White Nights discussion
Best Dostoyevsky Translations?
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Brad
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Oct 11, 2007 12:39PM

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I'm definitely no expert, but I tend to lean towards the older translations. Sometimes I feel like the newer ones are trying to be too unique.
I read the edition of Crime and Punishment by Penguin classics (I forget the actual translator) and that one flowed pretty well.
I just read the new translation of The Double by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky, and I had mixed feelings about that. I thought that the overall feeling of the novella was great, but they overused the word "physiognomy" and I didn't like their use of the word "sir" to denote the formal Russian word for "you". I just started reading The Gambler in the same volume, and I like how the prose feels, but yet again the word "physiognomy" appeared in the first few pages.
I read the edition of Crime and Punishment by Penguin classics (I forget the actual translator) and that one flowed pretty well.
I just read the new translation of The Double by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky, and I had mixed feelings about that. I thought that the overall feeling of the novella was great, but they overused the word "physiognomy" and I didn't like their use of the word "sir" to denote the formal Russian word for "you". I just started reading The Gambler in the same volume, and I like how the prose feels, but yet again the word "physiognomy" appeared in the first few pages.

Yes, I think the word countenance would be just as accurate. As always happens in translation, they are trying their best to convey a very nuanced Russian thought by only using one english word. It would be hopeless for them to give footnotes or endnotes for every russian word that they don't think has a direct translation. Physiognomy works pretty well (even though it doesn't sound good) because it conveys appearence/countenance as not just physical, but a physical rendition of emotion/soul/spirituality.
I have the text in Russian and English; I'll have to check to be sure that they are using physiognomy as a translation of "рожа" which Adam provided. Where did you learn that saying? "Don't blame the mirror if your appearence/physiognomy is crooked".
I have the text in Russian and English; I'll have to check to be sure that they are using physiognomy as a translation of "рожа" which Adam provided. Where did you learn that saying? "Don't blame the mirror if your appearence/physiognomy is crooked".

"Where did you learn that saying?" - you flatter me. I am just a poser. I saw that on a website as I was researching the Russian meaning. I do enjoy learning colloquialisms and idioms from other languages. Do you know any others in Russian?

As for the rendering of the formal and informal "You" in translations of Dostoevsky, perhaps the use of "sir" to mean the formal "you" is a bit much. But what's worse is the use of "thou" to mean the informal "you." Try and read Garnett's translation of "The Grand Inquisitor" from Bros K. Gaaaahhhhh. It's unreadable and waaay too King Jamesy.


Thanks for the tip. I have read and re-read Crime and Punishment. It is time to read it again with the Pevear/Volokhonosky translation


http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005...
I haven't read Pevear/Volokhonosky's Dostoevsky, but I really liked their Chekhov and Gogol.


Many thanks for that great New Yorker article. It touched on so many things that I found fascinating! Finishing off with stories of Nabokov kept me reading through its considerable (online) length.
I have only read bits of the P/V Karamzov, but I did enjoy Pevear's Three Musketeers version. Not really a fair comparison obviously....


White Nights...I love it, is the movie Le Notti Bianche worth watching?
If one likes Dostoevsky, as I clearly do, what would you consider the must read text? Be specific with the translation (as I am sure you smarties will), as I am not one who has paid much attention to such things in the past.
And, finally, who else should I be reading? I know this community is for people that are familiar with Russian writers, and I am not, but really, help a gal out. If you need a Chinese text translated, I'll get it done in return :)

As for other Russian writers, my personal favorite is Chekhov, the short stories. For poetry, Mandelstam. For essays, Joseph Brodsky's collection "On Grief and Reason."

This might be the obvious suggestion, but after Dos, Tolstoy's Anna Karenina is the must-read Russian novel. Also Chekhov's short stories, Bulgakov's Master and Margarita, Gogol's St Petersburg stories, Andrei Bely's Petersburg (if you want something more experimental) and Turgenev's First Love (if you want something short). Also I just read Erofeev's Moscow to the End of the Line and am currently in love with it. Can't go wrong with any of those. Have fun, I'm jealous that you're getting to experience this stuff for the first time.


