A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion

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Was anyone else upset? (big spoilers for book 3)

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message 1: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Ok, I know that George R.R. Martin kills of his characters like nothing, but I mean, I was just so upset after Robb died in the 3rd book... Its like, nothing can go right for any of them! I have my favorites, but now I am scared to care...

Does anyone think we will be getting a satisfying ending after all is said and done?


message 2: by Clark (new)

Clark Coston (tesko) | 44 comments I think that depends on what you define as "satisfying." If by "satisfying" you mean "happy," then no. GRRM has said before that the ending will be bittersweet. I personally think the ending will be very satisfying.

As for Robb getting a new head, I personally don't mourn the loss. Robb was far too much like his father for me to find him interesting as a character, and like his father, Robb simply did not know how to play the game. I think it is unfortunate that Robb had to pay for the sins of his forebearers, however. The Freys had been looked down upon and dismissed by the Tullys for a long time and Robb's transgressions were the last straw. The Lannisters were very smart to take advantage of that.

Think of it this way; if House Stark does make a come back, it will be all the sweeter.


message 3: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Yeah, you are right, Clark... I guess I do want the Starks to kind of ''win'' in the end, but I do know that this is a different kind of a story and that is one of the reasons why I love it so much... You never know what will happen, and the fact its bringing all of these emotions in me, makes me love it even more. :)

I heard mixed reviews about book 4... Is it really that bad?


message 4: by Matt (new)

Matt Essell (Mithandriel) | 13 comments Maja wrote: "I heard mixed reviews about book 4... Is it really that bad? "

AFFC is fine. It is a little slower moving than the other books but there are definitely worthwhile parts. Everyone's biggest gripe about it is that there is no Jon, Bran or Tyrion.


message 5: by Miss Kate (new)

Miss Kate (misskatesays) | 46 comments Matt wrote: "Maja wrote: "I heard mixed reviews about book 4... Is it really that bad? "

AFFC is fine. It is a little slower moving than the other books but there are definitely worthwhile parts. Everyone'..."


I agree. Plenty DOES happen, but you're only getting half the story (since it was originally supposed to be much longer). I enjoyed it, but it's the shortest one of the series.


message 6: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Matt wrote: "Maja wrote: "I heard mixed reviews about book 4... Is it really that bad? "

AFFC is fine. It is a little slower moving than the other books but there are definitely worthwhile parts. Everyone'..."


So, wait, whose POVs do we see in that book then?? And are Jon and Tyrion just not in it at all or do we see them through other peoples POV?

Coz, I am going to be missing those 2!


message 7: by Chris (new)

Chris  (haughtc) Feast for Crows POVs(view spoiler)


message 8: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Chris wrote: "Feast for Crows POVs[spoilers removed]"

Thank you! :)


message 9: by Raquel (new)

Raquel (raquelg) | 2 comments I was also very upset when Robb died. I was really rooting for the Starks. If I'd had a book and not my nook I probably would've thrown it across the room!! AFFC is definitely slower moving but I honestly found book 2 to be harder to get through. I think because I've become so invested in the characters at this point it's easier to read through the "dull" moments. I am really starting to like Jaime though and I am enjoying watching Cersei deteriorate.

(And hi I'm new!)


message 10: by Jayme (new)

Jayme (jaymetheghostreader) | 1113 comments I like the Starks too Raquel. I was upset with the entire Red Wedding,


message 11: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Raquel wrote: "I was also very upset when Robb died. I was really rooting for the Starks. If I'd had a book and not my nook I probably would've thrown it across the room!! AFFC is definitely slower moving but I h..."

Hello!

I was actually reading it on my Kindle and after he got killed I threw it on the couch (gently)... :)


message 12: by Jennifer (new)

Jennifer | 4 comments I have a friend that threw the book accross the room after the red wedding and took a big break (like almost 2 years) before reading AFFC

Anyone hoping that Dany wins in the end? If it can't be the Starks then at least the Targaryens. As long as the Lannisters don't win!


message 13: by Mach (new)

Mach | 198 comments I am pretty sure Dany will become the queen.


message 14: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I still haven't finished 3rd book (a few hundred pages left) and I still have 4th left... so I am not sure what will happen, but I hope its either Jon or Dany.. After Robb died, Jon was kind of my last Stark hope (even if he is Snow)... We shall see...
But no Lannisters, no Freys, no Stannis... I don't want anyone else...


message 15: by Mach (new)

Mach | 198 comments I wouldn't mind Stannis, i like him.


message 16: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments So far for me Stannis feels kind of weak...


message 17: by Raquel (new)

Raquel (raquelg) | 2 comments Jennifer wrote: "I have a friend that threw the book accross the room after the red wedding and took a big break (like almost 2 years) before reading AFFC

Anyone hoping that Dany wins in the end? If it can't be th..."


