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Writers Corner > Publishing on Amazon

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message 1: by Murdo (new)

Murdo Morrison Does anyone have experience or advice about publishing on Amazon with CreateSpace that they would be willing to share?


message 2: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments An indie acquaintance blogged about her experience. Try reading this: http://susan-bischoff.com/2011/01/31/...


message 3: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments I should add she sold 10000 copies of her YA novella in six months, so she's doing something right :)


message 4: by Murdo (new)

Murdo Morrison This was helpful. Thank you. I have ebook and audio versions but am getting questions about how to get the print version.


message 5: by Robin (new)

Robin (robinsullivan) | 4 comments I can highly recommend both CreateSpace and Lightning Source as well as the Digital Text Platform. I did a write up on the two on my blog a while ago. Click here


message 6: by Murdo (last edited Jul 15, 2011 04:48AM) (new)

Murdo Morrison Thanks for that. Your blog post is packed with useful information. I have started to format the book text using a template available at CreateSpace. It appears to be pretty straightforward. Do you have advice to share on possible format issues when publishing using CreateSpace?


message 7: by Dale (new)

Dale Ibitz (goodreadscomdale_ibitz) The only issue I had was not all of the paragrahs indented the same amount. Other than that, the template was cake. No issues here.


message 8: by Amy Eye (new)

Amy Eye | 98 comments Does anyone know if publishing to Amazon while trying to query 'taints' the MS? I have heard of people self pubbing to Amazon while still looking for agents. Has anyone heard of this? Do you know if this leaves a bad impression with the agents?


message 9: by Lexi (new)

Lexi Revellian (lexirevellian) | 43 comments My feeling is it should help if you have good sales to tell them about. In practice, my experience of submitting Replica to five agents, just to dip my toe in the water, was that all but one didn't mention my impressive sales figures in their rejections. It didn't seem to be a plus or a minus.

Surely this has to change, though?


message 10: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments That's really bizarre! You had good sales and the book was rejected? Makes me want to bang my head against a wall.


message 11: by Lexi (new)

Lexi Revellian (lexirevellian) | 43 comments Anne-Mhairi wrote: "That's really bizarre! You had good sales and the book was rejected? Makes me want to bang my head against a wall."

I feel really lucky to have been able to publish for Kindle, or I still wouldn't have sold a copy. Swings and roundabouts...


message 12: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments Paul wrote: "I self publish now, but some years ago I published with a traditional house on commission etc.... the publisher went bust and I didn't get one penny..... swings and roundabouts as ANNE-MHAIRI says..."

Oh my god, that SUCKS!!! I feel awful for you! I'm guessing your probably mostly over it by now but wow... And actually Lexi said that, but I concur. All this fuss about publishers and it really isn't always the grand, secure experience they make it out to be.


message 13: by Amy Eye (new)

Amy Eye | 98 comments Thanks for the information, Paul! Any and all input is very valuable!


message 14: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments I'm nervous about publishing but at the same time SO EXCITED!!! I'm actually enjoying this so much - even though knowing I'm the only person responsible for my book is really stressful, I'm also loving the challenge of having to do everything myself. If I ever end up with a publishing contract, I think having had this self-publishing experience will be really good, as it will have given me an insight into things I might not otherwise really be aware of.

@Paul: FOUR FIGURES??? Oh man, I'd be steaming. Although I'm assuming it was a while ago now. I hope you've exceeded that initial success with your self-publishing endeavours.


message 15: by Mhairi (last edited Jul 26, 2011 07:13AM) (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments I'm releasing on 27th October. Hopefully that will be enough time... :S I was going to publish 25th August but then realised I needed more time to do edits, get reviews, etc, etc, so I pushed it back. Thanks for the heads-up about the time lag!


message 16: by Mhairi (last edited Jul 26, 2011 11:36AM) (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments Just an aside, as far as b/w covers on Kindle goes, it's worth pointing out that the covers of the books I have on my iPod Touch via the Kindle app come up in colour. So it's literally only on the Kindle that they come up b/w. On other readers with colour capability, they will show in colour.

