you'd expect for a paperback? I haven't paid attention to it myself so I might be missing something you're seeing.
the new paperwhites have a time remaining in the chapter feature and time remaining in the book - but that changes depending on how fast you flip through the screens - it doesn't change the number of pages in a book
For whatever it may be worth, I've developed my own system for determining how much I'm willing to spend on a Kindle ebook. Based on intensive research (g) into my 10,000 book library (true number) I came to the conclusion that a "normal" paperback mainstream novel is about 300 pages. A "normal" paperback costs $7.99 these days. (Oh for the days of yesteryear when the price was several bucks lower!)So what I do is divide the number of pages by the price, and multiple that by 8. For example, 220 pages divided by $5.38 (a price often seen), multiplied by 8 comes out to 327 and change. If the book is otherwise interesting enough to buy, then it's worth the price.
On the other hand, if it's one of these 98 pages for $4.99, the math works out to 157 pages...the functional equivalent of paying $9.98 for a regular paperback. And sometimes the calculation shows I'd be pay $15-$20 bucks for that "paperback." So frankly, even with writers I really like, even if the story sounds fascinating, when the math doesn't work, I don't buy. I figure I'm getting more bang for my electronic buck this way.
Is the system perfect? Nope. Sometimes I wind up with a book like someone mentioned earlier where it ended at 80% and the rest was hype for other stuff.
But when you're trying to be cautious about spending your money on your primary source of entertainment, it works for me.
Just my USD .02.
Eric
OK, going to contribute to the 2c fundraiser here :) i don't think the number of pages matters a lot as long as you are aware exactly what you are purchasing i.e. you are not buying a 1000+ page epic as short read and vice versa. Some of the greatest works of fiction ever written have just 100 pages and in these 100 pages they carry the gravity and a message not necessarily and not usually contained in the much more voluminous works. So my advice would be - enjoy the ride for it may be short one but worthwile!
I don't really care how much a book will cost if it's something I really want to read. Let me back track a little....up to a certain point. I won't pay over $14.00 for any book on Kindle or for a paperback. I rarely buy hard back books except at thrift stores, garage sales or through half.com or Amazon. There are lots of free books out there. Some are really poorly written but I have found a few gems through bookshabit, book gorilla or some of the other free and bargain sites.
Number of words should be visible in Amazon for book's details.The Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America specifies word lengths for each category of its Nebula award categories:
Classification Word count
Novel over 40,000 words
Novella 17,500 to 40,000 words
Novelette 7,500 to 17,500 words
Short story under 7,500 words
Others have 50k as the low limit for a Novel.
Your best guide would be the file size. 300-500 kb should be around 350 pages, unless there are pictures or a high-res cover page.
Tarek,With all due respect, that doesn't work. I've found no correlation whatsoever between file size and number of pages. If the publisher just puts KB up and the blurb interests me enough, I'll go to the publisher's site and there they usually put page length and/or words or both. And 300KB could easily be 100 pages, especially if there's a cover included.
So as I said in a related post on another thread, most of us appreciate having either the number of pages (and we assume that that statement will be based on pages of comparable length to a regular mass market paperback, not the pages of a trade paperback with larger physical size, and larger type) or the number of words, from which we can do our own calculations.
Eric
Eric,Thank you for your honesty, it appears my guess was wrong.
Eric Alan wrote: "Tarek,With all due respect, that doesn't work. I've found no correlation whatsoever between file size and number of pages. If the publisher just puts KB up and the blurb interests me enough, I'll..."
You're welcome, and by the way, I downloaded your book. I'm looking forward to reading it.
Eric
Something I've been trying to find out is why the Kindle doesn't have an option to check word count for ebooks? Surely it's the most simple way of checking the length of a book? Number of pages means that you have to estimate the word count - why not just provide a check? It seems like a really obvious feature to miss out on and makes me wonder if there was a reason for it?Any thoughts?
I am really surprised that so many people are missing the obvious concerning how to know the number of pages in a Kindle book. Every book in the Kindle store has a page count. Why don't you just look at that? Am I missing something?
Dave wrote: "Jackie Renee wrote: "One way I can usually tell if a book is short or not is by how long the free sample is. If the sample is several chapters it's a pretty good assumption that the book is fairly..."
Yeah, that's a good idea.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
Nissim - you can tell the page length by pressing the top of the screen (on touch, anyway). The only problem is that this number is taken from the soft/hardback version so not all books have it.Why on earth they don't just do a word count I have no idea.
Amazon is getting better about providing an estimated page count - although, it might take a few days for new books to get it - it does seem to be on the lower side - I think they are using a base of 300-350 wpp to estimate
Getting a true page count on Amazon based on file size is tricky. For instance, I have an in process novel on there that is pre-published - mainly to verify it's formatting in various Kindle and Apple devices. A standard paperback novel contains around 250 words per page. I am around half-finished at 50,000 words = 200 printed pages. Amazon lists a file size of 937 KB = 110 pages. However, the Amazon file and page size relationship is all over the board. I have seen novels with smaller file sizes that have 300 or more pages listed as well as larger file sizes with 64 pages listed.
Perhaps Authors should take out the guesswork and simply state the word count in their books description...
there is no correlation between page count and file size - the file size just indicates text/graphics etcyou could have a huge file that is short because of images and lots of html coding
A long time ago, I actually typed out several full pages of separate paperback mainstream novels (not the trade size), and did the math. As noted above, they came out consistently in the 250-275 range.GR page counts, though, are no more accurate than AMZ's (although I do accept at face value an AMZ notation about "rea" page numbers). For example, I just completed a gay Regency called The Rake, The Rogue and the Roue...a free book at Love's Landscapes...which is just under 150,000 words (long, but a complex plot and fun characters, if I do say so myself, as shouldn't >s<), and GR says it has 410 pages. Which would be 365 words per page.
Any real paperback with that many words per page would require a magnifying glass to read, because I suspect that would have to be 10-point font size!
I'm going to include real page numbers (based on word count) and word counts in the blurbs from now on, so people have actual information direct from the...er...horse's mouth?
Just my USD .02.
Eric
I totally agree with the word count idea.
I noticed way too many non-fiction Kindle books around 30-40 pages. Is this the new book length?
Respectfully, those are not books. Those are short articles, perhaps, but I personally could never characterize them as books, nor would I pay the equivalent of a book's price to purchase one.Just my USD .02.
Eric
those "scam-phlets" as ppl refer to them, are people pulling wikipedia articles etc, and self-pub'ing on amazon to get money
Anca wrote: "I noticed way too many non-fiction Kindle books around 30-40 pages. Is this the new book length?"The book length on Kindle is rather useless since you don't get a real book length. Kindle finally updated the page count to 276 from 114. The trade paperback is 314 which is at least 350 on a standard paper book.
I don't consider those books. Booklets? Maybe. But they are everywhere! I never thought I'd look over the number of pages. I like concise non-fiction better, but selling 30 pages as a book...that's a stretch. Duane, I find the count quite reliable. My first book has 132 pages printed and 118 pages digital.
Is there some sort of guide out there that gives you a general idea of file size to page length ratio that I can reference so I won't make this mistake again?