Angels and Fallen Angels discussion

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Angel attributes > Other angel attributes: by definition, what is an angel?

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

By definition, what is an angel? And what are characteristics by which we might recognize them?


message 2: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments scent


message 3: by Arimenta (new)

Arimenta (arimentarose) | 1 comments i would tend to go by aura. even if you can't see an aura almost anyone can feel them. so if you were to stand beside an angel I'm sure you would feel calm and at peace.
~Arimenta


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

But angels don't always come in peace... it was an angel, acting as a harbinger of death and destruction, that brought word to Lot of the pending destruction of Soddom and Gomorah.


message 5: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments yes I believe there is good and bad in everything - even angles.... freewill to choose one or the other. My question is... is your guardian angel from heaven or hell???


message 6: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 17, 2011 10:59AM) (new)

Well, I would hope to God he or she was from heaven with God's blessing. I have to disagree with Milton...I'd much rather serve in Heaven than reign in Hell.


message 7: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments dito!


message 8: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Winter Frost Queen) (last edited Jul 15, 2011 09:06AM) (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Winter Frost Queen)  (gatadelafuente) | 143 comments I believe that angels are God's immortal messengers and servants who execute His divine will. They can be both guardian/protectors to humans and also they can be used to destroy humans who have done wickedness. Fallen angels are those who chose to disobey and reject God and fell as punishment.

Angels represent an unearthly beauty that has evidence of their divine creation by God, but are also fearsome and powerful in ways beyond human comprehension. I think most of the time angels will be invisible and may come in disguise, but they won't lie about their origin.


message 9: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Beautifully put Danielle, I agree whole hardheartedly with you description.


message 10: by Monique (new)

Monique James | 13 comments Just little tidbit...the angels The Keepers have a unique attribute. They are created in pairs and one can not live without the other. Yin and Yang so to speak and it's a beautiful relationship between the two. I love this thought...that they are not alone...that they have someone who loves them unconditionally....lol I'm a nerd though.


message 11: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
That's really interesting Monique, I've never heard that before. Where is this teaching from?


message 12: by Monique (new)

Monique James | 13 comments LOL I made it up. It was just sort of one of those things that evolved from the plot. Not real but a neat concept.


message 13: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments :) sometimes it is good to listen to your intuition. Who knows. You may very well be right!


message 14: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Well, I like it :)


message 15: by Monique (new)

Monique James | 13 comments Maybe, doesn't say a lot about angels in the Bible so we have to improvise sometimes.


message 16: by S.L.J. (last edited Jul 15, 2011 06:39PM) (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments Loyalty. Not for the Fallen Angels obviously, but the ones that still serve heaven would probably be 100% obidient. They'd follow orders without question even if they had doubts because (after what happened with Lucifer) they'd know what would happen if they didn't.


message 17: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 16, 2011 03:25PM) (new)

By definition, an angel is a non-human being created by God to serve him and not bound by the usual laws of physics that we are (my definition). As for attributes, one that I've picked up from books, is that there's an overwhelming sense of that being's power. In Gene Wolfe's "The Knight" and in Michael Moorcock's "The War Hound and the World's Pain," angels make an appearance. In the later of those two books, it's Lucifer himself, in traditionally angelic form, and in both cases, those in the presence of angels felt the overwhelming need to bow down, to prostrate themselves before the angels.

All free will and concious thought flees, the characters in the books in the angel's presence had no thought or desire except to submit and acknowledge the power of the angel before them. Their gestures of submission were utterly without any ability or even desire to resist the power of the angel's presence. And to me, this seems the most inevitable and tangible characteristic of an angel in the presence of a mortal. How else would we or could react to a semi-divine being that has gazed upon the face of God?


 Danielle The Book Huntress (Winter Frost Queen)  (gatadelafuente) | 143 comments Colleen wrote: "Beautifully put Danielle, I agree whole hardheartedly with you description."

