A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion

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Big Reveal in Dance (First 250 pages) SPOILERS

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message 1: by Tobin (last edited Jul 16, 2011 11:22AM) (new)

Tobin | 7 comments So wow...don't continue reading unless you have read at least the first 240 pages of Dance. (view spoiler)
-tpl


message 2: by Clark (new)

Clark Coston (tesko) | 44 comments Remember the House of the Undying? "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire."


message 3: by Tobin (last edited Jul 16, 2011 08:28AM) (new)

Tobin | 7 comments Clark wrote: "Remember the House of the Undying? "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.""

Yeah...I do remember that, in Dany's story right? It just doesn't seem like Aegon's story is of ice and fire. Lots of fire, yes...I just don't see the ice yet. Jon Snow's story however, if he was born of Lyanna and Rhaegar is, although the revelations in Davos' story call that into question a bit.

-tpl


message 4: by Mach (new)

Mach | 198 comments @Tobin (view spoiler)


message 5: by Aly (last edited Jul 16, 2011 11:09AM) (new)

Aly (Alygator) | 113 comments Tobin, I'm not sure if Davos's revelations call that into question. Just cause, how can we know how much Davos knows for sure???

(view spoiler)

The HTML code is < spoiler > type spoiler here < / spoiler> just without the spaces


message 6: by Tobin (new)

Tobin | 7 comments Aly, thanks for the code.

Machiavelli, what (view spoiler)

-tpl


message 7: by Aly (new)

Aly (Alygator) | 113 comments Tobin, not a problem!! I agree with your assessment re Davos's info.


Jayme(the ghost reader) (jaymeiltheghostreader) | 1113 comments I have to say these view spoilers are driving me nuts. It already says spoiler in the title. Is is really necessary to type the html code when discussing this book?


message 9: by Aly (new)

Aly (Alygator) | 113 comments I think it's more of a precaution in case someone accidently clicks on the discussion. It doesn't take much more work and if it saves someone from being spoiled, I'm ok with it.


message 10: by Mach (new)

Mach | 198 comments (view spoiler)


message 11: by Tobin (last edited Jul 16, 2011 01:15PM) (new)

Tobin | 7 comments Machavelli wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

People believe it because of the strength and honor in Ned's character. There are also a great number of hints dropped throughout the 1.7 million words written so far (I'm only 300p into Dance so this is written with that caveat).

1) Robert Baratheon went to war over Rhaegar's kidnapping of Lyanna Stark
2) Rhaegar and Elia's marriage has been described as less than loving
3) Rhaegar and Lyanna were said to look upon one another lovingly
4) The timing works with the kidnapping of Lyanna, and the birth/age of Jon.
5) Ned using the term "of my blood" to describe Jon
6) With Ned's abhorring the killing of children (explicitly in Dany) it would not be a leap in logic to see him wanting to protect even the bastard child of Rhaegar.

So while there is no explicit claim that he IS Targaryen, there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence to that effect. Yes, his mother was said to be "Wylla" however she could be a milkmother or some other friend who took Jon to protect him.

I'm still not convinced 100% that R+L=Jon but GRRM has woven that tapestry so finely that another explanation completely eludes me.

-tpl


message 12: by Mach (last edited Jul 16, 2011 01:24PM) (new)

Mach | 198 comments (view spoiler)


message 13: by Lina (last edited Jul 16, 2011 04:51PM) (new)

Lina (lcyberlina) | 44 comments Machavelli wrote: (view spoiler)

I am not as conviced. It is still second hand info. (view spoiler)


message 14: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Machavelli wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

The way I see it. Jon is a beloved character and it would be nice to know he is more that just a ''bastard''... I mean, even if he was R+L's son, he would still be a bastard, but still... I don't think he will be R+L's son, because it is too obvious in a way, but knowing Ned, he might not be his son. And the promise he made his sister is also a mistery... for now...


message 15: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Tobin wrote: "So wow...don't continue reading unless you have read at least the first 240 pages of Dance. [spoilers removed]
-tpl"


I was shocked as well!! The leading up to it... I was like - WHO? WHO? Just say it already, Tyrion!
And then it was like - SNAP! Nice development, GRRM!


