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Debates > Gay Marriage

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message 1: by Sara (new)

Sara Roethle (saracroethle) Yeah, I went there ;). What's your opinion?


message 2: by Megan (new)

Megan | 134 comments I'm a Christian, and while I don't support gay marriage, it's not my right to say that someone else shouldn't do it. First of all, not everyone is Christian, and secondly, I know that I don't like having my rights taken away. But, then again a man is made to be with a woman, whether you're Christian or not. There's some other complications with it. So I'm sorta on the fence with this. I guess I'm neutral.


message 3: by Sara (new)

Sara Roethle (saracroethle) @Megan I really admire your perspective. So many conflicts occur in this world from people trying to push their beliefs on others. Do what's right for you, and others will do the same. I'm 100% for gay marriage. It doesn't hurt anyone.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm all for gay marriage. Its peoples lives not anyone else's and they should do what they want with them. If theyre attracted to the same sex then that's on them, its their choice and people shouldn't make them be or do something they don't want to be or do.


message 5: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) I, personally, don't support it. It's not because I'm a homophobe, or insensitive to peoples' rights or whatever. I just don't agree with it and that's really all there is to it.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

You don't have to but they do. Its no ones choice about whether they're gay or not and its not fair that because people disagree with it that they can't live their lives the way they want.


message 7: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Yeah, sure. People can do whatever they want. But the definition of marriage is between one man and one wife, and I don't think that should be changed.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

It shouldn't matter about sex. What should matter is about two people happy together no matter what their sex is.


message 9: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Well, you could say the same thing about a fifty-year-old who wants to marry a twelve-year-old. For me, it's not an issue of what everyone else thinks. I get to a point where I just say, "I don't care what politics say. I don't think this is right". And there won't be anything anyone can say to change my mind. I've already accepted that nearly everybody disagrees with me, but I'm still allowed to voice my opinion about it.


message 10: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 14, 2011 10:01PM) (new)

In some places people don't live past their twenties so their parents make them get married at a young age so they don't have a choice. Just like how its not anyone's choice to take away someones rights to marry who they chose


message 11: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Hun, what's the point in having an opinion place if you're going to put me down for what I think? This is what I believe, scientifically and religiously, and you aren't gonna be able to change that about me.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

I didn't mean to put you down and I'm not trying to change your opinion because its not mine to change. I'm just saying what I think about it.


message 13: by Brigid ✩ (last edited Jul 15, 2011 05:37AM) (new)

Brigid ✩ Oh, man. I could go on for ages about this. And it's hard for me to voice my opinion without making it sound like I'm disrespecting anyone. So to make it clear ... I respect Christianity and I understand Christian beliefs. I'm agnostic, so I just don't share those beliefs.

I wholeheartedly support gay marriage and being gay in general. Of course, I live in Massachusetts. ;) And a great deal of my high school's population was LGBTQ kids. It was a very open and accepting community, which I loved. (One of the few things I liked about my high school.)

Once when I was a freshman, a group of LGBTQ kids from the GSA came to my Health class to talk to us about sexual orientation. One guy said, "If being gay was a choice, no one would be gay."

And that always stuck with me. Being gay isn't a choice. We don't choose who we are. We don't choose who we love. And why should someone be judged because of what gender he/she is attracted to?

Love is love. Plain and simple. I know I can't force that idea upon anyone, but ... well, if you don't like gay marriages then don't get one. I don't see why gay couples should be deprived the right to get married.

*Steps off soapbox*


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

*cheers* there's finally someone that agrees with me!!


message 15: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Well, I was the only one who disagreed; I just post a lot. XD

I also don't think people "choose" to be homosexual, but I don't believe one is born that way, seeing that nobody is born with anything except their features. We develop personality and preferences through life. The same is true for what sort of people we like, including gender; even if it's not a conscious choice.


message 16: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "Well, I was the only one who disagreed; I just post a lot. XD

I also don't think people "choose" to be homosexual, but I don't believe one is born that way, seeing that nobody is born with anythin..."


You're sort of contradicting yourself there. If it's subconscious, then it's not a choice. And why would someone "choose" to be gay, when they are often faced with such hostility? And we're born with more than just our features. We're also born with hormones and instincts.


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

Really? I thought someone else had disagreed :P

Yeah, so people shouldn't be mean about it. I mean there's always a gay person in every family.


message 18: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Kk wrote: "Really? I thought someone else had disagreed :P

Yeah, so people shouldn't be mean about it. I mean there's always a gay person in every family."


