Rothfussians discussion

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message 51: by John (last edited Apr 12, 2011 09:53PM) (new)

John (john4200) | 56 comments I don't see how Denna's song can be correct, as far as Lanre being a hero in the end. Since Kvothe knows that Haliax leads the Chandrian to kill innocent people like his own troupe, it is clear that Haliax is NOT a good or heroic person.

Well, I suppose it is possible that Skarpi's story is wrong and Lanre is not Haliax. In which case Lanre could be a hero, and Haliax an evil person. Since Denna's song mentioned Lanre but may not have mentioned Haliax, it could be that Skarpi's story got that point wrong. I don't think there was any other story that stated that Lanre became Haliax.

But I have trouble believing that Skarpi's story is wrong about that. Skarpi's story is consistent with Felurian's story and Shehyn's story, so it seems likely that Skarpi's story does not have any major innaccuracies.


message 52: by Poposaurus (new)

Poposaurus | 41 comments Now About the Chandrian:
I think they are 6 of the Shapers Or Namers who fought in the war of creation led by Iax-Encanis
and now commanded by Haliax, so they make 7, they refused Tehlu's offer as well.


Lanre is too young for being Encanis, but the chandrian existed at Encanis age.
Perhaps what all the Chandrian fear the most is that someone summons Tehlu again, that would explain why they are destroying all proofs and infos about the past.

I remember in the first book Tehlu saying he'll return if someone summons/calls him properly.
Perhaps he left those Amyr as angel-guards in charge while he sleeps or whatever.XD

I've readed all your posts and I like them all
Someone said Cinder's name could be in that mysterious lackless box or the true names of the Chandrian. It could be indeed ,something important should be in there.

My opinion:
Kvothe spoke with gods, so says the cover of the book, so maybe he'll find Tehlu's true name inside that lackless-lockless box.


message 53: by Poposaurus (last edited Apr 12, 2011 11:50PM) (new)

Poposaurus | 41 comments John wrote: "Poposaurus wrote: "
-Encanis-
He fits in the war of creation'..."

I think it is difficult to draw any facts from the Encanis story. The problem is that the Encanis story seems to be distorted by a..."


Lol John you are an expert 100% I think I'll read again both books I like your points

But Encanis was represented like a fierce beast who drinks children's blood and have baths of women tears
Why would he request a fast death for Kvothe?

-But there was one demon who eluded Tehlu. Encanis, whose face was all in shadow.
Well the shadow-thing could be an evil sign like horns,dunno..
If Encanis is Lanre then Selitos would be guilty for creating that demon previously?
And Tehlu only punishes Encanis, where is Selitos at that time ?

I suppose the War of Creation was the begining of all
right?

Then where & when fits this War of Creation
between Shapers & Namers ? If Lanre and the Chandrian were part of it , then Selitos cursed him before that?

The Ctaeh or Felurian, I don't remember who, said that Iax was previous at Lanre ,right?
Where fits Iax? Lanre is free and Iax in prison?
Iax was previous at the war of creation?


message 54: by Allen (new)

Allen Tsai | 71 comments Presentation doesn't always imply truth. I haven't read the first book in a while, but if Encanis is presented "like a fierce beast who drinks children's blood and have baths of women tears", I'm inclined to believe that this is a distortion/magnification of his attributes, as occurs with time.

So what are the Ruach? Some went with Tehlu and became angels, others with Selitos and became Amyr. Proto-humans? Did they divide into two races, human and Fae? My thinking behind this is that Felurian was alive pre-creation war (line about her sitting on the wall of a city, eating some fruit?) but now is identified as a Fae. (Or were they a group of people/class, and all of them are now either angel or Amyr.)

Popo, I believe the consensus is that the war Lanre fought in, at the end of which he was cursed, is the same war as the Creation War, which is the war between the Shapers and Namers.

Iax and Lanre are/were contemporaries. Cite Selitos' line about namers equal to him (Tehlu, Iax, Lyra).

This forum system really needs subthreads, to make replies simpler.


message 55: by Sanjiv (last edited Apr 13, 2011 09:25AM) (new)

Sanjiv | 429 comments Allen wrote: "This forum system really needs subthreads, to make replies simpler. "

well, in reality we should make new threads, and then moderators will probably take the incentive to organize them into categories if need be.