I'm assuming your publisher isn't a traditional publisher, if they're trying to charge you money to put your books on Kindle? Users.

I do still love books, but the iPod Touch has portability in its favour. I have 51 novels, novellas and short stories on it at the moment and that's only a fraction of the space available (I have the 64GB).


message 17: by C.S. Splitter (new)

C.S. Splitter | 46 comments I read on my laptop sometimes and covers are in color there.

Splitter


message 18: by Fred (new)

Fred Limberg | 12 comments I have no issue with the Kindle being b&w only, after all, it's the story I'm interested in. I got to see the color cover in the e-store. For me, it's that the kindle does one thing really well and that's give me pages I can easily read anywhere and less expensive books. I got the other toys for internet stuff.


message 19: by Dale (new)

Dale Ibitz (goodreadscomdale_ibitz) I heard that Apple will be blocking the kindle app on the ipod, iphone and ipad in order to start promoting their own ebook store...which no one's really using because their downloading kindle and nook apps!


message 20: by Amy Eye (new)

Amy Eye | 98 comments Dale wrote: "I heard that Apple will be blocking the kindle app on the ipod, iphone and ipad in order to start promoting their own ebook store...which no one's really using because their downloading kindle and ..."

I bet that will cause quite an uproar!


message 21: by Everly (new)

Everly Anders | 29 comments From what I notice, not that many people have had success using that website, but if you do, we would love to hear about it!
Elle


message 22: by Jeanine (last edited Sep 05, 2011 08:30AM) (new)

Jeanine (truejourney) | 12 comments Amy wrote: "Does anyone know if publishing to Amazon while trying to query 'taints' the MS? I have heard of people self pubbing to Amazon while still looking for agents. Has anyone heard of this? Do you kno..."

Hi, Amy. I believe Amanda Hocking got picked up by a publishing house after a while of self-publishing her books. I wouldn't think that having your books out there in the world would taint your chances of getting a literary agent. In fact, it might look better in your query letter that you've already taken the initiative.
But I do not know for sure, just my own thoughts :)


message 23: by James (new)

James Piper | 5 comments I wrote a detailed blog on my experiences and thoughts on e-book publishing. Here's the link: http://byjamespiper.blogspot.com/2011...


message 24: by Michael (new)

Michael (michaeljsullivan) | 63 comments @Amy - I think in the old day self-pubishing first made the book "dead" to publshers but that's not the case any more - I'm a living breathing proof of that as it was BECAUSE of my self-publishing that I got a six-figure 3-book deal with a big-six publisher.


message 25: by S.G. (new)

S.G. Rainbolt (hawnsa) | 2 comments Murdo wrote: "Does anyone have experience or advice about publishing on Amazon with CreateSpace that they would be willing to share?"

I spent about 5 months deciding which self-publishing service to use and eventually decided on CreateSpace/Amazon. However, I was not ignorant of the field (being a newsprint publisher in recent past). But like almost any ambitious author, getting a big publisher to notice you was impossible. For all the usual reasons but mostly because I wasn't willing to jump through the hoops they provided to trip you up.

So, I used CreateSpace but only for the printing & distributing. I did everything else (editing, design, layout, reader group, reviews, marketing, etc). I am glad I did because no matter what CreateSpace told you would happen, it didn't. To expect that you'd put up your out-of-pocket expense and then Amazon would carry you from there... sells and all. That was the discouraging part. Their royalty system is set up for you to make money if you price it $15 or more. I don't think anyone would be willing to pay that much for an author and book they never heard of (for example, I love Orson Scott Card's "Ender" series but it pained me to pay $15 for "Ender in Exile".... and this is after I already liked the series)

Finally, Amazon's 3rd party seller program is extremely irritating and somewhat a misrepresentation of your product. YOU list it on Amazon for, let say $7.99 but 8 other companies also list it but many at a lesser price like $5.94 or $6.05 and they claim they are "used" books. I never seen a dime from that and the word "used" is derogatory for a "newly" published book. Too, to keep competitive with industry prices you will have to swallow the fact if you do sell your book to Books-a-million or Barnes & Noble you'll only make $.15 cents a copy. Now, most of these retailers are stopping print-on-demand books (self-publish books) from going on store shelves. Why? Because there is a lot of "bad" ones out there.

