The Sword and Laser discussion

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message 1: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Anyone want an invite to G+ then send me a dm with email addy and i will see what i can do :)


message 2: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments I saw this today from a forum post by a google employee

https://groups.google.com/a/googlepro...

which leads to this

https://services.google.com/fb/forms/...


message 3: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Heard rumours sign ups working again - if you asked (received or not) for invite check out plus.google.com and see if you can get in

good luck


message 4: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments Got mine, thanks a lot! It took a couple of hours. Don't know if there's a general waiting time or if they just send out invites in bulk.


message 5: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments I have heard it is bulk - but also if anyone asked for an invite it is worth checking the plus.google.com page as the invite seems to work even if you have not received it. Then you just need to get in past the signup page - which is often closed. It opens for a brief period - err - periodically so check often.


message 6: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments Just a note for anyone else. I had to wait nearly 24 hours for the invites to reach me, but then had no problems signing up at all. I guess it's different for everyone, but it might help to know that it really can take a while.


message 7: by Bengun (new)

Bengun | 1 comments i signed up for the "keep me posted" email the first day but have gotten nothing yet, and i've used every google service since very near the beginning. anyone with invites,, i would very much like one.


message 8: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments My invites got through after nearly a 24 hour waiting time. I'm not exactly sure, but I might have invites as well. Just don't expect them to work right away. If you want one, just DM me and I'll see what I can do.


message 9: by Nick (last edited Jul 06, 2011 06:08AM) (new)

Nick (whyzen) | 1295 comments Paul signed me up and I got the invite email yesterday afternoon but whenever I go to the google plus site I'm still only getting the "Already invited? We've temporarily exceeded our capacity. Please try again soon." message. Did a web search and seems I'm not the only one. Sounds like they are metering the profile creation. Of course even that could be just a guess.


message 10: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments Nick, a friend of mine has the same issue. She got the invite and can't activate her account. I guess it's just the issue that they're letting in people sporadically. But I wouldn't know for sure. I guess I just got lucky that I could sign in right away.


message 11: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Basically your invite has worked - and you need to go to that site (or refresh) when they open the doors. They basically say ok lets have another 500 people - open the doors - GO! Then shut the door again. Not sure of actual numbers but this seems like the method. It has nothing to do with when you got invite.

So keep checking refreshing as often as you can


message 12: by Nick (last edited Jul 06, 2011 07:35AM) (new)

Nick (whyzen) | 1295 comments Hehe .. I work at a computer during the day. I've been doing just what you suggest Paul. Google will probably start blocking me soon thinking I'm part of a "Denial Of Service" attack. I'll get in eventually.


message 13: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Keep pounding on that door - when they open the door and say "STOP THAT!" Stick your foot in the door and don't remove it until they let you in!


message 14: by Nick (new)

Nick (whyzen) | 1295 comments Woot! Foot is smashed and I finally got logged on. :-) Thanks Paul!


message 15: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Cool - glad to see you in - now you will say - "um - ok - now what?" :)


message 16: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments By the way - Tom and Veronica are on their - I could post their profile links (which is public) but not sure if that is rude or not!


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

I'd say let them link to their own profiles, just to be on the safe side.


message 18: by Otto (new)

Otto (andrewlinke) | 110 comments Just got in last night. Not 100% sure how I'll use it, but it feels like a better facebook or twitter. I can't wait for the API to stabilize so I can start piping things in and out. I totally see G+ being my home, with the rest of the net piping through it.


message 19: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Just heard plus.google.com is open for those who had invites - but i cannot confirm


message 20: by Jim (new)

Jim french (jfrnch) | 1 comments Hi, just thought I'd check, anyone got an extra invite for this.(google+)
thanks :)


message 21: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments send me a message with your email addy


message 22: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Invite button has reappeared on g+ if you have invite already go to plus.google.com


message 23: by Sean (new)

Sean O'Hara (seanohara) | 2365 comments Finally got in. Thanks Paul.