As to the difference between humans and fae, I'm reminded of the creation story, where Aleph either names everything, or finds the inherent name of things(depending on the version of the story). I believe the first Namers simply called things for what they were, but Creators then began giving names to things, changing the very essence of what they were (probably doing so in a safe laboratory that was Fae). Eventually I figure they began changing their own names as well, thus changing themselves from human to Fae. In abstract art, and even in philosophy, practitioners often try to identify the true nature of things, and explore their relationships. I'm sure Namers would do similar things, i.e. try to define shadow as a presence instead of just an absence, thus creating the shadow-stuff that we see in Fae--The whole realm was one big experiment, where people didn't just realize their forbidden desires, but also did serious academic work as well. Hence deity-like beings like Ctheah and Felurian. When Kvothe and Felurian travel to collect shade, for example, the grumbling beast they encounter there reminds me of the Id.

But as to why there are so few human namers--I figure this was imposed on them by the angels, in order to maintain order. Just a guess, really.

John wrote: "Since Kvothe knows that Haliax leads the Chandrian to kill innocent people like his own troupe, it is clear that Haliax is NOT a good or heroic person."

But the Amyr kill innocents too, right? There's still room for Rothfuss to throw of curveball if he wants to. And now that I think about it, would the Angels seek to punish the Amyr for their crimes, would the two groups be in direct opposition to each other?


message 56: by Sanjiv (new)

Sanjiv | 429 comments From John's message 49, spoken by Selitos (via Skarpi): May it last until the world ends and the Aleu fall nameless from the sky."

And even in Felurian's songs, there are words that sound similar to 'Alar.' I remember Denna asking the boys why have a weird name for something so simple, and they boys respond that the name, 'alar,' is just there to be pompous. That can't be, right? Would 'Alar' be a term for things that maintain the structure of the world, and the beings that maintain the 'order of the universe,' as it were, be the Aleu? AKA angels, or sorts?


message 57: by John (last edited Apr 13, 2011 11:57AM) (new)

John (john4200) | 56 comments Sanjiv wrote: "But the Amyr kill innocents too, right? There's still room for Rothfuss to throw of curveball if he wants to. And now that I think about it, would the Angels seek to punish the Amyr for their crimes, would the two groups be in direct opposition to each other? "

No argument from me. I have always thought that the Amyr were frightening with their "for the greater good" credo. One can justify any atrocity with such vague and flexible laws. But Kvothe has not yet consciously met an Amyr, so from Kvothe's point of view, his evidence on the evil (or good) of the Amyr is weaker than that of the Chandrian.


message 58: by John (new)

John (john4200) | 56 comments Allen wrote: "My thinking behind this is that Felurian was alive pre-creation war (line about her sitting on the wall of a city, eating some fruit?) but now is identified as a Fae. "

I think Felurian is identified as Fae now because she is a resident of Fae now. But if you believe her own stories, she was around before the creation of Fae. So Felurian is unlikely to be a native-born Fae. I suppose it is possible that Felurian changed herself (or had someone change her) to be more Fae like after the creation of the Fae realm, but I have not seen any mention of that in the books.


message 59: by John (new)

John (john4200) | 56 comments Poposaurus wrote: "JWell the shadow-thing could be an evil sign like horns,dunno..
If Encanis is Lanre then Selitos would be guilty for creating that demon previously?
And Tehlu only punishes Encanis, where is Selitos at that time ?"


Haliax / Lanre is not evil because Selitos cursed him. The cause and effect are the opposite -- Selitos cursed Haliax because Lanre / Haliax did something terrible, he betrayed his friends and allies and destroyed Myr Tariniel and six other cities.

Selitos is not in the Trapis story, as far as I can tell. That is one of the reasons that I think the Encanis story is a distorted version of history, distorted by the church and possibly unintentionally by Trapis.


message 60: by Mary, Minion the 1st, Chancellor (new)

Mary (mary_believes_in_faeries) | 139 comments Mod
You guys have deep thoughts! Deep!

Feel free to create new threads; there aren't a lot of options for goodreads forums. I can delete a post but not move it and I can arrange topics into new folders. That's about it.

I would move the whole works to a cooler site but Pat has plans for an official forum some day and I don't want to step on them.