So, my advice is if you self-publish partner up with someone that took the time and took the blows to get his/her own book out there. Partner up with someone that is or will be established as a retail book vendor (for Walmart, or Walgreens, etc). If you self-publish you can't sell directly to them. However, if you publish with a small publisher (they are as hungry as you) they can get in with retailers directly - cutting out the nice $4-6 royalty Amazon pays themselves and giving it to you.

Well, this has been my experience. Though its tough. I wouldn't change it because it made me a better publisher. I will still more than likely use CreateSpace for my second book (they have the printers).


message 26: by Michael (new)

Michael (michaeljsullivan) | 63 comments My wife has done a pretty through write up about CreateSpace and Lightning Source on her blog that is worth a read for those that are interested in doing POD.


message 27: by Marianne (last edited Oct 08, 2011 08:17AM) (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments Hi Everyone,
just been reading all your comments. It's so helpful to hear others' publishing (self or POD or otherwise) experiences. So a special thanks to you, Murdo, for starting this thread. And, to SG, I really appreciated reading about the hard financial facts of publishing, some of which I knew and some of which I didn't, and a comment, which really resonated was "partner up with someone that took the time and took the blows to get his/her own book out there." I did just this (literally!). After a publisher showed interest in my novel, but then said it would take a "year" before he could get back to me about it, I decided I'd had enough (there had also been numerous "positive rejections", too numerous to mention!). I teamed up with my husband, who has some desktop publishing experience and is also an author (of non-fiction books) to publish my debut novel. We worked together on the cover and the copy editing but got in a professional proofreader for that side of things. Because my husband was as passionate as me about the novel, we (well, that's the "royal" we, because it was all him), worked at it until we produced the best we could. The result is a fantastic cover and an excellent professional finished product. This polished finish made all the difference to the way it was received and lead to the book being stocked in physical book shops, as well as to invitations to library events and book festivals etc. Despite some considerable success, for the first few months after the launch of the book (at the end of 2010), I felt almost ashamed that we had 'self published'. However, I feel the opposite now for various reasons. Firstly, I didn't realise how little control writers have over the book once it goes to a "regular publisher". Secondly, I didn't realise how many authors have very poor and unhappy relationships with their publishers. Thirdly, I didn't realise just how little money can be made going through a regular publisher – a relatively well known writer I met told me that she had sold 12,000 copies of her book and had got one penny per book in royalties and so had made exactly £120 pounds, which beggars belief. Another author had been dropped because the sales of her book (her eight novel, by the way) dipped below 20,000 copies that year. It seems, which is what some of you have also been saying, that having a regular publisher is not all that it is made out to be. Nine months down the line or so since becoming a published author, I have shed all notions of shame or embarrassment about being self published. I am now proud of what my husband and I have achieved (and he is now developing Pilrig Press and hoping to publish other authors). I love the fact that I am answerable to myself, and occasionally to Marc, my long suffering partner in crime :o) Of course, it's been a steep learning curve, especially the marketing side of things and dealing with book shops and wholesalers etc, and we've made mistakes but we're learning by them all the time. We will be publishing my next book next year, and we will most certainly be bringing it out in Kindle form and all other ebook forms. E-publishing is something we've come to more recently but I love ebooks and ebook sites – E-publishing allows us writers to be directly responsible for our own successes - and/or failures. If I had not self published, I would still be waiting for that "publisher" to get back to me. So, I suppose I'm saying we writers should do what we can to get our work out there, all the while making sure it looks as professional and polished as it can be. If companies like Create Space/Amazon and Lightning Source help us to do that,all the better.
Hm ... oops, think I may have completely got side-tracked. Sorry. But a couple of questions before I go, how important is the cover of en e-book? Is it as important as the cover of a paperback? Should e-books and paperbacks have different covers?
Thanks again, all. Really appreciated reading your comments.
ps Mhairi - good luck with the launch of your book on 27th October, will look out for it!


