Karen Chance Fans discussion

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Book Corner > What do you love/hate in the genre

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message 1: by Gwyn (new)

Gwyn | 27 comments A conversation about sex in the PR genre over in the Cassie thread inspired me to ask: what do you love and what do you hate about in the genre. (By genre, I mean all urban fantasy, but especially PR.)

For example, I like the way werewolves are usually portrayed (the whole human/wolf dichotomy, pack structure, dominance conflicts), but I don't like vampire "politics". In my mind, if vampires were real, they would be solitary creatures, or hunt only small groups.

What about you? What keeps you coming back? What are your pet peeves?


message 2: by Kaye620 (new)

Kaye620 | 32 comments One of my biggest pet peeves is when an immortal or long lived character is portrayed as behaving immature or speaks current "hip" slang. An example would be The Black Dagger Brotherhood and having all of the guys talk like they were raised in the projects of some inner city instead of Europe hundreds of years ago.

I love when an author creates something new and unique or is able to take an old classic and add new twist to it. Karen Marie Moning has to be my favorite when it comes to this with her Fever series. At the end of the series you still aren't sure what the heck JZB is.

Brian Lumley's Necroscope series has some great twist in it also.

I like to know that the couples in PR books are getting together but I don't need a play by play of each sex act. TMI Anita Blake TMI. I refuse to buy anymore of the books in that series which had started off so well and with so much potential. Now they just tend to be one orgie after a next.

Oh, and book covers; we have to talk about book covers! I love the ones that grab our attention but it also has to be something I wouldn't mind reading in public. I really like Karen Chance book covers because they show a sexy strong woman who is fully clothed. I don't like Kersely Coles' Immortals After Dark book covers. I lover the series and think the male models are fun to look at but I don't want to go into a store and have one of my students see me buying one. I don't want next door neighbor to see me sitting on the front porch reading one. Thank heavens for e-books and being able to download them so that I don't have to flash the covers to everyone else.

Gwyn, Is this some of the kind of things you were taking about?


message 3: by Patrick (new)

Patrick Doris (patrickdoris) | 3 comments What I like about the paranormal genre is that so many of them have strong female leads who grow both in power and as a person from book to book. I agree with Kaye that Karen Chance's books have the absolute best covers. I seem to have two hates now that I thought about it. First would be for those books who trivialize the archetypes. There is only so much cross breeding that can be believable and no day walking vampires. Secondly I hate it when people have a magic system that has no cost to it. Television got away with it in "Bewitched" but paranormal writers should do better.


message 4: by Cher (new)

Cher | 33 comments I'm a UF/PR series addict but I do have complaints. My main complaint is the love interests in most stories. I find I can't bother to finish a series or book if the main characters have found their other halfs in first 30 pages.Some of the best series have proven this by letting tension/interest build over books.Lets the reader get attached to the love interests.Example-Kate and Curran, Mac and Barrons, Terrible and Chess etc .I know it's a silly pet peeve but it annoys me!


Valerie ~ Val Hall ~ | 1164 comments Talking about silly pet peeve....I was thinking about Chess. I know she is awesome and intelligent but does she have to be the ONLY one with a brain in her organization? I find sometimes that all the other characters in the hero/heroine organization are all stupid and dumb. Like they are all TSTL...makes you wonder why they are in charge. It serves the purpose of the plot to have obstacles to the hero but does it have to be that excruciatingly obvious?


message 6: by Munchkin (last edited Jul 12, 2011 10:45AM) (new)

Munchkin | 14 comments Kaye620,
I agree on the covers issue. I tend to read much more UF than PNR and I am not embarrassed to buy or carry most UF with me. Some of the PNR covers make me cringe. I'm by no means a prude, but I don't need my students, their parents etc seeing what I read for fun ! Jeaniene Frosts night huntress and Yasmine Galenorn's covers are great !