Thanks, Colleen!


message 19: by S.L.J. (last edited Jul 26, 2011 04:57PM) (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments Craig wrote: "By definition, an angel is a non-human being created by God to serve him and not bound by the usual laws of physics that we are (my definition). As for attributes, one that I've picked up from book..."

Except that (if you believe the story of Lucifer's fall) the angels were asked to bow down and love/woreship/respect humans. I can imagine that kind of response in being in the presence of God (if a person could even handle that) but not in angels. I don't think they'd allow that sort of thing to happen because it would mean them directly influencing a human into loving them and not the other way around.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

But God's Word is supposedly final. It's interesting that angels have the capacity to rebel at all. Another dimension on the rebellion in heaven was given by Joseph Campbell who says in the Shi'ia Muslim tradition, Lucifer refused to bow to the humans not out of pride, but because he would only show that love to God. So it was out of devotion to God and not pride for himself that Lucifer refused God's command.


message 21: by S.L.J. (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments I've heard that side of it too. It's intresting that one side makes Lucifer a victim while the other makes him the enemy. I think Lucifer would probably consider himself a victim and that his 'fall' was an unfair punishment.

I've always found the whole subject to be really intresting.


message 22: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments Traditionally, Lucifer (English pronunciation: /ˈluːsɪfər, ljuːsɪfər/) is a name that in English generally refers to the devil before being cast from heaven, although this is not the original meaning of the term. In Latin, from which the English word is derived, Lucifer means "light-bearer" (from the words lucem ferre). It was the name given to the dawn appearance of the planet Venus, which heralds daylight. For this meaning, English generally uses the names "Morning Star" or "Day Star", and rarely "Lucifer".

Use of the name "Lucifer" for the devil stems from a particular interpretation of Isaiah 14:3–20, a passage that does not speak of any fallen angel but of the defeat of a particular Babylonian King, to whom it gives a title that refers to what in English is called the Day Star or Morning Star (in Latin, lucifer).[2] In 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere, the same Latin word lucifer is used to refer to the Morning Star, with no relation to the devil. It is only in post-New Testament times that the Latin word Lucifer was used as a name for the devil, both in religious writing and in fiction, especially when referring to him prior to his fall from Heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer


message 23: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Patti wrote: "Traditionally, Lucifer (English pronunciation: /ˈluːsɪfər, ljuːsɪfər/) is a name that in English generally refers to the devil before being cast from heaven, although this is not the original meani..."

Patti, were you a Biblical studies major?


message 24: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments Colleen wrote: "Patti wrote: "Traditionally, Lucifer (English pronunciation: /ˈluːsɪfər, ljuːsɪfər/) is a name that in English generally refers to the devil before being cast from heaven, although this is not the ..."

NO :) I'm a google studies major with a liking for wikipedia. I just love the subject with a passion. So much mystery.... old traditions, fact, fiction, good vs evil. At the end of the day it comes down to who is telling the story.


message 25: by Scarlet (new)

Scarlet Black | 23 comments I did alot of research for Salem Moon and The Fallen and the Pure. According to myth, Angels are the warriors of God. Ironically, there are only three named in the Christian bible, Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. However, even the Koran has descipription of Angels, but they are called "Jinn." There are 12 angels who stand before God, but only three named. There are also ranks of Angels, called the heirachy. Each one serves a different purpose. It is the Arc Angels and Seraphim that are highest. The Warriors. The fall from grace was a matter of pride and envy. Just thought I'd share some of what I've researched. For The Fallen and the Pure, I am now reading magick spells on how to Evoke Angels as it mixes Wicca, Witchcraft and Angels.

Best,
Scarlet Black


message 26: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments Scarlet wrote: "I did alot of research for Salem Moon and The Fallen and the Pure. According to myth, Angels are the warriors of God. Ironically, there are only three named in the Christian bible, Michael, Gabriel..."

