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Reading List > Freedom: A Novel by Jonathan Franzen

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message 1: by Barbara (last edited Apr 24, 2011 12:31PM) (new)

Barbara | 6308 comments We are officially starting the discussing of Freedom by Jonathan Franzen tomorrow, but I’m posting the opening note tonight to make sure everyone can talk as soon as possible. Though Franzen has been a familiar name in the book media, such as it is, and even had his picture on the cover of Time Magazine, I’m always interested in the details I might have missed. So, here is some short biographical information from About.com:

Jonathan Franzen was born in a suburb of Chicago and raised in Webster Groves, Missouri, a suburb of St. Louis. He graduated from Swarthmore College in 1981 and studied thereafter at the Freie Universität in Berlin on a Fulbright scholarship.

Jonathan Franzen's recent novels have been hailed as literary masterpieces. Both The Corrections and Freedom are sprawling, realist novels about the deterioration of the family in suburban, middle class America, as was his 1988 debut novel, The Twenty-Seventh City.
When The Corrections, Franzen's third novel, was selected for Oprah Winfrey's book club in 2001, Franzen's response was famously unenthusiastic, essentially declining the Oprah nod. Much media attention followed Oprah's retraction of her invitation for Franzen to appear on the show, from which The Corrections quickly benefitted, becoming one of decade's best selling literary novels. The Corrections won both the 2001 National Book Award for Fiction and the 2002 James Tait Black Memorial Prize for fiction.
In 2002, Franzen published a collections of essays, How to Be Alone, and in 2006, a memoir titled The Discomfort Zone. Freedom (2010) is his fourth and most recent novel.
Jonathan Franzen's Books:
• The Twenty-Seventh City (1988)
• Strong Motion (1992)
• The Corrections (2001)
• How to Be Alone (2002)
• The Discomfort Zone (2006)
• Freedom (2010)


There is also a great interview with Franzen at the following link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/bo...


message 2: by Barbara (new)

Barbara | 6308 comments Please know that there will be lots of SPOILERS in this note and the rest of the discussion.


I just finished this novel last night. Initially, I was purposely reading slowly because I wanted to finish it just before our discussion. That plan worked. However, as I moved on, I had a hard time making progress because I cared about these characters so much. I actually wish I had known that everyone would be okay in the end. I probably would have enjoyed the experience much more.
Throughout the reading, I kept thinking that this is absolutely the closest thing to a modern version of a Dickens novel that I have ever read. It is sprawling. It takes on almost every issue in middle class American lives. I worried about the safety of these people as much as I worried about Dickens’ characters, but I understood more about them. And, everything was resolved by a relatively happy ending, just as I can always count on from Dickens.

What did you all think of the structure of the novel? I originally read the first section, “Good Neighbors” as a short story in the New Yorker. It’s interesting to me in that it encompasses so much, but on a surface level, from an outsider's point of view. The following chapters look at those same events more in depth but only from Patty’s point of view. So, we're still missing essential information. Each new chapter brought new clues as each person perceived them or even discovered them in themselves. It had an almost circular feel.


message 3: by Diana (new)

Diana | 48 comments Hello!
I am not done with the book yet, but I agree with certain points and I feel that this book offers a panorama of social stereotypes. I mean, that you find either yourself in this book or someone you definitely know... and Patty's character alone is enough for a woman(I think) to identify..
At first, I liked her story... but as it went on, I kind of understood her, but kind of wished she had been a stronger character... but maybe in the end she'll be... :)


message 4: by Marialyce (new)

Marialyce I loved the Franzen made this family so alive and vital. As Diana said you do see yourself or someone you know within the pages. He made each of his characters full of the choices that life has to offer every one. I so enjoyed his writing and way in which we came to know all the characters for what they really were, flawed but special in so many ways.


message 5: by Carol (new)

Carol | 7176 comments All I will say is I didn't hate it, but neither did I love it. I think Franzen had every political banner out there, in this book. He must be on every band wagon.


toria (vikz writes) (VictoriaVikzwrites) I don't know why. But, I am really having trouble getting into this book


message 7: by Ruth (last edited Apr 15, 2011 05:44PM) (new)

Ruth | 9579 comments I 3/4 loved this book. I just fell into the explorations of character and situations that form character and found it all fascinating, every little detail.