If anyone would care to take the highlights from some of the longer discussions and make a part 2 (Chandrian *Spoilers* #2), I am not in any way opposed to that. :-)


message 61: by Poposaurus (last edited Apr 13, 2011 05:24PM) (new)

Poposaurus | 41 comments John wrote: "Poposaurus wrote: "JWell the shadow-thing could be an evil sign like horns,dunno..
If Encanis is Lanre then Selitos would be guilty for creating that demon previously?
And Tehlu only punishes Encan..."


Aha, yeah I agree , well cursing him didn't help much either..
Perhaps the ''who is who'' is not so important as I thought or even as I wanted
Perhaps that Iax in prison is that Jax-guy who wanted the moon

Then Lanre it seems is just a childish guy who lost his girlfriend and became a traitor and a killer ,and the Chandrian just a few evil dudes who follows him, like Voldermort and his death-eaters

Perhaps all those distorted mysterious and poetic stories were made up just to mess up with our minds hiding a simple truth.
Like for example the fact that some folk truly believes Kvothe is bloodless, and he has blood hasn't he?

Well dunno , If that's the case I think I liked more my ramblings for a third book, perhaps I'll write my own third book, then I'll be truly happy with the development and ending XD

Now I'll just wait for the third book ,and that will be when? 2017 oder so?..
Hmmm, in the meantime I'll go read some Edgar Allan Poe..

Who's The killer?? A demon? a Monster?
No!! It was an Ape!! WTF??
-Brilliant-


message 62: by Sanjiv (last edited Apr 14, 2011 01:03PM) (new)

Sanjiv | 429 comments Encanis: Alive today, or not? Will we see him in the next book?

We've seen people come back to life, and he's perfect to lead a demon army. Plus the chirstmassy/festival scene in NotW seems too juicy to pass up as foreshadowing.


message 63: by Poposaurus (new)

Poposaurus | 41 comments Sanjiv wrote: "Encanis: Alive today, or not? Will we see him in the next book?

We've seen people come back to life, and he's perfect to lead a demon army. Plus the chirstmassy/festival scene in NotW seems too j..."


I agree, I like Encanis I hope he plays a part in the third book.

I remember Felurian saying that in the world were some sort of people before the Humans and Fae.
Thas makes me believe the Chandrian including Encanis and the true Amyr are older than Lanre and his tales.
Iax could be a Fae who wanted to claim the moon for his realm and Lanre fought against him


message 64: by Chase (new)

Chase (KvothetheBloodless) | 3 comments If Encanis is Haliax and Skarpi's story is true also and Selitos cursed him after he had destroyed the cities why does it say that Encanis' face is in shadow before that?


message 65: by Sanjiv (last edited Apr 20, 2011 12:44PM) (new)

Sanjiv | 429 comments Oh, Encanis's face is covered in shadows? Forgot that. Clearly Haliax then? Too bad, I was looking forward to him being a different guy.

FYI, [Encanis's] instead of [Encanis']. The rule's different for proper v.s. common nouns.


message 66: by Kristina (new)

Kristina | 3 comments Is it just me, or is anyone else hung up on the fact tht Encantis Dies? Tehlu kills him.All this talk about who he is and wether or not he is Haliax seems pointless.


message 67: by Kristina (new)

Kristina | 3 comments i think Felurian is one of the angels, not sure where it says, but didn't one of them
'have a thousand suitors?


message 68: by Ian (new)

Ian | 2 comments God I love geeking out on this stuff.

Re: the Chandrian, I think it's important to recall that they are not human, and possibly never were. Felurian points out that there were never any human Amyr which would mean that the actual Amyr were of the Fae. Furthermore, the story of the moon; could it be that Lanre and Stelitos were the two representatives of the seers/knowers and the shapers?

I think one of the great themes of the books in general is the idea of how a story changes and morphs with time and teller. Part of having numerous retellings of the Chandrian and their curse is to illustrate that point.


message 69: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
Kristina wrote: "Is it just me, or is anyone else hung up on the fact tht Encantis Dies? Tehlu kills him.All this talk about who he is and wether or not he is Haliax seems pointless."

