The History Book Club discussion
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The Histories
ANCIENT HISTORY
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ARCHIVE - HERODOTUS - THE HISTORIES~~INTRODUCE YOURSELF HERE
I've heard of Fox River Grove, I think usually after a big rain, if you get my drift!
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Bentley
Welcome Kirsten! It's so wonderful to have different takes on these readings. Can't wait to hear your reactions.
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Folks, some of the new comers have to find their way around so I know that once they do, they will say hello. I want to make sure that the group is aware whenever a new person is added.
Bentley
Hi Ted. New Mexico is such a beautiful place. What town are you near?
Mod
You being from New Mexico are from a lovely spot especially when folks from the NE are shoveling snow - however right now the weather here is beautiful too. Fall is my favorite season.
Welcome though to you and your beautiful brown headed friend.
Bentley
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Welcome.
Bentley
How wonderful to have you Mohammed! You can really add a new perspective, living as you do in the heart of history. Welcome!
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Bentley
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Bentley
Hi Prune, I think we've "met" on B & N. Glad you found us.
Well, I see it is crowded in here, so I'll get the chance and introduce myself.My name is Ivonne, I'm colombian, 23, history student. journalist and empiric photographer. I live in Bogotá, speak spanish and english fluently and I'm currently learning greek (ancient too) and italian.
I'm on my first semester of history. I love history and I don't know what is that fascinates me so much about it, but I hold a deep love for it. I spend a lot of time reading or taking photographs, I think that documenting simple things in life will make something for this world and the ones who come after us. I love archives, books, maps... I'm a bookworm in few words.
Greetings everyone!
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Welcome.
Bentley
Welcome Ivonne!
How did you learn English so well? I'm thrilled that we have someone who might be able to translate from the original Greek. We've had some questions arise already.
We're all here for the love of history so you're in the right place!
How did you learn English so well? I'm thrilled that we have someone who might be able to translate from the original Greek. We've had some questions arise already.
We're all here for the love of history so you're in the right place!
Mod
This is the thread to introduce yourself and say hello to everyone. There are still a few of you who have joined who have not yet said hello and of course we would love to welcome you to the group. Please tell us a little bit about yourself; whatever you would like to share; one idea might be to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about some of the great books you have read recently or what aside from Herodotus you are reading now? Maybe there are some books you want to recommend and/or some others that maybe we should pass on.
We welcome all who have joined and we are very friendly so just get up your courage and say hello. Know that all of us are very happy that you are part of the group. Veterans please also feel free to jump in and talk about your favorite non fiction books too and why you found them worthwhile and would recommend them.
I have also been enjoying this one:
Bentley
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Welcome to the group, Miriam.
Bentley
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Welcome.
Bentley
Welcome Antoine! So glad you found us. Tell us all about yourself and life in that beautiful country!!!!
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We have had quite a few new folks in the last couple of weeks and maybe they are just finding their way around; but please if you are new; please just pop in here and say hello to the group. It is one of the few prerequisites we have since we are a small private group; we want everybody to feel comfortable.
We have also an off topic cafe where conversation can take place on a variety of topics so that is a place to go to break the ice and get to know the folks on the board in addition to the on going discussion threads.
We are very friendly and very respectful of everyone's viewpoint and postings and just want to hear from those who have not posted.
If you have any questions for me or for Oldesq, please make sure to reach out to us.
Bentley.
Welcome Miriam. Glad you've found us.
Is Mohammed still here? I'd love to hear his take on Egypt.
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Bentley
Dear all, I am extremely sorry for this delay but I am sure you will understand ,as Bentley had informed you earlier, I am a Software architect, and you know how things are going in such industry, I was unbelievably busy during the previous period that I barely had time to check my mail. But now I finally delivered the task I had in hand and I'll finally be free till the end of the week!Born in Alexandria on the shores of the Mediterranean 29 years ago to 2 middle class Egyptian Muslim monolingual parents who were keen to introduce their children to different cultures. At the age of 6 i joined "College Saint Marc" a school run by catholic French priests where French was my first study Language for 13 years. During those years , I had the chance to encounter people from different backgrounds, nationalities ,religions, ethnic group and classes and to witness the last evidences of the last cosmopolitan era of my beloved Alexandria.
During the school years, I used to be an avid reader with special interest in Social sciences, History and Geography, however being enrolled in a "less developed" education system I was unable to specify what I really want to study at this relatively young age, not to mention that ,in a country like Egypt, a degree in literature ,fine art or social sciences is not the type of education that that would guarantee financially secure career as being an Engineer, and that late was my choice.