Hi Scarlet - I liked reading your comment :) very informative.


message 27: by Scarlet (new)

Scarlet Black | 23 comments If anyone has more info on Angels, post it! It's a great help! Thank you Patti:)


message 28: by S.L.J. (last edited Aug 03, 2011 06:13AM) (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments Most of the scripture seems to suggest that Metatron (played by Alan Rickman in Dogma =)) is the highest ranking angel in all of Heaven. He is sort of the caretaker of God's throne. Michael is commander of the holy host (Heavens army) and Gabriel is the messager of God. A sort of Liason.

Archangels seem to be Heavens armed forces. They are the true warriors of God and are the ones that are sent to bestow his wrath, should the need arise.

Seraphims are also known as the burning ones because their power is so great. I read somewhere that Metatron shines almost as brightly as God and that he was actually confused with him when someone saw them standing side by side.

There's quite a bit of confusion when it comes to Lucifer but most agree that was his name before he was exiled and he has since been given hundreds of other names i.e. Satan, the Devil etc. Some believe that Lucifer was actually the most beautiful angel in Heaven and God's favorite and recieved more attention from him than any other angel so when God turned his affections to humans, he became jealous leading to his rebellion.


message 29: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments Scarlet wrote: "If anyone has more info on Angels, post it! It's a great help! Thank you Patti:)"

I love all this Angel stuff :)


message 30: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments Patti wrote: "Scarlet wrote: "If anyone has more info on Angels, post it! It's a great help! Thank you Patti:)"

I love all this Angel stuff :)"


Perhaps we should add out links to Angel books that we have written or that others have written??? what are your thoughts?


message 31: by Scarlet (new)

Scarlet Black | 23 comments My book, Salem Moon is already on the Angels/Fallen Angels shelf to read. I have a Q&A page too:) I love all Angel stuff too! Although, Salem Moon has an evil Fallen Angel as an adversary. The book is a time-travel paranormal romance, which takes place in Salem, Massachusetts during the Witch Trials of 1692 and then to 2010. Working on spells to evoke angels for book 2 which I'm writing now. I love the Angels group they are so awesome!


message 32: by S.L.J. (last edited Aug 03, 2011 08:54AM) (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments My series Blood Heavy will eventually revolve around angels and demons. At the moment it's only in the realm of supernatural monsters i.e. vampires, witches, werewolves etc but angels/demons will be the main focus.

Only the first book is out atm but I'm about halfway through writing the 2nd. Kinda like the TV show Supernatural.

My angels are not going to be all gentle and lovey-dovey. They're tough as nails and not to be messed with. I'm still wondering how to write Lucifer though. :S

P.S. Found this site which is really intresting and very helpful. - Fallen Angel Names


message 33: by Scarlet (new)

Scarlet Black | 23 comments Thanks for sharing the Fallen Angels Names! My Fallen Angels are lustful, seductive and can be downright cruel. They are the villains in Salem Moon after all! lol!


message 34: by S.L.J. (last edited Aug 03, 2011 10:29AM) (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments Scarlet wrote: "Thanks for sharing the Fallen Angels Names! My Fallen Angels are lustful, seductive and can be downright cruel. They are the villains in Salem Moon after all! lol!"

Cool. Just make sure you don't give them silly names like Patch. :P

P.S. I also found this intresting little story: Cosmonauts see angels in space


message 35: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments I have a few evil ones like Abaddon, Theria and Cerberus. just to name 3


message 36: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
LOL, I love that..."google studies major", I'm going to have to use that :)


message 37: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Scarlet, you said, "I am now reading magick spells on how to Evoke Angels as it mixes Wicca, Witchcraft and Angels",

Where do you find books like this? It sounds fascinating!


message 38: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Patti wrote: "Patti wrote: "Scarlet wrote: "If anyone has more info on Angels, post it! It's a great help! Thank you Patti:)"

I love all this Angel stuff :)"

Perhaps we should add out links to Angel books that..."


Absolutely! Feel free to start any threads or add any links that you want.


message 39: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Scarlet wrote: "My book, Salem Moon is already on the Angels/Fallen Angels shelf to read. I have a Q&A page too:) I love all Angel stuff too! Although, Salem Moon has an evil Fallen Angel as an adversary. The book..."