Then suddenly it was all enough, enough, ENOUGH! I felt as if we'd been spinning our wheels in the same ditch for way too long and I couldn't wait for the tractor to come and pull us out. But when it did, I felt let down. It was all just too neat and tidy. A massive buildup to a very small poof! and a sigh.


message 8: by Carol (new)

Carol | 7176 comments Yea Ruth that sounds about my take also, except I was about half way through before I was like enough already.


message 9: by Yulia (new)

Yulia | 1642 comments I absolutely loved the section on Patty's autobiography. It was hilarious. And I agreed with the politics, so much so that I found myself getting as angry as Walter did about the issues (which made me hope to finish the book as soon as possible, because I don't like being a grump to others because of what I'm reading). But two great flaws I felt were that I never bought into Richard's obsession with Patty and I never saw Lalitha as a three-dimensional character. She was too efficient, too principled, too patient, too loving. By the end, it was as if she'd only been a dream for Walter and a nightmare for Patty.


message 10: by Cathy (new)

Cathy | 317 comments Yulia wrote: "I absolutely loved the section on Patty's autobiography. It was hilarious. And I agreed with the politics, so much so that I found myself getting as angry as Walter did about the issues (which ma..."

I, too, found Lalitha character unconvincing and her attraction to Walter puzzling. Her death really pulled me into the book; Up until then I was only luke-warm about the characters.


message 11: by Al (new)

Al (AllysonSmith) | 1101 comments I also really enjoyed the beginning of the book. But then I thought the politics became too much and the storyline got ridiculous. Franzen does create memorable characters. Also, I had already read his earlier novel, The Corrections, which I felt did a better job with the politics and satire, without becoming quite as over-the-top.


message 12: by Al (new)

Al (AllysonSmith) | 1101 comments Yulia: I think Richard's interest in Patty was solely about a connection to Walter, in a literal sense, Patty was just a tool.

Cathy and Yulia: I also felt Lathia was not a very believable character, although by that point in the novel for me, reality was pretty far gone.


message 13: by Michael (new)

Michael (MichaelCanoeist) I'm intrigued by the comments about the politics. Do those mentioning it believe, then, that Franzen's politics are roughly the same as Walter's? I whipped through this book and then went on to read The Corrections, too. It was like eating potato chips -- it was almost impossible to stop. Although I found the subplots in The Corrections more tedious than the Joey story in Freedom. I really enjoyed it, and I felt it was all satirical. I'm not sure what Franzen believes, and don't really want to know because I am afraid he might be close to Walter (those silly chapter titles, basically). I do think an Evelyn Waugh would have made more humor out of Walter's career, but I thought it was pretty funny even without that more acerbic touch. Overall, I felt this was great satire in that it respected every major character enough to give him or her his due. I marvelled at the density of the characterization and motivation. Each paragraph seemed packed with believable information, analysis, or commentary on the character in focus at that moment to push the story forwards. I also gave Franzen credit for having a happy ending. Unlike Ruth, I felt it built pretty well to the conclusion and I could not turn the pages fast enough.


message 14: by Carol (new)

Carol | 7176 comments Micheal that was what I thought . I don't know the man's politics but I would not be surprised.
Yulia I felt that Richard was jealous of anything that Walter had. From the time they were young Walter seemed to Richard to have a stable life. I guess it is the old story the grass always looks greener in the other field.


message 15: by Yulia (last edited Apr 18, 2011 03:02PM) (new)

Yulia | 1642 comments Al and Kitty, yes, I agree it was about Richard's trying to take what Walter had in order to achieve a connection to him and I do know how this kind of emotional/sexual transference happens in reality, but I suppose i'd thought enough about the issue in past years before ever reading this novel, when I got to it in the novel, which I expected from the beginning of the description of Richard and Walter's friendship, I was disappointed and thought, oh, that's all? But i admit this isn't being quite fair to Franzen for what he pulled off in this narrative.

As for politics, I've never read more than a few pages of Franzen's essays, published in The New Yorker and then in two separate books, but I do know without doubt that he is an avid bird-watcher and that he was opposed to the Iraq war.