Everyone harasses me that I have not read BDB. I have been reading some IAD by Kresley Cole. Not sure if all the series based on each male character finding tl are for me. I'm sure many readers thouroughly enjoy them. Not trashing, just saying I have no problem with love interest building thru the series. Or that thru the series the couple has ups and downs, things to overcome while battling evil :) a friend has given me a few of the BDB so i'm sure i will give them a try


message 7: by Ayalla (new)

Ayalla | 23 comments Cher wrote: "I'm a UF/PR series addict but I do have complaints. My main complaint is the love interests in most stories. I find I can't bother to finish a series or book if the main characters have found their..."

I am the total opposite. I hate it if it takes 2-3 books till the main charakter finds someone. Shouldn't be in the first 30 pages, but atleast in the half. Even thinking about some books makes me angry, Chicagolands Vampires, 2 books and no hope for any tiny bit of releationship.
I so need to read Night Huntress now..

I hate to independent females. Sometimes you have to stand back and accept help. But so rarely any main char is doing that. Actually I can't remember any, maybe Cassandra Palmer but, nah not really. So often they endanger people without a reason, it's not even helping in the end, they are just being stupid and told before to not be so stupid. Whhyyy? Some brain, less selfconfidence, bit more survival instinct and trust in other people.

And what I don't like either is, when I read the second or third book of a serie, and it's written like I didn't read the first. Repeating facts over and over again, even in the same sentences in different books. Copy&Past is nice, but how many people actually start reading in the middle of a serie? I always start with book 1.

And the page long discription of clothes. It is nice to know how sexy the clothes are, but I don't want to know if there are red ribbons with white dots on the left side of the nightgown or not. Too many details in general really annoy me and I only found that so much in PR genre or simular.


message 8: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Davie (kathydavie) | 457 comments I dunno. I just finished Hidden Cities and all that Fox gave up were some bits and pieces and I felt like I was missing out on so much. I used to have the same complaint about so much of later books taken up with repeating what's happened previously...now, not so much.


message 9: by Munchkin (new)

Munchkin | 14 comments cher,
that's why it's good that there are currently so many authors being published in this genre, something for everyone to enjoy.

for me sometimes a great deal of time passes before the next book, so i do not mind the bits of backstory from previous books. other readers may pick up a book without realizing there are previous books in the series.


message 10: by Sophie (new)

Sophie (kurosymph) | 136 comments Ayalla said:"And what I don't like either is, when I read the second or third book of a serie, and it's written like I didn't read the first. Repeating facts over and over again, even in the same sentences in different books. Copy&Past is nice, but how many people actually start reading in the middle of a serie? I always start with book 1."

What you said! Some try to work it into the character's dialogue, and when it's clumsily done it only ends up with them sounding like dummies...

And it really pisses me off when there is no balance of power established: all of them are "strong, scary-powerful..." yeepee. Or when the main character keeps growing in power without any coherent explanation whatsoever till she ends up doing whatever she pleases because of course no one can stop her...

One of my favorite things in UF is the alternative interpretation of some myths and history.

Another is the worldbuilding (in all Fantasy). I love it when you can see that the author spends time fleshing out his/her world, when it's not limited to the main character's perception. (at the same time a crapload of it can kill the story... you don't NEED 5 pages ont the herbs the Hobbits smoke... but the lack of worlbuilding is more fraquent.)

And cliffhangers make me laugh.


message 11: by L-D (last edited Jul 14, 2011 12:57PM) (new)

L-D (lannie95) It bothers me when there are MULTIPLE partners for the heroine. I do like it when the main character is trying to decide between a couple of love interests and you may not know who she will end up with in the end like Cassie/Mircea/Pritkin, Chess/Lex/Terrible or Rachel in the Hollows Series. The fact that Rachel dates and breaks up with various guys over the course of the series is like real life.