When reading a long Russian novel, I always start with an Excel spreadsheet of families and their members and relationships. This printed out and folded into the book is very valuable, particularly with Tolstoy who has many characters. I mention this because if there are variations in the titles, I believe a table of translators and titles might be valuable. I know it would be to me.
This is a project that I am willing to undertake based on feedback from the group.
Tim



P.S. raskolnik, Frank's biography of Dostoevsky is really fun to read, probably one of the best biography I read.

"However, Garnett also has had many critics, notably prominent Russian natives and authors Vladimir Nabokov and Joseph Brodsky. Brodsky notably criticized Garnett for blurring the distinctive authorial voices of different Russian authors[1:]:
'The reason English-speaking readers can barely tell the difference between Tolstoy and Dostoevsky is that they aren't reading the prose of either one. They're reading Constance Garnett.'
In her translations, she worked quickly, and smoothed over certain small portions for "readability", particularly in her translations of Dostoevsky.[2:] In instances where she did not understand a word or phrase, she omitted that portion.[1:] [3:]"
Hemingway said he got his sparse style from Dostoevsky. But he didn't read Dostoevsky. He read Constance Garnett.
Here is a New Yorker article on the subject: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005...


I tried to get a book club to read Bulgakov;s The Master and Margarita. I read Mirra Ginsburg's translation and found it as life altering as Brothers K. But others in the book club read other translations: Burgin and O Connor and other translations I can't recall. It was a bit of a flop. I didn't know if this flop occurred because I was not wise enough to suggest the correct translation or if it is that some people just "don't get it". Please advise. It was isolating for me and though I am not particularly internet savey and perhaps don't have much to add other than a virgin awe of all things Dostoevsky. I was drawn to finding this group and so here I am. I was thinking of re-reading Master again by the other translators if they are any good since I was so touched by the Ginsburg translation. Please advise

I tried to get a book club to read Bulgakov;s The Master and Margarita. I read Mirra Ginsburg's translation and found it as life altering as Brothers K. But others in the book club read other translations: Burgin and O Connor and other translations I can't recall. It was a bit of a flop. I didn't know if this flop occurred because I was not wise enough to suggest the correct translation or if it is that some people just "don't get it". Please advise. It was isolating for me and though I am not particularly internet savey and perhaps don't have much to add other than a virgin awe of all things Dostoevsky. I was drawn to finding this group and so here I am. I was thinking of re-reading Master again by the other translators if they are any good since I was so touched by the Ginsburg translation. Please advise

yes the Demons is the same as the possessed

I have started Petersburg, translated by Maguire and Malmstad and am having a hard time getting into it. Is this the best translation or should I try a different translation?

i read the m/m translation of petersburg and loved it. if you are having trouble, it probably has more to do with the fact that it's a really tough book than the translation. keep at it though, it's totally worth it!


I read the edition of Crime and Punishment by Penguin..."
I think the Penguin Edition was translated by David David Magarshack. I've read C&P in a couple of translations, and that one was my favorite by far. Unfortunately, I lost it along the way...

I really like the Michael Glenny translation, but the publication (isbn: 0452008999) doesn't get the best reviews on Amazon...because of typos, etc.




Well since my initial post in 2007 I've read Bros. K. and The Idiot, both in the P&V translations and loved them. Well the books themselves (of couse:) but I found the translations to be great, though I feel a little strange saying that since I have not read the books in a different translation and therefore cannot compare. (Also read the book of Chekhov's "short novels" translated by P&V and it too was great all around).
I second Charlize's request for good biographies. I will say that I listened to Rayfield's Chekhov's biography and really enjoyed it. The ISBN for the book is 0805057471 but I listened to the audiobook that I got through audible.com.
Anyone else read that? Or like a different Chekhov bio that I should get into?
Thanks!

Presently I am reading The Adolescent in the P and V version and the translation seems excellent to me; I've also bought their version of Demons. However the Penguin Demons by Robert Macguire and others was available to me earlier and it too seems quite good. The McDuff version of Karamazov also seems excellent to me.
What seems likely is that these days translators of serious literature are pretty good at what they do. Demons is such a terrific if depressing book that I'll read the P/V translation and note the differences from Maguire.