message 28: by Murdo (last edited Oct 08, 2011 09:46AM) (new)

Murdo Morrison I think that the cover for the ebook is every bit as important as the cover for a print book. I chose to use the same cover for both in my novel Roses of Winter. The cover is like a brand logo for the book and it helps the reader identify it. Also, why go through the effort of creating two separate covers for the same book?


message 29: by S.G. (new)

S.G. Rainbolt (hawnsa) | 2 comments I have seen them with different covers. I have known authors to try out a "new image" or "new cover" when publishing ebooks (after their paperback). Some just take their original and changed the color hue... anyway I think works. I do plan to have a different cover on my ebook... let me know of your success!


message 30: by Marianne (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments Murdo wrote: "I think that the cover for the ebook is every bit as important as the cover for a print book. I chose to use the same cover for both in my novel Roses of Winter. The cover is like a brand logo for ..."

Hi Murdo, I agree! That said, I just wondered if anyone had done any research to see if there was a difference between how we perceive/react to e-covers on the screen (which are sometimes just thumbnail size), and print covers. I recently saw an e-cover of the recently relaunched Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (Returns)and it was animated (a wee cartoon, I suppose.) It's a children's book, so perhaps an animated cover is suitable, but if 'animated e-covers' are proven to be successful, I wonder if eventually we'll all being doing it?
Cheers!


message 31: by Marianne (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments S. G. wrote: "I have seen them with different covers. I have known authors to try out a "new image" or "new cover" when publishing ebooks (after their paperback). Some just take their original and changed the co..."

Hi S.G.
Yes, I'll let you know how we get on in future. Thanks for interest:) At the moment, so far, paper copies of The Blue Suitcase have been selling very well, partly due, I think, to the fact I've been doing a lot of events this year. Kindle sales are also going okay - The Blue Suitcase has been listed in the top ten UK Kindle sales (under Family Sagas)a few times. I still feel unsure, however, of how to market/promote an e-book, do you, or anyone else, have any suggestions? Cheers!


message 32: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments Marianne, congratulations on your success and thank you so much for sharing your story. Gives me hope, and I'm sure it gives others hope, too :)


message 33: by Marianne (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments Thanks for kind words, Mhairi. I think there's never been a better time to be a writer. It's exciting, and yes, a little bit scary, but there's nothing to lose and everything to gain :o)


message 34: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments Which is pretty much why I'm going for it, too :) Just goes to show, it can be done! We're not the mad ones, no matter how much some people look at us askance for taking a chance :)


message 35: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Bertsch (philosophe) Murdo wrote: "I think that the cover for the ebook is every bit as important as the cover for a print book. I chose to use the same cover for both in my novel Roses of Winter. The cover is like a brand logo for ..."
I understand the critical issue is whether the cover is effective in thumbnail size. If your print cover fills the bill, by all means use it. If it is ineffective displayed as a thumbnail (many are, having been designed for display in print!), you should design something more effective for your ebooks.


message 36: by Michael (new)

Michael (michaeljsullivan) | 63 comments Marianne,
Thanks for that write up. As someone who has done both (self-published and traditional) I can tell you that not everyone has a bad experience with their publishers and $0.01 royalty is not standard.

Most contracts give you 10% on hardback sales and 6 - 8% on paperback (both list price) and 25% of net for ebooks. So If we look at standard sales:

$25 hardcover = $2.50
$14.99 trade paperback = $0.89 - $1.11
$7.99 paperback = $0.47 - $0.64
$7.99 ebook = $1.39

I'm not saying you shouldn't self publish and be happy with that decision - as I was when I did it. And I wouldn't have gotten a $5,000 - $10,000 advance instead of six-figures if I hadn't self published first. But I just wanted to give some experience that not all traditional publishing is as bad as the experiences your friends had.


message 37: by Marianne (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments Michael wrote: "Marianne,
Thanks for that write up. As someone who has done both (self-published and traditional) I can tell you that not everyone has a bad experience with their publishers and $0.01 royalty is no..."