I almost took a break from reading it, but I had to know what was going to happen next!! lol

I am starting to love Dany and I definitely see her as being at least a big contender if not the Queen. I also think that Jon would be a great King. Ideally the two of them could rule together!


message 18: by Karen (new)

Karen Azinger | 256 comments I like the Starks, but I don't think GRRM believes in happy endings.


message 19: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I mean, a lot of them have died alerady... It would be nice if a few that are left had a happy ending. Or are we going to be left with just one of them? Well, I am for Jon and Arya (out of Stark clan)...


message 20: by Jayme (new)

Jayme (jaymetheghostreader) | 1113 comments There are still Starks left: Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickeron, and Jon


message 21: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I don't expect much from Sansa. But she is with Littlefinger now and he is a master of the game... She might learn something. She might still surprise us all... Lets hope...
Rickon is still so young...
I guess we shall see...


message 22: by Karen (new)

Karen Azinger | 256 comments Littlefinger is a very interesting character. I really liked the actor who played him in HBO.


message 23: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I know!! Theu picked the perfect actor to play him... And reading after he told Sansa all he did, I was like - Respect, dude! He played them all!


message 24: by Karen (new)

Karen Azinger | 256 comments The actor was so good, I liked Littlefinger in HBO even more than I liked him in the book! Such a smart, scheming character. Very interesting. He is like the wildcard in the deck. He is totally out for himself, yet you never quite know what he is going to do. This wildcard aspect is what makes him so intriguing to me.


message 25: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I do hope he survives George R.R. Martin... :)


message 26: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Ok, finished book 3 and I have to say that with all the bad stuff that happened, the ending chapters for the characters felt kind of satisfying in a way.
Started A Feast for Crows last night... I want to have it done before July 12.


message 27: by Karen (new)

Karen Azinger | 256 comments I think Littlefinger and Tyrion will both survive to the end, but everyone else is up for grabs!


message 28: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I wonder if George R.R. knows how everything is going to end.
With Tyrion, after all he has been through, I would be sad if he died.
Littlefinger is smart. I am sure if anyone can find the way to survive, he can.
I am still hoping for Jon...


message 29: by Karen (new)

Karen Azinger | 256 comments I'm hoping for Jon too but GRRM can be really bloody!


message 30: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments And that is why we love him and hate him at the same time. :)
I really can't remember last time I had so much fun reading a book. I love not knowing what will happen on the next page!


message 31: by Lia (new)

Lia (bastet) | 8 comments Maja wrote: "I was actually reading it on my Kindle and after he got killed I threw it on the couch (gently)... :)"

heehee, this cracks me up. i read the red wedding way back BEFORE there were kindles and nooks :p and i definitely threw my book across the room. and yeah, people are mostly really upset by that event. i've heard people call it "the fireplace scene" because it makes people want to throw the book in the fireplace. probably not a good idea to do that with a kindle though ;)

i think the part that upset me most (besides the setback for the starks) was that they beheaded grey wind :( i don't like when those wolves die, at all.

i think the starks will come back - i see arya as kickass assassin, sansa as some kind of gracious queen who rebuilds winterfell, jon as leader (maybe king? but he swore to never wear a crown in his vows). bran will do something amazing and magical, maybe warg into a dragon? maybe it will be king rickon.

but i don't think it will just be the starks who win out in the end - i think it will be 1 person from each major family (stark, targaryen and lannister) - maybe jon, dany and tyrion... though it could be bran, dany and jamie too, for all we know!

it is so fun, i agree. these are my favorite books EVAR, and i can't wait for adwd!


message 32: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Lia wrote: "Maja wrote: "I was actually reading it on my Kindle and after he got killed I threw it on the couch (gently)... :)"

heehee, this cracks me up. i read the red wedding way back BEFORE there were ki..."


I totally agree with the fireplace scene thing! If I had a book and a fireplace... I think I would have had to buy a new book for sure! :)

I also hate it when wolves die! Poor Lady never had a shot and now Grey Wind... And Arya lost hers... Sad.

Oh, so I read a theory somewhere that the Cold Hands guy might be Ben Stark! What do you guys think about that?!? Interesting...


message 33: by Jon (new)

Jon (FTSJ) | 41 comments I have a feeling somehow the end will blow us all away, sort of like "I woke up and it was all a dream ending", but not that, just equal to the capacity of that punch to the face.


message 34: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I dont think it will be like that. I am sure we are going to get a ''normal'' sort of ending. I just don't think a lot of the characters we know will make it there...


message 35: by Lani (new)

Lani (lanisison) | 6 comments Tom wrote: "I have a feeling somehow the end will blow us all away, sort of like "I woke up and it was all a dream ending", but not that, just equal to the capacity of that punch to the face."