Megan also sort of disagreed.


message 19: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) What I mean is I don't believe it when people say, "People are born gay." You aren't born with preferences toward one thing or another; things in your life lead to that, like your family, and your upbringing. It's like, I never really chose to like guys with blue eyes, but something makes me think that way. However, it's not a preference I was "born" with, if you know what I mean.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

She did? Oh..


message 21: by Adriana (new)

Adriana (adrinori) I think that if i as a woman have the right to marry the man i love, a woman that wants to marry a woman or a man that wants to marry a man should have that right i mean they are human and deserve to be happy like straight people and to deny them that right to get married is so damm stupid...Put your self in a gay persons shoes and see how you feel if someone told you, you cannot marry the person you love for whatever reason...it would hurt so they deserve every right just like us.....thats what i think....Love is love it should not matter what sex you fall in love with....


message 22: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "What I mean is I don't believe it when people say, "People are born gay." You aren't born with preferences toward one thing or another; things in your life lead to that, like your family, and your ..."

Well, it's not as if babies are attracted to other babies at all. So if you're looking at it that way, no one is born either gay or straight. And I don't see how your family or upbringing would lead you to be gay. After all, a lot of gay people are shunned by their own families.


message 23: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) I brought this up in another group, and people took is a bit too literally, but I'll try again here.

When I read The Mortal Instruments, I wanted my friend to read it, too. I'd already read all three. She's is HUGELY for gay rights, basically the opposite of me. But she was incredibly grossed out by the idea of Jace and Clary. She said she wouldn't read any more of it until she knew if they were related or not.

So what's the difference? If love is love, then why do people I know who support gay rights until their dying breath be so utterly against a brother loving his sister? I just get confused with that argument that it's nobody's choice, but nobody stands up and says something like, "Well, I want to marry my father. That should be okay, too." They'd be seen as weird and unnatural.

So what's the difference?


message 24: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Brigid: My mother was a counselor to teenagers for many years. She once told me that most cases of kids who were homosexual, they had abusive parents, or there were alcoholics/drug addicts around them, or they never felt accepted for who they were. I'm not saying that's true of all homosexuals, but upbringing does actually come into play.

And yes, nobody is born gay or straight. People are (forgive the term) "naturally" straight because that's the way it's always been; since way back when, when sex was for procreating and not for pleasure, it took a man and a woman to create a life.


message 25: by [deleted user] (new)

The difference is that its your family and you shouldn't be marrying your dad/brother/sister/mom/ect.


message 26: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) But WHY.
If love is love, wouldn't those people have the same right?


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes, but its different. Its not right to marry your family


message 28: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) HOW COME?
What makes that "not right", but when someone else says, "I don't think it's right to love someone of the same sex", they're looked down upon as not being accepting of others?


message 29: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ I don't understand the parallelism between gay marriage and incest.

By instinct, we are naturally appalled at the idea of having sex with our siblings, parents, etc. Why? Because it would create deformed offspring.

Unlike incest, being gay doesn't hurt anyone. No, a gay/lesbian couple can't have children with each other, but they can still raise healthy children through artificial insemination, adoption, etc. Therefore it's not unnatural because it has no harm on nature.


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

Because its just the same sex and not your family members. Marrying the same sex is righter than marrying your family.


message 31: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) By instinct, we're generally naturally attracted to the same sex, too, though.

But an answer like that would make sense (the one you gave, Brigid). It's just...the argument "love is love" doesn't make sense, because...well, those same people turn around and say a different kind of love isn't alright.

It's just that the same way someone else might say, "Incest just isn't right", I say "Homosexuality just isn't right". It's one of those issues where you can't really change a person's mind about it, but there just should be a better argument than "love is love".


message 32: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "Brigid: My mother was a counselor to teenagers for many years. She once told me that most cases of kids who were homosexual, they had abusive parents, or there were alcoholics/drug addicts around t..."

You're saying kids usually become gay because their parents abuse them? Do you have statistics to back you up on that?

Of all the gay kids I know, they have very loving and accepting families. So to me, that sounds entirely implausible.


message 33: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Kk wrote: "Because its just the same sex and not your family members. Marrying the same sex is righter than marrying your family."

This is the kind of argument that doesn't make sense to me. What makes it that way? It's totally unfair of me to think that both aren't okay? But it's a bit hypocritical to say that one is okay adn not the other, with that being your only defense.


message 34: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Brigid: I'm just relaying what my mom said from her counseling sessions frrom years and years. She noticed a pattern in her own patients; like I said, that doens't apply to everybody, but it does apply to some. She said that they didn't seem to be accepted for who they were in their homes, so they went in an opposite direction when they got our of the situation.

