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message 1: by Lisarenee (new)

Lisarenee | 7659 comments Honor's Splendour by Julie Garwood

This topic is open for discussion of
Honor's Splendour by Julie Garwood. Be Prepared for SPOILERS.

Description: In the feuding English court, gentle Lady Madelyne suffered the cruel whims of her ruthless brother, Baron Louddon. Then, in vengeance for a bitter crime, Baron Duncan of Wexton—the Wolf—unleashed his warriors against Louddon's main. Exquisite Madelyne was the prize he catured...but when he gazed upon the proud beauty, he pledged to protect her with his life. In his rough-hewn castle, Duncan proved true to his honor. But when at last their noble passion conquered them both, she surrendered with all her soul. Now, for love, Madelyne would stand fast...as bravely as her Lord, the powerful Wolf who fought for...Honor's Splendour.


message 2: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 16, 2011 08:19PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Chapter Breakdown
Honor's Splendour by Julie Garwood Honor's Splendour by Julie Garwood

Chapter 1, pages 1-11 (11)
Chapter 2, pages 12-28 (17)
Chapter 3, pages 29-43 (15)
Chapter 4, pages 44-63 (20)
Chapter 5, pages 64-70 (7)
Chapter 6, pages 71-94 (24)
Chapter 7, pages 95-104 (10)
Chapter 8, pages 105-120 (16)
Chapter 9, pages 121-129 (9)
Chapter 10, pages 130-148 (19)
Chapter 11, pages 149-163 (14)
Chapter 12, pages 164-171 (8)
Chapter 13, pages 172-181 (10)
Chapter 14, pages 182-206 (25)
Chapter 15, pages 207-221 (15)
Chapter 16, pages 222-240 (19)
Chapter 17, pages 241-264 (24)
Chapter 18, pages 265-281 (17)
Chapter 19, pages 282-298 (17)
Chapter 20, pages 299-311 (13)
Chapter 21, pages 312-326 (15)
Chapter 22, pages 327-352 (26)
Chapter 23, pages 353-365 (13)
Chapter 24, pages 366-374 (9)

Date----------Chapters----------Questions/Comments Poster
July 11---------1 - 3------------------Lisa Kay
July 12---------4 - 6-----------------Sans
July 13---------7 - 9-----------------Sashana
July 14---------10 - 12---------------Lisa Kay
July 15---------13 - 15---------------Sans
July 16---------16 - 18---------------Sashana
July 17---------19 - 21---------------Lisa
July 18---------22 - 24--------------Sans

QUESTIONS for Chapter 1 -3

1. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid were those guys at the beginning of this book, standing around a dangerous man and taunting him? Did you feel the ambience of overconfidence and stupidity right away?

2. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid where those wussie guys to leave him unattended b/c of the cold?

3. End of chapter one: < blockquote>And then the warrior spoke. “I didn’t come for Louddon, Madelyne. I came for you.” Were you surprised by his statement?

4. Humm, on a scale of 1-10… Did you want to warm Duncan up yourself? After the first three chapters, how hot is Baron Duncan of Wexton?

5. Were you worried for Lady Madelyne safety when Baron Duncan took her to the post he had been tied to? Even for a second?

6. Could there be anything in Lady Madelyne’s possessions of significance? Sshe was so adamant about taking them b/f the chapel was burned?

7. End of chapter two:
From her warm hiding place against him, Madelyne whispered, “I think I would rather belong to no man.”

Duncan heard her. A slow smile crossed his face. What Lady Madelyne wanted wasn’t the least significant to him. Aye, she belonged to him now, whether she wished it or not.

Lady Madelyne had sealed her own fate.

She’d warmed his feet.
Did you like the fate-sealing quote at the end of chapter two? Were there others you liked?

8. On a scale of 1-10… WTF! I must get out of this rut! Do you like quotes at the beginning of chapters? In books, do you always read them, sometimes read them, or skip them, especially if they are too long?

9. Do you think Madelyne will repeat her warning and/or invoke her duty as a captive and try to escape? If so, will she succeed and how? How will Duncan react to her repeated warnings that she will do so? Or to the act itself?

10. Lady Madelyne: “Do you think I’m going to try to convince you that the gossip you’ve heard about me isn’t true?” she asked. “Well, think again, Baron. Believe what you will. If you think I’m a whore, then whore I am.” Later, she apologies for taking advantage of him. What was your initial take on Lady Madelyne? Did it change any by the end of chapter three?


QUESTIONS for Chapters 4-6

11. Louddon is so Creepy McCreeperton. Not only was he lusting after (and apparently bedding) his stepmum, he's lusting after his stepsister too? Isn't she his half sister though?

12. I would so not mind waking up THAT way with a big brawny man. Well, except for the whole clock-him-in-the-nuts-with-both-fists...

13. Did anyone else figure Duncan must have had a sister that was hurt by Louddon?

14. Good lord, did he really just threaten to hit her? Great way to prove you're nothing like Louddon, bro.

15. Ok, confused again. Louddon did say stepsister and Madelyne obviously thinks they share a father. Did I miss something? Or did her mother cuckold her "father"?

16. Why didn't she just tell Duncan about the approaching army outright? Why wait to get him alone?

17. Whoa, wait, they're seriously dragging her into the battle? Dudes sure weren't terribly bright back in the day.

18. I'm thinking her reaction to killing someone is perfectly valid. Why is Duncan being jackass? And isn't she bleeding from a nasty leg wound??

19. Good to see Madelyne agrees with us on the shouty tendencies.

20. "You're a bossy bit of goods." Oh, I like Edmond already. Anyone else agree? And ick. Medieval medicine.


QUESTIONS for Chapters 7-9

21. What do you think Garwood was trying to achieve by making Madelyne think Duncan was Odysseus, and, at one point, Achilles?

22. Madelyne seemed to be more bold in this chapter:
“I am ever a gentle maiden," she shouted. "Damn if I'm not."

"If you leave me, Odysseus, I'll send someone after you to teach you some manners. Aye,” she added, warming to her threat.
Do you think that there was a shift in her attitude? Or was her sassiness a side effect of being sick and delirious?