For the past dozen of years, I was studying and then perusing a career in the field of the S/W engineering and moved to Cairo, "al kahira" in Arabic that may be translated to "the compelling city" .For all those past years I was always buried under a small mountain of tasks, spending sleepless nights at my imperial multinational employer's office but managed miraculously to find some free time to learn Spanish and carry on reading.
After all those years I really feel burned out and seriously concerning switching career. It was only a few years ago when I reach a level of maturity and knowledge to know which field of science I like the most , Ethnology .
Being into ethnology means being into History, Social science ,Geography ,music, customs ,linguistics ,literature ,Cinema and many other interests, and this is typically me!
In addition to all of the above ,living in a country like Egypt means encountering and living with history on every small detail of your daily life ,counting myself an individual who holds the Egyptian ,Arabic ,Muslim, African and mediterranean culture and heritage under skin my primary area of interest is the history of that part that lies between Mali and Uzbakistan , however I have special interest of the history of Medieval Europe and pre Colombian South America(actually I am in love with this continent!) but this does not mean that I am not eager to read constantly about other areas and époques.
Speaking about Herodotus ,he is one of the first named I learned about since I was in the 2nd or 3rd grad as school, apart from being called "the father of history" , he was the coz of an ever lasting debate due to his quote "Egypt is the gift of the Nile" ,an phrase that is always counter-argued with another famous quote "Egypt is the gift of the Egyptians".
I know it had been a long take , but this is a sort of apologizing for being that late introducing myself, thanks for your time reading this, and I assure you I am already enjoying those fruitful conversation on the forum.
Abdou
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I trust and hope that I am using your correct name when saying hello. In other words, should I say hello Abdou or hello Mohamed. I am sure that our group wants to be sure to know what you prefer.
We are of course glad to hear from you now and especially because we are reading Herodotus; but of course that is not the only reason, Egypt has a great deal of interest for all of us in the group. Your parents sound like they are wonderful people who were keen on your being able to assimilate with many different cultures and we are delighted to have you as part of our group. You have given us a wonderful introduction which will allow all of us to share and get to know you; and you the group. It is very interesting that you went to College Saint Marc (that must have been extremely fascinating for you). I bet you also speak French fluently.
I can see that you thought long and hard about your career choice and made it carefully. I never knew that Cairo meant compelling city (al kahira). Thank you for that very interesting detail.
I found with interest the choice of the word imperial to describe your employers' office; in what sense did you mean that choice (did you mean that it was overbearing?). I love your quote: Egypt is the gift of the Egyptians.
We are very glad to have you here; jump into the Herodotus conversation depending upon whatever section you happen to be reading, also take part in any of the supplemental conversations or other books dealing with Herodotus in some way or feel free to stop in to chat with us in the Off Topic Cafe (here we can discuss music, art, culture and customs, movie, current events, global discussions, etc. - whatever interests you)
If there is anything that we can do to help you get started, please do not hesitate to reach out to either me or to Oldesq.
Thank you for your most thoughtful introduction.
Bentley
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I am just thrilled to hear from you. I am so curious about your opinions about Herodotus, and especially Book II about Egypt. I was wondering how the history was taught in Egypt as it is so ancient and reaches so far back, before Islam. Are the early times revered? Or are they seen differently? Of course going to a Catholic school you must have gotten a different perspective. It's amazing to think that you were born in Alexandria. Although I know all of these places are real, there's a bit of the fairy tale in my mind when I think of them. You can provide us with some first-hand knowledge so don't worry about saying too much!
I am just thrilled to hear from you. I am so curious about your opinions about Herodotus, and especially Book II about Egypt. I was wondering how the history was taught in Egypt as it is so ancient and reaches so far back, before Islam. Are the early times revered? Or are they seen differently? Of course going to a Catholic school you must have gotten a different perspective. It's amazing to think that you were born in Alexandria. Although I know all of these places are real, there's a bit of the fairy tale in my mind when I think of them. You can provide us with some first-hand knowledge so don't worry about saying too much!
Hello all,
Fisrt of all I am really enchanted of this warm welcoming and nice words, I just love to highlight that Abdou is the name i used to be called by friends,so please feel free to use it
It's a pity I never had the chance to complete "The book of Egypt" so I am afraid I might not be the right reference ,however I will try to contribute and to add value whenever I will be.