Hi Michael, nice to meet you. You're right to highlight the benefits of traditional publishers. I agree there are some good ones out there, especially the publishers who have a good sales force and a budget to spend on marketing your book. But, on the other hand, if you don't have a publisher, or an agent, you don't have to wait :O)


message 38: by Michael (new)

Michael (michaeljsullivan) | 63 comments Marianne wrote: "Michael wrote: "Marianne,
Thanks for that write up. As someone who has done both (self-published and traditional) I can tell you that not everyone has a bad experience with their publishers and $0...."


Oh I agree...you're preaching to the choir there! I sold more than 70,000 books as a self-published and made good money doing so as I was selling at $4.95 and $6.95 and keeping 70% of the income.


message 39: by Marianne (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments Hi Michael,

Wow, 70,000 books is phenomenal! How much time would you say you spent marketing/promoting the book when you self published? Is it the same - or more - than when you published your book through a regular publisher?


message 40: by Marianne (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments Hello again, nice to see so many new people! I just want to let you know I'm doing a Question and Answer session in the Goodreads Q&A area this weekend on my novel The Blue Suitcase. I'd love to hear from you, whether it's a question to do with self publishing or editing, or the writing of the novel:o) btw the novel is based on my mum's life and takes place in Nazi Germany - it's the undertold story of an ordinary German Christian girl growing up under Hitler. It's had rave reviews and both paperback and kindle doing well ("It's unputdownable.") Look forward to meeting you there :o)
The Blue Suitcase


message 41: by Tom (last edited Nov 05, 2011 04:28AM) (new)

Tom Hunter | 2 comments    I have been writing fiction for a long time. I spent two years on the original manuscript of
The Butcher of Leningrad:


   "Russia has a terrible problem with abandoned children
who live in the sewers. The Russian Mafia uses these
homeless kids for organ transplants.
   An American reporter in St. Petersburg discovers what
the Russian Mafia is doing but he only succeeds in bringing
their fury down on his own head.

   In this fast-paced thriller, you will enter the raw underbelly
of modern Russia. You will see depravity and vicious cruelty
--things you cannot believe one human could do to another.
You will see things that will shake you to the core of your being.
   By the time you come out on the other side of this
thrilling odyssey into the dark heart of Russia, you will be
changed forever.
"


   I spent two years on the first draft and then rewrote, expanded, re-structured and evolved through 30 drafts until I completed the 105,000-word thriller. I went to Book Expo in 2007, pitched my novel to agents and ended up getting 10 requests for full manuscript. No takers. Then I heard about one more and he loved my book and agreed to represent this novel, based on draft 1.18.
   His 15-page editorial letter gave me some ideas and made me understand some architectural infelicities and helped me to notice some dropped subplot lines. He also pointed out a few small factual errors and I went off for a year of rewriting. [At all times I had a day job as a software developer in a high-pressure Manhattan corporation. I wrote in evenings and weekends]. I turned in draft 2.2 and he had a few more but minor changes. He submitted draft 2.5 to 28 publisher's imprints in Manhattan and while many great comments, no takers ever.


   To this day my agent has it on his for-sale wall though I ended up first releasing draft 2.9.9 to Lulu com myself [ http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/leningrad ] where it exists to this day and after almost a year of waiting, Lulu got it on Amazon and so I have a kindle edition of it and a hardback.
   Lulu took a long time to actually make it online, which seems paradoxical. Amazon.com's Kindle was quick.
   You can buy your own ISBN easily, but you have to decide if you ever want to put it on Amazon or not before you buy your ISBN. Unless you make sure that you personally will be listed as publisher, you can't upload it to Kindle.

Hardback (Lulu): $28.50
E-Book (Lulu): $0.99
Kindle $1.99


message 42: by Mark (new)

Mark Stephens | 6 comments I've recently forayed into the world of e-publishing and have used to Smashwords website. Unfortunately they have some issue with Amazon, so none of my books or short stories are listed there. But I'm satisfied with it starting out and hope they resolve their issue. I haven't explored publishing directly with Amazon, but may have to.