23. What was your favorite quote(s) from chapters 7-9?
(Mine was from chapter 7: "I have you flat on your back, Duncan. I could have my way with you if I wanted." ~ Madelyne.)

24. Were you as frustrated as I when Duncan lied to Madelyne about staying with her while she was sick? (at the end of chapter 7)

SIDE-NOTE: Let's do a little betting here. The person who guesses correctly or the closest will get first pick of the hotties in the book.
25. How many chapters will it take for Duncan to have his "I think I love her," moment?

26. How long will it take for Madelyne to have her moment?

27. Who will proclaim their love first?
28. Were you surprised at how hostile Adela was towards Madelyne? Do you think that there will be a cat-fight in the future?

29. “I don't want Madelyne placed in jeopardy," Gilard remarked. "I think we should have left her behind. Louddon would have found her soon enough. And she isn't Duncan's Madelyne, Edmond. We are all equally responsible for her." His voice was soft but the challenge was there, in the set of his shoulders and the way he stared at his brother.

Does Gilard have a thing for Madelyne?

30. If so, do you think it will create a rift between the brothers?


QUESTIONS for Chapters 10-12

31. Do you think there really is a wolf? Will Madelyne have a “close encounter” with him?

32. What do you think of Madelyne and Adela’s confrontation? Was Madelyne too rough/harsh with Adela?

33. How twisted is Louddon? After luring her to a planned seduction, does his having someone else rape Adela somehow make it worse?

34. Do you believe Madelyne is capable of planning and carrying out a revenge murder? Can she keep Adela’s secret?

35. So, what is up with Duncan’s sleeping with Madelyne, unbeknownst to her? Think he’ll be able to keep his lust in check until their “issues” are settled?

36. How funny was that scene about the Spartan women:
“I do know, however, that they took more than one man to their beds.”

Adela gasped and Madelyne nodded, thoroughly satisfied by her friend’s reaction. “More than one at a time?” Adela asked. She whispered the question and then blushed with embarrassment.

Madelyne nibbled on her lip while she considered if that was possible.

“I don’t think so,” she finally announced. Her back was to the door, and Adela’s full attention was centered on her friend. Neither noticed Duncan now stood in the open doorway.
37. What does Duncan mean by, “You’ll not be captive here much longer…” ?


QUESTIONS for Chapters 13-15

38. Do you think Louddon really means to marry Madelyne off to Morcar?

39. Why is Madelyne the one shouting all the time now?

40. Is it a good or a bad thing that Madelyne thinks that priest looks familiar?

41. Damn, I'm with Madelyne on this one. She's got a right to be angry that the boys called the marriage a "sacrifice".

42. Do you think that wedding was legal? I mean, the words weren't right and there were some big irregularities in the ceremony.

43. Raise your hand if you knew she wouldn't go to Duncan's room like he told her too. And am I the only one who got a hot flash when he broke down her door?

44. Other than the caveman hotness, does anyone else feel like Duncan's character is kind of flat and unexplored?

45. Hands up if you're with Madelyne and wouldn't mind being grabbed and dragged around a bit by the dude you've got the hots for.

46. I was proud of Madelyne for recognizing what she was doing w/ Duncan on their wedding night (trying to force him to make the decision for her). Do you think this will be a turning point for her?

47. Tell me I wasn't the only one to headdesk at Duncan's actions and jackassy behavior after they had sex.

48. Duncan's daily new excuse for why he married Madelyne was sweet. Were you surprised that it took him two weeks after their wedding to realize he was in love with her? Was that too short of a time or too long?

49. Ideas of why Gerald suddenly showed up?

QUESTIONS for Chapters 16-18

50. Is it me or does Madelyne seem more condescending and bossy towards Adela?
"Adela, dove, you look splendid."

Adela smiled. "You call me such funny names, as if I were younger than you are, when you know perfectly well I'm almost two years older."

"That is no way to acknowledge a compliment," Madelyne instructed, ignoring Adela's reminder of their age difference. After all, Adela might be older in years, but Madelyne felt far more worldly. She wasn't nearly as fragile as her friend, and she was a married woman.
51. Do you think we’ll ever meet the infamous Lady Elenor? Will Duncan ever mention her? So far Adela is the only one who has brought her up. Is she even real?

52. Is anyone else having a slightly hard time keeping Gilard’s and Gerald’s names straight?

53. Do you think that the shouting will cease in the Wexton household now that Madelyne and Duncan have professed their love?

54. On a scale of one to ten how funny was that foot scene at the dinner table?

55. Madelyne bumps her head on Duncan’s chin a lot. I’m surprised that he hasn’t lost any teeth yet. All that cuddling and bumping…it’s almost like she has an obsession with his chin.

SIDE NOTE: Another round of betting. What can I say? I like to gamble. *shrugs* (not really)

56. Will Adela and Gerald (or is it Gilard?) get together? If so, predict the chapter?

57. Who will profess their love first? Gerald/Gilard or Adela?

58. Is Madelyne ever going to find out that she traded words with Edmond while she was sick? If so then predict her reaction.

59. Did anyone else think that the beginning of chapter 18 was extremely well written and vivid?

60. At this point I’m kind of annoyed with Madelyne. Every time I turn around she’s having a tantrum - screaming or crying. Which leaves me to wonder, whatever happened to the inside voice?


message 3: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 18, 2011 03:17PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments QUESTIONS for Chapters 19-21

61. Were you surprised at extent of “Father” Laurance’s duplicity?

62. What did you think of Duncan’s “suggestion” that Adela allow Gerald to kiss her? Thoughts on effectiveness on Gerald’s open-ended length of stay?

63. Why did Duncan concede that it was Gerald’s right to “take care of” Morcar? What is the significance of doing so?

64. Ideas on how Duncan will (should) reward little Willie?

65. The flaw I see in this story is that people didn’t get many missives in those days; they were a bit of excitement and news from the outside world. Therefore, I found the idea of one not being read right away slightly absurd. Do you agree with me? Or did you just go with the flow of the story? Or maybe, on deeper thought, and since Duncan himself requested the information from the monastery, a part of him knew it would hold confirmation of his worst fears.