This raises the issue then, was Franzen successful in portraying the ethical challenges faced by his characters or did they become so extreme, as stated earlier, that they came off as mere satire of the very beliefs he espouses? I think Franzen's message can sometimes be obscured to the reader by his frustration with the issues he's trying to capture and perhaps with the left's unsuccessful attempts at getting out its message, so that one can read this book either way, as a liberal's frustration with liberal political effectiveness (as I saw it) or as a conservative's mocking liberal causes (which others may have). And he himself becomes an example of the left shooting itself in the foot, as it were.


message 16: by Carol (new)

Carol | 7176 comments Yulia said: This raises the issue then, was Franzen successful in portraying the ethical challenges faced by his characters or did they become so extreme, as stated earlier, that they came off as mere satire of the very beliefs he espouses?



I think Yulia that is what turned the book into an ok book for me.


message 17: by Jane (new)

Jane | 2074 comments I want to talk a little more about Patty. I admired that she did what she set out to do and that was to be a stay-at-home mother. She wanted to be the best mother she could be and then she ruined everything by spoiling Joey and ignoring her daughter because she was supposedly self-sufficient. Later she admitted that she is really good with small children but not so good with older children. After awhile I got tired of her whining. If she felt so unfulfilled after the children were grown, why didn't she train for a new career? She could have been a preschool or elementary school teacher. I wanted to yell, "Quit complaining and do something!" Am I the only one who got tired of her?


message 18: by Carol (new)

Carol | 7176 comments She definitely was on the pity party train. I was tired reading about everyone by the end of the book. Franzen didn't in my opinion know how to write about a woman. He used all the pat stereotypes as far as I was concerned.


message 19: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 9579 comments I got a little fed up with her, too, Jane.


message 20: by Al (new)

Al (AllysonSmith) | 1101 comments Patty made me crazy, especially the interaction with her siblings. What was the point of all that?
I thought her basketball career was pretty interesting though.


message 21: by Carol (new)

Carol | 7176 comments I am not saying this runs true, but do you think a few high school and college athletes have difficulty with their lives after leaving school and are no longer in the spotlight? If so why do you think that is?


message 22: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 9579 comments It seems to me that often the golden kids of high school, athletes or otherwise, peak too early. And spend the rest of their lives trying to relive their high school years and failing.


message 23: by Al (new)

Al (AllysonSmith) | 1101 comments I agree with Ruth. I had an English teacher in high school who always warned against peaking too early in life.

I think what I found so interesting about her basketball career was how different it was from her grown-up self


message 24: by Yulia (new)

Yulia | 1642 comments Hm, as someone who peaked early by conventional standards, I can attest to the fact some do learn to reprioritize and are the better for it(!). Early goals needn't be one's life goals. Patty's inability to develop speaks mainly of her own stubborn frustration with not simply getting what she wants.


message 25: by Carol (new)

Carol | 7176 comments I think as humans we are ever evolving our personalities to fit our environment of the moment. If you peak too early does that mean you have an arrested development? I hope I am not being annoying. I really want to know what others take on this is.


message 26: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 9579 comments Yulia wrote: "Hm, as someone who peaked early by conventional standards, I can attest to the fact some do learn to reprioritize and are the better for it(!). Early goals needn't be one's life goals.

Absolutely, Yulia. And it doesn't surprise me that you were able to do this.

I'm not sure that Patty did, though.


message 27: by Diana (new)

Diana | 48 comments I saw Patty in a different light than that of a golden child... I saw her as the child that grew up in the shadows of her sisters and that her relationship to her family was the reason for certain of her wishes.. Her mother's behaviour being the wish of her being the best mom she could be, her mother's wish to have a bright career being the reason to kind of refuse feminism at all...
I think that her childhood and her idealistic wishes of her perfect family trigger the inner battles of Patty Berglund...


message 28: by Al (new)

Al (AllysonSmith) | 1101 comments Yes, Diana, certainly her childhood and family relationships are key. I only mentioned that I thought her basketball career was interesting, it was not the obvious choice at all.


message 29: by Jane (new)

Jane | 2074 comments Diana wrote: "I saw Patty in a different light than that of a golden child... I saw her as the child that grew up in the shadows of her sisters and that her relationship to her family was the reason for certain ..."