Mark Stephens


message 43: by Tom (new)

Tom Hunter | 2 comments Mark,
It may be that you are not the publisher of your ISBN number. I had that problem at first.


message 44: by Murdo (new)

Murdo Morrison I find the Smashwords process to be too rigid and not user friendly. I spent a lot of time formatting my ebook prior to looking at Smashwords and got it exactly the way I wanted. I was not willing to start over and do a totally new format just to satisfy their system. They should be able to accept recognized formats. I use a software called Legend Maker, which does a really good job of creating ePub and mobi versions of my book from a rich text format file. Amazon accepted the output without any problem. Since Amazon is the big player so far, I went no further with Smashwords.

I think authors should start asking for a standardized system of acceptance across different readers. At the moment it seems that there are still 'gatekeepers' who want us to do it their way. I suppose we are still in the early stages of ebook development and it will change. over time. As a group we need to start asserting our needs and stop being so deferential.


message 45: by Wendy (last edited Nov 07, 2011 05:30AM) (new)

Wendy Bertsch (philosophe) Good luck with that.

While you may have a Righteous Crusade there, in the meantime, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The ones responsible for the multiple formats are the manufacturers, not the 'gatekeepers'. It's a business issue, and they'll eventually respond to the readers who are their customers--not to authors.

Smashwords is simply doing their best to present a 'one solution fits all' option, to spare you the trouble of having to rework your book for each existing format separately.


message 46: by Murdo (new)

Murdo Morrison I have no interest in a righteous crusade. Also, I have had no trouble getting my books out without the help of Smashwords. They are readily available in ebook and print formats in the US, Canada, the UK and Europe. They are also available right here on Goodreads.com. I simply want people to know that there are good alternative solutions for formatting books that do not require Smashwords. I think the readers and writers need to make their voices heard to the various reader manufacturers and to companies like Smashwords. I didn't need Smashwords and made a 'business' decision no to waste time jumping through their hoop.


message 47: by Marianne (new)

Marianne Wheelaghan (httpwwwgoodreadscomMarianneW) | 88 comments Hi Murdo and Wendy, just eavesdropping in your conversation, hope you don't mind :) Interestingly, we (that is the 'royal') at Pilrig Press decided against publishing on Smashwords for my book The Blue Suitcase, or rather, Smashwords rejected it because it couldn't handle the format of the novel with its maps and letters, newspaper clippings and diary entries etc. That doesn't mean we won't publish on Smashwords for the next novel. The more outlets/opportunities the greater the potential of increased 'footfall', don't you think? And while it has limits, Smashwords does appear to make "publishing" very straightforward, especially for new writers.


message 48: by Murdo (new)

Murdo Morrison You make a very good point. Use the tool that you feel most comfortable with or best suits your project. I was thinking more of the limitations and unnecessary obstacles that some routes to publishing place in a writer's path. We are in the very early stages of e-publishing. It will eventually all shake out and become (we hope) more streamlined and rational. There will be better file transfer, conversion and interoperability in the future (sooner rather than later). As writers we can help this process by not being too supplicatory.


message 49: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 142 comments I'll be going with Smashwords because it's the only way to get my book into Barnes & Noble. They won't accept authors from outside the US. You can't buy from their online store outside the US, either :(


message 50: by Murdo (new)

Murdo Morrison Mhairi wrote: "I'll be going with Smashwords because it's the only way to get my book into Barnes & Noble. They won't accept authors from outside the US. You can't buy from their online store outside the US, eith..."

An example of what I was saying. So there are still 'gatekeepers.' My understanding is that ePub formats can be viewed on the Nook and Sony reader. Of course, that doesn't have the immediacy of being in the B&N store. The IBooks store also makes you jump through various hoops, although again you can read ePub formats on the IPad2. As the content providers, I think we can have more influence than we do. Many writers still seem conditioned to hold attitudes honed by the former dependent relationships of traditional publishing. We are in a new world. Time to assert ourselves more.


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