BUT - books where the heroine has multiple partners at the same time and in the same bed. I can handle and even appreciate some of it if the author does it well, but some series it seems like they are competing to see how slutty the main character can get. Examples are the Sisters of the Moon, Anita Blake, and Meredith Gentry series. I have actually read every single book in each of these series and some of them have plot tucked away in there somewhere. And I'm definitely not a prude, but sometimes these whacked out relationships take over the plot and just seem overdone. I take quality over quantity when it comes to strong male leads.


message 12: by Cher (new)

Cher | 33 comments Valerie ~ Val Hall ~ wrote: "Talking about silly pet peeve....I was thinking about Chess. I know she is awesome and intelligent but does she have to be the ONLY one with a brain in her organization? I find sometimes that all t..."

I have to laugh at your comment because you are so right. Chess is an interesting character but the only one who ever knows what's going on. The Church is just laughable.


message 13: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Davie (kathydavie) | 457 comments The Church being laughable could be part of the point that Kane is making. That religion never changes.


Valerie ~ Val Hall ~ | 1164 comments I do not deny that the Church as an entity is very slow moving. It could also apply to a lot of other organizations.


message 15: by L-D (new)

L-D (lannie95) Right - it's also basically their form of government and police rolled into one. More examples of slow moving organizations.


message 16: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Davie (kathydavie) | 457 comments Oh definitely. The larger an organization becomes, the slower it seems to move. And the more entrenched they become in their own infallibility.


message 17: by Zeenat (new)

Zeenat (zeekwon) | 6376 comments Cher wrote: "I'm a UF/PR series addict but I do have complaints. My main complaint is the love interests in most stories. I find I can't bother to finish a series or book if the main characters have found their..."

I know this is old, But I am absolutely with you on this. If the love interest is already settled, then I don't really care. But if he/she is single, I want to see some dating! It's why a lot of books are ruined for me.

I also hate it when I don't find the romances, or even other plot points, believable. Sometimes the characters pick someone there was no chemistry with or it just doesn't make sense for whatever reason.


message 18: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Mircea's Moderatrix (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 6029 comments Mod
The romance is often predictable and boring. You know who will end up together and there are no suprises in the end. Like maybe no HEA at all!


message 19: by Tiffany (new)

Tiffany (tiffanyswartze) | 137 comments i hate when authors write about their characters being angry and say, "Rebecca clenched her teeth as she replied..."

I am sick of clenching and gritting!


message 20: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments Tiffany, lol, yeah, I surprised a lot more characters don't have major dental problems with all the abuse they give their teeth! :D


message 21: by Zeenat (new)

Zeenat (zeekwon) | 6376 comments there is always a raised eyebrow, clenching teeth, making a fist, narrowing eyes, growling . . . lol in every book it seems like!


message 22: by Tiffany (new)

Tiffany (tiffanyswartze) | 137 comments Yes, I forgot the narrowing of the eyes and growling too. There was a particular author (who shall remain nameless) whose character would scream her replies when she got mad. Seriously? Screaming? Over-react much?


message 23: by Megpie (new)

Megpie (meaganleann) I have to say my biggest pet peeve is when they drag a love triangle out for several books in the series. I get the allure of having a love triangle in a series because it is fun to read and it brings tension and some pretty interesting scences... however after awhile, I just wanna scream PICK ONE OR THE OTHER ALREADY! But it seems to me just about ever single UF series I have picked up lately has a love triangle.


message 24: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments Meagan, Well, the Cassie books are somewhat guilty of this too! :)

Cassie's love triangle feels different from some other ones though, maybe because the whole relationship with Pritkin is so understated, and because he couldn't really have a relationship even if he wanted.


message 25: by Tiffany (new)

Tiffany (tiffanyswartze) | 137 comments I am not a big fan of overt love triangles either, and I know this next comment is sexist but I dislike love triangles even more when the heroine has to compete with another girl for the hero. Usually the other girl is the "bad" girl and the hero can't see it, and its just painful.

However, like Lannister said, some love triangles (like Cassie's) are so understated that it is not as bothersome (to me).


message 26: by Anna (last edited Apr 07, 2012 05:57AM) (new)

Anna | 1680 comments Good: Humour - it has to be well written but at the same time doesn't take itself too seriously. (KC and the Kitty books). Strong female characters but including males that are intruiguing. Hints of relationships are good - it needs to be secondary to the plot line unless it is 'normal' as in the Mercy series. Some pace, a convincing world/backstory which is only revealed gradually.