I would guess that bit was an overstretch of the truth. You know sort like how America won Vietnam...


message 70: by Eric (last edited Aug 31, 2012 06:03AM) (new)

Eric | 99 comments I’ve been reading and rereading the Chandrian chapters and had a couple of thoughts I wanted your opinions on.

First, according to the Ademic story of the Rhinta:
_____________________________________
‘Since not by strength could the enemy win, he moved like a worm in fruit. The enemy was not of the Lethani. He poisoned seven others against the empire, and they forgot the Lethani. Six of them betrayed the cities that trusted them. Six cities fell and their names are forgotten.

‘One remembered the Lethani, and did not betray a city. That city did not fall. One of them remembered the Lethani and the empire was left with hope. With one unfallen city. But even the name of that city is forgotten, buried in time.

‘But seven names are remembered. The name of the one and of the six who follow him. Seven names have been carried through the crumbling of empire, through the broken land and changing sky. Seven names are remembered through the long wandering of Ademre. Seven names have been remembered, the names of the seven traitors.’

___________________________________________

So assumedly the cities are Antus, Belen, Emlen, Murella, Murilla, Myr Tariniel, Vaeret, and Tinusa must be the city that didn’t fall making it the present day Free City of Tinue. I think that’s relatively well established with some theorists.

The story speaks of eight people (the enemy poisoned seven others). So assuming that’s true then Lanre and the leaders of the six cities that fell form the Chandrian and implies the enemy is still around. This contradicts Skarpi’s story, which suggests that the enemy was locked behind the doors of stone.

However, the two could potentially be harmonious if we assume a couple of things. First, the enemy was locked behind the doors of stone. I’m sure many have speculated, but the doors of stone could easily be the Greystones, which lead you to Fae. The only person we know of locked up in the Fae? The Cthaeh.

Now Skarpi’s story tells us that at some point after being called back from the dead, Lyra becomes sick or dies. Lanre seeks knowledge where it’s better left alone.

My question then becomes this: Why did the six leaders go into Fae to meet the Cthaeh? Did they hear about Lyra and accompany Lanre to confront The Enemy to get what they needed to save her? Did they steal a flower? Were they bitten? I just don’t know, and all of it could be wrong if the preceding assumptions are. But the Ademic story suggests they were poisoned, so that suggests a bite, a plum bomb (or something similar), or metaphorically could mean a persuasive argument.

Anyway, just food for thought. More questions than answers as usual.


message 71: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
After reading that, this are some of the thoughts I had.
The enemy poisoned seven others.
that would suggest the enemy wasnt Lanre in my opinion. There are seven chandrian including Haliax. So The Enemy would actually make eight, therefore, The Enemy is not the Chandrian...

Does that make sense at all?


I think The Ctheah is a good possibility actually. But also doesnt seem to be who Felurian thinks is locked up from what I read.


Outside of that - Maybe Lyra WAS the poisoner? She obviously was very powerful. I dont know...

I aint got shit.


message 72: by Eric (new)

Eric | 99 comments Gather round and listen well,
For I've a tale of tragedy to tell.
I sing of subtle shadow spread
Across a land, and of the man
Who turned his hand toward a purpose few could bear.
Fair Lanre: stripped of wife, of life, of pride
Still never from his purpose swayed
Who fought the tide, and fell, and was betrayed.


Some of the verbiage in this stuck out at me the last time I read it.

'Fought the tide' is a traditional, fantastic saying we've heard dozens of times in other stories. For that reason, most of us gloss over it as poetic.

But what if the tide he fought was literal? The moon was stolen, which would literally change tidal forces on Earth. What if stealing the moon changed the oceans, or land so that parts of it were covered up or uncovered? Would there be a purpose to it?

At any rate, I thought it was interesting. I really dig the idea that Lyra was the poisoner.


message 73: by Ancapaillmor (new)

Ancapaillmor | 76 comments Amber wrote: "After reading that, this are some of the thoughts I had.
The enemy poisoned seven others.
that would suggest the enemy wasnt Lanre in my opinion.


Bast said lanre visited the chtaeh and we know what a git the chtaeh is. So he poisoned lanre's mind, maybe told something about lyra or some other event to happen, not sure did he visit before or after lyra's death. We suspect cinder visits the chtaeh. Bast mentioned iax visited before stealing the moon.