I agree with you, Diana. Patty was good at basketball, and she wasn't good at the arts as her sisters were. So she concentrated on being the best in her family at basketball even though no one in the family supported her. Her parents certainly got the "payback" when their children were older. The siblings refused to work and wanted the parents to support them. Patty was lucky in that Walter was supporting her or she might have been holding her hand out along with her siblings.


message 30: by Diana (new)

Diana | 48 comments Al wrote: "Yes, Diana, certainly her childhood and family relationships are key. I only mentioned that I thought her basketball career was interesting, it was not the obvious choice at all."

Well, your point of view just shows in how many ways we all perceive this book :) I always am obsessed with the traits and faults of the characters and I always overanalyze them and I was waiting for a cueline to jump in into the discussion :)


message 31: by Al (new)

Al (AllysonSmith) | 1101 comments Diana: so glad you jumped in!


message 32: by Michael (new)

Michael (MichaelCanoeist) Patty was definitely the most interesting character to me, too. And I can't say I fully understood her; maybe Kitty is right, that Franzen didn't fully get the female character. My wife's reaction was like Jane's -- her problem was that she had nothing to do with herself, she needed a job.

I had a little trouble with Franzen's basic proposition for her character -- that only sex with Richard was satisfying enough for her. And that sex with her husband was utterly boring. There is something of the male-fantasy in that kind of severe partition, it seems to me; just as Lalitha was nothing but a male fantasy. Did any women readers find that psychology questionable? I'd be interested in hearing. But it didn't ruin the book for me, and I continued to be intrigued by and interested in Patty.

Yulia, the question on ethics is a good one. I know the Joey story ended up resolving on his supposed ethical dilemma. But I never believed there was any real dilemma to it. The American military would no more have used his rusting junk for anything than they would have made him commander-in-chief. So it didn't really matter whether he delivered the stuff he supposedly found on the internet or not. It was a "dilemma" without any reality, for me, like the whole procurement piece of plot itself; and the Joey story in general seemed unnecessary, despite its moments of humor. His relationship with his girlfriend was interesting, because Franzen is so good at these personal connections and conflicts.


message 33: by Michael (new)

Michael (MichaelCanoeist) The word that keeps standing out (to me, at least) in your opening post, Barbara, is "suburb." Franzen was born in one suburb; he grew up in another one; and he went to college in yet a third. And this book is about upper-middle-class suburbanites. He sure knows the world well. I really laughed (and groaned) at Patty's family, who struck me as very recognizable and accurate types. The drawback to it is that it is a somewhat narrow world, in the final analysis. Franzen sure can have fun with it, though.


message 34: by Yulia (new)

Yulia | 1642 comments Michael wrote: "The word that keeps standing out (to me, at least) in your opening post, Barbara, is "suburb." Franzen was born in one suburb; he grew up in another one; and he went to college in yet a third. An..."

In retrospect (I read the book when it first came out), I see how the ethical crisis faced by the son was moot, but to me the issue wasn't abut endangering soldiers; it was about getting so much money for garbage, cash for trash as our government is now known to doling out. is it ethical to legally bilk the system, to take the government's money for nothing? This is a situation he easily resolves by donating it, but he gets credit for recognizing it as a dilemma at all. How many corporations and CEOs get tax breaks, seeming hand-outs, without any sense of needing to meet the moral obligations of being a citizen and beneficiary of the government?

Walter's ethical dilemma is more intriguing and painful. At what cost do we save the harmless victims of human greed and consumption? Can we be both the good guys and the bad guys at once, or does the bad negate any good we may hope for? Is the good too distant and intangible to be real, while the bad too pressing a menace? Is the answer to work within the system to change it or to work outside it, unblemished by it? What defines us: the good we hope to accomplish or the bad we set into motion? Does the end justify the means if the end may be no more than a pipe dream?

In the end, though, I found it beautiful how Franzen made a small bird immortal in this book. It will probably go extinct sooner rather than later, but it's kept alive or at least given a lovely memorial through this book. I don't remember the son's name offhand but it takes me no effort to remember the cerulean warbler.


message 35: by Yulia (new)

Yulia | 1642 comments P.S. It shows you how far left I am that I regarded the New republic as conservative. Hm . . . I suppose it's all relative.

P.P.S. As for sexual stereotypes, Michael, I'd say whatever illusions some men may hold about women, some women may hold about men. The prevalence may vary, but the possibility still remains.


message 36: by Jane (new)

Jane | 2074 comments Yulia said: I never saw Lalitha as a three-dimensional character.