66. At the beginning of chapter 20, did you suspect a set up? Were you surprised as well disappointed that Louddon wasn’t there?

67. Ahhh… Finally we learn a little more about Duncan and Gerald. Do you think you know their characters a little better now? Thoughts and feelings about where Gerald left his sword?

68. Think Gerald’s plan to get Adela to bed him will work?

69. So, Madelyne’s relationship with Louddon is at last revealed. Thoughts or feelings? Also, feel free to make comments about Clarissa here, if you desire.

70. What do you think of Madelyne strategy to draw out Louddon’s anger?

71. Finally, Lady Eleanor makes an appearance! Very brief, true, but was your first impression a lasting one, or did it change by the end of chapter 21?


QUESTIONS for Chapters 22-24

72. Reaction to Duncan's display when he showed up at Breton's?

73. Why do you think King William sent his brother to fetch Madelyne?

74. Gerald and Gilard's conversation reminded me - What is Henry planning that he wants Duncan's loyalty?

75. Side note: "He was a slick as an eel and lied like a whore to his king." Wow, that's pretty insulting to whores everywhere.

76. Looks like Louddon's arse isn't tight or pretty enough to keep in in favor with the king. What did you think of William's decision to banish Duncan to Scotland for a month?

77. Were you surprised Louddon didn't attack Duncan and Madelyne in Scotland?

78. Hands up those who think Henry was behind William's death.

79. Who else saw Louddon's attack coming?

80. They the wolf was real! Did you think it was?

81. Who else heard the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail when Anthony said, "Tis just a flesh wound."?

82. Well, we're done! Overall thoughts on the book?


message 4: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Reserved for posted questions.


message 5: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Reserved for posted questions.


message 6: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 10, 2011 09:10AM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Sans and I plan to begin our "buddy read" on Monday, July 11, 2011. Any who wants to read along with us is welcome, or even those who have read the book and want to pop in to say "Hi!" It is a re-read for me, but a first time read for Sans.

I'm not sure how many chapters we'll read a night. Probably three to four; that is what we usually do. For now, we have agreed to read the first three chapters for Monday, July 11th. I'll post the questions for that day.


message 7: by Sans (new)

Sans Three chapters to start with sounds great. New gal in legal starts tomorrow but it'll take her a few days to catch up. We can revisit number of chapters per day after Wednesday or Thursday?


message 8: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Does that mean no reading on Tuesday, or just go with three chapters on Tuesday?


message 9: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 11, 2011 11:49AM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 1 -3

1. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid were those guys at the beginning of this book, standing around a dangerous man and taunting him? Did you feel the ambience of overconfidence and stupidity right away?

2. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid where those wussie guys to leave him unattended b/c of the cold?

3. End of chapter one: < blockquote>And then the warrior spoke. “I didn’t come for Louddon, Madelyne. I came for you.” Were you surprised by his statement?

4. Humm, on a scale of 1-10… Did you want to warm Duncan up yourself? After the first three chapters, how hot is Baron Duncan of Wexton?

5. Were you worried for Lady Madelyne safety when Baron Duncan took her to the post he had been tied to? Even for a second?

6. Could there be anything in Lady Madelyne’s possessions of significance? She was so adamant about taking them b/f the chapel was burned.

7. End of chapter two:
From her warm hiding place against him, Madelyne whispered, “I think I would rather belong to no man.”

Duncan heard her. A slow smile crossed his face. What Lady Madelyne wanted wasn’t the least significant to him. Aye, she belonged to him now, whether she wished it or not.

Lady Madelyne had sealed her own fate.

She’d warmed his feet.
Did you like the fate-sealing quote at the end of chapter two? Were there others you liked?

8. On a scale of 1-10… WTF! I must get out of this rut! Do you like quotes at the beginning of chapters? In books, do you always read them, sometimes read them, or skip them, especially if they are too long?

9. Do you think Madelyne will repeat her warning and/or invoke her duty as a captive and try to escape? If so, will she succeed and how? How will Duncan react to her repeated warnings that she will do so? Or to the act itself?

10. Lady Madelyne: “Do you think I’m going to try to convince you that the gossip you’ve heard about me isn’t true?” she asked. “Well, think again, Baron. Believe what you will. If you think I’m a whore, then whore I am.” Later, she apologies for taking advantage of him. What was your initial take on Lady Madelyne? Did it change any by the end of chapter three?


message 10: by Sans (new)

Sans Lisa Kay wrote: "Does that mean no reading on Tuesday, or just go with three chapters on Tuesday?"

We'll go with three chapters tomorrow. ^_^


message 11: by Sashana (last edited Jul 11, 2011 12:41PM) (new)

Sashana 1. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid were those guys at the beginning of this book, standing around a dangerous man and taunting him? Did you feel the ambience of overconfidence and stupidity right away?
10, I think they were stupid to taunt a man with such a dangerous past. Especially when said man was so cool and nonchalant despite being nearly naked and undignified in the snow. It was a recipe for disaster.

2. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid where those wussie guys to leave him unattended b/c of the cold?
Again, 10. They were bitching because of how cold they were and they were fully dressed. They should have been suspicious because The Wolf didn't seem to care about the cold.

3. End of chapter one:
And then the warrior spoke. “I didn’t come for Louddon, Madelyne. I came for you.”
Were you surprised by his statement?

Very! It never even crossed my mind. I thought he was just going to attack the house and maybe even kidnap her. I would have never guess that it was all a setup to kidnap Madelyne.

4. Humm, on a scale of 1-10… Did you want to warm Duncan up yourself? After the first three chapters, how hot is Baron Duncan of Wexton?
Very very hot! I love his whole "me man-you woman" thing. He can kidnap me anytime ;)

5. Were you worried for Lady Madelyne safety when Baron Duncan took her to the post he had been tied to? Even for a second?
No, because I know that the author wouldn't harm the protagonist. Especially so early into the book. I was worried that she would pull some stupid move though.

