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message 1: by Hannah (new)

Hannah Song (yellowflickerheart) Abortion iiisss so not right! I'm Pro-Life. It's murder!


message 2: by [deleted user] (last edited Jul 07, 2011 12:20AM) (new)

Guess I'll be the odd one out who decides to be pro-choice; if you can, you should always pick adoption, I won't deny that, but there are too many situations where abortion is the only right choice. Women who are going to die to birth the child, children who will not live to be born and must suffer until their 9 months are up (not to mention the mothers who will suffer seeing their baby die), women who are not mentally stable - it would be cruel to leave a child with a woman who will not be well from birthing it, and to take it away from her... well, I don't know how that will go either, and frankly, I wouldn't make a woman have a child if it were the product of rape. Now, if it is a woman who got pregnant, could have the baby, could raise it or put it up for adoption, it is a tougher issue, but inevitably, the law is not perfect, and any attempts to restrict abortion to those could restrict women who truly need it. I would rather see a woman who wasn't careful or responsible enough get an abortion than see a woman who would have to carry a child for nine months only to watch it die the moment it left her be unable to get one because of the law. And, inevitably, I do value a woman over an unborn life, and freedom is the one value I hold high. I don't like it, but I couldn't be in favour of anti-abortion legislation.


message 3: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) I have determined that there are four primary reasons that women seek abortions: fear, ignorance, selfishness, and coercion.

A woman who is afraid of raising a child because of lack of support from her partner/family may seek an abortion even if she doesn't want one because she will feel that she'll be rejected if she keeps the child.

An ignorant woman who does not know that an embryo/fetus is a rapidly-developing, living human being may get an abortion just so she can become "un-pregnant." Abortion clinics typically do not disclose details of abortion procedures, so the woman might be told that the procedure will "gently remove the contents of the uterus," and she may never know any different.

A woman who does not want children to interfere with her life plans will seek an abortion so she can do whatever she wants to without taking on the responsibility to raise a child. This is what I mean by selfishness.

Lastly, there have been many cases involving women who were literally forced to have abortions by abusive partners and unsupportive family members.

Abortions involving the health of the mother are not nearly as common as abortions of convenience, at least in the United States. And I believe I have heard a statistic that only 1% of abortions in the US are performed due to rape.

In other words, I can't judge a woman simply on the fact that she has had an abortion. I would need to know her circumstances first.


message 4: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) And yes, it is okay to place a child for adoption. I have known about a dozen families who chose to adopt children, and those children have all lived far better lives than they would have otherwise.


κίρστεν (Kirsten) (kirsten_j) | 32 comments I can't stand it when people give the classic abortion argument with all the crap about 'it's her choice, and why should she have to go through nine months of pregnancy if she didn't want the baby in the first place?'. First of all, if she didn't want a baby, she should have been more careful. Secondly, if we're talking about a situation of rape, she might not have had a choice on that baby to start with, but that doesn't mean that it deserves to be punished for the offender's crime. It deserves a chance at life just like everybody else.

The problem is, most pro-choice arguers don't believe that an unborn baby is a human being with rights.

I had a pretty long and intense argument about abortion in another group, so I'm mostly argued out on this one right now. ^^


message 6: by Dibily Do (new)

Dibily Do | 31 comments I'm doing a compare and contrast essay and I picked how Abortion is like Slavery.

I hate abortions and how they massacre the innocent.


message 7: by Anna (new)

Anna (SylviaGrant) Has anyone else heard about Gianna Jessen or read her biography: Gianna or has watched her speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1Fh.... She is pro-life type of a gal...woman...whatever.


message 8: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) She survived a saline abortion. Yes, I have heard of her. :)


message 9: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments No never heard of her but I think every woman has the right to choose, it is after all her body.

I couldn't terminate a life, but then I had the decision taken out of my hands 3 times during my lifetime. My babies died, I had no choice but it tears you apart all the same and for a while you blame yourself even though there was nothing you could have done to prevent it happening.

I have 3 healthy children of which I am thankful!


message 10: by Anna (new)

Anna (SylviaGrant) I'm sorry about the death of several of your babies Sarah...you know what since you have been a kind and loyal and honest friend, I am going to write you a poem and send it to you. Okay?


message 11: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments Anna wrote: "I'm sorry about the death of several of your babies Sarah...you know what since you have been a kind and loyal and honest friend, I am going to write you a poem and send it to you. Okay?"