I believe this links to my profile but it's hard to tell with the lack of documentation and all.


message 24: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Cool - yes it does go to your profile - enjoy


message 25: by Micah (new)

Micah (onemorebaker) | 1071 comments I'm in too! Add me to a S&L circle if you want!

https://plus.google.com/1078858551683...


message 26: by Micah (new)

Micah (onemorebaker) | 1071 comments Wheres everybody else's profile! I need links for an S&L circle


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

I want google+ please.


message 28: by aldenoneil (new)

aldenoneil | 1000 comments Micah wrote: "Wheres everybody else's profile! I need links for an S&L circle"

It'd be nice if they had official group circles, like if we could all choose to follow and be followed by S&L members, as Friendfeed did. That's not a possibility now.

And Ninja, if you are what you say, you should be able to sneak in anywhere.


message 29: by Anne (last edited Jul 09, 2011 12:32AM) (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments My profile is http://gplus.to/anneschuessler

Do we need an extra thread for that or can we use this one to exchange links for the S&L circles?


message 30: by Paul (last edited Jul 09, 2011 03:02AM) (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments If you want an invite send me a direct message with the email address you would like it sent to

I will set up a new thread for profiles - see here
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...


Jenny (Reading Envy) (readingenvy) | 2898 comments I am here if you want a S&L circle.


message 32: by Lepton (new)

Lepton | 176 comments http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/01/paul...

http://www.slideshare.net/padday/the-...

Google+ is not Facebook. If you are adding people into your Circles that don't know or never will know, you are doing it wrong.

Google's own research shows that people in their real life social networks tend to have 4 to 6 groups or "circles" with between 2 to 10 people in those groups. The tools that Google has provided in Google+ are really meant to service real life connections.

I am not saying that the internet doesn't afford new ways to interact and new types of relationships, but Circles are specifically meant to share with a specific set of people and, likely, people that you know.

Sharing publicly in Google+ makes little to no sense, despite the fact that Googlers seems to be doing it themselves. Twitter is for public sharing, or Buzz, or a blog or website.

Following a bunch of folks on Google+ or throwing them into Circles is not going to give a positive experience. Ask Robert Scoble. The tools in Google+ are meant more to service real world connections in a virtual space not to service all your virtual relationships in one interface.


message 33: by Paul (last edited Jul 09, 2011 11:14AM) (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Actually I disagree and to be honest I stopped following Scoble on other services - but I do on + because I find his self belief a bit too much to swallow. I have lots of google staff in a google circle, I have tech journalists in their own circle, I have the odd celeb in another and you lot in one of your own - and then I have family and friends in their own circles.

When I share I share with the relevant circle - mainly family and friends - often it is game related and I share with that group on that. Sometimes I share with all the groups - but never with the googlers or with the tech journalists - except accident.

Google + works better with these types of circles with people I do not know than twitter (because ffs how useless is twitter) or FB which to be honest has screwed it up. It works better too with friends or groups I know because I can focus my sharing properly.

It works both ways - for sharing to specific people and for filtering the content I want to focus on.

Having a group from here may seem odd to some as this forum is best placed to share content around books etc but as this is early days finding people you know even remotely is difficult. Therefore getting together in + is no bad idea.

My 2p worth
Paul
Always doing it wrong


Jenny (Reading Envy) (readingenvy) | 2898 comments Yeah I don't think there is a wrong way.. I'd feel better having everything in one place, for once.


message 35: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Invites are back BTW - let me know if you want one.


message 36: by Nick (new)

Nick (whyzen) | 1295 comments Lepton wrote: "Google+ is not Facebook. If you are adding people into your Circles that don't know or never will know, you are doing it wrong."

I'll use the service the way I see fit. Regardless of if you think I'm "doing it wrong". I understand your opinion on the way the service should be used, even if it is expressed as fact. I think with social networks people will use it the way they want to use it and in general will stop using a network if it no longer provides a service they feel of benefit to them. That's the beauty of diversity. Everyone has their own way of doing things.


message 37: by Lepton (new)

Lepton | 176 comments http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/09/scob...

I can guarantee you that, if one somehow were to add merely 10% of the Sword and Laser Group population into a Circle and most of those people choose to share publicly like the Twitter model, your S&L Stream will be noisy and useless.