6. Could there be anything in Lady Madelyne’s possessions of significance? She was so adamant about taking them b/f the chapel was burned.
Not really. I think she's just adamant about getting her possessions because she has it in her head that she's running away.

7. End of chapter two:
From her warm hiding place against him, Madelyne whispered, “I think I would rather belong to no man.”

Duncan heard her. A slow smile crossed his face. What Lady Madelyne wanted wasn’t the least significant to him. Aye, she belonged to him now, whether she wished it or not.

Lady Madelyne had sealed her own fate.

She’d warmed his feet.

Did you like the fate-sealing quote at the end of chapter two? Were there others you liked?
I really enjoyed the warming feet quote. I think it was very arrogant of Duncan to think so and it gave me quite a good chuckle. As for any other quotes, I'm sure there were but I can't think of them at this moment.

8. Do you like quotes at the beginning of chapters? In books, do you always read them, sometimes read them, or skip them, especially if they are too long?
I usually read quotes at the beginning of a chapter because they usually give hints about what is about to happen. I don't like them so much in this book though.

9. Do you think Madelyne will repeat her warning and/or invoke her duty as a captive and try to escape? If so, will she succeed and how? How will Duncan react to her repeated warnings that she will do so? Or to the act itself?
I would like to believe that she will attempt to escape. Any good heroine worth my respect would try to escape, even if it is from a hottie like Duncan. With that being said I think if she manages to escape she will be captured again.

10. Lady Madelyne: “Do you think I’m going to try to convince you that the gossip you’ve heard about me isn’t true?” she asked. “Well, think again, Baron. Believe what you will. If you think I’m a whore, then whore I am.” Later, she apologies for taking advantage of him. What was your initial take on Lady Madelyne? Did it change any by the end of chapter three?
I think she is an odd mixture of things. She's brave, but also timid. She doesn't understand many things so I guess I can say that she also naive. Those were my first impressions of her. And they remain so.


message 12: by Sans (new)

Sans Sash, I'm glad you're joining us!


message 13: by Sashana (new)

Sashana My pleasure :). I loved everything that I read by Julie Garwood so far so I thought why not join. I am reading ahead though, so I'm trying to keep my questions very unspoilery.


message 14: by Sans (new)

Sans No prob. Do you want to do tomorrow or Wednesday's questions?


message 15: by Sashana (new)

Sashana I'll take Wednesday. School tomorrow.


message 16: by Sans (new)

Sans Ok!


message 17: by Sans (new)

Sans Sans' answers to 1-3

1. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid were those guys at the beginning of this book, standing around a dangerous man and taunting him? Did you feel the ambience of overconfidence and stupidity right away?
Uh, 15. Douchebags.

2. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid where those wussie guys to leave him unattended b/c of the cold?
That'd be 20. Epic douchebags.

3. End of chapter one:

And then the warrior spoke. “I didn’t come for Louddon, Madelyne. I came for you.”

Were you surprised by his statement?

A little bit. I was expecting him to just burn the place down.

4. Humm, on a scale of 1-10… Did you want to warm Duncan up yourself? After the first three chapters, how hot is Baron Duncan of Wexton?
I'll call this a definite 10. Gotta love how alpha he is without all the chest-beating. I hope he moves away from the Shouty McShouterson bits though. Speaking quietly and calmly is always more effective I think.

5. Were you worried for Lady Madelyne safety when Baron Duncan took her to the post he had been tied to? Even for a second?
No. I really didn't think he was going to do anything to her.

6. Could there be anything in Lady Madelyne’s possessions of significance? She was so adamant about taking them b/f the chapel was burned.
Maybe something of her Uncle's?

7. End of chapter two:

From her warm hiding place against him, Madelyne whispered, “I think I would rather belong to no man.”

Duncan heard her. A slow smile crossed his face. What Lady Madelyne wanted wasn’t the least significant to him. Aye, she belonged to him now, whether she wished it or not.

Lady Madelyne had sealed her own fate.

She’d warmed his feet.

Did you like the fate-sealing quote at the end of chapter two? Were there others you liked?

It was nice. A tiny bit flowery, but I still liked it. I'm not liking all the "Aye"s everyone is throwing around in their inner monologue though.

8. On a scale of 1-10… WTF! I must get out of this rut! Do you like quotes at the beginning of chapters? In books, do you always read them, sometimes read them, or skip them, especially if they are too long?
I depends on the quote really. If it's long (more than a sentence or two), I tend to skim over them.

9. Do you think Madelyne will repeat her warning and/or invoke her duty as a captive and try to escape? If so, will she succeed and how? How will Duncan react to her repeated warnings that she will do so? Or to the act itself?
Oh, she's going nowhere. She might make it half a mile, but he's not letting her go. He'll prolly seduce her into submission.

10. Lady Madelyne: “Do you think I’m going to try to convince you that the gossip you’ve heard about me isn’t true?” she asked. “Well, think again, Baron. Believe what you will. If you think I’m a whore, then whore I am.” Later, she apologies for taking advantage of him. What was your initial take on Lady Madelyne? Did it change any by the end of chapter three?
Uber innocent, but that's to be expected in this time period. She's got a backbone and I can see her standing up to Duncan when she's a bit more comfortable with him.


message 18: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Welcome, Sashana! So great you joined us. :)


message 19: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 11, 2011 08:49PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Lisa Kay’s Answers Her Own Questions for Chapter 1 -3

1. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid were those guys at the beginning of this book, standing around a dangerous man and taunting him? Did you feel the ambience of overconfidence and stupidity right away?
10 - Pretty arrogant!

2. Humm, on a scale of 1-10, how stupid where those wussie guys to leave him unattended b/c of the cold?
11 – Uberwussies!

3. End of chapter one: < blockquote>And then the warrior spoke. “I didn’t come for Louddon, Madelyne. I came for you.” Were you surprised by his statement?
Definitely. Wasn’t expecting that. I’ve read this book b/f and I’d forgotten that he said this.

4. Humm, on a scale of 1-10… Did you want to warm Duncan up yourself? After the first three chapters, how hot is Baron Duncan of Wexton?
Super Hot. I’d love to keep him warm.