Thank you Anna, I look forward to that. I would never condemn anyone for aborting a child, you have to know the circumstances they have to live with their decision, and most of them will come to regret it at some point in their lives.

Things happen for a reason, and some things are just not meant to be. A part of the big picture we call life!


message 12: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments Alexandra wrote: "Guess I'll be the odd one out who decides to be pro-choice; if you can, you should always pick adoption, I won't deny that, but there are too many situations where abortion is the only right choice..."

Okay, I am going to be the second one out. I am pro choice but my deffination is a bit different than most. I think that if you can't have children (for a physical reason) and are attacked and end up pregnant you should be able to have an abortion but if you were messing around and you can have children and end up pregnant you shouldn't get that choice and if you don't want to keep the baby put it up for adoption. I think the people who get pregnant over and over again with multiple abortions are wrong, you know the consequences and should ha e to face them.


message 13: by Rikki (last edited Nov 05, 2011 04:07PM) (new)

Rikki | 25 comments They can any choice they want. Just because it is there choice doesn't make it right.


From the moment the baby is conceived the baby is a human, a person, and don't people have rights. Is it the mother 's choice or the baby's.


I knew this new mother that was pregnant with twins.
She was married and she wanted these babies.
She goes to doctors one day and learns she lung cancer. She has five days left for her and her babies if she doesn't give them up.

I think abortion is not right.
But what about these situations?


message 14: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments In that situation you face losing three lives or two, just like when my best friend was 11 she was attacked and ended up pregnat. She could get an abortion or both her and the baby could die because she physically couldn't be able to carry to full term.


message 15: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) Abort73.com is a pro-life website that has oodles of information about abortion, including testimonies from post-abortive women who regret their decision (and some who didn't), medical facts, abortion alternatives, and more. I encourage everyone, pro-life or not, to go check it out!


message 16: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments Under age I would have thought her mother would have made the choice, and who would want a child that reminded them they had been raped. It would be despised by all the people around it. Living hell for everyone concerned!

Life or death yours or the childs?


message 17: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) Someone whom I went to high school with was raped and became pregnant, and she, knowing that she could not end an innocent child's life solely because of how she was conceived, chose to give birth to her child. This young woman has a very supportive family (sadly, her father passed away this summer from pancreatic cancer; he was a great guy though) who helped her out. Her daughter is about three years old now. She (the mother) goes to school and everything, so one terrible event has not destroyed her life in any way. She turned a tragedy into a blessing by deciding to become a mother to one special little girl.


message 18: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments ^That's a sad story with a happy ending, I wish all stories like that could end in such away.


message 19: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) My mother worked with a woman who was raped when she was 15 and became pregnant. This woman had wanted to give birth to the child and give him/her up for adoption, but her mother forced her to have an abortion against her will. This woman became hooked on drugs and was emotionally unstable, even 19 years after it happened.


message 20: by Sarah (last edited Nov 07, 2011 01:46AM) (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments J. S. wrote: "My mother worked with a woman who was raped when she was 15 and became pregnant. This woman had wanted to give birth to the child and give him/her up for adoption, but her mother forced her to have..."

That's sad, I think that each person is different her mother should have listened better but who's to say the drugs and stuff wouldn't have happened anyway. I have never been raped, and I hope my daughters never suffer in this way either. There for the grace of god! No woman invites a rapist or wants this to happen, but it does and when it does people deal with it in their own way. I know my eldest daughter would abort, and I would stand by her decision.


message 21: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments I agree with Sarah.


message 22: by Adam (new)

Adam I am definitely pro-choice. A woman can decide to do with her body whatever she wishes. There is plenty of time between conception and growth when the cells can hardly be classified as human life. But regardless of that, it's the woman's right to choose.

Secondly, everyone that's totally against abortions, have you considered what would happen if they were made illegal? I mean, I hope everyone here is aware that just because you make it illegal doesn't mean it won't happen. These things will turn into "back alley" procedures that are highly dangerous and people will STILL pay for them. That's the simple economics of the situation.


message 23: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) You make an interesting point, Adam. However, theft is illegal and people still steal. Murder is illegal and people still shoot and stab each other. Methamphetamine is illegal but people still make and use it. Arson is illegal but you still hear about crazies who go around torching buildings.