Jayme(the ghost reader) (jaymeiltheghostreader) | 1113 comments Anyone else find Hadhzir zo Loraq annoying? I want to slap him silly. Dany has refused his request six times and yet he keeps coming.


message 17: by Chris (new)

Chris  (haughtc) Jayme(the ghost reader) wrote: "Anyone else find Hadhzir zo Loraq annoying? I want to slap him silly. Dany has refused his request six times and yet he keeps coming."

Yes, definitely.


Jayme(the ghost reader) (jaymeiltheghostreader) | 1113 comments I don't know how she can put up with him and then he brings like six more guys to argue his case. But then again, they don't know anything different.


message 19: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments He really wants those fighting pits!


Jayme(the ghost reader) (jaymeiltheghostreader) | 1113 comments No kidding. They need to get a life and move on. Find another way to make money.


message 21: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments She kind of destroyed all the knew, took their slaves... I say-If people want to fight, let them fight. As long as it's their choice.


Jayme(the ghost reader) (jaymeiltheghostreader) | 1113 comments I don't agree with that. She did offer them to join her but they rather kill themselves. I just find it pointless.


message 23: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I still think they have a right to choose...


Jayme(the ghost reader) (jaymeiltheghostreader) | 1113 comments I am not saying they don't have a right to choose. It isn't like the society is so horrible that it is kill or be killed. It's that way because society made these people so. No kid just wakes up and says "Oh I want to kill 10 men today" just for the hell of it. Why would they choose to kill others. I think they want the opportunity of a new life. It's very gladiator type fighting. If you are the best, you live high off the hog. I am sure not all of these men did.


message 25: by Lina (new)

Lina (lcyberlina) | 44 comments Now that we know who the second (or the first) head of the dragon is, what do you think this means for Dany? Will she join him in Dorne or will she go against him thinking he is an impostor?


message 26: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Lina wrote: "Now that we know who the second (or the first) head of the dragon is, what do you think this means for Dany? Will she join him in Dorne or will she go against him thinking he is an impostor?"

I think she might be suspicious at first, angry even... But maybe that will finally make her move and go back to Westeros...


message 27: by Molly (new)

Molly (mollyfarseer) | 5 comments Jon Snow is him?

(view spoiler)

And about the girl?

(view spoiler)


message 28: by Dionna (new)

Dionna | 308 comments Lina wrote: "Machavelli wrote: [spoilers removed]

I am not as conviced. It is still second hand info. The guys in the Sisterton isles appear to be prone to exaggeration and propagating false rumors. Read that ..."


I agree. It sounded more like a giant fishtale of fisherman versus having any truth to it. Even Robert had a hard time beleiveing that Ned, of all people, would put aside his honor for a roll in the hay.


message 29: by Dionna (new)

Dionna | 308 comments Maja wrote: "She kind of destroyed all the knew, took their slaves... I say-If people want to fight, let them fight. As long as it's their choice."

I agree. It is not her city, yet she wants to impart her beliefs on them. What will happen when she leaves? They will continue as they were before her. She has the nerve to call Robert the Usurper, but she is doing the exact same thing, without any rights to the throne.


message 30: by Delia (new)

Delia | 2 comments Tobin wrote: "Machavelli wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

I'm still not convinced 100% that R+L=Jon but GRRM has woven that tapestry so finely that another explanation completely eludes me.



I totally agree. I've been hoping all along that Jon was really Lyanna's son. We will just have to wait and see, hopefully not six more years.



message 31: by Cristina (new)

Cristina (cristinavanessa) I know this is kind of random, but after reading that Aegon was alive, and keeping that Jon may be a Targaryen bastard, I wondered if he was the third head to the dragon.


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