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Questions > if dumbledore was the dark lord, could harry stood a chance?

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message 1: by Peng (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:05PM) (new)

Peng | 317 comments we were exposed to his original plan to join with grindezwald to overcome muggles but changed his mind. he then defeated grindezwald. and he was the only one tom riddle feared. but what if he turned out really bad, could harry defeat dumbledore if he were the darkest sorcerer in that time?

message 2: by Meghan (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:07PM) (new)

Meghan | 686 comments Hey Harry defeated Voldemort because he didn't know love so if Dumbledore was evil he wouldn't know love either. It would be just like Voldemort I guess.

message 3: by Peng (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:07PM) (new)

Peng | 317 comments well, yeah, but dumbledore taught harry everything. there would probably someone else who would have taught harry those stuffs to defeat whoever the dark lord was, but if it was dumbledore and he knew those stuffs, won't he be making counter attacks on harry's moves?

message 4: by Jane (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:08PM) (new)

Jane Dumbledore said that Voldemort marked Harry as his enemy when he interpreted the prophecy to mean Harry was the one to fear. If Voldemort hadn't chosen Harry as a baby then Harry might never have grown up to be the one to defeat Voldemort. Dumbledore explains that very clearly, along with the fact that Harry has a choice in the matter. So it's a moot point to me and you could have easily asked if Dumbledore HAD been the Dark Lord then would Voldemort have challanged and beat him and would Harry have even been born?

message 5: by Meghan (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:08PM) (new)

Meghan | 686 comments Well, I think that Harry would have had another mentor to teach him the things Dumbledore taught him.

message 6: by Rachel (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:09PM) (new)

Rachel (rachelbrandt) | 7 comments probably not. Without Dumbledore he would not have been able to ward off any dark lord.

message 7: by Peng (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:10PM) (new)

Peng | 317 comments you seem to forget, jane, that dumbledore is the only person voldemort fears. so if they challenged, dumbledore is a sure winner.

i got your drift, too, bre, after reading it several times. lol! but i'm just so impressed with dumbledore's wisdom and yet not crossing that line to "evilness" (macgonagall said he wouldn't do dark magic because he was too "noble") and yet we were told in the last book that he was at that brink of planning to rule over the muggles with grindezwald that's why i thought of this topic. voldemort's mistake was not hearing the full prophesy resulting to his marking of harry (as jane stated) but if it were dumbledore he would have known his steps and plan them carefully. i guess that acquisition of knowledge of your enemy was what saved harry and he owed it all to dumbledore. if it was just him in all his actions, it would be just pure luck (as voldemort & the deatheaters so thought).

message 8: by Jane (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:10PM) (new)

Jane I get what your point is Peng, but it's like my seventh grade health teacher pointed out - we are all unique. I am the youngest child in my family - one older sister. No matter that we shared the same house and the same parents, I can never REALLY know my parent's the way my sister knew them and vice versa. Our experiences are similar, not the same. So had Dumbledore used his powers for evil we don't know that Voldemort would have feared him. In fact, without Dumbledore's strength of character (as a good guy) watching over young Tom Riddle how would Riddle have even turned out - he could have become an Umbridge - on the "good" side, but still ultimately evil. Even still consider this - without Dumbledore even being one of his professors what would Voldemort have become? He might have had a professor who pushed Dark Arts rather than protecting the kids from it. Also, what if Dumbledore had been evil and ruled the muggles from his early life would Riddle even have got out of the orphanage? How would half-bloods have been treated? Would someone like Lily Potter have been admitted to Hogwarts? It's all butterfly effect and chaos theory and "It's a Wonderful Life." You can ask the question, and it's a good question, but part of the answer has to be that it's moot because everything would have been different...

message 9: by Cathy (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:11PM) (new)

Cathy | 50 comments I disagree, Voldemort feared a lot of people. Harry was one of them. But he feared ALL of his death eaters, he feared the Order, he feared Dumbledore; and his haste to kill and maim is an indicator of that fear. Rather than face the people who were challenging him or may have power over him -- he killed them. He also killed randomly -- people in his way such as Cedric. But as a true sociopath, Voldemort would not have recognized that fear, nor would ever be able to see his wrong-doing as evil. He felt fully justified for his actions.

message 10: by Alistair (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:11PM) (new)