Bad: I have a low tolerance for books where the plot gets in the way of the sex eg Sunny. So I guess I'm more UF than PR.


message 27: by Megpie (new)

Megpie (meaganleann) Lannister wrote: "Meagan, Well, the Cassie books are somewhat guilty of this too! :)

Cassie's love triangle feels different from some other ones though, maybe because the whole relationship with Pritkin is so under..."


The Cassie books are sooooo good that the love triangle doesn't even bother me that much... even though it has drug out foreverrrrr! Lol. I hope in the next one she chooses one or the other because I feel so bad for both when she keeps going back and forth between them.
Anyways, if the love triangle is done right and doesn't drag on in each book, then I kinda enjoy them.


message 28: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments I suspect once Pritkin's back out of hell, things will change with Cassie's love triangle. I think things will move forward - one way or another!
*Sayonara Mircea!!*

Although Cassie's love triangle has gone on for a while, there are good reasons for nothing happening so far, with the 'restrictions' Pritkin has been living under. So it's not just Cassie swinging between two guys unable to make her mind up, and I think that's why her situation feels different to a lot of other books.


message 29: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Mircea's Moderatrix (last edited Apr 07, 2012 07:35AM) (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 6029 comments Mod
Lannister wrote: "*Sayonara Mircea!!*"

*opens arms*

Don't be sad, baby! That Cassie chick doesn't deserve you! I'll always be here for you!

*holds Mircea and then looks at him*

Want to lick my feet?

Hahahahaha!

The thing I like about the KC love triangle is that (at least I) have no clue how it'll end. Honestly, most of the time you know right from the first book who will end up together. Here, it could be Mircea (not the most likely), could be Pritkin but I could also see it being none of them. I also agree that the understated Cassie/Pritkin relationship adds to it being enjoyable. KC does a good job with it.


message 30: by Tiffany (new)

Tiffany (tiffanyswartze) | 137 comments Go Pritkin! I can't wait for that whole thing to explode!


message 31: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments Sarah ♥ Vutch forever ♥ wrote: "Want to lick my feet?"

LMFAO!

I think I've figured out the end. Cassie finally meets Dory and realises that she's actually been a lesbian all these years (that's why she could never pick a guy). It's love at first sight, and they ditch their guys immediately. LC goes back to Europe in a huff, and Mircea's ego shrivels up in shock. Pritkin, who's seen it all before, is a supportive friend, so on Saturday nights, they let him come over and watch.

You read it here first!! ;)


message 32: by Megpie (new)

Megpie (meaganleann) Sarah ♥ Vutch forever ♥ wrote: "Lannister wrote: "*Sayonara Mircea!!*"

*opens arms*

Don't be sad, baby! That Cassie chick doesn't deserve you! I'll always be here for you!

*holds Mircea and then looks at him*

Want to lick my ..."


Haha... too funny! I have no clue who Cassie is going to pick either! One minute she is gettin' dirty with Pritkin and the next she is lovin' Mircea! Haha, I am just as torn as her too! At fist I hated Pritkin, but he has slowly won his way into my heart! I agree with Lannister that she should just be lesbian with Dory! Lmao!


message 33: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Mircea's Moderatrix (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 6029 comments Mod
That way Mircea and Pritkin can have their HEA as well. LOL


message 34: by Zeenat (new)

Zeenat (zeekwon) | 6376 comments You guys fantastic endings lol


message 35: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Davie (kathydavie) | 457 comments Sick, y'all are just sick...can I watch, too.


message 36: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments LOL Kathy. We need more pervy fanfic (though I have no idea if there's lots out there already?!)


message 37: by Zeenat (new)

Zeenat (zeekwon) | 6376 comments http://www.fanfiction.net/book/Cassan...