5. Were you worried for Lady Madelyne safety when Baron Duncan took her to the post he had been tied to? Even for a second?
For a second there I wondered what was up. I was thinking whipping post and, while I knew Duncan would NOT whip her, I was worried someone else would misconstrue his purpose.

6. Could there be anything in Lady Madelyne’s possessions of significance? Sshe was so adamant about taking them b/f the chapel was burned?
I’m keeping my lips zipped.

7. End of chapter two:
From her warm hiding place against him, Madelyne whispered, “I think I would rather belong to no man.”

Duncan heard her. A slow smile crossed his face. What Lady Madelyne wanted wasn’t the least significant to him. Aye, she belonged to him now, whether she wished it or not.

Lady Madelyne had sealed her own fate.

She’d warmed his feet.
Did you like the fate-sealing quote at the end of chapter two? Were there others you liked?
Loved this quote/scene. He is just so possessive!

8. On a scale of 1-10… WTF! I must get out of this rut! Do you like quotes at the beginning of chapters? In books, do you always read them, sometimes read them, or skip them, especially if they are too long?
I love quotes and have been collecting them since I was 16. I almost always read them. The book, while damn near perfect, has quotes in it that are just slightly “off” somehow. I don’t know how to explain it. They don’t quite fit, IMHO.

9. Do you think Madelyne will repeat her warning and/or invoke her duty as a captive and try to escape? If so, will she succeed and how? How will Duncan react to her repeated warnings that she will do so? Or to the act itself?
No comment.

10. Lady Madelyne: “Do you think I’m going to try to convince you that the gossip you’ve heard about me isn’t true?” she asked. “Well, think again, Baron. Believe what you will. If you think I’m a whore, then whore I am.” Later, she apologies for taking advantage of him. What was your initial take on Lady Madelyne? Did it change any by the end of chapter three?
Compassionate. Naïve. Innocent. Young. Appropriate for the time period, yet still feisty considering she has been largely raised in isolation by her scholarly uncle. I don’t think her feistiness comes out until the second and third chapter; a nice development.


message 20: by Sans (new)

Sans Lisa, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking the quote just don't work for some reason. ^o^ Also, "Uberwussies" is awesome. XD


message 21: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments My responses to Sasbana’s Answers

#1 & 2 – Yes, his “coolness” and dignity should have given them warning!

#4 - “ ‘me man-you woman’ thing”
Great way to put it, LOL!

#7 “I think it was very arrogant of Duncan to think so and it gave me quite a good chuckle.”
Yes, pretty funny and arrogant.

#8 – We agree! :)


message 22: by Sans (new)

Sans Sash, I'm next in line to be kidnapped by Duncan!


message 23: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 11, 2011 08:21PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments My responses to Sans’ answers.


#1 - “Douchebags.”
LOL! God, I’ve miss you! :)

#2 – Okay! I thought I was pushing it to 11, but you out-did me.

#4 – “I hope he moves away from the Shouty McShouterson bits…”
Ditto! LOL! Some men are that way, though.

#7 – Hadn’t noticed the “ayes”. Maybe we can make a drinking game out of them. :)

#10 – Backbone! That’s the word I was looking for! :)


message 24: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Sans wrote: "Lisa, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking the quote just don't work for some reason. ^o^ Also, "Uberwussies" is awesome. XD"

Thanks! Lady D. has been prefacing with "uber" and I think it has rubbed off on me.


message 25: by Sans (new)

Sans I've missed you like crazy too! Ooooh, drinking games! *rubs hands together* You sure do know the way to my heart. ^o^


message 26: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 11, 2011 08:53PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments LOL! Go, Sans! BTW, can you number your questions tomorrow, starting with #11? I'm going to post them all at the top of this thread (for posterity). Thanks.


message 27: by Sans (new)

Sans Wilco! I'm working on them right now. Er, in between watching Luke Bryan videos on YouTube...


message 28: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Ahhh... send me a hyperlink of which song I should listen to! **whimpers pathetically**


message 29: by Sans (new)

Sans Oh, there's so many! I'll send them in a PM so I don't clutter up the boards by causing a flood with all my drooling over him. *bites knuckle*


message 30: by Sans (last edited Jul 12, 2011 08:24AM) (new)

Sans Sans' Questions for Chapteres 4-6

11. Louddon is so Creepy McCreeperton. Not only was he lusting after (and apparently bedding) his stepmum, he's lusting after his stepsister too? Isn't she his half sister though?

12. I would so not mind waking up THAT way with a a big brawny man. Well, except for the whole clock-him-in-the-nuts-with-both-fists...

13. Did anyone else figure Duncan must have had a sister that was hurt by Louddon?

14. Good lord, did he really just threaten to hit her? Great way to prove you're nothing like Louddon, bro.

15. Ok, confused again. Louddon did say stepsister and Madelyne obviously thinks they share a father. Did I miss something? Or did her mother cuckold her "father"?

16. Why didn't she just tell Duncan about the approaching army outright? Why wait to get him alone?

17. Woah, wait, they're seriously dragging her into the battle? Dudes sure weren't terribly bright back in the day.

18. I'm thinking her reaction to killing someone is perfectly valid. Why is Duncan being jackass? And isn't she bleeding from a nasty leg wound??

19. Good to see Madelyne agrees with us on the shouty tendencies.

20. "You're a bossy bit of goods." Oh, I like Edmond already. Anyone else agree? And ick. Medieval medicine.


message 31: by Tuğçe (new)

Tuğçe Gökırmak (tugcenidasevin) | 157 comments I have read this one in May and really enjoyed it, I actually decided that I like Julie Garwood :) First one I read was The Secret (it was very fun) and then I read the sequel didn't like it as much as I thought it was a shallow copy of the first book, the storyline was pretty much the same but it was still fun, then in May I have read this one and it was darker than the first 2 I've read and it was quite a long book but I really enjoyed it :)
I would like to join in the discussion but first I have to look through the questions and see if I remember it all :) because I read it just 2 months ago so quite early for a re-read. :) Hope you like it too... I am planning to read The Bride sometime this month.


message 32: by Sashana (new)

Sashana Lisa Kay wrote: "Welcome, Sashana! So great you joined us. :)"

Thanks, Lisa Kay :)


message 33: by Sans (new)

Sans If it's ok with you guys, can we stick with 3 chapters per day?


message 34: by Sashana (last edited Jul 12, 2011 02:27PM) (new)

Sashana No prob, Sans. I'm getting a final this week so I'm short on time too.


message 35: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Tugce Nida wrote: "I would like to join in the discussion but first I have to look through the questions and see if I remember it all :) because I read it just 2 months ago so quite early for a re-read. :)"

Wonderful, Tugce Nida! Glad you're joining us.


message 36: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Sans wrote: "If it's ok with you guys, can we stick with 3 chapters per day?"