I hope not. I hate it when stories go down that route.


message 36: by Karen (new)

Karen Azinger | 256 comments I agree with Maja. I think it will be a "normal" ending, but many of our favorite characters will be dead. In some ways it is easier for an author to kill characters than it is to untangle a complex weave of plots. But I am hoping George can do it. We'll get a better idea with Dance with Dragons. So soon....


message 37: by Jennifer (new)

Jennifer | 4 comments Raquel wrote: I am starting to love Dany and I definitely see her as being at least a big contender if not the Queen. I also think that Jon would be a great King. Ideally the two of them could rule together!

If there's any truth to the speculation of Jon's parents than that would stay true to the Targaryen's marrying their own blood!!


message 38: by Arianne (new)

Arianne  (biatchwithwifi) I rooted for Robb to man-up and be the hero that Ned failed to become because of untimely death. Robb not getting a POV chapter in the books was actually foreboding, i think.

But i really hated the fact that he died. He's character was really interesting because he was essentially the hero in the story (aCoK & aSoS) because the people chose him to be their king; unlike the others who just assumed it for themselves (yes, i'm talking about you Renly).

I loved him for following his heart rather than marrying a Frey, but I was literally screaming at my book when he cast aside his direwolf, Grey Wind at his wife's insistence.

I practically agonized with/for him when he was winning the battle front but unfortunately losing his fort in the North to no less than Theon, an almost brother to him. Basically, I wanted to see him triumph to prove that there is still hope in that seemingly-godforsaken-land-called-Westeros.

I have not yet read aDwD, i heard major events aer revealed there that will tip the balance (to whose favor, i really don't know as well). I think the prophecy will be fulfilled (of a promised prince etc.) and the great battle will be between a unified Westeros against the Others, because as we are all aware of...Winter is coming.


message 39: by Roshio (new)

Roshio | 6 comments Arianne wrote: "I rooted for Robb to man-up and be the hero that Ned failed to become because of untimely death. Robb not getting a POV chapter in the books was actually foreboding, i think.

But i really hated t..."


I agree about the lack of a POV being a warning to the reader, beware...same story with Ned Stark. Then again Feast of Crows spoiler ---> (view spoiler)
Moral of the story, don't care too much.


message 40: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Roshio wrote: "Arianne wrote: "I rooted for Robb to man-up and be the hero that Ned failed to become because of untimely death. Robb not getting a POV chapter in the books was actually foreboding, i think.

But..."


Ned did have a POV in the first book... And Brienne... I am not so sure about that one...


message 41: by Roshio (new)

Roshio | 6 comments ah did he? I haven't read that in a long time. Ah there goes that theory. So basically anyone's up for grabs.


message 42: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments Roshio wrote: "ah did he? I haven't read that in a long time. Ah there goes that theory. So basically anyone's up for grabs."

It does seem that more people without POVs die, but Ned did and so did Catelyn... even though... and also later on... Yep, pretty much, eveyone is up for grabs!


message 43: by Emman (new)

Emman Stark (emmanstark) | 13 comments the red wedding still upsets and haunts me up to now


message 44: by Arianne (new)

Arianne  (biatchwithwifi) Emman wrote: "the red wedding still upsets and haunts me up to now"

I am anxiously waiting for HBO to film this scene. I was pretty satisfied with how they stuck to the books in season 1; that they were able to evoke the same feelings I had when I was reading about Ned's death at the great sept. So yeah, I'm looking forward to experiencing that tragedy in full color, I'm a masochist that way.


message 45: by Timmysparks (new)

Timmysparks I was in shock when the Frey attacked the Starks and their bannermen. I knew something bad was going to happen at that wedding but i never saw the death of Robb and Catelyn coming. And Grey Wind! Poor wolf! He knew there was danger in there that's was he was vicious coming in but Robb never paid attention to Grey Wind's instincts. Too sad! It seems like nothing can go right for the Starks.


message 46: by Jayme (new)

Jayme (jaymetheghostreader) | 1113 comments Just wait til you get to the other books :)


message 47: by Maja (new)

Maja (maja_montero) | 105 comments I don't know... For me the RW was probably the most shocking scene... And the one that got to me the most...


message 48: by Jayme (new)

Jayme (jaymetheghostreader) | 1113 comments It is shocking. I am not doubting that. GRRM knows how to keep the story interesting.


message 49: by Emman (new)

Emman Stark (emmanstark) | 13 comments Maja wrote: "Ok, I know that George R.R. Martin kills of his characters like nothing, but I mean, I was just so upset after Robb died in the 3rd book... Its like, nothing can go right for any of them! I have my..."

i know.. the red wedding is depressing! and i consider robb as one of my book heroes! i felt like the starks had been played cruelly by the gods


message 50: by Emman (new)

Emman Stark (emmanstark) | 13 comments George Martin said that he wept and lament on the characters that he killed but their all been planned and it just didnt come in an instant...

i wish walder frey dies... horribly....


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