Ok so im making a list.

[Chris]

On a side note to the editing for length and selling as YA, the first two Robert Jordan and the first Terry Brooks books were done that way. They were split into two volumes each and renamed, as if they were trying to trick kids into picking up "shorter" books. Oh and enlarged fonts. The actual contents were unchanged.

Except (ironically perhaps) in that first Jordan one, where they actually addeda prologue, making the overall even longer than originally.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

From what I can gather there were also some editings for sexual content, though I can't find anything specific - just vague references to it.

Chris wrote: "But I still think of late teen to twenties as "young". Maybe because I'm working on getting "old"."

But that's based entirely on your assumption that it was targeted to late teens to twenties because that's the age gamers are. I know many older gamers who might take some offense at that. :>

Definitionally, though, young adult is from 14 - 21, so, yes, teens into twenties is the targeted age range. I won't disagree that it's too large of a range, since there's a wide disparity of maturity in that age range.

However, I will also add that there's a lot of shit which is middle-grade/juvenile lit which is not labelled as YA and yet which popularly gets called YA - and by popularly I mean by readers, not by marketers or bookstores.

[Chris]

Hey! I was an older gamer myself for a time there. Heh...

I'm assuming that was the target audience because that's what it seemed the the publishers were doing back in the late eighties. The gamers were assumed to be in that age group and the publishers were spinning out novels to appeal to that same group. It was the same publishers that were putting out the games as it was the novels. (TSR back in the day, later merging with Wizards of the Coast).

They had good product sales on their gaming books and were trying to capitalize on that by aiming at the same people for novels. It actually worked both ways - the early novels helped garner interest in the gaming materials as well.

I'll agree on the popularity labeling of middle-grade/juvenile stuff.

[Chris]

Though if there's some sexual content in Dragonlance, I might need to go back and re-read. Wowsa...

[[deleted user]]

Chris wrote: "Though if there's some sexual content in Dragonlance, I might need to go back and re-read. Wowsa..."

It was pretty mild (view spoiler)[Tanis had a thing with Kitiara in book 2 or 3 I think. Wasn't super descriptive if I recall. (hide spoiler)]

[Chris]

Oh, yeah. OK. (view spoiler)[Kitiara....yummy. LOL (hide spoiler)]

[Kevin]

Chris wrote: "That's an interesting letter. Thanks for sharing that.

I'll stick by my opinion on it though. Sure, they weren't written for 8-year olds. But I still think of late teen to twenties as "young". May..."

The definition of "young adult" as used in publishing is books targeted at 14-21-year-olds. The 'adult' part of the term is equally important as the 'young'.

8-year-olds fall into the children's fiction category.

[Mridupawan]

if you are new, start with LOTR. and end with LOTR too.

But for a newbie, i would suggest Terry Goodkinds, 'Sword of truth' Series. Few characters and extremely awesome. Then RObert Jordan's 'Wheel of Time' and by then you will know enough :D

[James]

Freelancer wrote: "if you are new, start with LOTR. and end with LOTR too.

But for a newbie, i would suggest Terry Goodkinds, 'Sword of truth' Series. Few characters and extremely awesome. Then RObert Jordan's 'Whee..."

I would have to recommend staying away from the Sword of Truth series. I was stubborn and insisted on reading it despite what others had said, and I regretted it. While the first 4 or 5 books are great, they go downhill really fast and are almost unreadable.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I didn't step in as it's a matter of opinion. Some love the "entire series" others...don't. I'd say Wizard's First Rule is okay, but as the series goes on Goodkind is more involved in converting his readers to his views than he is in telling a story... My opinion. Liked the first two or three books, got sick of his preaching soon thereafter, thought the last book...disappointing.

We'll never all agree here.

[Terry]

Kara, I think Coldfire is awesome. One of my favorite reads and James, I ma with you there. As a matter of fact I'm about to go reread that series again.

[Mridupawan]

I admit, the books go downhill a bit... But doesnt all epic series does the same?? Even after book 5, wheel of time dissapoints. The point is to carry on if you are hooked. And quit after book 2 if you dont get the feel. Nevertheless, the last 4 books gets it back in the groove.

[Mridupawan]

Terry wrote: "Kara, I think Coldfire is awesome. One of my favorite reads and James, I ma with you there. As a matter of fact I'm about to go reread that series again."

Okay its called chainfire here.... :D

[Mike (the Paladin)]

We've been through this all before Freelancer and don't take my disappointment personally, we can disagree and still be friends.:)

My answer is no, all series don't do that. My huge disappointment with WoT is because it did start out so well. It was originally going to be a 7 book series, then 10 and so on. There is a noticeable change in it and after the fifth volume and a big change in the sixth which only gets worse as the series goes on. There are times when we get the same set of events described over and over again simply from different characters (I know, their points of view, but usually it has little or no actual effect on the story). The story became repetitive and terribly wandering. I've always thought one of two things happened. Either someone somewhere said, "hey, all these become best sellers, we need to stretch this thing out." Or the editing simply stopped and every extraneous thought and line that used to be blue penciled got into the text. There is one 800 page tome that covers 3 days, and some of the events in it had already been covered.