I beg to differ on your statement that "there is plenty of time between conception and growth when the cells can hardly be classified as human life." I have done extensive research on fetal development, and only during the first couple weeks after conception could this statement be true. (And at this point, most women will not know they are pregnant.) The brain, spinal cord, and heart are already beginning to develop three weeks after conception. The heart begins to pump blood a week later. Tiny facial features and limb buds also appear at this point. Fingers begin to form 6 weeks after conception. By the end of week 8 after conception, all basic organ systems are in place and only need to grow and become fully functional, but they're there, nonetheless. At this point the baby is considered a fetus. (Up until then, it is referred to as an embryo.)

It is really quite fascinating to read about.


message 24: by Adam (new)

Adam That's precisely my point. Even if it's illegal it will be done anyway. In the case of abortion you have the option of doing it safely via government/medical regulation. I can't think of way to commit murder safely via government regulation.

Well, I would also add to the fetus argument that despite the organs "being in place" to grow doesn't mean the being is alive (i.e. it cannot exist without parasitic attachment to the mother host).

Not to mention it is certainly not conscious so you are not causing it any kind of harm.

I should also point out that this stage that I am vehemently against abortion after the being is conscious and capable of feeling actual pain. So there is a limit to my tolerance.


message 25: by Anna (new)

Anna (SylviaGrant) Raising a baby is huge but it would break my heart if I had to abort my baby...not that it has happened to me before but still I adore babies and their special smiles and characters. I mean, it's murder and it's called Abortion. We have to stop this mass-murder!!!!!!


message 26: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) I think that women in crisis situations should seriously consider placing their child up for adoption. I know this could not be an easy choice, but ultimately the choice is better for the child because they will end up living in a more stable environment. I know of many families who have chosen to adopt children, and those children are living far better lives than they would have if their birth mothers had raised them. My husband even had an adopted brother who tragically died from a heart condition when he was 13. My husband's family's decision to adopt has led us to consider doing the same thing.


message 27: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) I wish your friend and her child all the best! I had a miscarriage last year so it makes me a little bit sad when I see other people who are pregnant, but at the same time I feel great joy that those women will get to experience something that I have not. :)


message 28: by Adam (new)

Adam Anna wrote: "Raising a baby is huge but it would break my heart if I had to abort my baby...not that it has happened to me before but still I adore babies and their special smiles and characters. I mean, it's m..."

What do you mean "it's murder and it's called abortion". Abortion and murder do NOT have the same definitions at all...


message 29: by Adam (new)

Adam J. S. wrote: "I wish your friend and her child all the best! I had a miscarriage last year so it makes me a little bit sad when I see other people who are pregnant, but at the same time I feel great joy that tho..."

This comment would make way more sense if the girl in question was not 13. If this was the 1800's maybe it would be more okay, but the way our society has set itself up, this will be extremely difficult for her and may not be the greatest thing. She will no longer be able to live for herself for the rest of her life.


message 30: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments Adam wrote: "J. S. wrote: "I wish your friend and her child all the best! I had a miscarriage last year so it makes me a little bit sad when I see other people who are pregnant, but at the same time I feel grea..."

You have a point Adam, and most teen mom's have to drop out but I wish Jessica's friend the best and hope she continues with her education so she can be successful in this world. Right now in society, no college degree normally means no job.


message 31: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) Right now in society, even having a college degree won't guarantee someone a job since few places are currently hiring. Not everyone is destined to have a white-collar job, anyway.

I'm sure that having a child so young IS difficult, but with the right support from family and the community, the mothers can still have a successful education. I went to high school with many young women who had children in their teens, and I believe almost all of them went on to graduate.


message 32: by Adam (new)

Adam Well that whole college = job thing is crazy. As someone who's working in higher ed and wants to be a professor this reason for going to college undermines the point of university level education. People should want to go to college because they honestly want to enrich their knowledge in a particular subject. I just lectured two classes today ,covering 40+ students, and pretty much everyone in the class hated being there. (I wasn't the problem, they hated it before I even opened my mouth.) In fact the department instructed me to take attendance so that they would be forced to be there. This isn't true for all the classes I've worked with, but it's a ridiculous thing to have to do.

J.S. it is potentially doable for her to go through high school, it just increases her probability of NOT succeeding. (Naturally I hope the best for her.) It would also affect her probability of going on to do university work successfully. It's a lot easier to make it through high school classes, university work is a real heavy commitment. There is a 30 year old that has a kid (probably age 9 or so) and she is having an extremely difficult time just juggling two classes while having a child. If you don't have a major commitment to higher ed, while you're doing it, then you are in danger of getting nothing out of it.