Similarly, as in the above referenced link, if there are a few people who use the service a great deal, they will dominate your streams such that you may never wish to hear from them again.

Twitter, Facebook, blogs, etc are for broadcast. Google+ is meant for focused sharing and conversation.

Look at Hangouts. Ten people maximum. While I suspect that is also a technical limitation, it is perfectly scaled to Google's own research as the largest size group in people's real social circles, ten people.

I haven't used Huddle and I don't know if there is a maximum number of user, but I have been in chat situations with well over ten people in them, sometimes hundreds. There is no way to have any kind of coherent and sensible conversation with than many people in the mix. There are limits to people's attention and cognition.

I would strongly caution people against creating large Circles, following as many people as you might on Twitter, and sharing most things publicly. I simply don't think the tools are there to filter, search, and screen content if you are putting too much into your Streams.


message 38: by Nevan (new)

Nevan | 143 comments Lepton wrote:

I can guarantee you that, if one somehow were to add merely 10% of the Sword and Laser Group population into a Circle and most of t..."


TL;DR: You're doing it wrong. ;P


message 39: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Lepton - you have not understood the circles. Only if people share publicly is this the issue - but people generally share with a circle - that is the whole point.

If people publish crap to all circles then I will remove them from the circle. However I can filter my stream - only look at certain streams. I cannot do this easily with FB. Also in FB people cannot easily share with a small group.

Hangouts are limited for technical reasons - also they go up to 30 - you just cannot start them with more than 10

Huddles and hangouts are not the same as circles. They serve different purposes.

Anyway - I have a group of over 100 people from a game I play - and yes it does make the main stream noisy but it is noisy anyway so I user the circles to filter it as - i guess it was meant to do. Plus I understand that the we will be able to set each circle to appear in the main stream or not. This will make it evern easier to show just those circle that I want to see.

Anyway - no one is making you create a circle for S&L - nor recipricate by adding back if you are added to say mine circle. You can of course even block us.

I will however have my circles how I want them - I do not need to follow advice even if it comes from scoble - he is not god :) I know he thinks he is.

Anyway - am off to add a few more people to my circles

Chow


message 40: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments The key for these social networks is finding out how they work and what to do with them. So far I find Google+ pretty intriguing because it somehow is a mixture of facebook, Twitter and tumblr.

I admit that I mostly use facebook because it's the place where everybody is these days and because I got hooked on Farmville (yeah, I'd rather not talk about it), not because I especially like it. The idea of circles is exactly what's missing facebook.

Twitter on the other hand isn't that great for sharing content, which is what I love about Google+ so far.

I use my blog for my own writing and only rarely share the stuff I stumbled upon on the web, I use Tumblr for that, but Tumblr doesn't have any real commenting options.

Basically I don't know yet how I will use Google+ and whether I will like it or not. But the general concept is different and even innovative and I love playing around with it to see how it goes.


message 41: by Tim (new)

Tim (zerogain) | 93 comments I was relating the mild controversy on this thread to a friend and his response was, "How can you use a tool wrong."

So I came up with the analogy of typing with a hammer. His response:

"If you can somehow do it, then you've just figured out how to use the hammer differently, not wrong."

Heh. Come to think of it, he's right.


message 42: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments Tim wrote: "I was relating the mild controversy on this thread to a friend and his response was, "How can you use a tool wrong."

So I came up with the analogy of typing with a hammer. His response:

"If you c..."


Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Especially with those social networking or content sharing tools, although there might be an intended way of using them, ultimately the people who use the tools this way or another decide how it *is* use.

These tools also evolve with what their users decide to do with them and the feedback they give. Not sure if the guys who founded Twitter could say exactly how their service would be used. So, as long as people are using the tools and like using them and continue to do so, I guess you cannot say that they're using it wrong. They might just be using them differently from you and/or the way the "tool makers" originally intended them to. No harm done.


message 43: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments I am betting the guys who founded twitter never imagined it's success. 200m+ posts per day!


message 44: by Lepton (last edited Jul 12, 2011 07:15AM) (new)

Lepton | 176 comments Undoubtedly physical tools like hammers or scissors have different affordances and those affordances are based on what the tool is meant to do, what it was designed for. While one could type with a hammer, it's not what a hammer is for and you'll like end up with a broken keyboard.