Alistair | 6 comments uh-huh. right. I think that he knew what he was doing was wrong, and enjoyed it. He definitley did not fear his death eaters. no way. Oh, and i don't think harry would stand much of a chance against dumbledore if he was bad. If something amazing happened, and the bad dumbledore was distracted, then he might do something, but other than that i don't think harry would make it. And if dumbledore is bad, then is snape for harry, and is voldy good?

message 11: by Meghan (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:11PM) (new)

Meghan | 686 comments Oh, good question Alistair. Maybe this would make more sense if we decided in this topic whether we are switching voldy and Dumbledore or if both would be bad, if Snape would be Harry's teacher, etc.
Then this might make a lot more sense. I don't know about you, but this is getting really confusing.

message 12: by Meghan (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:11PM) (new)

Meghan | 686 comments You know, I reread some of this and it accurred to me that, if Dumbledore was evil and Voldemort grew up with Dumbledore watching him then maybe he still would have feared him. He probably would think he'd have to defeat him in order to become the most powerful wizard.

message 13: by Peng (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:12PM) (new)

Peng | 317 comments come to think of it, you're right, meghan. but the thing with dumbledore (wether he's good or bad) is he can really defeat voldemort in the first place but he just chose to give him a chance to change. he wouldn't stoop to voldemort's level of just killing people (muggles or wizards). if he did, i know it would be easy for him to kill voldemort. but as he said to harry, "it is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." that's why i'm very glad he chose to be good because i don't think harry stands a chance against dumbledore.

message 14: by Amy Marie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:12PM) (new)

Amy Marie (amy_marie97) | 26 comments uh...hm...I'd rather not answer that...cause i have no idea.

I won't even speculate. Because if Dumbledoor was a dark Lord, Tom would have never come to Hogwarts (or been under his watchful eye) and may never have become evil. But we don't know...do we ^_^

message 15: by Alistair (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:13PM) (new)

Alistair | 6 comments Oh, and that kind of brings up the question would harry be the one with the scar at all? Maybe if dumbledore were evil, then would Neville be the one with the scar and harry is leading a normal life(sort of)?!? This is really weird. What if someone wrote a new series about it? That would be nice. But then jo would have to share the copyright stuff.

message 16: by Hazalee (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:15PM) (new)

Hazalee | 2 comments If Dumbledore is evil then Harry could be a great apprentice to follow him.From my opinion from the first story,i have ideas that Harry could be the next heir to Salazar Slytherin.He could be a great sorcerer since he have the bravery of Godric Gryffindor & the cunning mind of Salazar Slytherin.

message 17: by Peng (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:15PM) (new)

Peng | 317 comments yikes! creepy! a dark harry potter.... ^_^

message 18: by Jane (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:16PM) (new)

Jane Harry only had any relationship to Slytherin through his being a horcrux of Voldemort's. Tom Riddle was the heir of Slytherin. Dumbledore explains that early on - Voldemort passed parseltongue and other traits into Harry when he "marked" him. I think once the piece of Voldemort's soul was destroyed Harry "lost" those powers (and was probably thankful for that).

message 19: by Meghan (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:16PM) (new)

Meghan | 686 comments Okay this is gitting really confusing. What about Snape? Would he be good or bad? And Wormtail? I think Wormtail would be on Dumbledore's side because he always wants to be with the biggest bully (if Dumbledore was evil).

message 20: by Scott (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:21PM) (new)

Scott (scottak) | 4 comments no because then they would boh have love and dumbledore would have more magical skill

message 21: by Kidz (new)

Kidz | 33 comments harry would not have stood a chance.
dumbledore taught him about the horcruxes and every thing else that helped him to deafeat voldemort and besides dumbldore never liked the greater good thing as much as grinlwald wich means he'd problbly be able to love.
plus dumbledore's the greatest wizard.

message 22: by Sanskriti (last edited Feb 02, 2008 09:39PM) (new)

Sanskriti you're probably right,jane, but it could be that the powers that voldemort transferred into harry were permanently done so..and no removal of horcrux from harry's body could take away those powers.
but harry wouldnt use them for wrong reasons obviously.
so if dumbledore was the dark lord, he wouldnt have told harry about his powers anyway..coz harry could've used them against him later.

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