Fine by me, Sans!


message 37: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 12, 2011 07:30PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Lisa Kay’s Answers to Sans' Questions for Chapteres 4-6

11. Louddon is so Creepy McCreeperton. Not only was he lusting after (and apparently bedding) his stepmum, he's lusting after his stepsister too? Isn't she his half sister though?
I don’t know if he was bedding his step-mother, but he probably wanted to. I believe he believes he is Madelyne’ half-brother.

12. I would so not mind waking up THAT way with a big brawny man. Well, except for the whole clock-him-in-the-nuts-with-both-fists...
LOL! Duncan probably had the typical morning woody too. **Lisa Kay sucks air through her grimacing teeth** Madelyne’s also clocked him in the chin a few times with her head!

13. Did anyone else figure Duncan must have had a sister that was hurt by Louddon?
Nope.

14. Good lord, did he really just threaten to hit her? Great way to prove you're nothing like Louddon, bro.
I know! It was a brutal era.

15. Ok, confused again. Louddon did say stepsister and Madelyne obviously thinks they share a father. Did I miss something? Or did her mother cuckold her "father"?
I’m keeping my lips zipped.

16. Why didn't she just tell Duncan about the approaching army outright? Why wait to get him alone?
I wonder about this too. What’s the deal? Did she just want to ensure no body automatically reacted and charged down the hill after them, or gave a “hue and a cry” letting the enemy know they were on to them? If so, she doesn't know much about warriors. Good question.

17. Woah, wait, they're seriously dragging her into the battle? Dudes sure weren't terribly bright back in the day.
Really. What could they do with her, though? Set up a guard to await their return? Maybe. They did try to keep her out of the action a bit, but too little too late.

18. I'm thinking her reaction to killing someone is perfectly valid. Why is Duncan being jackass? And isn't she bleeding from a nasty leg wound??
Yes, I would have been upset too. I think Duncan thought she was worried for her brother’s safety. He’s not getting it quite yet. Yup, definitely bleeding, but all those clothes and cloke cover a lot.

19. Good to see Madelyne agrees with us on the shouty tendencies.
LMAO!

20. "You're a bossy bit of goods." Oh, I like Edmond already. Anyone else agree? And ick. Medieval medicine.
LOL! Yes, love all of Duncan’s family. Medieval “medicine”! **shutters** Lord, I don’t think I could have handled it back then. At least give me a little antiseptic, carbolic acid soap, something! Gross.


message 38: by Sashana (last edited Jul 13, 2011 10:14AM) (new)

Sashana Sashana's Questions for chapter 7-9
Side-note: Bear with me peeps, I'm still a novice at discussion questions.

21. What do you thing Garwood was trying to achieve by making Madelyne think Duncan was Odysseus, and, at one point, Achilles?

22. Madelyne seemed to be more bold in this chapter:
I am ever a gentle maiden," she shouted. "Damn if I'm not."

"If you leave me, Odysseus, I'll send someone after you to teach you some manners. Aye.
she added warming to her threat.

Do you think that there was a shift in her attitude? Or was her sassiness a side effect of being sick and delirious?

23. What was your favorite quote(s) from chapters 7-9? (Mine was from chapter 7: "I have you flat on your back, Duncan. I could have my way with you if I wanted."~Madelyne)

24. Were you as frustrated as I when Duncan lied to Madelyne about staying with her while she was sick? (at the end of chapter 7)

SIDE-NOTE Lets do a little betting here. The person who guesses correctly or the closest will get first pick of the hotties in the book.

25. How many chapters will it take for Duncan to have his "I think I love her," moment?

26. How long will it take for Madelyne to have her moment?

27. Who will proclaim their love first?

28. Were you surprised at how hostile Adela was towards Madelyne? Do you think that there will be a cat-fight in the future?

29. "I don't want Madelyne placed in jeopardy," Gilard remarked. "I think we should have left her behind. Louddon would have found her soon enough. And she isn't Duncan's Madelyne, Edmond. We are all equally responsible for her." His voice was soft but the challenge was there, in the set of his shoulders and the way he stared at his brother.

Does Gilard have a thing for Madelyne?

30. If so do you think it will create a rift between the brothers?


message 39: by Sans (new)

Sans Those are great questions, Sash! I'm hoping to actually get a lunch break today to read.


message 40: by Sashana (last edited Jul 13, 2011 10:48AM) (new)

Sashana Sashana's answers to Sans's questions Chapteres 4-6

11. Louddon is so Creepy McCreeperton. Not only was he lusting after (and apparently bedding) his stepmum, he's lusting after his stepsister too? Isn't she his half sister though?
Very creepy. Wouldn't that be incest? Ick! He sure has a very weird sexual pallet

12. I would so not mind waking up THAT way with a a big brawny man. Well, except for the whole clock-him-in-the-nuts-with-both-fists...
I wouldn't mind that part so much. Any contact with Duncan's package is a win in my book

13. Did anyone else figure Duncan must have had a sister that was hurt by Louddon?
No. I didn't pick that up until later in the book. Good eye though, Sans

14. Good lord, did he really just threaten to hit her? Great way to prove you're nothing like Louddon, bro.
Yep, it's the whole "me-man-you-woman" thing. I wasn't surprised really.

15. Ok, confused again. Louddon did say stepsister and Madelyne obviously thinks they share a father. Did I miss something? Or did her mother cuckold her "father"?
I caught that too. Three possibilities here (1)The author made a mistake. (2)Louddon is stupid. (3) Maddy has a different father she doesn't know about. That would explain her "dad's" doucheyness towards her.