And answering Bently, actually I am grateful to my parents for what they did do! and yes, French was my second language, pity I rarely use it recently and I started to lose the "sense" of the language And speaking about "imperial" word ,well it was just a joke , I already knew that most of the members here are Americans and l loved to do a sort of "friendly teasing" and I hope you do not find it offensive
Now comes to Vanessa ,the Egyptian educational system and specially the History subject will lead to a bitter long discussion ,we could do this in the general chat forum, I promise I could give you comprehensive answers to all your questions ,so please start shooting !
Regards!
Mod
You have answered a great deal. That is so terrific that you will answer our questions in the Off Topic Cafe; I am sure there will be many interesting discussions. Vanessa, if you want to move the discussion to the Off Topic Cafe; I think you and Abdou can start a very interesting conversation and all of us will learn a great deal.
We won't have any shooting (lol) but we will start (and here is another idiomatic phrase) ..throwing the questions your way.
(smile)
Thanks Abdou.
Bentley
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Later,
Then I am curtailing the conversation because I am busy and don't have time to talk or write at the present moment but will get back, or it could be just another way to say goodbye or I will be talking to you some time soon and will get back when I have time. You hear a lot of young people using that slang expression and so many others. We can also talk about that in the Off Topic Cafe.
Bentley
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Thank you for sharing that quote "Egypt is the gift of the Egyptians". I've thought a lot about it and shared it with different people. It makes sense. There are many people in lush, abundant lands that did not create great civilizations. Sometimes we get subtle messages that denigrate other cultures and we're not even aware of it. So I appreciate, greatly, hearing your POV.
Thank you for sharing that quote "Egypt is the gift of the Egyptians". I've thought a lot about it and shared it with different people. It makes sense. There are many people in lush, abundant lands that did not create great civilizations. Sometimes we get subtle messages that denigrate other cultures and we're not even aware of it. So I appreciate, greatly, hearing your POV.
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We'd love to hear anything you might want to share about anything you read in Herodotus. Don't worry about your English, it's fine. I married a Frenchman and have always found the "accent" charming.
I bet you speak several languages. Where in Switzerland do you live? My mother-in-law lived there during the war and so fell in love with it that she sent her children there for camp during the summers. I was last there in l972. It was incredible but I had a hard time breathing at l0,000 feet! We stayed in Brig.
We'd love to hear anything you might want to share about anything you read in Herodotus. Don't worry about your English, it's fine. I married a Frenchman and have always found the "accent" charming.
I bet you speak several languages. Where in Switzerland do you live? My mother-in-law lived there during the war and so fell in love with it that she sent her children there for camp during the summers. I was last there in l972. It was incredible but I had a hard time breathing at l0,000 feet! We stayed in Brig.
Mod
I will be away a great deal this weekend from the board as I have some other obligations but tried to pop in now and was delighted to see that you posted your intro. Do not be deterred in any way; your English is fine. You will fit right in since there are a fair amount of legal eagles here. It is not to late to catch up on Herodotus at all; we will be reading it for quite a while longer so you have plenty of time. And of course we are delighted to have you read Churchill with us.
We are also looking forward to getting to know you better too; also stop into the Off Topic Cafe where there are always a variety of conversations taking place on art, music, current events, and other worldly topics. Glad to have you here.
Bentley
Hello, All.Just a quick note of introduction, partially to see if my ancient Mac and its antiquated Netscape Navigator will hold this connection long enough to allow a posting...
I am interested in a broad variety of historical periods but tend to focus on the U.S. Civil War; the Victorian expansion through World War I; historiography and epistemology; and just about anything that deals with ancient history. Unfortunately, most of the college level history courses I took are some 25 years in my past, so a lot of the material I once thought I knew has no doubt been superseded or "revised" out of existence...
I've got two weeks on the road coming up just now, but I'll have plenty of motel time to read Herodotus and several of the secondary works -- so I should be able to get some bits ready for quick posting as soon as I find a computer connection.
Be seeing you soon!
Prunesquallor
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Good to see you Prunesquallor! You have to explain that name!
Looks like your ancient mac will do its job and take you into ancient history with us. We're all learning here, I've never studied ancient history at all. Just starting to pursue the interest with some adult education courses, so you're way ahead of me.
H is an amazing guide into the past.
Good to see you Prunesquallor! You have to explain that name!
Looks like your ancient mac will do its job and take you into ancient history with us. We're all learning here, I've never studied ancient history at all. Just starting to pursue the interest with some adult education courses, so you're way ahead of me.