I think that we saw Lalitha through Walter's eyes, and since he was in love with her, we didn't see any defects. There were a couple of times that I thought Lalitha was going to soon get tired of Walter's inability to work with the local people. I think she was too ambitious to put up with him for long.

Yulia, I like the way that you posed Walter's ethical dilemma. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I was wondering how much of this type of thing goes on in environmental groups. Do they give up something in order to save something else? It does make a person cynical.


message 37: by Michael (new)

Michael (MichaelCanoeist) Jane, don't we always give up something in order to make anything else happen?

But also -- didn't the satirist in Franzen have to add the fact that this particular warbler was not, after all, endangered? That he had a "cousin" that was really the same species, and not threatened? That's what I remember, could be wrong.

Whatever Franzen's politics might be, I think his need to get his artistic (but also, as it happens, satiric) view of humanity as clear as possible means that he can't limit himself to making political points. The artist in him undermines the partisan.

As far as the bird-watching goes -- it fit Walter, who was always trying to do the right thing but somehow ending up with the short end of the stick anyway. Bird-watching is a perfect refuge from social disappointment, isn't it? I really sympathized with his withdrawal into the country near the end. Bird-watching is an activity in which the human presence is not desired, in any way. It fit Walter, and it fits Franzen, too, if the satirical thrust of this (and The Corrections) means anything. He renders the foolishness, vanity, and absurdist aspects of human life too, too clearly. It's funny, but it's a little painful, too. That's a big part of why I appreciated the happy ending to Freedom.


message 38: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 9579 comments I want to remark on two things. First, the writing. It's smooth and polished and easy to read. But not wonderful. I don't think there was one phrase which I found delicious or awe-inspiring or even just plain original.

Second, what about the title? I found one spot in the book that gave a clue to the title, but alas, I didn't mark it and don't remember what it was. So--why do you think he called it Freedom?


message 39: by Barbara (new)

Barbara | 6308 comments Ruth, I think I remember that part that referenced Freedom too. I'll look back and see if I can find it. But, for now, I had the feeling that the title was ironic. Each of the main characters was looking for freedom, primarily from the influence of their families, maybe more, but none of them really achieve it.

Michael, I thought of the use of the warbler as a bit ironic too, wonderful point that Walter would pick the one that was not really endangered. But, I also read in the interview with Franzen that he is a bird watcher as well. That might explain why those sections about the birds rang true, both factually and emotionally.

Yulia, I loved your summary of the novel. Thank you.


message 40: by Yulia (new)

Yulia | 1642 comments Thanks, Barb.

Michael, I liked your point about bird-watching being the perfect activity for Walter and other idealists who need an escape from observing fellow humans. I wonder how he'd react, though, to seeing a hawk snatch up a warbler: "Well, that's the food chain for you," or, "Look, Lalitha/Patty, I think I spotted another warbler over there."

As for the writing, which Ruth brings up, I don't remember relishing any passages after Patty's first autobiographical chapter about Eliza, but that chapter in itself was priceless to me for its characterization and dialogue. I was thrilled when reading Eliza's crazy stalker advice to Patty (perhaps I'm odd).

In general, though, I cringe whenever I see a critic or publication hail a writer as the writer of the decade or generation. I want to call out, speak for yourself! I can decide on my own whose work captures my experience during the '90s or '00s. And I'm sure just as many would disagree vehemently with what resonated with me. I suppose such articles and awards are meant for people in the future to understand the past better. "Is that how it was like when you were little, grandma?"


message 41: by Sherry, Doyenne (last edited Apr 22, 2011 01:07PM) (new)

Sherry | 7882 comments I thought Freedom was brilliant. The last parts of the book were an emotional rollercoaster for me. It was such a relief when Patty and Walter got back together.

It took her to late middle age, but Patty finally grew up. Walter was a grownup when he was about twelve, I think. What was remarkable to me was the way that the family relationships were woven together. It seem very realistic that Patty's personality was a response to her family, Joey's a response to his, and on and on. That felt very real and honest to me.

I also liked the parallels in the different generations' lives. Walter's father hated the way his father treated his mother, so he was determined to treat his wife well. The reality was something harsher though. His nature (inherited from his father) was to be a browbeater, so he browbeat Walter. Then Walter, in his own passive way, browbeat his son to be the way he thought he should be. One wonders how the tendency will play out in Joey.