Haven't looked through it yet . . . maybe there is some pervy fanfic there lol


message 38: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Davie (kathydavie) | 457 comments Oh...sigh...I'll sacrifice myself to look through...first one in's the lucky duck!


message 39: by Tammy (new)

Tammy | 57 comments Lannister wrote: "I think I've figured out the end. Cassie finally meets Dory and realises that she's actually been a lesbian all these years..."

LMAO!!


message 40: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Davie (kathydavie) | 457 comments It is a good one...can you see Mercia and Pritkin standing there scratching their...um...heads? Oops, maybe that's the wrong word, too...all those male fantasies of f/f..


message 41: by Enjee, Founder (new)

Enjee | 1194 comments Mod
Zeenatroohi wrote:

Haven't looked through it yet . . . maybe there is some pervy fanfic there lol"


This is the link that has ALL the ratings turned on...you just had the tame stuff listed. If the goal is "pervy", you should look at the "M" rated stories (but only if you're old enough).

http://www.fanfiction.net/book/Cassan...


message 42: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments Thank you Enjee!!

Frankly, unless it's really, really good, I'm not interested in the tame stuff. I wants pervy!!


message 43: by Jax (new)

Jax | 831 comments * Joins thread* (late again...lol)

I enjoy Urban Fantasy for a lot of reasons...
I like the various different ways the authors portray the vamps and weres... and I love the action...
The erotic scenes are also welcome!! LOL

In general I don't have many dislikes...
though, if I look at LKH... (before she spent 90% of the book on sex) my only complaint was that I wasn't Anita... as some of the stuff just isn't possible unless you're with a vamp or were!!!

There are one or two authors though who's male characters just aren't believable... now yes, I want my escape from reality, but I still want the character to be a little "realistic"...LOL
What can I say, I'm a conflicted little chicken....


message 44: by Jax (new)

Jax | 831 comments On the topic of Cassie with Mircea or Pritkin....

Personally I'm rootin' for Pritkin...
I have nothing against Mircea, but I just prefer Pritkin for her.... I just wish she'd come to the same conclusion!! :-)


message 45: by Zeenat (new)

Zeenat (zeekwon) | 6376 comments You know what I just realized?

Why is it that when I am reading a paranormal romance, I skip through a lot of the sappy stuff to read the world building and action, but when I am reading fantasy or urban fantasy, I skip the action to read the romance?


message 46: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments LMAO Zeenat!! That's so funny! :D

I wonder if authors go too far in one direction or the other sometimes. I generally avoid PNR but when I do read one now and again, I'm often struck by how much I enjoy the sub-plots, but the over the top romantic stuff kills it for me. I can't say I've felt that so much with UF books, as I usually find the romance scenes a pleasant diversion from the action there. I guess you need to find a series with a 50/50 balance of action/romance. I dunno if such a thing exists.


message 47: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Mircea's Moderatrix (last edited Apr 25, 2012 11:50PM) (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 6029 comments Mod
I never skip but defo enjoy the action way more than the romance, no matter if PNR or UF.


message 48: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Mircea's Moderatrix (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 6029 comments Mod
Dear authors, if you have BDSM in your books and a dom, please do some research about that lifestyle. Oh, and it'd be nice if not every dom has a damaged childhood where he was beaten and this caused him to be how he is. Some people are into BDSM or are a dom just because it turns them on and they like it!


message 49: by Jax (new)

Jax | 831 comments Sarah ♥ Vutch forever ♥ wrote: "Dear authors, if you have BDSM in your books and a dom, please do some research about that lifestyle. Oh, and it'd be nice if not every dom has a damaged childhood where he was beaten and this caus..."

Hi There,
Have you read the Morgan Kingsley Series by Jenna Black?
There's BDSM, but its not the basis of the story... plus I found the series highly entertaining!
(its also the only one I've read with BDSM other than LKH - and the characters were very different.)


message 50: by Lannister (new)

Lannister (lannisteruk) | 10911 comments Sarah, agreed 100%! I was thinking of Fifty Shades of Grey when I read your comment, as that pretty much summed it up.

Jax, I *loved* that series. I was quite disappointed that it was only about five books long. The guys were kinda hot!! :D


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