Ok, I have to ask...did you try out any of the spells evoking angels? Do they work...LOL


message 40: by Patti (new)

Patti Roberts | 27 comments Well I will start with my book Paradox - The Angels Are Here (Paradox #1) by Patti Roberts

And this one by Mary ting Crossroads by Mary Ting


message 41: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Sammy wrote: "My series Blood Heavy will eventually revolve around angels and demons. At the moment it's only in the realm of supernatural monsters i.e. vampires, witches, werewolves etc but ange..."

Sammy, I just read the write up on your book and it looks good. It sounds like its also comical, is that right?


message 42: by S.L.J. (last edited Aug 03, 2011 07:10PM) (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments Colleen wrote: "Sammy wrote: "My series Blood Heavy will eventually revolve around angels and demons. At the moment it's only in the realm of supernatural monsters i.e. vampires, witches, werewolve..."

I hope so. I tried to jam pack it with enough clever insults and sarcasm as humanly possible. :P

P.S. This might intrest you - Enochian (Some believe to be the language of the angels)


message 43: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Sammy wrote: "Colleen wrote: "Sammy wrote: "My series Blood Heavy will eventually revolve around angels and demons. At the moment it's only in the realm of supernatural monsters i.e. vampires, wi..."

I never heard of Enochian before but looking at some of the letters...they are Hebrew. I only know that because I took ancient Hebrew in college. This is fascinating.


message 44: by S.L.J. (last edited Aug 05, 2011 09:17AM) (new)

S.L.J. (sammyslj) | 16 comments I'm gonna have to quote Supernatural 5x20 on this...

Gabriel: Lucifer, you're my brother and I love you... but you are a great big bag of dicks!
Lucifer: What did you just say to me?
Gabriel: look at yourself, boohoo, daddy was mean to me so I'm gonna smash up all his toys!
Lucifer: Watch your tone.
Gabriel: Play the victim all you want, but you and me, we know the truth. Dad loved you best, more than Michael, more than me, then he brought the new baby home and you couldn't handle it, so all this is just a great big temper tantrum! Time to grow up!
Lucifer: Gabriel, if you're doing this for Michael then-
Gabriel: Screw him! If he were standing here I'd shive his ass too.
Lucifer: You disloyale little-
Gabriel: Oh, I'm loyale...to them...
Lucifer: To who, these so called Gods?
Gabriel: To people, Lucifer...people.
Lucifer: So you're willing to die for a pile of cockroaches, why?
Gabriel: Because dad was right...they are better than us!
Lucifer: They are broken, flawed abortions!
Gabriel: Damn right they're flawed...but alot of them try...to do better, to be better...and you should see the Spearmint Rhino...I've been riding the pine a long time, but I'm in the game now and I'm not on your side or Michaels...I'm on theirs!


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

Craig wrote: "By definition, what is an angel? And what are characteristics by which we might recognize them?"

I read they are beings of Light. They are also messengers.


message 46: by [deleted user] (new)

Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I believe that angels are God's immortal messengers and servants who execute His divine will. They can be both guardian/protectors to humans and also they can be used to destroy humans who have do..."

I also agree with you.


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

Does anyone remember passages that physically describe them?


message 48: by [deleted user] (new)

Craig wrote: "Does anyone remember passages that physically describe them?"

Well, I got some of my information from one of Billy Graham's books about about them and then more from Sylvia Browne. In Meetings with Angels they may be very big ..too big for a room or they may appear as a child in order not to frighten one.


(Meetings with Angels)

Angels: God's Secret Agents

Sylvia Browne's Book of Angels


message 49: by Colleen (new)

Colleen | 432 comments Mod
Craig wrote: "Does anyone remember passages that physically describe them?"

Craig,

Are you looking for passages from the Bible for descriptions? Or from another book?


message 50: by [deleted user] (new)

Bible or related scriptures of the time and place when angels appeared here on Earth.


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