16. Why didn't she just tell Duncan about the approaching army outright? Why wait to get him alone?
I honestly don't know

17. Woah, wait, they're seriously dragging her into the battle? Dudes sure weren't terribly bright back in the day.
Once again, it's the whole caveman thing. Their way or no way

18. I'm thinking her reaction to killing someone is perfectly valid. Why is Duncan being jackass? And isn't she bleeding from a nasty leg wound??
I can see both sides. Maddy is an innocent so of course she is cut up (literally and figuratively) about killing someone. Duncan kills people for a living so he doesn't realize why Maddy would be so distraught about killing someone.

19. Good to see Madelyne agrees with us on the shouty tendencies.
I kind of like the shouty tendencies. I find it sexy. Which is weird because I never like controlling men in literature or real life.

20. "You're a bossy bit of goods." Oh, I like Edmond already. Anyone else agree? And ick. Medieval medicine.
The brothers really don't give off the sexy vibes IMO. I'm digging Duncan too much.


message 41: by Sashana (new)

Sashana Sans wrote: "Those are great questions, Sash! I'm hoping to actually get a lunch break today to read."

Thanks, Sans. I really tried :)


message 42: by Lisa Kay (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments They are wonderful, Sashana! Trying to answer them now. :)


message 43: by Sashana (new)

Sashana Thanks, Lisa Kay :). I'm going to answer them in a few minutes too.


message 44: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 13, 2011 11:53AM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments My Answers to Sashana’s Questions for Chapters 7-9

21. What do you think Garwood was trying to achieve by making Madelyne think Duncan was Odysseus, and, at one point, Achilles?
To show that subconsciously Madelyne sees Duncan as her hero. (She loves Odysseus! But Achilles is better looking.) Madelyne has only been around old, scholarly men – or her evil brother. Her ideal Adonis-warrior has only been found, thus far, in books. I think there is a little bit of hope here too. I thought it was a hoot that she saw Edmond as Polyphemus, the Cyclops – and turned him into one, LOL!

22. Madelyne seemed to be more bold in this chapter:
“I am ever a gentle maiden," she shouted. "Damn if I'm not."

"If you leave me, Odysseus, I'll send someone after you to teach you some manners. Aye,” she added, warming to her threat.
Do you think that there was a shift in her attitude? Or was her sassiness a side effect of being sick and delirious?
I think she is a feisty little thing that is (unsuccessfully) trying to hide her independent nature. I think the delirium is allowing her to express her true self. I don’t know if she is so much a yeller normally, but she wants to hold her own in this household of yellers. I think she wants to see herself as a more power than she knows she actually is, so she is sort of pushing herself here.

23. What was your favorite quote(s) from chapters 7-9?
(Mine was from chapter 7: "I have you flat on your back, Duncan. I could have my way with you if I wanted." ~ Madelyne.)
Great quote, Sash! **hee hee** Here's mine:
“Who is Polyphemus?”

Madelyne’s eyes widened. What a strange question. “Why, he was a giant, the leader of the Cyclops in Homer’s ancient tale,” she answered. “Polyphemus was a horribly deformed giant with one huge eye right in the center of his forehead. He at Odysseus’s soldiers for his supper,” she added with a dainty shrug of her shoulders.

Edmond didn’t like her answer. “For God’s sake,” he muttered.

“You shouldn’t be taking God’s name in vain,” Madelyne called out. “And why would you be asking me who Polyphemus was?”
24. Were you as frustrated as I when Duncan lied to Madelyne about staying with her while she was sick? (at the end of chapter 7)
I was pretty frustrated. Men! *deep sigh**

SIDE-NOTE Let's do a little betting here. The person who guesses correctly or the closest will get first pick of the hotties in the book.
25. How many chapters will it take for Duncan to have his "I think I love her," moment?
Hummm… Good question. I’ve honestly forgotten. I’m betting more toward the end of the book. How about Chapter 22?

26. How long will it take for Madelyne to have her moment?
Chapter 15?

27. Who will proclaim their love first?
This is a tough one, but I’m going with Duncan, despite his denying staying with Madelyne while she was sick.
28. Were you surprised at how hostile Adela was towards Madelyne? Do you think that there will be a cat-fight in the future?
Yes. I forgot about the yelling. I'm staying mum on the cat-fight or not; that guess or not I remember.

29. “I don't want Madelyne placed in jeopardy," Gilard remarked. "I think we should have left her behind. Louddon would have found her soon enough. And she isn't Duncan's Madelyne, Edmond. We are all equally responsible for her." His voice was soft but the challenge was there, in the set of his shoulders and the way he stared at his brother.

Does Gilard have a thing for Madelyne?
Yes!

30. If so, do you think it will create a rift between the brothers?
No. I think Duncan will squash any hope he might have quite quickly. (Good question, as I honestly can’t remember.)


message 45: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 13, 2011 12:06PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments My responses to Sash’s Answers

#12 - Any contact with Duncan's package is a win in my book.
**Lisa answers when she quits hyperventilating from laughing so hard:** OMG! You are a riot, Sash!

#13 – Yes, Sans has quite an eagle-eye.

#15 – Good guesses!

#19 - “...Which is weird because I never like controlling men in literature or real life.”
I think, for me, some of it has to do with the way Garwood weaves humor into the situation. I think she could have used different adjective, etc. (A booming voice…etc.) But, it still has kind of a startling effect on me when I read it, with laughter afterwards. Kind of me thinking, "Geez!" My ex is from a family of yellers and it took some getting used to b/c when they are done, they are done, and they’d forget about it. Weird.


message 46: by Sans (new)

Sans Sans' answers to chapter 7-9

21. What do you thing Garwood was trying to achieve by making Madelyne think Duncan was Odysseus, and, at one point, Achilles?
Lisa's got a great answer so I'll just agree with her.