I think Wheel of Time could have been one of the great fantasy epics in the English language, had it not simply wandered off and started grazing. Now it's an overly long soap opera of a fantasy with a story the reader needs to sift for.

It really does make me sad and the reason I'm so critical is I can see what it could have been, what it was headed for being. I love the first 5 even 6 books, wasn't too upset by 7 but after that the stretching was so obvious it couldn't be missed.

As I said, could have been, might have been, for me very sad.

[Mridupawan]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "We've been through this all before Freelancer and don't take my disappointment personally, we can disagree and still be friends.:)

My answer is no, all series don't do that. My huge disappointment..."

I understand. Was just giving out my opinion. Am still a novice in the fantasy zone :)

[Chris]

Whereas, I love WoT and though I admit it did drag some in places towards the 8th through 10th books (but 9 was awesome), I think it rebounded quite well in the 11th through 13th.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

I know how you feel Mike. I never finished WoT just because it was so massive (and not finished!). I just knew I would get burned.

Mercedes Lackey does that sometimes and it really makes me PO'd. She did it with her Dragon Jousters series, turning what should have been a trilogy into a quartet (and the last 2 books felt very unfinished) and she's been doing it with her most recent Valdemar series, too. It's not the quite same as WoT but I do feel the annoyance.

[Mridupawan]

i read WoT even after 5th because i did want to know where the story ended. BUT book 11 and 12 made a big comeback i must say

[Dawn]

Chris wrote: "Whereas, I love WoT and though I admit it did drag some in places towards the 8th through 10th books (but 9 was awesome), I think it rebounded quite well in the 11th through 13th."

*agrees*

[Maggie]

I think WOT rebounded in the end, too. I loved the last two books...

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Yeah, but that has a lot to do with Sanderson. I've been really happy with the job he did.

[Kevin]

Chris wrote: "Whereas, I love WoT and though I admit it did drag some in places towards the 8th through 10th books (but 9 was awesome), I think it rebounded quite well in the 11th through 13th."

I never felt that the WoT books dragged myself. Maybe the fact that I read books 1-10 in 2 month period had something to do with it. (And it only took that long because I had to wait for a few to get back in the library.)

Still I agree that books 11-12 are among the best of the series. I felt book 13 was actually paced rather uneven, a bit to fast in places. Some plot threads got a rather abrupt ending i.m.o. Or maybe that's just because now I have to wait a year or more between books I actually have time to think about things I didn't like rather than to dive headfirst into the next one.

[Jason]

I keep wanting to return to the WoT books, but never do for some reason. I think it's intimidation. I'm at book 8 and fear the coming boredom. LOL. I am looking forward, though, to finishing the series with Sanderson at the reigns. I've heard great things!

[James]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I didn't step in as it's a matter of opinion. Some love the "entire series" others...don't. I'd say Wizard's First Rule is okay, but as the series goes on Goodkind is more involved in converting hi..."

I agree. He definitely gets way too preachy for me. Not only that, but I've never read a series that repeated itself as often as that one did. It's like he assumes you didn't read the previous books.

[Chris]

Jason, if you've made it into 8, you're probably good. The first 100 pages or so of that book were the worst, to me. The second half of it and all of 9 are pretty awesome. 10 isn't so much boring as it makes you scratch your head a bit.

Then 11 starts things moving again.

[Dawn]

I was never bored by WoT, even if it was slightly slower in the later books. That's just my opinion of course, but it just goes to show you that there are two sides to every coin. Read and judge for yourself, don't take everyone else's word for it.

[Weenie]

I re-read the first 8 WoT books and it wasn't too bad, it was like seeing old friends again! Now that the end is in sight (well, 3 more to go), I'm not sure that I want the series to end!

[carol. , Senor Crabbypants]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I think Wheel of Time could have been one of the great fantasy epics in the English language, had it not simply wandered off and started grazing."

lol, Mike! Perfect--and funny description. Like a fat milk cow. :D

[Mike (the Paladin)]

:)

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Completely random and not related to anything, but every damn time I see this thread pop up in my list I read " Ok so im making a list" and think to myself, "Yes, but are you checking it twice?"

Every. Single. Time.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I know, I have the same flash thought.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Gonna find out who's naughty or nice...

[Cheryl]

I think the list would weigh heavy on the naughty side for this group! :D

[whimsicalmeerkat]

All depends on how you define the word

[Jason]

Thanks, Colleen. Now I'm gonna have the same damn thing happen to me. LOL

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Jason wrote: "Thanks, Colleen. Now I'm gonna have the same damn thing happen to me. LOL"

Thus my purpose for sharing is realized!

[Jason]

*sigh*

And I was right...

lol

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Tracey wrote: "Now I'll probably see it too ... but I'll probably still twitch over "im"."

Me too...