As for haliax, iax being the same theory, don't think so, lanre fought in the creation wars for good(or so we believe), iax caused them, also bast has mentioned that lanre and iax visited the chtaeh at different times. Gave no indication of them being the same.


message 74: by Ancapaillmor (last edited Sep 05, 2012 02:44AM) (new)

Ancapaillmor | 76 comments Amber wrote: "Maybe Lyra WAS the poisoner?"

Here's an absolute crazy and off the wall thought but can be linked. When mentioning the chtaeh, kvothe and bast tell of the story of the boy who cured the princess(the chtaeh tree has flowers that cure), fell in love but she was bound by her royalty to a prince. She ends up killing him and a war starts. Kvothes seemed to muse over the story later. Significant? Iax\jax, lyra\moon, lanre, jax is a shaper(commoner?), lyra's a namer. I'm stuck on the killing the prince though.


message 75: by Chris, Master Artificer (new)

Chris (chris300) | 386 comments Mod
Kristina wrote: "Is it just me, or is anyone else hung up on the fact tht Encantis Dies? Tehlu kills him.All this talk about who he is and wether or not he is Haliax seems pointless."

No. That was just religions silly faerie tale. Skarpi stated that Tehlu was one of the invisible Amyr. So no, it's not pointless.


message 76: by Eric (last edited Oct 23, 2012 09:38AM) (new)

Eric | 99 comments Chris wrote: "Kristina wrote: "Is it just me, or is anyone else hung up on the fact tht Encantis Dies? Tehlu kills him.All this talk about who he is and wether or not he is Haliax seems pointless."

No. That was..."


I think you misunderstood (I did too at first). Selitos formed the Amyr after refusing Aleph's charge. Tehlu accepted whatever task Aleph had appointed him and he became something else (singers, watchers, whatever you call them).

Pretty well clarified here:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...


message 77: by Chris, Master Artificer (new)

Chris (chris300) | 386 comments Mod
Oh yeah, reread it, was a bit ambiguous until I concentrated :P

Even so, the point stands, Tehlu isn't god, he's just one of the invisible folk with wings.


message 78: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
Well, if you want to get technical, Tehlu is a god, since the majority of Smallfolk in the series worship him.

:P

Tehlu is a lot like Jesus in our world. At least thats how I imagine the Tehlin Indoctrination. LOL


message 79: by Chris, Master Artificer (new)

Chris (chris300) | 386 comments Mod
HA! Yes, I agree, I think he's like Jesus too. But then, getting technical again, Jesus isn't god ;)


message 80: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
Depends on your sect I do believe.

Some people consider the Holy Trinity to be one entity, thus making Jesus god.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Hmm, I wonder if something like that could apply to the series. Weird thing I never considered.


message 81: by Allen (new)

Allen Tsai | 71 comments Amber wrote: "Depends on your sect I do believe.

Some people consider the Holy Trinity to be one entity, thus making Jesus god.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Hmm, I wonder if something like that could apply to..."


I would like to point out that the Holy Ghost is only decided to be part of the Trinity/God via co-location. We should probably save theological discussion/debate for another place.


message 82: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
Well - If you dislike the discussion, then dont participate. I'm not religious, I'm just noting the comparison.

And the Holy Spirit or Ghost is not dependant on colocation to be a part of the Holy Trinity. Maybe in some religions, but not in the christian bible. (Which I have actually bothered to read)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit

Not to mention this context isnt completely useless considering the Hebrew word for the Holy Spirit is

RUACH.


message 83: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
Oh and not to mention the significance of threes (similar to trinity) throughout the entire novel.


message 84: by Ions (new)

Ions | 210 comments note to self, take the holy ghost out to dinner! it'll pay the bill.

:-)


message 85: by Allen (last edited Nov 02, 2012 09:39AM) (new)

Allen Tsai | 71 comments Amber wrote: "Well - If you dislike the discussion, then dont participate. I'm not religious, I'm just noting the comparison.

And the Holy Spirit or Ghost is not dependant on colocation to be a part of the Hol..."


I have also bothered to read the Christian bible, and I assert to you that while Christ equates himself to God, the Spirit does not. The wikipedia article does nothing to shed light on this. OT talks about "The Spirit of the Lord" but NT doesn't state this to be the "Holy Spirit." Maybe implied.