22. Madelyne seemed to be more bold in this chapter:
I am ever a gentle maiden," she shouted. "Damn if I'm not."

"If you leave me, Odysseus, I'll send someone after you to teach you some manners. Aye. she added warming to her threat.

Do you think that there was a shift in her attitude? Or was her sassiness a side effect of being sick and delirious?

She's definitely showing her real personality here.

23. What was your favorite quote(s) from chapters 7-9?
"When another two days had passed, Madelyne was close to throwing herself out the window just to diversify her routine."

24. Were you as frustrated as I when Duncan lied to Madelyne about staying with her while she was sick? (at the end of chapter 7)
Yep. Not sure why he did it either.

25. How many chapters will it take for Duncan to have his "I think I love her," moment?
3/4 of the way through the book I think. Though he'll likely bed her before that.

26. How long will it take for Madelyne to have her moment?
Just before Duncan I think.

27. Who will proclaim their love first?
Duncan I think.

28. Were you surprised at how hostile Adela was towards Madelyne? Do you think that there will be a cat-fight in the future?
I'm seeing a homicidal Ophelia (post Polonius-slaying). I'm sure she'll try slapping and scratching and screaming but will eventually calm down.

29. "I don't want Madelyne placed in jeopardy," Gilard remarked. "I think we should have left her behind. Louddon would have found her soon enough. And she isn't Duncan's Madelyne, Edmond. We are all equally responsible for her." His voice was soft but the challenge was there, in the set of his shoulders and the way he stared at his brother.

Does Gilard have a thing for Madelyne?

Oh yeah. I wonder if it's almost a case of hero worship though?

30. If so do you think it will create a rift between the brothers?
Looks like it already is. I'm not sure why Edmond is so standoffish with Madelyne still though. Well, besides being punched and called a hideous beast...


message 47: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 13, 2011 09:51PM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments God, Sans! I don't know where to begin; you make me laugh out loud.

#23 - How did I miss that thought process? LOL!

#24 - Because he is a MAN! They don't want to let us know they care. My ex sat by my hospital bed all night after I had surgery years ago -- when he swore he was going home. Every once in a while I would peak my eye open and there he sat in the dark, watching over me. Men!

#25 - Yes, bed first, absolutely!

#28 - LOL!

#30 - LMAO! So snarky, you! (Love it!)


message 48: by Sashana (new)

Sashana Answers to my questions for chapter 7-9

21. What do you thing Garwood was trying to achieve by making Madelyne think Duncan was Odysseus, and, at one point, Achilles?
You really said it best, Lisa Kay

22. Madelyne seemed to be more bold in this chapter:
I am ever a gentle maiden," she shouted. "Damn if I'm not."

"If you leave me, Odysseus, I'll send someone after you to teach you some manners. Aye.
she added warming to her threat.

Do you think that there was a shift in her attitude? Or was her sassiness a side effect of being sick and delirious?

**I think she's already bold. She always stands up to Duncan then backs down at the last minute. However, I think that she'll challenge him until the end from now on. I might be wrong though. She was pretty loopy back there

23. What was your favorite quote(s) from chapters 7-9? (Mine was from chapter 7: "I have you flat on your back, Duncan. I could have my way with you if I wanted."~Madelyne)
Answered this one in the question

24. Were you as frustrated as I when Duncan lied to Madelyne about staying with her while she was sick? (at the end of chapter 7)
Yep, cus I thought he was progressing by staying with her whole she was ill. But he took five giant steps back by lying to her

SIDE-NOTE Lets do a little betting here. The person who guesses correctly or the closest will get first pick of the hotties in the book.

25. How many chapters will it take for Duncan to have his "I think I love her," moment?
I'll say chapter 18

26. How long will it take for Madelyne to have her moment?
Chapter 17. Cuz women have more sense than men so she'll figure out first. It's only natural.

27. Who will proclaim their love first?
Madelyne

28. Were you surprised at how hostile Adela was towards Madelyne? Do you think that there will be a cat-fight in the future?
Yes and yes. Crazy bat!

29. "I don't want Madelyne placed in jeopardy," Gilard remarked. "I think we should have left her behind. Louddon would have found her soon enough. And she isn't Duncan's Madelyne, Edmond. We are all equally responsible for her." His voice was soft but the challenge was there, in the set of his shoulders and the way he stared at his brother.

Does Gilard have a thing for Madelyne?

**For sure. He seems to have created his own version of Maddy in his head though. One where she's a Victorian trophy wife. Poor guy

30. If so do you think it will create a rift between the brothers?
No, because Duncan us an orderly man so I don't think he'll let things get out of control with his brother. He might give him a few good hits though.


message 49: by Sans (new)

Sans @Lisa - God, Sans! I don't know where to begin; you make me laugh out loud. Yaaaaaaay!! ^o^

@Sash - "He seems to have created his own version of Maddy in his head though. One where she's a Victorian trophy wife. Poor guy." Very well said!


message 50: by Lisa Kay (last edited Jul 14, 2011 12:42AM) (new)

Lisa Kay (lisakayalicemaria) | 15159 comments Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 10-12

31. Do you think there really is a wolf? Will Madelyne have a “close encounter” with him?

32. What do you think of Madelyne and Adela’s confrontation? Was Madelyne too rough/harsh with Adela?

33. How twisted is Louddon? After luring her to a planned seduction, does his having someone else rape Adela somehow make it worse?

34. Do you believe Madelyne is capable of planning and carrying out a revenge murder? Can she keep Adela’s secret?

35. So, what is up with Duncan’s sleeping with Madelyne, unbeknownst to her? Think he’ll be able to keep his lust in check until their “issues” are settled?

36. How funny was that scene about the Spartan women:
“I do know, however, that they took more than one man to their beds.”

Adela gasped and Madelyne nodded, thoroughly satisfied by her friend’s reaction. “More than one at a time?” Adela asked. She whispered the question and then blushed with embarrassment.

Madelyne nibbled on her lip while she considered if that was possible.

“I don’t think so,” she finally announced. Her back was to the door, and Adela’s full attention was centered on her friend. Neither noticed Duncan now stood in the open doorway.
37. What does Duncan mean by, “You’ll not be captive here much longer…” ?


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