So, I've recently purchased six P&Vs, read Karamazov and part one of The Idiot. But having got in touch with Steve from the post above (hi Steve) he alerted me to the new Penguins, by Maguire and McDuff, and I'm picking those up too. I opened the McDuff Karamazov - a fortnight after finishing the P&V - well, there's much more scholarly material in the dear Penguins, the translator's own intro does seem to have a grasp and insight, a vision of the book even (too individual?). I read the narrator's preamble and... found it distinctly better than any I had tried before. More characteristic language to catch the personality of this narrator Dostoyevsky has chosen. Funny, too.
The wild idea strikes me to go straight on with McDuff's Karamazov, while the P&V is in my memory, to determine to my own satisfaction what translations are for me...
One test, the test I always do in Karamazov, is the title phrase used in Book Four: 'strain' in P&V, 'crack-up' in McDuff, 'laceration' in Garnett and the Ralph E. Matlaw update of the Garnett that I have. I think 'strain' is too weak. In the Matlaw, a Norton Critical Edition, there's an essay that talks about that word in Russian. Hard to translate, but I gather it needs a strong term.

An eg. Alyosha to Rakitin in 'A Seminarian-Careerist':
McDuff: "Ivan's sights are set higher than that. Ivan would not be tempted even by thousands. Ivan isn't in quest of money, or peace of mind. He may possibly be in quest of torment."
P&V: "Ivan aims higher than that. Ivan won't be tempted by thousands either. Ivan is not seeking money, or ease. Perhaps he is seeking suffering."
Constance Garnett has: "Ivan is above that. He wouldn't make up to anyone for thousands. It is not money, it's not comfort Ivan is seeking. Perhaps it's suffering he is seeking?"
Hm, is that two against one? But - and even though I can't read the original - I like McDuff's 'quest': I am convinced that Alyosha spoke in this old-fashioned, high-flown way, at this moment; besides, the 'torment' goes with the chapter titles where Mitya is first investigated (where the torments are a specific Christian metaphor).
McDuff has two or three times used words I've never heard and/or doubt exist. Perhaps he includes these in his note: '[The translation] also aims to reproduce the somewhat idiosyncratic nature of the wording of certain passages, which is not always the one that might be expected either in Russian or in English'. He has come across to me more idiosyncratic. People's speech gets so eccentric they make up words on the spot or wrench them to fit. No other translator has given me words I don't understand, but I perfectly believe D. does the Russian equivalent.
Whenever a McDuff phrase strikes me I look up the P&V, and McDuff has won in the great majority of cases.
Translations are very personal. This simplifies things for me, however; it's a bummer when you don't know which to turn to.

It's hard for me to believe that Garnett's translations were anything but crude equivalents to what Dostoevsky actually wrote. She was not a native speaker of Russian (she was self taught), she worked in haste, and she was known to have omitted language that might have disturbed Victorian sensibilities. If people prefer her translations, it's because they're responding to Garnett's language and not to Dostoevsky's.
P/V work as a team with Larissa Volokhonsky, who is a Russian born translator of works in English, translating into English and Richard Pevear polishing the English in order to improve the flow. I believe the result is not just "modernized," but it's closer to the original. That's what should matter the most.
Here's a link to a New Yorker article on the subject.http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005...


it is not mater translation(of course it is but it is performance for my advice),while you read Fyodor,you must go free your emotional.Dostoyevsky cant be understand,but you can feel him!His sucses is in that secvence"deep emotional",nothing else!

I could imagine that both German and French would lend themselves better to convey the different nuances of Russian?

I could imagine that both German and French would lend themselves better ..."
Loel of course this is relevant if you are fluent in another language but I am not sure that French or German would be "better suited" than any other. Translations are translations. There would be some technical issues too - Demons features long passages in affected French in the original intended to convey a character's falseness. English translations I know translate the passages in notes at the end or at the bottom of the page. I don't know how French translations would handle this since all the text would be in French. Perhaps they could render those passages in italics or something. If you have a French translation would be interested in finding out.