While Twitter has developed over its life in part due to the response of its user, @ replies and re-tweets being the most salient examples, Twitter still has only 144 characters and supports conversations very poorly. Twitter is for broadcasting. It only affords certain types of interactions and certain types of communications.

I think a more apt analogy here might be comparing relational databases to flat file spreadsheets. Complex hierarchical data is generally not appropriate for spreadsheets. The tools in a database program are meant to store and analyze certain types of data that would be inappropriate to manage in flat file spreadsheets.

Google has created tools in Google+ that are meant to handle and represent relationships in very specific ways. My fear is that if people start using Google+ in the same manner and with the same mindset as they use Facebook and/or Twitter, they will find that:

1. The tools to handle hundreds of contacts and their "sharing" are not there
2. They end up repeating the same mistakes of the past with respect creating and managing their social graph as occurred on Facebook (i.e. numerous, diffuse, and relatively meaningless connections and information)

Facebook is like a spreadsheet or a mere list where the data has no structure. Your social ties in Facebook have no weight or structure except what you bring to how you use it, whereas Google+ specifically allows with Circles to structure and give weight to those ties in data and in its user interface.

I fear if people just dump their Facebook data and Twitter followings into Google+, they will end up with a confusing mess.

That said, I think Google+ is great but I hope that people do not become discouraged if and when they bring the same behaviors and attitudes from other social platforms into Google+ and find that it does not support or does not support well those ways of thinking and doing.


message 45: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Lepton - some of those factors/fears I see already. People saying "why can't I ...." or "this doesn't do xyz like fb". Some are features that have not yet been implemented but some are behaviours from those other systems and may never come over.

I miss my real friends and family on + but I don't want to force them over until it is a settled system.

Paul


message 46: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments Invites still available. Send me a DM with your email address if you want one.


message 47: by Sanjiv (new)

Sanjiv | 21 comments I like this discussion on how to use Google+, or twitter, or all these technologies in conjunction. It's kind of like creating a new culture through trial and error, but if you guys have found good balances, let's hear em.


message 48: by Paul (new)

Paul Kelly (ptekelly) | 206 comments saw this posted today about G+

If you address it to "Public," it's a blog post.

If you address it to "Your Circles" it's a tweet.

If you address it to your "My Customers" Circle it's a business newsletter.

If you address it to a single person, it can be a letter to your mother.


message 49: by Lepton (last edited Jul 31, 2011 05:01PM) (new)

Lepton | 176 comments HA! Vindicated!!

Just heard Veronica say on TWiT (twit.tv) that she tried to make a Circle with S&L folks in it, 150 people or so, and she said it was not working as she wanted it to. She's seeing things in her streams from people she does not know. She implied that this is not the intended use for Google+.


message 50: by Anne (new)

Anne Schüßler (anneschuessler) | 838 comments I'm currently following about 100 people and I don't feel like I'm having issues with content overflow in a way that I can't handle it. I'm only following 90 people on Twitter and I feel a lot more overwhelmed there, so I don't know what it is. Either I am more forgiving with Google+ or the content differs in a way that makes it easier to handle.

What I would really like to have is a way to customize my main stream to exclude people or circles that I don't necessarily need to have in my main stream. But I don't think that is proof that I'm using it wrong.

I actually think that Google+ is better tailored to follow more people as compared to facebook, since the relationship doesn't have to be confirmed by the other party and the circles are an easy way to organize the people you want to read updates from.

With facebook I can only really interact with people I know and who know me. Unfortunately those are not necessarily people who post things that I find interesting. They're my friends and acquaintances, but they do not all share my interests. Google+ is a lot more content-based which makes it more interesting for me and I don't need to wonder whether it would be weird to add someone to my circles who I don't really know, since it isn't implied that I'm actually friends with them.


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