Also, there are quite a few jobs available, but you just need to get a degree in something relatively technical. Getting a degree in Business with a concentration in Management, is not in high demand. Whereas getting a degree in Mechanical Engineering or Electrical Engineering etc. is in very high demand.


message 33: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) Are there any local charities or church groups in your area that could assist her?


message 34: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) I was going to say that if she needed any assistance, there are places where women can get free diapers and baby clothes. And there's a federal assistance program called WIC (in the U.S.; I don't know which country you live in) that certain women qualify for where they can get free milk and things.

I don't know you, and I don't know your friend, and it may be that she DOESN'T deserve any sympathy. But is it wrong to show compassion to people, even when those people have done something wrong?


message 35: by Adam (new)

Adam No it's not wrong to show that compassion, but those people SHOULD learn from their mistakes. If they don't then nothing has been done.


message 36: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments Doesn't matter, she needs to learn from this mistake and it has been shown that if the mistakee is offered a helping hand they remember their mistake better and won't do it again as easily. Also, she may not be nice for reasons you don't know. Someone I know used to be absolutely hateful to everyone (minus a few people), mom always told me to be nice to her (I really wanted to be mean back) and just ignore her because she may be confused or be dealing with issues at home (that doesn't give her an excuse). Come to find out she had some serious issues at home and things that no girl her age should have to cope with.


message 37: by J.S. (new)

J.S. Bailey (jsbailey) I don't mean that people should pamper her. And I agree with Adam and Irene that people should try to learn from their mistakes. I think that sometimes, making mistakes is one of the best ways to learn. It's hard, but it's effective.


message 38: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments Show some compassion, just a little bit is suffice and you don't have to give all. She shouldn't be looking for abunch anyways and shouldn't expect that but you are right there is only so much you can give. Just try and be nice (or something) , just don't be rude.


message 39: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments Yes, it always is. I'm not telling you to do it because I have done this once and it worked and it was easy, I'm telling you to do it because I have done it lots and is has worked and yes it is hard (I make a bit of a game out of it to keep myself form going insane because they are driving me up the wall).


message 40: by Irene (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments Not necessaryily stand up for them just not be harsh to them, being slightly cold but not straight up hateful and mean is what you do. I don't stand up for those people I won't be hateful to them.


message 41: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments J. S. wrote: "I wish your friend and her child all the best! I had a miscarriage last year so it makes me a little bit sad when I see other people who are pregnant, but at the same time I feel great joy that tho..."

I am sorry for your loss, I know how much it hurts both mentally and physically having had it happen to me 3 times. But I still agree with the womans right to choose no one should be forced to do something they don't want. And yes I know that the best form of contraception is the word no but sometimes the brain and the body work against each other.

Jessica's friend is far too young to be having a baby it is dangerous her body is not prepared for the event and it has been proven that women that have children in their early teens have a greater risk of contracting cancer in later life.

I have raised my daughters to know that it is best to wait until they are in a secure relationship and not to take risks, though my little girl is too young for instruction of this kind at 9, when the time comes I will be the one to explain the rights and wrongs and the do's and don'ts to her unlike my mother who told me nothing, she was too embarrassed.


message 42: by Sarah (last edited Nov 24, 2011 08:18AM) (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments Jessica wrote: "And Sarah, it CAN be sort of embarrassing"

What to have your mum explain the facts of life? Weird, I always told my grown up children they could ask me anything and I would answer to the best of my ability simply according to the age of the child and what they need to know.

My daughter tried to embarass me in a joke shop she picked up a plastic encased condom and in a loud voice said mum what's a condom!!!! I simply replied that we had that discussion and she knew exactly what it was and its use. I wasn't the red faced one she was, I am un-shockable she should have remebered that. She was 10 years old at the time!


message 43: by Irene (last edited Nov 24, 2011 05:52PM) (new)

Irene (wingdesilverii) | 2500 comments That's another reason I like my parents, you can ask them anything and they will answer to the best of their ability (it's more of my mother who is open, but then again I don't really ask my dad stuff) AND it isn't awkward. I think the only time it was sorta awkward was when my mother was shocked I had heard something in middle school that she never heard untilled she was an adult. I asked her about what I had heard and she had stared at me in shock for a minute.


message 44: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments Irene wrote: "That's another reason I like my parents, you can ask them anything and they will answer to the best of their ability (it's more of my mother who is open, but then again I don't really ask my dad st..."