Also, Ruach is only the name of the wind. <-- See what I did there? ruach hakodesh is the name of the holy spirit.


message 86: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

they're one but seperate. I think this article offers a little more information about how that works.

I think we could probably argue this back and forth all day. I'm pretty sure people who actually are religious do...

But needless to say, I dont think colocation has anything to do with it. They're all equally the same and coexist together equally whether they're in the same place or not they're still the trinity.



Which to bring this back around to book speak...(My religion LOL) Could there be a sort of trinity in the novels? And could this be something you applied to a chandrian?

Is there three different sides to Haliax? We've definitly seen two.


message 87: by Allen (new)

Allen Tsai | 71 comments Amber wrote: "Is there three different sides to Haliax? We've definitly seen two. "

Probably brought up already:
Hal is the latin root for breathe. So if you convert that to breath, something like, 'Breath/exhalation/something of Iax' -- Poisoned by Iax, or even possessed? Objective is to free Iax? I don't know that that is a third nature.


message 88: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
Thats definitely an interesting concept.

I've tried finding information the etymology of Iax, but have come up empty handed everytime.

I've read also that some etymology (I think Finnish or hungarian) Hal can mean "to die" which I always thought interesting too, but could never make into any sort of theory.


message 89: by Chris, Master Artificer (new)

Chris (chris300) | 386 comments Mod
Lanre - the legend
Iax - the reality
Alaxel - the cursed

Perhaps... makes a kind of trinity of counterparts.


message 90: by Rachel (new)

Rachel (RachelSessum) | 113 comments I don't think so. Iax was called out by Skarpi as a different person who had a lot of power. Skarpi also said that Lanre didn't have power, which was why it was such a huge surprise to Selitos when he showed up and was suddenly awash in it. Lanre was the one that chose the name Haliax, so I do wonder what the significance is of it. It has been hypothesized that Lanre may have somehow absorbed Iax, but they were still originally two separate characters. I think I agree with Allen on this one. Doesn't seem like a it is really a third nature.


message 91: by Ben (last edited May 09, 2013 10:48AM) (new)

Ben Jarvis | 1 comments So here's my thoughts, one. Kvothe is protected by the Amyr. They know hes a Lockless and he could open the doors of stone. Two, he didnt call down the lightning in WMF when hes fighting the bandits that was an Amyr. Three Haliax doesnt know who Kovthe is he told Cinder to send him into the painless sleep. But he had to leave because something was coming...(The Amyr?) My guess is that the Amyr know what Kvothe can and will do. Open the doors to let out Iax.


message 92: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
Kvothe is protected by the Amyr.

Not that you are wrong, I just like to think Kvothe is a free agent out there in the world and niether Amyr nor Chandrian have been keeping tabs on him. The more to leave them unsuspecting when he finally finds and attacks whatever side. If not that, I like to imagine it's actually Aleph (and his angels) if anyone is throwing in weight to keep tabs on and protect him.

They know hes a Lockless and he could open the doors of stone.

My only dilemma with this part of the theory is, how would they know? I like to think the Chandrian ended up finding Kvothe's troupe simply because they wanted to talk to Laurian, but I've run into the same dilemma here. How would anyone know how to locate them and then know they were actually them. *sigh* Maybe you have thought this out a little better, so figured I'd ask.


Two, he didnt call down the lightning in WMF when hes fighting the bandits that was an Amyr.

I've only recently started seeing this sort of theory crop up, and I sorta like it. The one I read about Martin invoking the name of Tehlu thus being protected was probably the best on though. Interesting Idea, and enjoyable. I'd like it if Kvothe was completely off base, it greatly amuses me.

Reminds me of this D&D campaign I played once where one of the characters was a super evil necromancer but because the rest of the party only ever saw him do super evil shit without audio, (we all had orbs of dragonkind to start with, if you are into that sort of thing) took it completely out of context and made him the party leader for always having our backs and being a generally awesome guy. *facepalm*
He also fed us human flesh for which he rolled a natural 20...*sigh* LOL

Anywho....