H is an amazing guide into the past.
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Look forward to hearing from you.
Bentley
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Bentley
Hi Sid! Glad to have you here.
Where are you from?
Where are you from?
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Bentley
Thank you for the welcome. After reading the intros of others here, I must admit I feel a little intimidated. I am afraid I may end up gaining much more from this group than I give.I am currently living in SouthWest Connecticut and commute into Manhattan everyday. It takes about 1 hour and 50 minutes to get to work - so that is where I do most of my reading (when I don't fall asleep). I work for Citigroup, managing a lot of the technology for the equity trading floor (getting more hesitant these days to tell people what I do, as many people are blaming all of wall street for the end of the world we are witnessing). My career doesn't have anything to do with my education (not too unusual I think) -I majored in Asian History, with minors in Korean and Mandarin Chinese. I did get an MBA at Columbia, so it does all connect if you squint your eyes a little. A long long time ago (1985-1987) I was a missionary in South Korea, and also was an English teacher there in 1989. (I am now 43). Altogether living in Korea for 3 1/2 years. In addition to learning the Korean language and gaining a personal understanding of the culture, I also gained a wife and some in-laws while I was in Korea. We have three children - 19, 12, and 5. The oldest is following in my footsteps and is currently serving as a missionary in Poland. Oh yes, I am here because I love reading and learning history. In fact, I can't bear to read fiction as it leaves me with a feeling that I am just wasting my time. Real history has the best stories - why do we need to make it up? Having spent much time in asian history, I am now trying to catch up on European history - of which I seem to know so little about.
That is probably enough about me - nice to meet you all, and look forward to learning a lot about you and from you.
Sid
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What an interesting life you have had! Don't worry about being blamed for the financial mess, I blame congress. LOL!
My area of Chicago heavily Asian and my kids grew up (I still have one) with many Korean friends so I'm pretty familiar with the culture. Right now my youngest (age l7) is studying Chinese at school, as well as French and all of the required courses. She was in Japan this summer as Japan is her passion but she has so many chinese friends that they've taughter her a lot of Chinese so she wanted to get some credit for it!
I love what you said about fiction. I just don't understand why people read it either. I had a good friend who when we would meet would say "What are you reading now?" I'd answer something like "Tom Paine's Common Sense" and she'd burst out laughing. I finally asked her why that was so funny and she said she'd fall asleep if she tried to read non-fiction. I feel the exact opposite way. Shocking, isn't it, that people would prefer to read things that are not true? Welcome to our group, you've found the right place and I really think that MOST of what Herodotus says is based on truth.
What an interesting life you have had! Don't worry about being blamed for the financial mess, I blame congress. LOL!
My area of Chicago heavily Asian and my kids grew up (I still have one) with many Korean friends so I'm pretty familiar with the culture. Right now my youngest (age l7) is studying Chinese at school, as well as French and all of the required courses. She was in Japan this summer as Japan is her passion but she has so many chinese friends that they've taughter her a lot of Chinese so she wanted to get some credit for it!
I love what you said about fiction. I just don't understand why people read it either. I had a good friend who when we would meet would say "What are you reading now?" I'd answer something like "Tom Paine's Common Sense" and she'd burst out laughing. I finally asked her why that was so funny and she said she'd fall asleep if she tried to read non-fiction. I feel the exact opposite way. Shocking, isn't it, that people would prefer to read things that are not true? Welcome to our group, you've found the right place and I really think that MOST of what Herodotus says is based on truth.
Mod
Welcome Sid, do not be intimidated in any way; we are learning about these books as we read them for the first time. You will be in the same boat as we are. My niece is Korean; and I travel a fair amount to Asia so I understand your interest in that part of the world.
Your background is fascinating and what is interesting is your career with that background (smile). We do not hold the current debacle against you; there are many many others who are way ahead of you on that score.
I am one of those folks who likes history; but then likes to dig into a good thriller or two; so I appreciate both. But you are in the right place if you like history. And we are glad to have you with us.
Bentley
Fiction is creativity: imagination, spinning a good story that one can escape to. Fiction authors who write regional stories expose their readers to true descriptions of their area, so one can learn about other areas in this country and in the world too.
We all have our own tastes; to each our own.
Well, my purpose wasn't to disparage fiction for all. My intent was - by way of self introduction - to reveal a neuroses of mine: that when I read fiction I actually feel anxious that I am wasting my time, or that I am picking up things that are not true. And so by reading non-fiction history books, I not only feel excitement as we all do, but I feel comforted that I am improving myself. But this is my issue to deal with. thanks again for the warm welcome.