But once again, like I said, that was only true of her patients, who needed counseling in the first place. People from happy families don't need counseling to begin with, so of course happy people won't be counted in her own little study.


message 35: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "Brigid: I'm just relaying what my mom said from her counseling sessions frrom years and years. She noticed a pattern in her own patients; like I said, that doens't apply to everybody, but it does a..."

So, in other words, she only counseled people who had problems. Some of those people happened to be gay. That doesn't mean there's a relationship between the two.


message 36: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) The kids who claimed they never felt accepted by their families where the only ones who were unsure about their sexuality. Kids can have problems with their parents, but having not said anything about wanting a sense of acceptance, she formed a connection between the two things.


message 37: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) It won't be true ALL THE TIME. Nothing ever is.

Anyway, I need to go to sleep, so we can continue talking in the morning, if you guys want to.


message 38: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "Kk wrote: "Because its just the same sex and not your family members. Marrying the same sex is righter than marrying your family."

This is the kind of argument that doesn't make sense to me. What ..."


I don't know if I can explain this any better than I already have.

Incest is far less common than being gay. Like I said, it's an instinct to not have sexual relationships with family, because then you could not produce healthy children. However, gay couples can have sex without getting pregnant. And they can still raise children, even if they can't produce them. They're not hurting anyone by being married and/or having sex.

I stand by my argument that love is love. That doesn't mean that I, personally, would engage in any type of relationship. People should do what makes them happy. Frankly, if someone wants to have sex with their mom, with a cat, with a pineapple ... I don't care. I wouldn't do these things myself, but if the people involved are happy, why should I bother them? For me, personally, these things would weird me out and I would not be comfortable with them. Just as I would not be comfortable in a lesbian relationship. But that doesn't mean it's wrong.


message 39: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "The kids who claimed they never felt accepted by their families where the only ones who were unsure about their sexuality. Kids can have problems with their parents, but having not said anything ab..."

I think you're explaining this backwards. Probably these kids felt a detachment from their families and a lack of acceptance because they were gay to begin with. It wasn't detachment from their families that caused them to be gay.


message 40: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "It won't be true ALL THE TIME. Nothing ever is.

Anyway, I need to go to sleep, so we can continue talking in the morning, if you guys want to."


I also need to sleep. Wow, it's 2 AM. *yawns* Well, we can continue tomorrow. :) *waves*


message 41: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) It's nice to have a debate, and then end it for the night with a smile. People usually end up hating me by the end. x)

(I'd respond, but I think I'll fall asleep, mid-sentence, hahahah.)


message 42: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Haha, well I don't take debates personally. I just like to argue about things. But I'm friends with a lot of people who have very different beliefs than I do. When I debate, it's not to make enemies out of anyone. ;)


message 43: by Cassandra (new)

Cassandra (cassandrarichards) | 8 comments Oh, boy. This is a touchy topic with me, because my Uncle is gay. I love my uncle with every fiber in my being and he is the most wonderful person to be around. And I have this thing with where if you disrespect my family, I kind of get a little defensive.

With that being said, I agree 100000000% (maybe even more than that.) with gay marriage. I am a christian and I believe in God and all that, but I still believe we have free will for a reason. Why does your gender or anything stop you from being absolutely happy? Also, its called SOUL mates for a reason. I believe your soul is not a gender or a exact species. It just is. And your soul mate is your soul mate.
Just putting my two cents in. :)


message 44: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Beautifully said, Cassandra. I like that. :)


message 45: by Madelyn (new)

Madelyn (mad31lina) | 309 comments All for it. I also think what Cassandra said was well put.


message 46: by Cassandra (new)

Cassandra (cassandrarichards) | 8 comments Madelyn wrote: "All for it. I also think what Cassandra said was well put."

♥ Brigid ♥ {Lion Hearted Girl} wrote: "Beautifully said, Cassandra. I like that. :)"

Thank you, girls! :D I was just stating my end. :)


message 47: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Thalia wrote: "Well, I was the only one who disagreed; I just post a lot. XD

I also don't think people "choose" to be homosexual, but I don't believe one is born that way, seeing that nobody is born with anythin..."


I second that and go for NO.


message 48: by Thalia (last edited Jul 15, 2011 02:26PM) (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Well, just so everyone knows.
My uncle is gay, too. Yeah, it was hard on all of us when he left his wife and three kids, but we accepted him. But it was him who chose to leave his family (including all of us; his brothers, his sister, his parents and their families), even after it'd been made clear that we were okay with it.

I love my uncle, too; love the person, disagree with what they do.

Anyway, about the counseling, nobody can know for sure, except that kid. I'm just explaining my mom's professional opinion, since she is a doctor.


message 49: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) *he who chose

grammar...>>


message 50: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS lol


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