The trick is to put your poker face on first - some things I would have to search for the meaning in the dictionary LOL!

Your Mum is of my generation we learned from the mistakes of our parents I was too scared of my father killing me to get pregnant when I was a teenager, I don't suppose he would have actually done it but it stopped me from doing anything stupid for sure.


κίρστεν (Kirsten) (kirsten_j) | 32 comments I wasn't scared of my parents. I didn't get pregnant because I have respect for my body and my own relationships. Before I get that close to any person, I'd want to have commitment in the relationship. I think that's always been a big problem. I know it's a blanket statement, but I don't think that anyone under the age of eighteen should have sex. They're kids. They aren't ready for the emotional complications which that kind of actions bring into a relationship. I suppose that when you get to the root of the problem, that's my take on it.

Anyway, I'm definitely pro-life. If nothing else, carrying that baby to term should teach kids that there ARE consequences for their actions and hopefully make them more careful in the future. Besides that, I believe that the baby is a rational, sentient being and has the right to life just like every other human being.

I have a particular disgust for any woman who aborts her baby because it's got special needs. It's pure selfishness that any mother doesn't want to have a kid who isn't "normal" so-to-speak. I know lots of special needs kids who are sweet, good kids and have every bit as much right to life as we do.


message 46: by Adam (new)

Adam Yet just a little over a hundred years ago it was okay for teens to get married and in some cases girls were married off to much older men. So why were they ready back then, but as time has gone on they're not ready for sex now?

I don't think you've thought about what you're saying with your stance on pro-life. Carrying a child to term should NOT be a punishment. You clearly care nothing for the child being brought into a household where it is unwanted. So whenever the mother looks at this child she should see the punishment for her actions, I don't even think we treat murders with this level of a life sentence.

Finally, despite the fact that you have met sweet special needs children, surely you can understand the level of economic cost and sacrifice of a persons life to raise that kind of a child. While I don't agree with aborting for this case, I can still understand the motivation behind why you would want to do it. I am also in favor of hopefully one day having technology at a suitable level to make every child born without special needs of a severe nature.


message 47: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Weldon (sarahrweldon-author) | 6045 comments Adam wrote: "Yet just a little over a hundred years ago it was okay for teens to get married and in some cases girls were married off to much older men. So why were they ready back then, but as time has gone o..."

I was given the option of an amnio after a blood test for Downs Syndromewhen - I found out I was expecting at the ripe old age of 45, I declined and even if the result had been bad I wouldn't have aborted.

My chances were higher than they had expected but still only 1-36 of my child being severely handicapped.

She was born healthy and normal and I have never regretted my decision, she is almost 10 years old now.


message 48: by Adam (new)

Adam Sarah R wrote: "Adam wrote: "Yet just a little over a hundred years ago it was okay for teens to get married and in some cases girls were married off to much older men. So why were they ready back then, but as ti..."

That's wonderful and I am happy for you, but my point still stands.


κίρστεν (Kirsten) (kirsten_j) | 32 comments Adam wrote: "Yet just a little over a hundred years ago it was okay for teens to get married and in some cases girls were married off to much older men. So why were they ready back then, but as time has gone o..."

Just because it happened a hundred years ago doesn't mean it was right. I don't think they were ready back then either. Every era has its problems. That was one of their problems. Today, it's a bit more voluntary on the part of the teen. Those girls were often in arranged marriages. It wasn't any better emotionally for them that it is for girls today.

Think about it. Bad relationships cause unnecessary stress and often depression in ADULTS. It's much worse when the people in the relationship are kids. Heck, some adults don't ever develop the emotional maturity for a mutually beneficial relationship. Teens really don't need to get into that crap.

And yes, I have thought over my opinions on pro-life. I know that adoption is NOT the most ideal situation for children, but it's better than just TERMINATING their lives before they even have a chance.

I DO, however, care about the child being brought up in a home where it's not wanted. I know what that's like, and I know it's not pretty. But frankly, speaking from my own experience, I think that any person would rather have been born and have the chance to decide for him/her self rather than simply not exist. MOST people are happy to be alive.

As for your last comment, I reserve my judgment for the day it makes an appearance, but I'm not really sure I like the idea of designer babies. But that's opening up a whole new can of worms...


message 50: by Anna (new)

Anna (SylviaGrant) Bravo Kristin!!! Very well done and written. You write with excellence and power with the words.


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