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Virginia, please accept my apology. I was being a little tongue-in-cheek about fiction. In fact I joined the Great Books program, in part, to force myself to read literature. Of course it's been very rewarding! And, my non-fiction reading includes my weekly People magazine so I have no right to look down on anyone else's reading matter!
Virginia, please accept my apology. I was being a little tongue-in-cheek about fiction. In fact I joined the Great Books program, in part, to force myself to read literature. Of course it's been very rewarding! And, my non-fiction reading includes my weekly People magazine so I have no right to look down on anyone else's reading matter!
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Sid, I have the same neurosis. Especially when it comes to historical fiction. I'm afraid I'm learning something that isn't true. Most people that I know seem to prefer fiction so it's comforting to find others who share my neurotic sensibilities.
Sid, I have the same neurosis. Especially when it comes to historical fiction. I'm afraid I'm learning something that isn't true. Most people that I know seem to prefer fiction so it's comforting to find others who share my neurotic sensibilities.
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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Oct 08, 2008 09:25AM)
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Mod
A long time ago I read a book by Vance Packard called Hidden Persuaders and the thesis of that book is that all around us in stores and in all of our books and reading materials and in what we watch and hear there are folks trying to persuade us that the way they are telling us a story or what they say is the absolute truth. I saw this in living color last night in the debate which was probably one of the most boring debates that I have ever watched (talk about packaging their answers). So having said that, whenever I read a non fiction book; I am looking for those clues about what the author wants us to believe or what his theories are; I know that I do not have to adopt anybodies views as my own and I have the ability to distill what I have read and make my own decisions. That is why I can also read fiction the same way and enjoy it; I don't buy what someone says because it is a book of non fiction any more than I buy what a James Patterson or a Donna Leon has to say about their protagonist and the events of the current yarn.
I love both Virginia just like you and there is a place for everything and Sid we are thrilled to have you here. I love History too and feel that we can all learn so much from what our predecessors relate occurred and why. I always hope that we can learn from history; in some cases I guess the world has and in some other instances I guess we haven't. But reading history can certainly give us a different perspective or slant than we had before.
And Vanessa and Sid, I had to laugh at what you consider neurotic sensibilities (I would just call them your reading what you like).
Bentley
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Good point Bentley! I find that the older I get the more I become a primary source for my kids. It amazes me how what they've been taught about the 50's, 60's 70's is so different from my memory of it. That's why I particularly enjoy watching old Jack Paar or Dick Cavett shows. The past looks different to me as well!
I don't know if anyone has seen Across the Universe. I really, really loved it as the 60's were "my time". Julie Taymor put the Beatles songs together to form a story. She re-created the time so well! But it was like watching it through my eyes, now. Not as it looked then. It was quite a feat! On the extra disc she explained how dance moves have changed over the past 40 years and our eyes would not accept the same moves in the same way if she'd re=created them exactly. So they had to take the old dances and incorporate modern moves so that we would interpret them correctly. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, but the point is that even when we've lived through the time, time changes our perception of it.
Good point Bentley! I find that the older I get the more I become a primary source for my kids. It amazes me how what they've been taught about the 50's, 60's 70's is so different from my memory of it. That's why I particularly enjoy watching old Jack Paar or Dick Cavett shows. The past looks different to me as well!
I don't know if anyone has seen Across the Universe. I really, really loved it as the 60's were "my time". Julie Taymor put the Beatles songs together to form a story. She re-created the time so well! But it was like watching it through my eyes, now. Not as it looked then. It was quite a feat! On the extra disc she explained how dance moves have changed over the past 40 years and our eyes would not accept the same moves in the same way if she'd re=created them exactly. So they had to take the old dances and incorporate modern moves so that we would interpret them correctly. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, but the point is that even when we've lived through the time, time changes our perception of it.
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I bought it but I'm sure it's on netflix. It came out last year, I think.
I bought it but I'm sure it's on netflix. It came out last year, I think.
Mod
Bentley
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Road (other topics)The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle (other topics)
The Hidden Persuaders (other topics)
Jennie: The Life of the American Beauty Who Became the Toast—and Scandal—of Two Continents, Ruled an Age and Raised a Son—Winston Churchill—Who Shaped History (other topics)
Plymouth is a great place for a history buff! I've always wanted to spend Thanksgiving there one year.
Please let us know your take on everything you read, we need all the help we can get!!!