I liked how Patty, after many years of feeling rejected, asked her mother why she never attended her basketball games. She never received a satisfactory answer. I wonder what it really was.
I feel as if I know these people. I want to find out what happens next. I want more of Patty's autobiography. Those were my favorite parts of the book.


message 42: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 9579 comments Do you really think Patty grew up? Well, maybe as concerns Richard. But it looked to me like she went right back to doing what she did before--be dependent on her husband and bake cookies for the neighbors.


message 43: by Sherry, Doyenne (new)

Sherry | 7882 comments She was going back to the job she loved. I don't really see anything wrong with baking cookies for neighbors if that's what you enjoy. I think she rid herself of the need to distance herself from her family and discovered a newfound peace within herself.


message 44: by Al (new)

Al (AllysonSmith) | 1101 comments I'm with Ruth. I am not sure Patty was really happy baking cookies. Unlike most of you, I did not necessarily see the ending as happy.


message 45: by Michael (last edited Apr 23, 2011 04:30AM) (new)

Michael (MichaelCanoeist) The cookies might indeed be part of Patty's personality, as Sherry says. And they also may be part of a role she was trying out for herself. When I read your post (#41), I thought, bingo! But others differed, and I can see that, too. Patty seems to swing between safety (her rushing back to Walter from her lurch toward Richard, way back in the beginning) and risk (couldn't resist it, again). Has she finally gotten the balance right? I thought yes, too, after she and Walter had gone through such a painful period (which I thought rang especially true in the telling). Maybe it is impossible for certain personalities to choose solidly?

Patty's decisions -- the big ones -- seemed a bit selfish to me. She wanted Walter's solidity and protection, told him he was everything to her; then got bored. She tried out Richard again; it didn't work for more than a weekend, she knew it never would. But she couldn't resist indulging herself. If she had really been bored in bed for all those years, I can understand; but shouldn't she have simply left and tried to find a more fulfilling relationship? (Still not sure that one guy has the magic touch, and the other, who loves her more, is an utter dullard in that regard.)

I thought Walter gave her his best, and got a pretty poor return on it. I'm not sure if this says anything about "freedom," but it says something true about human nature, unfortunately. Maybe Patty's need for safety was her reaction to freedom -- to having too much freedom? Somehow, just writing that, it feels a bit irrelevant to the immediate conflict and drama, though. So I'm not sure that "freedom" really had anything more to do with what the story was about than those chapter titles. Richard had freedom and needed it. Walter wanted connection more than freedom. Patty was mixed up between those two poles.


message 46: by Michael (new)

Michael (MichaelCanoeist) One little thing -- wondering if anyone else had this happen to him. Even toward the end of the book, I sometimes had to remind myself whether two-syllable-name Walter was the husband, or two-syllable-name Richard. That I could confuse them even for a moment, reading as I was in concentrated doses, surprised me.


message 47: by Sherry, Doyenne (last edited Apr 23, 2011 05:54AM) (new)

Sherry | 7882 comments Michael, I never confused the names, but I can see doing it. Here is my take on her Richard/Walter dilemma. Richard was the one she was attracted to first. I think there was a kind of imprinting going on there. She was attracted to that kind of boy, rough, cool. It's classic. She used Walter from the very first to be near Richard. Then the qualities in Walter that she knew jibed better with what she wanted in the long run won out. She wanted a home and family; a kind of rejection of her own home and family. She wanted to do it right this time. So she chose with her head, not her heart. Sex with someone you chose with your head may always seem boring compared to a fantasy, the unattainable (maybe) other who you've had your eye on all along.

What do you think of her "sleepwalking"? Was she just pretending or did her subconscious force the issue? She CLAIMED she was sleeping. I'm not sure I believe that.


message 48: by Michael (new)

Michael (MichaelCanoeist) Sherry wrote: "what she wanted in the long wrong ..."

An interesting typo! : )


message 49: by Sherry, Doyenne (last edited Apr 23, 2011 05:55AM) (new)

Sherry | 7882 comments Well, I shall go and change that. Interesting indeed. The older I get the worse my typing gets. My brain and my fingers sometimes get their wires crossed.


message 50: by Barbara (new)

Barbara | 6308 comments I definitely didn't think Patty was really sleepwalking. It was just a pretense to get her where she wanted to go.


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