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Atheism + Skepticism > Dewsbury, Bradford and Tower Hamlets ... where Islamic extremists want to establish independent states with sharia law

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

Islamic extremists have called on British Muslims to establish three independent states within the UK.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...


message 2: by Duntay (new)

Duntay | 11 comments The Daily Mail is a very untrustworthy source...


message 3: by Paul (new)

Paul  Perry (pezski) | 121 comments The Mail has been scaremongering along these lines for years. As you can tell by the comments section many of the readership are frothing mouthed lunatics.


message 4: by MadgeUK (new)

MadgeUK Yes, do not take any notice of the Daily Mail - they thrive on catering to bigots and nut cases.

There are a few Islamic extremists who want to establish Sharia 'states' here but their attempts have so far been frustrated by the majority of people, including Muslims, who don't and although some Muslim communities have sharia law courts, their decisions can be superseded by our common law. Jews have had a similar system for centuries.

I believe there is further legislation going through Parliament to further curtail Sharia law courts, especially as it affects women and children. Some of the decisions of these courts fall foul of our discrimination laws and will be curbed. It is an ongoing problem though and more vigilance is required by the authorities. This organisation is campaigning about it and state schools in immigrant areas each their pupils about their common law rights :-

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/new-re...


message 5: by Paul (new)

Paul  Perry (pezski) | 121 comments I'v often thought that democracies should have some clause in their constitutions that prevents them being undermined by manipulation of the democratic process - such as a local majority implementing a religious law (as here, or that town in upstate New York which has been called a Hasidic theocracy), or even voting itself out of existence as happened in pre-war Germany. I guess the problem with that would be that you assume your current system (not just democracy but the current version of democracy) is the best possible system and by protecting it you would be preventing evolution and adaptation. As well, of course, that any government implementing would almost certainly phrase such a measure to protect or, at the very least, favour their own party.

The checks and balances deliberately built into the US system is probably the best way to protect democracy. It's just a shame that the US seems intent on destroying that system.


message 6: by Jimmy (new)

Jimmy "some Muslim communities have Sharia law courts"? Superseded or not, I find that troubling. And then the question becomes for me: Are other news outlets afraid of stepping on Muslim toes on this issue?


message 7: by Paul (new)

Paul  Perry (pezski) | 121 comments Jimmy wrote: ""some Muslim communities have Sharia law courts"? Superseded or not, I find that troubling. And then the question becomes for me: Are other news outlets afraid of stepping on Muslim toes on this is..."

Yes, i do object to this, but two things stand pointing out; firstly, it isn't unique to muslim communities, many jewish communities have a long-standing tradition of community courts. More importantly, to describe them as 'law courts' is incredibly misleading. They are more local, civil courts with no actual authority that usually act as mediators in disputes. Think parish councils but with no actual power other than advisory.

Still, it can be argued that even their existence is anathema in a democratic society as it is possible that they hold more sway over an insular community than does the law. I know that in the case of the jewish versions they, being longer established, tend to work with local authorities and have a very clearly defined advisory role. i'm sure the same is true of some of the islamic courts.

Note that i'm not saying this is a good thing, just that it it certainly isn't the local sharia law panic the tabloid press like to stir up.


message 8: by MadgeUK (last edited Jul 08, 2011 08:49AM) (new)

MadgeUK Jimmy wrote: ""some Muslim communities have Sharia law courts"? Superseded or not, I find that troubling. And then the question becomes for me: Are other news outlets afraid of stepping on Muslim toes on this is..."

No, there has been plenty of press comment about it. Some aspects of 'alternative' sharia law are OK and, as Peter has mentioned, Jews have had the same sort of 'courts' for centuries so there is no real precedent for stepping on it until they overstep the mark. They have no real legality in law and are a sort of 'kangaroo court' which some religious people find more acceptable for doing certain things, more fool them:(.


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

I know that The Daily Mail is notorious but since it claims to quote from a document by a Muslim extremist group I thought it would be worth sharing regardless.

If you want it straight from the horse's mouth, here is the group's site: http://www.muslimsagainstcrusades.com/


message 10: by MadgeUK (new)

MadgeUK A lot of what Muslim extremist groups say is just hot air and bears no relation to the reality of the situation and what is possible under British law or what the majority of British Muslims (who are moderate) want. It is just wishful thinking on their part.


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