Three Haliax doesnt know who Kovthe is
Can't agree or disagree here. I'm torn. On one side I agree, because it makes sense. On the other side, I've seen a lot people think that Haliax is involved with the Tehlin Religion and possibly Skarpi because of one scene in Tarbean where Kvothe see's a robed figure with a shadowed face even when he passes by a lit torch. Both are compelling!

I do like your last idea though that the Amyr are the ones to let Iax out. Might fit in nicely with Selitos desire to seak retribution. Which is the main point of the original Amyr.


message 93: by Soap! (last edited May 10, 2013 04:21AM) (new)

Soap! | 46 comments The Cthaeh is not a tree. The Cthaet is trapped in a tree. Or something like that. I remember that Bast says: He can't out of the tree. Something like this, my book is in another language.

So, the tree is in Fae, but before Fae didn't exists so... the Cthaeh was free before the creation of Fae? It's only speculation but it's fit... The Enemy poissoned Lanre. So the enemy can easily be the Cthaeh before being a tree (or be trapped in one). Sorry if I wrote something bad.


message 94: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
I agree Soap.

I think the Ctheah was either free before Fae was seperated from the Mortal world, or didn't exist at all. There seems to always be consequences to magic, and it wouldn't surprise me if Ctheah was a consequence of creating Fae or creating the barrier between worlds. (This is pure speculation)
The first person I recall there being a record of it speaking with is Lanre and this is decidedly after the Battle of Drossen Tor. Which I was under the impression was the greatest and most definitive battle of the Creation War, until Lanre's betrayal.


Though I have questioned in the story of Jax by Hespe, whether the person Jax finds on the mountain alone was Ctheah. I've read many people believe it was Teccam, but it's interesting how the information is given in a way the spurs Jax to his ultimate downfall. That, in my opinion of course, screams more Ctheah than Teccam, but I haven't put a lot of effort into highlighting every passage with a Teccam reference...so could be off base.


message 95: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
OH did we mix threads just now?

I thought I was posting in the Collection of Theories thread.

Sorry!


message 96: by Soap! (last edited May 10, 2013 01:35PM) (new)

Soap! | 46 comments Sorry too. I thought that my theory could help in the speculations about the Chandrian.

My apologizes if this shouldn't be here.

And well, I think that Encanis is Haliax, distorted by the church because they can't really recognize that Haliax exists. They know it, or knew it one time. But they can't say it to his followers, because that would mean they're recognizing the existence of Chandrian. And they'll never do it. Maybe they fear of them (I think is well written). Or maybe the actual church don't know about the Chandrian, but I doubt it...


message 97: by Amber, Master Sympathist (new)

Amber (IvoryDoom) | 1471 comments Mod
It's okay if you meant to post it here, it's funny actually if you did because we were just discussing about the Ctheah and it's tree in another thread! LOL.

Hows that for coincidence!

I agree there is a lot of similarities between Haliax and Encanis.
There is also a lot of similarities between the story of Myr Tarinial and the story of Menda and Encanis.

I've always thought the Tehlin Religion was just offering a somewhat warped version of historical events or working as a tool for someone (presumedly an immortal someone) to distort history and strengthen the predjudice of mortals against fae.


message 98: by Karen (new)

Karen | 53 comments Sorry in advance if this has been brought up before, but something in a message above made me think that somehow Lanre took Lyra's powers from her. Selitos hears that Lyra is *sick or dying* then Lanre is betrayed (by the Cthaeh??) and takes her powers, maybe? After Lyra is dead, Selitos is surprised at Lanre's power, because only Lyra, Iax, and Tehlu were more powerful than him.

I don't even know if it's possible to take someone's powers, or what the significance of it is, but it's something that seems to make sense to me. Remember, even Lanre says something about being the reason she died, even though he was betrayed.


message 99: by thistlepong, Master Namer (new)

thistlepong | 340 comments Mod
“My wife is dead. Deceit and treachery brought me to it, but her death is on my hands.”

There are a couple out there theories along those lines:

One is basically that in pulling Lanre back from death at Drossen Tor, Lyra sort of gave her lifeforce to him, a bit like Bast healing Kvothe's mouth.

The other is weirder. Lyra is Haliax. She might have been powerful enough to fool Selitos. She might have messed with dark forces better left alone trying to bring Lanre back.


message 100: by Manda (new)

Manda | 115 comments I've never heard that last theory. I like it!


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